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WeeJean
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the correct place
I'm going back a bit in time now, my grandparents came from Italy to London about 1884 and then came to Glasgow about 1892. My dad was brought up in Glasgow. I think, but I'm not sure, they lived in the Gorbals at that time. (Hutcheston area?) My grandfather was an ice cream vendour/confectioner but that's all the information I know from his death certificate. Does anyone know if there are any records relating to the 'traders' from that time. I would dearly like to know about life at that time in Glasgow.

Wee Jean
Anne1
welcome wee jean to the boards Im not much help but am sure someone on here will be able to point you in the right direction
Heather
Jean, I think your best bet is to try the Mitchell Library. Click on 'Subject Search ' then click on 'Italians ', that takes you into ice cream vendors.

www.mitchelllibrary.org/
stuarty
wee jean you can go into glasgow districts in this site from one end of glasgow to the other and beyond sometimes happy hunting
WeeJean
Thank you Anne1, Heather and Stuarty for your quick response I'm off to search the Mitchell library site right now. smile.gif Unfortunately I live the other side of Scotland - and I know Glasgow is only 2 hours away but its difficult for me to travel. Thank goodness for the computer, I only wish IT wid dae whit it wis telt rolleyes.gif
Wee Jean
jaybee
Wee Jean, there were many Italian Ice Cream Cafes in that area. One I do remember was run by a lovely pair of sisters. The husband Joe died young and the sisters kept the place going. The cafe was next to the United Free Church on Crown Street, almost at the corner of Kidston Street. That was in the Hutchesontown area. Crown St. was split, one side being the Gorbals and the other Hutchesontown (sp?).
WeeJean
Thank you for that information jaybee. I dont think they are related in any way. My grandfather's name was Giovanni Defilippis and the other person that could have worked with him was Felice Siravo but this was in 1892-1895. (Felice Siravo could still have been there in the early 1900's. Their home address at that time was South Wellington Street, I have found out the name of that street was changed to Lawmoor Street. But I believe that this is the same area as you mentioned. I really dont know if they had a shop or if they just went door to door with an icecream cart but the fact that confectioner was mentioned as well as icecream vendour made me feel it was more likely to be a shop. How I wish there had been some photographs but sadly I dont have any.
Thanks again
Wee Jean
jaybee
Wee Jean, I was born on Lawmoor Street and yes, it is the same district. I am sure Joe was not his name but an anglified version of his Italian name. Could have been a son or grandson of Giovanni. They were on Crown Street during 40s and 50s, perhaps even the 60s. Good luck with your search. Jaybee
WeeJean
Thanks for the reply Jaybee
I have traced all my dad's brothers and half sisters but they were not in the icecream/confectioner trade. My dad would have lived in Lawmoor Street around 1910. The other address mentioned was Rose Street, this is where my grandmother died 1913. so I'm really going back a bit in time here. When I was young(about 1948) I remember visiting a cousin who lived in Rose Street. It was a tenament building and they all shared a drying green and I do remember their house was on the ground floor. When I think about it, I'm sure I should have a photograph taken when I was there. Must go and have a look through the old photographs.
You never know maybe our relations knew one another.
Gets more and more interesting doesn't it!
Wee Jean
ps bye the the family name was eventually changed to D'Phillips.
Heather
Jean, there were a few Italians lived around Rose Street in the Garnethill area. I went to school with a few. But do remember any D'Philips.
Paul Kelly
Hi Jean.

Crown Street, Hutchesontown, Gorbals still exists. There used to be a street to the immediate east of Crown Street called Rose Street.
Rose Street ran parallel to Crown Street. In fact, from the River Clyde down to Cumberland Street, the street was known as Rose Street. South of Cumberland Street, the street was known as Florence Street. At some point in the mid 20th century the whole of Rose Street/Florence Street became known as Florence Street. Florence Street was the birth place of boxer Benny Lynch.

Lawmoor Street used to be known as South Wellington Street and was a few streets to the east of Rose Street/Florence Street. Starting from the west, the main streets of Hutchesontown, Gorbals were Hospital Street, Thistle Street, Crown Street, Rose Street/Florence Street, South Shamrock Street/Camden Street, Commercial Road/Naburn Street, South Wellington Street, Mathieson Street, Waddell Street/Sandyfaulds Street, South York Street (now called Moffat Street) and McNeil Street.


If you zoom in on sheet VI.15.6 and the neighbouring sheets of the map below you will see these streets in 1894.

http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/glasgow_2.html

See posts #53, #58 and #59 of the topic 'Common Irish Surnames In Scotland' in the Family History forum for further discussion of the Gorbals.

Paul
Heather
I was not aware there was a Rose Street in the Gorbals. The Rose Street I referred to is off Cambridge Street in the Garnethill area.


My previous post should have said. I don't remember any D'Phillips at school.
WeeJean
Heather, When I visited Rose Street back in the 1948 (Approx.) My cousin who lived there was married to a McKnight right now I cant find the number of the house they lived in,as I said I do know they lived on the bottom floor. Does McKnight ring any bells? Was Rose Street near the Gorbals? maybe I just presumed these addresses I had were all int the Gorbals area. I see in Paul's post the Rose Street became Florence Street are we still talking about the same Rose Street Heather or is there another one?
Wee Jean


Paul,
Many thanks for the information and that link, it was very helpful and interesting
Wee Jean
Heather
Jean I don't recognise the name. I was still at school when we moved away from the Cowcaddens.

stratson
Rose street was off Sauchiehall st. Think St Aloysius is there. Used to e a picture house in Rose st, called the Cosmo, they showed french and Italian movies.
Many years ago the bottom part of Florence St. in the Gorbals was Rose ST. Even before my time. ohmy.gif
Jean, what was you g/father's name, may be able to help you as have italian friends in Govanhill whose g/parents came to Glasgow at that time too.. smile.gif
WeeJean
Thanks for the reply Heather and the map. Its all becoming a bit clearer now. If only my father had talked a bit more about his father but I know he was young when his father died.
Great if we could just look into a crystal ball and get all the answers cool.gif

Wee Jean
WeeJean
Hi Stratson
Many thanks for that offer
My grandfather was Giovanni Batistta Defilippis my grandmothers name was Francesca (maiden name Bastianielli) my grandfather was born in 1853 in Sant'Elia Fiumerapido Frosinone Italy, they came to London about 1883/85 and they moved to Glasgow about 1891-92 . My grandfather died in 1895 in Glasgow on his death certifcate his Christian name was filled in as 'George Defilippis' later the name was changed to De'Phillips.
As far as I know a 'Felice Siravo' and my grandfather worked together (not sure about this though) My grandparents had 6 sons, one of them died in 1892 in Glasgow after my grandfather died my Grandmother lived with Felice Siravo and they had 2 daughters.
I do appreciate your help, stories do get passed down and who knows what can happen.
Thanks ever so much
Wee Jean
wee mags
the name John in Italian is Giovanni, and Joseph is Guiseppe. I hope this helps
I dont know if I spelled it right dry.gif
WeeJean
Wee mags
That 's what confused me on my grandfathers death certificate because I knew the translation for Giovanni was John but they have him down as George perhaps the person giving the information didnt speak very good English and whoever was writing it down thought they had said George??

Thank you for being helpful
Wee Jean
stratson
Hello Jean,
Will see the italian family I know during this week, am doing a print out of info. you have given me and see what we can find. Will p.m. you with any info. In the interim , you never know who else is reading your post. All the Best. biggrin.gif
WeeJean
Thank you so much for your help Stratson its very much appreciated
Wee Jean
wee mags
the name changes happened a lot ,it was as they told whoever passed them into the country ,over here in America lots of imigrants got their names changed because they were not understood,and did you know why Italians here in the States were called wops? it was short for 'without papers ',so now you know why names were changed no matter what country they came from if the person did not understand them ,they just gave them the name it sound like wink.gif
WeeJean
I didnt know that about 'wops'. I know since I started researching the family history I have found at least 7 different spellings for my grandmother's maiden name and her Christian name too and the same goes for my grandfather's name. I had difficulty finding my father's birth certificate it was as though he had never exsisted until just by luck I discovered his surname had been registered as Battista instead of DeFilippis (Battista being my grandfathers middle name :rolleyes) but it must have been difficult for the people doing the registration too. Takes all kinds to make a world and it makes life a bit more interesting too. wink.gif
Many thanks for your input Wee Mags
WeeJean
Sratson
I forgot to say I was told that another family (Demarcos) used to visit my grandparents and my uncles in Glasgow. They would bring pasta etc as gifts to the family It seems this family (Demarcos) had a big car and they were well dressed- white spats etc. but I have no idea if they came from Glasgow or south of the border, or if they had known my Gparents before they came here.
Wee Jean
jock
On TV just watched the end of the Indianapolis 500 mile car race. A major annual event here in the U.S. It was won by a scotsman called Dario Franchitti. In his interview he sounded like he came from Glasgow but his name sounds like there may be an italian immigrant in his background. His wife is the movie star Ashley Judd who was there to congratulate him.
jock
By the way he won $1.5million.
wee mags
Jock I to have an Italian last name my [married name ] and everyone who has just met me will say you dont have an Italian accent how come ,well says wee mags thats easy Iam not Italian !!!!!!!
as a matter of fact as I was going to get set to deliver my Daughter
my Dr who met me at the hospital door ,said to Mike go prk the car and we will meet you up stairs meanwhile he says Margaret ,would you please hold this book for me as I whell you ,well I got a fit of laughing and and he said whats wrong? I said its like that colum in the Reders Digest ,you know ,the one where they say only in America well here Iam a scottish woman on the way to the delivery room being pushed by her dr who asked her to hold a book on Judisim ,oh by the way Dr ama catholic .he said Margaret no wonder I love you ,you make me smile biggrin.gif
jock
Mags I had somewhat similar event. When I was about 14 I had my tonsils removed at a hospital in Glasgow. Unfortunately, and unknown at the time, they also accidentally snipped an important blood vessel in my throat. I was sent home and much later that night had to be returned to the hospital by ambulance. The young "intern" on duty at that late hour had work on me in a darkened ward while using a flashlight and reading instructionss from his open medical book! I remained there several days because of blood loss. Just to stay on topic I think one of the nurses may have been Italian!! laugh.gif wink.gif
WeeJean
I've just found out today that the shop that my grandfather and his friend had, could have been on Rutherglen Road (sounded like that not sure about the spelling) it was a Fish and Chip shop and they sold ice cream,sweets etc too. Iwas also told there was another shop at Cumberland Road but they were not sure if that was theirs or not.
Anyone out their remember their parents or relatives talking about a chip shop in that area?
Thanks for reading this
Wee Jean
Paul Kelly
Hi Jean.

I think you mean Cumberland Street. The street you are referring to as Rutherglen Road is now known as Old Rutherglen Road. You can see Cumberland Street and Old Rutherglen Road on a current Glasgow street map.

Regards,

Paul
WeeJean
Paul yes it was Cumberland Road.
I was hoping that someone somewhere might have had some old photographs of the shops in that area taken around 1892-1903. Sratson was telling me that there were quite a number of fish/chip shops in that area but the area has be redeveloped and the shops are long gone.
Thanks for replying Paul
Wee Jean
WeeJean
Just cant believe how quickly time passes. Just had an email today to remind me its a year ago since I posted a request for help in trying to find out some information about my grandfather.
A year on and I still havent found out any other information about where he sold icecream or where the shop was.
A friend did find out where my father's youngest brother was buried in Glasgow but we still searching to try to find which cemetry my grandfather and my grandmother were buried. If and when I do find any information about my request I will certainly post it to keep you updated.
Wee Jean
RonD
We hud two ice cream trucks in Bishopbriggs, one was called Tony's and the other was called Ted's (Tedesco) we preferred Tony's. It was funny the dug wid sit up when Tony's van rang its bell but it widnae bother when Ted rang his.!
LAC
Hi Wee Jean - don't know if you're still interested in this subject but I just picked up the site when doing some research. My grandfather had an ice-cream shop/cafe on Crown Street near Cumberland Street (from memory, just along from the Hutcheson Boys' Grammar School. The cafe may at some point been called the Rainbow. My grandfather's name was Sebastian Pacini but the locals called him Ricky (I think his middle name may have been Ricardo).

If anyone else has any information/memories about this I'd love to hear!
stratson
Used to go into the aforementioned cafe in Crown Street with my pal for a cuppa when we were out pushing our babies in their prams, that would be onwards from 1954. smile.gif
LAC
Oh my - memories; you may remember my mum then - Helen (Nell) Cairney. She used to serve in the shop up until about 1955 - and I used to pretty much have the freedom of the shop (I would have been a wee blond 4year old in 1954!).
WeeJean
Sorry I've taken so long to reply but I am still looking for information sad.gif but I'm going back to 1895- to the very early 1900's and as far as I know they sold Fish/chips as well as ice-cream.
It seems it must have been in the blood because I married into an Italian family, yes before you ask they sold ice-cream and fish/chips biggrin.gif
But it was so nice to read that Stratson remembered your grandfather's shop.
Good luck for future finds and thanks for posting me the message.
Wee Jean
WeeJean
Hi Its me again
Just to say still havent found that shop. But a cousin recently told her son that she remembered standing in the doorway of the shop and that she had helped out in the shop too, but that's all she could remember. Sadly she has just died recently.
So it seems there definatlely was a shop but it also seems I'm not meant to find it.
Earlier on I mentioned the family had changed the name to 'De Phillips' from recent research it seems they may have just used the name Phillips without the De in front of it. Dont know if this would make any difference to finding any information.
But thanks for all the information everyone had given.
Wee Jean
xx
angel
QUOTE (WeeJean @ 27th May 2007, 03:51pm) *
Sratson
I forgot to say I was told that another family (Demarcos) used to visit my grandparents and my uncles in Glasgow. They would bring pasta etc as gifts to the family It seems this family (Demarcos) had a big car and they were well dressed- white spats etc. but I have no idea if they came from Glasgow or south of the border, or if they had known my Gparents before they came here.
Wee Jean
..............

Hi Jean I just thought I,d throw this in........ there was for years and years a Demarco
ice-cream shop just past the F n Fs Ballroom in Partick . smile.gif
angel
Sorry Jean I made a mistake, that one was called the criterion,
Demarcos I believe was further along the dumbarton Rd, but still
Partick. Maybe Merkland St. ohmy.gif
WeeJean
Thanks Angel
I'll check that out with my cousin who is also helping me trying to solve this mystery.
I'll post any outcome of the search.
Thanks again, it could be just one such wee remark that could open Pandora's box
Wee Jean smile.gif
charles kelly
my grandfather came from italy but i think he was born on the boat coming here he was a riviter in yarrows ,i also worked with nicky demarco on his icecream vans in drumchapel.my grand father name was cascarina
klingon
QUOTE (charles kelly @ 9th Oct 2009, 09:00pm) *
my grandfather came from italy but i think he was born on the boat coming here he was a riviter in yarrows ,i also worked with nicky demarco on his icecream vans in drumchapel.my grand father name was cascarina

Nicky DiMarco used to have a Garage just along from the cafe in Partick and did a lot of body repair work for all the hirecar places at the airport,this would be in 1974-I seem to remember everyone in the garage drinking Lemsips instead of tea-healthy lot!
WeeJean
Hi everyone who has answered my post.
Just thought you may be interested in what's been found.
It has taken a while but another Jean who is a very good friend and is a relation has been doing a lot of research to try to find out if / where my grandparents had a shop in Glasgow.
Well I feel like putting the flags out to say thank you to 'Jean' because after many months researching records etc she has finally found that my grandparents did indeed have an ice-cream/confectioners shop which was at 215 South Wellington Street.(This was about 1895/1896) There was the front shop where they sold the ice-cream etc and it seems they may have lived in the room at the back of the shop. My grandfather went round the streets selling the ice-cream.
What we cant find is a photograph so if anyone out there has an old photograph of that address we would be ever so grateful.
Thanking all who have contributed to my original post.
Wee Jean



South Portland
I'm a McKnight, and I had family members in many of the streets mentioned in this thread. Do you have more information on your McKnights?
Yogihughes
My wife is nee Ferla and doing the family tree I've found out that the Ferlas are/were involved with the Bonicis, the Torricellis and the Sassarinis. When Virginia went to America in 1914 she left a brother Frank at 329 Cumberland St.
misspandalebear
Hi Wee Jean,

I have not long started researching my family history and think you might be able to help me, or perhaps disprove my hunch, either way would be helpful.
I had found a family on the 1901 census whilst looking for my great grandfather Anthony Phillips. The only confirmed information I have is his name on my grandmothers birth certificate where he is registered to be living in Glasgow, Rose Street, South. (Nov. 1910)
After hunting high and low, the only feasible Anthony Phillips is the Anthony De Phillips in the 1901 Census.... I am sure by the other names in the household that this would be your relative.
(Francesga, Francis, Christopher, Anthony, Michael and Michael Angela are all listed)

My Anthony is listed as father on my grandmothers birth certificate as a fish curer.
His daughter named Barbara Phillips and her mother, Barbara Thom (wife of William Rosenthall)

I would be very greatful if you were able to either confirm or disprove this as I am unable to pursue this line any further at the moment.
But perhaps, also, I may be another distant relative of yourself... which would be a very lucky find indeed.

Thank you for your time
Amanda smile.gif
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