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maggie hen
My maiden name is O'neill,Irish or what.xxx
Guest Maggie *
Hi, what about FOY aka FEY, FOYE
Think they were from Co Down, NI
Also: Costello arrived Govan from NI not sure where YET
Paul Kelly
Hi Maggie.

The Costello surname originates in Mayo/Galway in the west of Ireland, though it is likely that a few of them migrated to the north of Ireland (Ulster) over the centuries. The Foy (O'Fiaich pronouced O'Foy) surname originates in south Ulster (Armagh, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Cavan). Foy is sometimes spelt Fee and should not be confused with the Scottish Planter surname of McFee/McAfee (See Post #116).

Another south Ulster surname that has recently been brought to my attention is Farmer (from Monaghan/Fermanagh).


Paul
Paul Kelly
I briefly mentioned the McAuley surname in post #24 of the topic "Are the Scots Really Irish?' when discussing Galloglass families. McAuley/McAulay is a very interesting surname. It can be a Scottish or an Irish surname. In fact there are 4 unrelated McAuley families, 2 Irish and 2 Scottish.

There is an Irish Gaelic McAuley family originating in west Ulster (Fermanagh/Donegal) and another originating in the Irish Midlands (Westmeath/Offaly). These 2 native Irish McAuley families often spell their surname as McCauley (and sometimes even McGawley).

In Scotland, there is a MacAulay family originating in the Isle of Lewis in the Western Isles (Outer Hebrides) and they are said to be of Viking (Norse) origin. There is another Scottish McAulay family originating in the Rosneath peninsula of West Dunbartonshire and the eastern part of the Cowal peninsula in east Argyll. This family is generally regarded to be of Dalriadic origins. The Rosneath peninsula has Loch Long to its west and Gareloch to its east. Loch Long was traditionally the border between Argyll and Dunbartonshire, though these days parts of west Dumbartonshire - including the Rosneath peninsula - are considered to be in Argyll. The chief of this McAulay family was based at Ardincaple which is just to the west of the village of Roseneath. In the early 16th century many of the Ardincaple (Rosneath and east Cowal) McAuleys settled in northeast Ulster (Antrim) as Galloglasses before the late 16th century Scottish Reformation. Furthermore, in the 17th century many more of the the Ardincaple McAuleys came to east Ulster (Antrim and Down) as Scottish Protestant Planters.

The highest concentation of McAuleys in the world is said to be in County Antrim. Around a half of the Antrim McAuleys are Catholic (descended mainly from early 16th century Scottish Catholic Galloglasses, though a few are probably descended from native Irish west Ulster McAuleys.) The other half are Protestants descended from 17th century Scottish Planters from west Dunbartonshire and east Argyll.

Some people say that a few of the McCauleys in West Ulster are of Galloglass origins. It seems likely that a few of the Antrim Galloglass McAuleys migrated the short distance westwards to Derry and Donegal over the years.

I think it is fair to say that most people with the surname McAuley are of Scottish origins, including many of the McAuleys found in Ireland. However, there is no evidence that any of the McAuleys in Ireland are descended from the MacAulays of Lewis. The Scottish Galloglasses who settled in Ireland in the 14th, 15th and early 16th centuries came from the southwest Highlands of Scotland (mainland Argyll and Kintyre and the surrounding southern Inner Hebrides). They were NOT from the Western Isles (Outer Hebrides and northern Inner Hebrides) of the northwest Highlands of Scotland as is often imagined.

As I have said in the topic 'Are the Scots Really Irish?', there is no evidence of any Gallowglasses coming from the area to the north of Lorn/Lorne (Oban Benderloch and Mull) in northern Argyll.

(For an updated discussion of the McAuley Galloglasses, whose origins I now believe are the Isle of Islay, see post #51 of the topic 'Are The Scots Really Irish?'.)
Paul Kelly
In my post yesterday about the McAuley surname, I stated that the McCauley family of west Ulster (Fermanagh/Donegal) is a native Gaelic Irish family. However, I also said that some of the Donegal McCauleys are supposed be of Scottish Galloglass descent. I said it is likely that a few of the Antrim Galloglass McAuleys had migrated into Donegal.

However, there is a possible alternative explanation for the Galloglass origins of some of the Donegal McCauleys. In the 15th and 16th centuries, many Catholic MacColla Gallowglasses from the southern Inner Hebridean islands of Colonsay and Islay settled in Donegal. The MacColla surname in Donegal is usually given in the Anglicised form of Coll. Coll is now a common surname in Donegal. However, it is possible that some of the MacColla Galloglasses in Donegal had their surnames Anglicised as McCauley. It is just a theory but MacColla and McCauley are very similar sounding surnames and the McCauley surname already existed in Donegal.

The Coll surname of Donegal should not be confused with the McCall surname which is commonly found in south and east Ulster. The McCall family of south Ulster (Monaghan/Cavan) is a native Gaelic Irish family and the surname is often spelt McCaul. Many of the McCalls in east Ulster (Antrim/Down) are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McCall AND McColl Planters from Galloway/Dumfries/Ayrshire AND Argyll respectively, while the others are related to the native Catholic Irish McCalls/McCauls of south Ulster.
mcaulaymunn
Very interesting.
I will have to read all the posts properly, as I have just scanned though them.

My McAulays were from Kilmaronock, near Bonhill.

Slater, sometimes spelt Sclater from Paisley.1700's.

Munn from Renfrew, then Dunbartonshire.

Confusing I have McColl, McCuill, McCouill, so many different spellings in my family.

I have gone back to the early 1700's and all sides were born in Scotland,

I am trying to find if any of them were from Ireland, Vikings, or ?

Can't wait to read all you post.

wink.gif
jo thompson
My great grandmother was born in Glasgow in 1943 and her name was Macaren.Is this an Irish name. I cannot find any reference to this name and am wondering where it originates. My mother always said i was from Irish Scottish stock
Paul Kelly
Hi Jo.

I have never heard of the surname Macaren but it sounds suspiciously like the Scottish surname McLaren. Did you mean to say your great grandmother was born in Glasgow in 1843?

The term 'Scots-Irish' or 'Scotch-Irish' or 'Ulster-Scots' refers to Protestants from the north of Ireland who are largely descendants of 17th century Scottish Planters. Many Scots-Irish emigrated from Ulster to the United States (and elsewhere) in the 18th and early 19th centuries. The term 'Scotch-Irish' was first used in the United States to differentiate these Protestant Irish immigrants from the mid to late 19th century Catholic or native Irish immigrants who arrived in the United States in the wake of the mid 19th century Irish Potato Famine. Many American Presidents have had substantial Scots-Irish ancestry. Even the current American President, George W Bush, has some Scots-Irish ancestry. If you do a GOOGLE search for SCOTCH-IRISH or SCOTS-IRISH you will find a lot of info on the topic. The term 'Hillbilly' was also first used to describe some of the rural Scots-Irish in America.

I have mentioned in previous posts that most of the 19th century Irish immigrants to Scotland came from the north of Ireland, and most experts now estimate that around 25% of these immigrants were in fact Protestant Scots-Irish. Most of the Protestant Irish who came to Glasgow arrived in the early to mid 19th century. Many of them were weavers from the Belfast area who settled in the east end of Glasgow weaving district of Calton. Some Protestant Irish also settled in Partick and Govan in the west of Glasgow, and many of their descendants worked in the shipyards.

I hope I am not way off the mark about you great grandmother's ancestry.

Paul
Paul Kelly
Hi again Jo.

McCarron is a native Irish surname which is commonly found in west Ulster (Donegal, Derry, Tyrone).
I suspect Macaren either stands for the Scottish Planter surname McLaren or the native Irish surname McCarron.

Paul


http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/surname
Paul Kelly
I recently received a message from someone asking me about the McMillan and McMullan surnames. MacMillan or McMillan (MacGhilleMhaoil) is a Scottish surname and it seems to have originated in more than one part of Scotland. McMullen or McMullan (MacMaolain) is an unrelated Irish surname originating in County Derry in west Ulster.

There has been some intermingling of these 2 surnames. Firstly, it seems that some of the McMullans in east Ulster (Antrim and Down) are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McMillan Planters from Galloway, Dumfries and Ayrshire who adopted the Irish spelling of the surname. It also seems likely that some of the illiterate 19th century Irish McMullen immigrants to Scotland would have had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of McMillan.
Guest Tracey *
I have been researching my ancestors recently. I have discovered that my mum's 4 grandparents were all born in Ireland and settled in Scotland. I think they were all from County Donegal but I am not completely sure. My Irish greatgrandparents surnames were Carberry, Harkin or Harkins, Heron or Herron, Diver or Divers. The spellings of the surnames vary from document to document. My dad's ancestors all seem to be Scottish.
Paul Kelly
Harkin, Diver/Dever and Carberry are all native Irish surnames and the first 2 are very common in County Donegal, though Carberry is also found in Donegal. The Harron/Herron surname is also common in Donegal and is of mixed origins. Some Donegal Herrons are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Heron Planters, though the majority of Donegal Herrons are probably descended from the native Irish O'hEarain family who Anglicised their surname to Herron in the years following the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster.
Paul Kelly
I have briefly discussed the McIntyre and McAteer surnames before but I would like to say a bit more about them. McIntyre is a Scottish surname originating in Argyll. McAteer is an unrelated native Irish surname originating in Ulster. It is thought that SOME of the native Irish McAteers might be descendants of c15th century Scottish Catholic McIntyre Gallowglasses from Argyll. It is a possibility though no one really knows for sure. One thing that is known for sure is that some Scottish Protestant McIntyres settled in Ulster during the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster. It seems that some of these Scottish McIntyre Planters adopted the native Irish McAteer surname, particularly in east Ulster (Antrim and Down). Moreover, in the years following the Plantation, it seems that some of the native Irish McAteers in west Ulster (Donegal and Derry) adopted the Scottish Planter surname McIntyre. All very confusing!!! However, it seems that most of the 19th century Irish McAteer immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded correctly as McAteer. Nowadays McAteer is quite a common surname in the Glasgow area due to 19th century Irish immigration. McIntyre is of course a very common surname in Scotland.

McCallum is a Scottish surname originating in Argyll. McCollum (sometimes spelt McColm) is an unrelated native Irish surname originating in Ulster. It is thought that some of the native Irish McCollums might be descendants of c15th century Scottish Catholic McCallum Gallowglasses from Argyll. Again no one really knows for sure. However, it is known that some Scottish Protestant McCallums settled in Ulster during the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster and they ALL seem to have adopted the Irish surname McCollum. In fact, it seems that most of the McCollums in Ulster are of Scottish McCallum Planter extaction as opposed to native Irish stock. Finally, most if not all of the 19th century Irish McCollum immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of McCallum.
RonD
Hi Paul: I'm helping a friend with their family history and came across a lady by the surname Shannon, (not unheard of, but this documentation was from Scottish records) but when I found her mentioned on an Irish record she is listed as McShannog. Now, I see that from my resources Shannon can have both O and Mac derivations but I can't see anything remotely near this name listed as "Shannog" even after playing with vowels and dropping the "h". Would you have anything in your resources?
Paul Kelly
Hi Ron

http://www.gencircles.com/users/davidcheek...rname?McShannog

This Margaret McShannog was born in Scotland in 1797.

Shannon is undoubtedly an Irish surname but McShannon appears to be an obscure Scottish surname. I have looked through the International Genealogical Index and the McShannon surname seems to come from Kintyre, Scotland. The surname also appears in County Antrim, Ireland. I suspect a few McShannons moved from Kintyre to Antrim during the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster.
RonD
Thanks Paul: It's amazing how many of the Western Isles and Antrim names are interchangeable.

Cheers
wee mags
My Grandparents name was Halfpenny my granddads family came from Ireland
Paul Kelly
I have never heard of the Halfpenny surname before but I have just done a little research on it. Despite the fact that a small English Halfpenny Planter family probably settled in the east of Ireland in the 17th century, it seems that the majority of Halfpennys in the east of Ireland are descendants of the native Gaelic Irish O'hAilpin family who adopted Halfpenny as the Anglicised version of their surname in the years following the 17th century Plantations in Ireland. In the west of Ireland, the O'hAilpin surname was usually Anglicised as Halpin.

In post #163 I was discussing the Irish surname McAteer and the Scottish surname McIntyre and the intermingling of these 2 surnames. In a similar vain, McArthur is a Scottish surname originating in Argyll. The McArthurs are said to be related to the Campbells of Argyll. During the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster a number of McArthurs settled in Ulster. The McArthur surname is often spelt McCarter in Ulster - this is how an Irishman would pronounce the McArthur surname! However, it seems that a few of the Scottish Protestant McArthur/McCarter Planters in Ulster adopted the native Irish McAteer surname. Moreover, in post #163 I said it appears that most of the 19th century Irish McAteer immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded correctly as McAteer. However, there is some evidence that a few of the 19th century Irish McAteer immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded incorrectly as the Scottish surname McArthur.

The native Irish McGuinness (sometimes spelt McGinness or Magennis) surname originates in County Down in southeast Ulster and the surname is commonly found throughout Ulster. McInnes is an unrelated Scottish surname. It seems that a few Scottish Protestant McInnes Planters settled in Ulster in the 17th century and most of them adopted the native Irish McGuinness/Magennis surname. It also seems likely that a few of the 19th century Irish McGuinness immigrants to Scotland would have had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of McInnes.

In the same way, I am sure there has also been some intermingling of the Irish surname Ennis and the Scottish surname Innes.
Paul Kelly
In post #154 I was discussing the McAuley surname which is commonly found in County Antrim and I said that approximately a half of the Antrim McAuleys are Catholic and the other half are Protestant. Recently, I have been contacted by someone from Northern Ireland in connection with post #154, and another surname which is commonly found in County Antrim - McCambridge - has been drawn to my attention.

The McCambridge surname originates in the southern part of the Kintyre peninsula, Argyll, Scotland. During the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster, a number of Protestant McCambridge families were encouraged to move from Kintyre to north Antrim. By the 18th century, the McCambridge surname was virtually unheard of in Scotland. Nearly all the McCambridges were now living in County Antrim. I have been informed (reliably I hope!) that approximately a half of the McCambridges in County Antrim today are Protestant and the other half are Catholic. Given that the 17th century Scottish McCambridge Planters from Kintyre were Protestants you might wonder why this situation has arisen. There are 2 possible explanations. Firstly, the northern part of County Antrim (around the Glens of Antrim) is the part of County Antrim where Catholics are in the majority. So given that the McCambridge Planters settled in north Antrim amongst many Catholic families, it is likely that some McCambridge men have married into these Catholic families over the past 4 centuries. Of course, mixed marriages have never been that common in Ulster so another possible explanation is that some Catholic McCambridge families moved from Kintyre to north Antrim in the 16th century before the late 16th century Reformation in Scotland. If you look at a map of the British Isles you will see that the islands of Britain and Ireland are closest between the Mull of Kintyre and the north Antrim coast. There have been many migrations back and forward between Kintyre and north Antrim over the past 2 millennia. It seems likely that some McCambridge families from southern Kintyre settled in north Antrim in the early to mid 16th century before the large and organised 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster.

The McCambridge surname was reintroduced into Scotland in the mid 19th century by Irish immigrants. Most, if not all, of the McCambridges in Scotland today are descendants of 19th century Irish immigrants from Ulster, especially County Antrim.

For further discussion of the McCambridge surname, see post #65 of the topic 'Are the Scots Really Irish?
Paul Kelly
The Tinney (or Tinny) surname is meant to have originated in the north of England. My greatgreatgrandmother was a Catherine (Kate) Tinney from Meenavoy, Stranorlar, County Donegal (born circa 1840). It seems that there was a small English Tinny Planter family in County Donegal. However, the majority of Tinneys in County Donegal appear to be descended from the native Gaelic Irish MacAntSionnaigh (pronounced McAtinney) family who Anglicised their surname to Tinney in the years following the 17th century Plantations in Ireland. I think Kate Tinney was from this native Irish family.

In the 1857 Griffith's Valuation for County Donegal (which lists the heads of all the households in Donegal c1857) Kate's father - my greatgreatgreatgrandfather - is listed as a John Tunny of Meenavoy, Stranorlar. I think John Tunny was born in Drumkeen, Convoy, Donegal in the early 1800s and he married and settled in Meenavoy, Stranorlar. John Tunny's children and grandchildren all spelled their surname Tinney.

Tunney or Tunny (O'Tonnaigh) is a surname associated with Counties Mayo and Sligo in the west of Ireland and is often confused with the Donegal Tinney (Mac an tSionnaigh) surname. The confusion is understandable as the Tinney surname is pronounced 'Tunny' in Donegal.
Paul Kelly
Hi Ron.

I have just been thinking about what you said in post #166. The following Scottish Catholic Gallowglass families all settled in County Antrim in the 14th, 15th and early 16th centuries: McDonnell (McDonald) from Kintyre and Islay in Argyll, McAllister (McAlister) from Kintyre in Argyll, McCoy (McKay) from Kintyre in Argyll, McNeill from Gigha and Colonsay in Argyll, McDowell (McDougall) from Lorn/Lorne in Argyll and McAuley (McAulay) from Islay in southern Argyll. In addition, Scottish Protestant Planter families with the same 6 surnames also settled in County Antrim in the 17th century.
Paul Kelly
I could have also included the McClean (McLean) surname in my last post but it is not nearly as numerous in County Antrim as the other 6 surnames listed above. A few McClean Galloglasses from the Isle of Mull in northern Argyll are said to have settled in Ulster in the 15th or early 16th century. However, the vast majority of McCleans (McLeans) in Antrim (and Ulster in general) are descendants of 17th century Scottish Planters.
RonD
My great great grandmother was McDonald and her mother was and Ogilvie. Not sure where they originated suppose it was County Down My gg grandmother married a Brown from County Down who were in Scotland pre famine 1847-48. I surmised County Down from a a census report from his sister. From marriages of siblings it appears they were protestants, Maria Brown my great grandmother married my great grandfather Dempsey in a Catholic ceremony.
Paul Kelly
McKeever is a native Irish surname originating in west Ulster. McKeever is common in Tyrone and Derry and the spelling McGeever is common in Donegal. McIvor is an unrelated Scottish surname and has origins in more than one part of Scotland. There has been some intermingling of the Irish McKeever and Scottish McIvor surnames, particularly in Ulster.
Paul Kelly
The following surnames are all commonly found in Ulster and I have discussed them in previous posts: McHugh/McCue, McCoy/McKay, McKee and McGee/Magee. These surnames are often confused with one another and I would like to clarify a few things.

The McHugh/McCue surname is a native Irish surname originating in west Ulster and is common in County Donegal.

The McCoy/McKay surname is commonly found in east Ulster, particularly County Antrim. Some of the Ulster McCoys/McKays are descendants of 15th century Scottish Catholic McKay Galloglasses from Kintyre and Islay while the other Ulster McCoys/McKays are mainly descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McKay Planters from Kintyre. McCoy is the Irish spelling of the Scottish surname McKay and both forms of the surname are found in Ulster.

The McKee surname is commonly found in east Ulster, particularly Counties Down and Armagh. The Ulster McKees are mainly descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McKie Planters from Dumfries and Galloway. McKee is the Irish spelling of the Scottish surname McKie which originates in Galloway.

The McGee/Magee surname is common in both east and west Ulster. The McGee family of west Ulster (Donegal, Tyrone and Fermanagh) is a native Irish family. The Magees of east Ulster (Antrim and Down) are mainly descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McGhee Planters from Ayrshire and Galloway. McGhee is a Scottish surname originating in Galloway. The McGhee and McKie families of Galloway are said to be related.

Most of the 19th century Irish McCoy and McGee/Magee immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish forms of McKay and McGhee.

There has been some intermingling of all the above surnames because of the many movements of families between Scotland and Ireland.
petalpeeps
my husbands family originate from ireland, our name is mcdonnell often confused with mcdonald
peter patten
QUOTE (Paul Kelly @ 26th Sep 2006, 06:04 AM) *
Campbell, Murray, Morrison and Patton/Patten are Scottish surnames and there are people in Ulster today with these surnames who are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters.

However, there were native Catholic Irish families in west Ulster - Donegal, Derry and Tyrone - who adopted these 4 surnames as the Anglicized versions of their Gaelic surnames shortly after the Plantation. Today, there are famous Catholic Irish families in Donegal and Tyrone with these surnames. In addition, some of the Catholic Campbells in Donegal are descendants of 14th century Scottish Gallowglasses. Campbell is a very common surname in County Donegal.
(See my discussion of Gallowglass families under the topic 'Are the Scots Really Irish?' in this 'Family History' forum.)

As a result, a significant minority of the Campbells, Murrays, Morrisons and Pattons in Scotland today are descendants of 19th century Catholic Irish immigrants from west Ulster, particularly in the Glasgow area.

well explained Paul, but hard for some to fathom. I knew an Irish Patton of Planter stock who thought the idea of a native Irish Patton sept was just a ploy to sell coats of arms to Yanks!?
At that point, I gave up on my explanation.
Best Regards,
Peter Patten
Vermont
Paul Kelly
There are at least 4 sources for the McDonnell surname in Ireland. There is a native Gaelic Irish McDonnell family originating in Clare/Limerick in the Provinve of Munster in the south west of Ireland. There is another native Gaelic Irish McDonnell family originating in Fermanagh/Monaghan in south west Ulster. There is a large McDonnell family in north east Ulster who are descendants of Scottish Catholic McDonald Galloglasses who moved from Kintyre and Islay in southern Argyll to the Glens of Antrim in the 14th century. There is also a large McDonnell family in County Mayo in the Province of Connacht in the west of Ireland who are also descendants of 14th/15th century Scottish Catholic McDonald Gallowglasses from southern Argyll. Some McDonnell Galloglasses are even said to have settled in the Province of Leinster in the south east of Ireland. In fact, the majority of McDonnells in Ireland are descendants of 14th/15th Scottish Catholic McDonald Galloglasses from Kintyre and Islay. Finally, some McDonnells in Ulster (and in Ireland in general) are desecendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant McDonald Planters, though some of the McDonald Planters continued to use the Scottish spelling 'McDonald'. Furthermore, a few native and Galloglas Irish McDonnell families have adopted the Scottish spelling 'McDonald' at various times when they thought it was advantageous to have a Scottish surname. Lastly, there is the native Gaelic Irish O'Donnell family from County Donegal who are not related to any of the above McDonnell families.
Paul Kelly
Continuing with my last post, McConnell is a Scottish surname long associated with Ayrshire. Most of the McConnells in Ulster today are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Ayrshire. However, it seems likely that a few of the McConnells in Ulster are descended from Gallowglass and native Irish McDonnell families who adopted the McConnell surname in the years following the Plantation of Ulster when they thought it was advantageous to do so.

O'Connell, Connelly, Connolly and Donnelly are all native Irish surnames associated with Kerry, Galway, Monaghan and Tyrone respectively.
Paul Kelly
Hi Peter.

I have just noticed your post. There was a Patten/Patton Planter family in Donegal and they were either of southern Scottish or northern English extraction. However, there was also a native Irish Patten/Patton family from the Ballybofey area in the parish of Stranorlar in southeast Donegal. The original Irish Gaelic form of this surname was O'Peatain and it was Anglicised as Patten/Patton in the years following the Plantation of Ulster. 2 of the younger brothers of my greatgrandfather - Hugh Kelly - married 2 Patten/Patton sisters from Lettermore, near Drumkeen, in the Donegal parish of Convoy (Post #64). Lettermore is just a few miles to the north of the town of Ballybofey. I understand that there was also a small O'Peatain family in County Mayo who also Anglicised their surname as Patten/Patton.

Another Scottish Planter surname that was adopted by a native Irish family from the Ballybofey area in Donegal was Houston or Huston. The original Irish Gaelic form of this native Donegal family's surname was
Mac Giolla tSeachlainn or MacGiollatSeachlainn. One of my greatgreatgrandmothers was a Mary Bridget Houston/Huston from Magheravall, Convoy, Donegal. Lettermore and Magheravall are neighbouring villages near Drumkeen in the parish of Convoy, Donegal.

Paul
Brendan
My surname is Tierney. In checking the Scottish records I knwo that my family arrived in Kilmarnock in the late 1840s. The census for 1851 tells me that they wre born in Ireland but gives nothing else. How can I go back further to find out where in Ireland. Are thererecords of the ships passengers or does Kilmarnock hold other records giving more detail of the birthplaces?

I've just found this site so apologies if my question is one to which everyone else already knows the answer.

Brendan
Paul Kelly
Hi Brendan.

Locating where exactly your Tierney ancestors came from in Ireland could be like searching for a needle in a haystack. The Tierney surname is found throughout the whole of the island of Ireland. Did you never get an indication from your parents or grandparents where you Tierney ancestors originated? I know these things are often never discussed in families and people become interested when the older generations are already dead.

Having said all that, most of the 19th century Irish immigrants to Scotland came from the 9 counties of Ulster. In Ulster, the Tierney surname is commonly found in Counties Tyrone, Cavan, Monaghan and Fermanagh. I think there is quite a strong likelihood that your Tierney ancestors came from County Tyrone or one of the neighbouring Ulster counties. You could try searching in the International Genealogical Index which is free.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/fra...clear_form=true

Your Irish ancestors may of course not be listed here. For example, Catholic births, marriages and deaths were usually not recorded in County Donegal before 1864. I am not sure if this was also the case in the neighbouring county of Tyrone.

You also have an Irish first name.

Hope you manage fo find something.

Paul
Paul Kelly
Someone was recently asking me about the surname Donnachie (sometimes spelt Donnachy) and whether it is a Scottish or Irish surname.

It turns out that Donnachie is in fact a Scottish surname originating in Perthshire. In the 15th century most, if not all, of the Donnachie clan adopted the surname Robertson, though I am not sure if all of the Scottish clan Robertson are descended from the Donnachie clan.

Donaghy is an unrelated native Irish surname originating in Counties Derry and Tyrone in west Ulster. Most of the 19th century Irish Donaghy immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of Donnachie.

Given that most of the native Scottish Donnachie family adopted the Robertson surname in the 15th century, I think it is fair to say that most, if not all, of the Donnachies in Scotland today are descendants of 19th century Catholic Irish Donaghy immigrants from Ulster.
Mahegradon
Quite a few people over the years have asked me about my surname, CULLEN, so I had imagined it to be fairly rare in Scotland. That was until I worked in the filing room of a company in Glasgow and discovered that Cullens are 10 a penny.
I believe the name means 'Holly' in Irish and it originated in Kildare. My grandfather was a Dubliner.
I've recently read though, that the name can also mean 'A person from Cologne'.
Now this has left me wondering; Which side were we on at the Battle of Clontarf?
Renee
Yes...I was wondering if you could tell me anything about my surname... Stith? Any help would be much appreciated!!
Paul Kelly
I think Stith/Styth is an English surname originating in Lancashire. According to the International Genealogy Index there were once a few Stiths living in the Dublin area who were probably descendants of 17th century English Protestant Planters.
BarC
My name is Cunningham though I understand it was originally Conaghan from Donegal.
RonD
I see a Stitt listed as a Scottish surname, from the Dumfries area.
Paul Kelly
BarC,

Conaghan is a native Irish surname originating in west Ulster (Donegal, Derry, Tyrone). Cunningham is a Scottish surname originating in Ayrshire. Many Cunninghams settled in Ulster (particularly County Down in east Ulster) during the 17th century Scottish Protestant Plantations of Ulster. Moreover, some of the native Catholic Irish Conaghans in west Ulster adopted the Cunningham surname in the years following the Plantations when they thought it was advantageous to do so. In addition, I am sure some of the 19th century Irish Conaghan immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded incorrectly as Cunningham either deliberately (as they wanted to conceal their Irish roots) or accidently (as they were illiterate and Scottish officials would have naturally recorded the surname in a Scottish manner.)

http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/surname/in...ham&UserID=

Breslin (O'Breaslain) is a native Irish surname originating in Donegal. O'Muirgheasain is also a native Irish surname originating in north east Donegal (Inishowen) and west Derry. In the years following the 17th century Plantations of Ulster some of the Breslins adopted the surname Brice/Bryce and all of the O'Muirgheasains adopted either the surname Morrison or the surname Bryson. Morrison, Bryson, Bryce and Brice are of course Scottish/English Planter surnames in Ulster.

Finally, Grant is a Scottish surname. Granny (O'Granny) is a native Irish surname originating in north east Donagal (Inishowen) and McGranaghan is a native Irish surname originating in east Donegal. The Granny and McGranaghan surnames are said to be related. Many Grants settled in Ulster, particularly east Ulster, during the 17th century Scottish Plantations of Ulster. In addition, during the 18th and 19th centuries, many of the native Irish in Donegal with the surnames Granny and McGranaghan adopted the surname Grant.
RonD
My oldest Dempsey ancestor was Terence Dempsey married to an Isobel Graham. I am not sure where in Ireland . I have to think that what you mentioned previously Paul that Graham was an anglicized version of an Irish name, the closest I can see is O' Gehan
Paul Kelly
Hi Ron.

I think what you are saying is quite likely. I have just had a look at the surnames you mentioned. Graham is undoubtedly a Scottish surname and most of the Grahams in Ireland - particularly in Ulster - are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Lothian and Borders.

O'Greachain is a native Irish surname originating in the Irish Midlands (Westmeath, Offaly, Longford, Roscommon, etc) and is quite common all the way across the middle of Ireland from the east coast (Louth, Meath) to the west coast (Mayo, Galway). The surname is pronounced O'Grehan and the usual spelling of the surname is Grehan. However, it seems that some Grehans adopted the surname Graham in the 18th and 19th centuries.

http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/surname


Gormley (O'Garmaile) is a native Irish surname originating in County Tyrone in Ulster. There is the suggestion that a few Gormleys also adopted the Scottish Planter surname Graham.

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Identity/folk.htm


A few Grehans and Gormleys are also said to have adopted the English Planter surname Grimes.


Paul
curstag
QUOTE (Paul Kelly @ 21st Sep 2007, 01:57 PM) *
Hi Ron.

I think what you are saying is quite likely. I have just had a look at the surnames you mentioned. Graham is undoubtedly a Scottish surname and most of the Grahams in Ireland - particularly in Ulster - are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Lothian and Borders.

O'Greachain is a native Irish surname originating in the Irish Midlands (Westmeath, Offaly, Longford, Roscommon, etc) and is quite common all the way across the middle of Ireland from the east coast (Louth, Meath) to the west coast (Mayo, Galway). The surname is pronounced O'Grehan and the usual spelling of the surname is Grehan. However, it seems that some Grehans adopted the surname Graham in the 18th and 19th centuries.

http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/surname
Gormley (O'Garmaile) is a native Irish surname originating in County Tyrone in Ulster. There is the suggestion that a few Gormleys also adopted the Scottish Planter surname Graham.

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Identity/folk.htm
A few Grehans and Gormleys are also said to have adopted the English Planter surname Grimes.
Paul


Hi Paul,

You seem to be very knowledgable on Irish family history. Can you help with the following:

' Hi, does anyone have any information on rare two Irish names from my family? I recently have been doing my family tree and found long lost relatives with the name of Lyden. We have traced the family as far back as a James Lyden, married to an Agnes Menamin. Their son William Lyden was born in 1837 and married a Hannah (sometimes referred to as Joanna) Payne and they settled in Clydebank after he left the Royal Artillery.

Also, family folklore seems to have arisen quite independently from various branches in the States, England, Scotland and Ireland that the Lydens were not originally Irish, but settled there after being mercenaries who fought either for William of Orange or escaped from Scotland after being on the wrong side in the Jacobite rebellion. Two very different sides of the religious divide!

Rumour has it that they were possibly Dutch. However, I have found the Gaelic name O'loideain. Can anyone shed light on the rumour? One family website for the Liddens has the same story and it says that they became, 'more Irish than the Irish.' I'm confused!!!! Did they 'gaelisize' or were they Irish? There are aslo Lydens in Holland with variant spellings and many in Scandinavia with the same spelling. Which line should I follow?

There is also the name Timpany in the family tree. Can anyone give any background on that name. I believe it originated in Northern Ireland.

Many thanks '
Paul Kelly
'Mac Gille Iosa' is a Scottish Gaelic surname meaning 'the son of the follower of Jesus' and the name arose independently in various parts of Scotland. In some parts of Scotland the surname was Anglicised as Gillis or Gillies while in other parts of Scotland it was Anglicised as McLeish.

'Mac Giolla Iosa' is an unrelated Irish Gaelic surname also meaning 'the son of the devotee of Jesus' and the name originated in County Derry in Ulster. The surname was Anglicised as McAleese in north Ulster (Antrim/Derry) and as Gilleece or Gilleese in southwest Ulster (Fermanagh/Tyrone).

There is evidence that there has been some intermingling of the Irish McAleese and Scottish McLeish surnames and of the Irish Gilleece and Scottish Gillies surnames.

During the 17th century Scottish Protestant Plantations of Ulster, some people with the surnames McLeish and Gillis settled in Ulster. While the Scottish surnames of Gillis and McLeish can be found in Ulster as a result of the Plantations, there is evidence that a few of the McLeish and Gillies Planters adopted the Irish spellings of McAleese and Gilleese. There is even some evidence that a few of the native Irish Gilleeces in Ulster adopted the Scottish spelling of Gillis in certain villages. For the same person in Ulster, you might find the Scottish spelling of Gillis or McLeish on one document (eg a birth certificate) and then the Irish spelling of Gilleese or McAleese on another document (eg a census return)

Moreover, there is evidence that some of the illiterate 19th century Catholic Irish McAleese and Gilleece immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded by officials in the Scottish forms of McLeish and Gillies.

The current Irish President is of course Belfast born Mary McAleese.
Deb Marshall
Hi, Paul. I've learned much from reading the entries about Irish surnames in Scotland. I've just picked up researching again after setting it aside for awhile. My families on both sides didn't keep information about their ancestors, so it has been very difficult to do research with so little information. I've discovered a lot just from reading these posts. Thanks to all for their input.

I've two major surnames that I'm researching: McCluskey and McCallum, both of which I've seen listed in these posts. My aunt has managed to go back to the point of the McCluskey family departing Scotland and coming to America, but no information as to when our ancestors left Ireland for Scotland. Does anyone know anything at all about these two surnames as far as their occupations and standard of living in Ireland, and what they might have done once in Scotland?

I've been reading about the origin of the McCluskey surname in Ireland and was quite surprised to find out it was a sub-sept of O'Cahan clan. I've discovered some very interesting details about this surname and am anxious to fill in the gaps between the 12th century and 19th century McCluskeys.

We are hoping to visit Britain again next summer, and would love to have something tangible to take with me to Ireland and Scotland that would open some doors for me.

Many thanks to anyone who knows something of these surnames.
Paul Kelly
Continuing with my last post about religious surnames, Gilchrist can be a Scottish or an Irish surname. The Irish surname originates in the western province of Connacht (around County Leitrim). While some of the Gilchrists in Ulster are probably connected to the native Irish family from north Connacht, it seems that most of the Gilchrists in Ulster are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters.

Gilmartin or Kilmartin is a native Irish surname originating in north Connacht (Sligo, Leitrim) and southwest Ulster (Fermanagh, Tyrone). In Ulster, the Gilmartin surname is usually abbreviated to Martin. However, some of the Martins in Ulster, particularly east Ulster, are descendants of 17th century Scottish/English Martin Planters.

Gilmore is a native Irish surname originating in Connacht and Ulster. Gilmour is an unrelated Scottish surname. It seems that many of the Gilmores in Ulster are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Gilmour Planters from Galloway and south Ayrshire.

Fitzpatrick is a native Irish surname commonly found throughout Ireland. Kilpatrick is a Scottish surname. The Fitzpatrick surname is occasionally recorded as Kilpatrick, especially in Ulster. However, the majority of Kilpatricks in Ulster seem to be descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Dumfries and Galloway. Kirkpatrick is also quite a common Scottish Planter surname in Ulster.
Paul Kelly
'Mac Giolla Bhrighde' is an Irish Gaelic surname meaning 'the son of the devotee of St Bridget'. The surname originated in County Donegal, west Ulster. A branch of the Donegal family migrated to County Down, east Ulster, in early times. In Ulster the surname has been Anglicised as McBride. In north Connacht the surname has been Anglicised as Kilbride or Gilbride.

'Mac Gille Brighde' is a Scottish Gaelic surname also meaning 'the son of the servant of St Bridget'. The surname is said to have originated on the Isles of Arran and Bute in what was once southern Argyll. The surname has also been Anglicised as McBride and occasionally Kilbride.

There has been a lot of intermingling of the Irish and Scottish McBride surnames. Some Scottish Protestant McBrides from Arran and North Ayrshire settled in east Ulster during the 17th century Scottish Plantations of Ulster. In addition, many Catholic Irish McBrides from Ulster (particularly County Donegal) settled in the Glasgow area in the 19th century.
Paul Kelly
Deb,

O'Cathain is a common Irish Gaelic surname which arose independently in more than one part of Ireland. In Ulster the surname has been Anglicised as O'Kane (O'Cahan) or Kane. In the south of Ireland the surname has been Anglicised as Keane. The O'Kane family of Ulster originated in County Derry and the Kane surname is now commonly found in Derry and the neighbouring counties of Antrim, Donegal and Tyrone. Like so many other families with origins in the northwest of Ireland, the O'Kanes are said to be direct descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages. The Kanes were a powerful family in County Derrry in pre-Plantation times. The McCluskey or McCloskey family (MacBhloscaidh in Gaelic) also originated in County Derry and they are said to be related to the O'Kanes. The McCluskey surname is commonly found in Derry, Antrim, Donegal and Tyrone. Kane and McCluskey are now common surnames in the Glasgow area as a result of 19th century Irish immigration into Scotland.

I briefly discussed the McCallum surname in post #163 of this topic. McCallum is a Scottish surname originating in Argyll. I think McCallum country is traditionally the area to the west of Loch Awe and south of Loch Avich. When I was at secondary school in the mid 80s I remember going a school trip to Barmaddy, near Dalavich, in Argyll. The area was very beautiful and unspoilt and I remember walking around Loch Avich on a glorious summer's day.

McCollum or McColm is a native Irish surname originating in north Ulster (Antrim, Derry). It is speculated that some of these native Irish McCollums might in fact be descendants of 14th/15th century Scottish Catholic McCallum Galloglasses from Argyll (pre-Reformation). It is a possibility. No one really knows for sure. However, during the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster (post-Reformation), Protestant McCallum Planters from Argyll did settle in Ulster and they adopted the Irish surname McCollum. In fact, it seems that a majority of the McCollums in Ulster today are of McCallum Planter extraction. While some McCallums settled in Ulster in the 17th century, many others remained in Argyll. In the 18th century some of these Argyll McCallums copied their clan chief and changed their surname to Malcolm for aesthetic reasons. (It should be noted that not all people with the surname Malcolm are related to the McCallums.) I am not sure how many ordinary McCallums followed their chief's example and changed their surname to Malcolm. In the 19th century, many Irish McCollums (of both native Catholic and Scottish Protestant Planter extraction) migrated from Ulster to the Glasgow area and they adopted the Scottish surname McCallum. The fact that some of the Argyll McCallums changed their surname to Malcolm in the 18th century makes me wonder what percentage of the McCallums in the Glasgow area today are in fact descendants of 19th century McCollum immigrants from Ulster. Many of these Irish McCollum immigrants were of course descendants of 17th century Scottish McCallum Planters so you could say that they were just returning home to Scotland.
Paul Kelly
I mentioned the McGill surname in an earlier post but I would like to say a bit more about the McGill and Gill surnames. The McGill surname arose independently in both Scotland and Ireland. In Scotland the surname originated in Galloway and most of the McGills in east Ulster (Antrim, Down, Armagh) are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Galloway and Ayrshire. The McGill surname is often spelt Magill in east Ulster. In contrast, in west Ulster (Donegal, Tyrone), the McGills are predominantly a native Irish family and there are McGills in the Glasgow area today who are descendants of 19th century Irish immigrants from this native west Ulster family.

Gill can be an Irish, Scottish or even English surname. While the Gills in east Ulster (Antrim/Down) are mainly descendants of 17th century Scottish Planters, most of the Gills in Ireland are of native Irish stock and the surname is particularly common in the Province of Connacht in the west of Ireland (Mayo, Galway, Roscommon) and in west Ulster (Donegal).

I have also briefly discussed the McCartney surname before though not under this topic. McCartney is a Scottish surname and most of the McCartneys in Ulster are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters from Ayrshire, Galloway and Dumfries. However, McCartan or McCarton is a native Irish surname originating in County Down in east Ulster. There is evidence that a few of the native east Ulster McCartans adopted the Scottish surname McCartney when they thought it was advantageous to do so. In addition, there is evidence that some of the 19th century Irish McCartan immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded incorrectly as McCartney. There is also the suggestion that some members of the relatively rare native Irish Mulhartagh and McCaugherty families of west Ulster (Tyrone, Derry, Fermanagh, Donegal) adopted the McCartney surname in the years following the Plantations.

Finally, Griffin can be an Irish, Welsh or even English surname. While most of the Griffins in Ireland are of native Irish stock, it is likely that a few of the Griffins in eastern Ireland are descendants of 17th century English/Welsh Planters.
Paul Kelly
Carr is an English surname and Kerr is a Scottish surname. Carr and Kerr are very common surnames in Ulster. Most of the Carrs in Ulster are native Irish who adopted Carr as the Anglicised version of their Gaelic surnames in the years following the Plantations. For example, the Mac Giolla Chathair surname in County Donegal and the O'Cairre surname in County Armagh were both Anglicised as Carr. In contrast, most of the Kerrs in Ulster are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters. However some of the native Irish Carrs in Ulster changed their surnames to Kerr when they thought it was advantageous to do so. In addition, there is evidence that some of the 19th century native Irish Carr immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of Kerr.

http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/surname/in...err&UserID=

Meehan is an Irish surname. McMeechan/McMechan/McMeekin and Meechan/Mechan are Scottish surnames. McMeechan Planters from Galloway and Ayrshire settled in Ulster during the 17th century Scottish Protestant Plantations and possibly a few Meechan Planters too. Moreover, many of the 19th century Catholic Irish Meehan immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of Meechan. In fact, most of the people in Scotland today with the surname Meechan are of Irish Meehan ancestry

Finally, McGeehan is an Irish surname and McGeechan/McGeachan is a rare Scottish surname. Some of the 19th century Irish McGeehan immigrants (from mainly Donegal) to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of McGeechan.
Paul Kelly
In post #183, I said that most of the Scottish clan Donnachie/Connachie adopted the Robertson surname in the 15th century. This was undoubtedly the case. However a few did not and continued to use the Connachie or McConnachie surname, but NOT the Donnachie or McDonnachie surname. The Donnachie/McDonnachie surname almost certainly died out in Scotland, and was reintroduced into Scotland by 19th century Catholic Irish Donaghy immigrants. As I said in post #183, Donaghy is un unrelated native Irish surname originating in west Ulster (Derry/Tyrone) and most of the 19th century Catholic Irish Donaghy immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish form of Donnachie or Donachie. During the 17th century Scottish Protestant Plantations of Ulster many Robertsons and some McConnachies/Connachies settled in Ulster. The Scottish McConachie/McConnachie/Conachie/Connachie Planters usually spelt their surname McConaghy/McConnaghy/Conaghy/Connaghy or even McConkey/Conkey in Ulster. The Scottish Planter Conaghy surname in Ulster should of course not be confused with the native Irish Conaghan surname. In post #189, I commented that some of the 19th century Catholic Irish Conaghan immigrants to Scotland had their surname recorded in the Scottish form of Cunningam. In fact, it seems that some of them had their surname recorded as Conachan or Connachan. All very confusing! McDonagh and Donohoe are also native Irish surnames.

Moore is a common surname in Ireland. While some Irish Moores are of native Irish O'More stock, others are descendants of 17th century English Moore and Scottish Muir Planters.

In post #117, I commented that most of the 19th century Irish Kearns and Kearney immigrants to Scotland had their surnames recorded in the Scottish forms of Cairns and Cairney. Similarly, the Irish surnames of Curran and Kerin (or Kerins) were sometimes recorded as Corran and Corrins in Scotland.
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