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valros
Magsos,

I remember my mother speaking about Terry Welsh--can you believe he was her coalman smile.gif

My parents would most certainly have known yours too.

They lived at 12 Villiers Street too then I think my grandmother got their wee single end when they moved to Rhymer Street.

My parents were also married in St Roch's on 11th June 1923, I think I still have their marriage certificate !! I was married in St Roch's too.

Valros
valros
Paul,

When you first mentioned the name Glenn I could only think about the school teacher, then it came to me when you posted one of the names--Elizabeth--that my Mother spoke about a Lizzie Glenn.
I don't know whether this was the woman's maiden name or married name.
I also get the feeling that I met the woman a couple of times when I was in my teens so if that is the case--and it is the same person--chances are she didn't move too far away from the area!!

Like magsos, I am finding this thread interesting.

Valros
J.McInally
Hello everybody. I found this site through reading Robert McLaughlin's site and I must say the whole route has been very interesting. I am an ex-Garngader myself, and I state here and now it will always be the Garngad to me, I never refer to it as Royston, I even address all my letters to there as Garngad ( the Garden of God ) to this day and they still get there. I was born in Rhymer St and at an early age (5) we moved to Tharsis St where I lived in the same close as the McQueens and the Collins', referred to by Robert. I ran about with Harry McQueen and Hughie Collins, the guy mentioned by Robert as being jailed for murder, as well as his uncle Alec, among others. It was ironic that when reading through Robert's site that I couldn't recall him, him stating that he had been a policeman and from Tharsis St,that wouldn't have gone un-noticed in Garngad, until he mentioned that he had lived in the Copperwork and had then moved to the flats, that's when everything came together and I realised that I had ran about with his brother Tommy. I have since E-Mailed Tommy and he does recall me and as I had praised his brother's site, he thanked me for my kind words, it was just a shame that I never got the chance to express them to Robert himself. I knew Big Willie John Monaghan and all his family, many's the times I climbed the drainpipe for Mrs Monaghan because she had left her key in the house. I ran about with and played football with his son Willie junior, I even manged to bump into him on a visit back to the Garngad to see my old man, who still resides there ( age 82 ).I stood at Celtic Park with Willie junior and the Romeos (or the Romies as they were referred to ), and willie juniors brothers James and Terry. The Faulds' that Robert mentioned as well were, I am sure, cousins of the Monaghans, and Albert is back living in the Garngad. Sad to say one of the daughters, Helen, who I also knew from my childhood. died not too long ago. My Father was brought up, and as I said, still lives in the Garngad. My Mother, who has sadly passed away, was also brought up in the Garngad, her maiden name was McDade.

To Paul Kelly, Paul thanks for another bit of history and nostalgia about the Garngad. Between you and Robert McLaughlin it has been to say the least very interesting.
Can I also add that as far as I know the wee Roch will be celebrating it's Centenary this year, I am sure.
'Bye everyone, Joe.
valros
Hi Joe,

What a good post you have made, such a lot of information there.

Robert Mc Laughlin's webpage was certainly a great one for me and like yourself, it would have been nice to send him an e-mail about it.

I copied out some things he spoke about on his site and sent them on to my cousin and his wife, I asked them on the phone if they had known him, they both did know him and called him "Big Robbie" They also recognised the names mentioned.

I had mentioned in a much earlier post that I had a guy called Albert Monaghan in my class in school, could possibly be the same one as you knew. ?

The Centenary for the Primary school and the Church are next year Joe 2007.

I keep hoping that Paul can come up with more bits of history for us smile.gif
I just wish I had kept a diary when I was young and put on paper everything my parents spoke about.

Thanks again for your interesting post Joe.

Best Wishes

Valros
Paul Kelly
Hi Joe.

Welcome to Glasgow Guide. I enjoyed reading your post. I remember seeing the McInally surname a couple of times in Robert McLaughlin's website. I think it was in the articles by Ronnie McDonald.

Paul.
J.McInally
I saw them as well Paul, but alas they are not related to me, although I knew quite a lot of McInallys in the area. In the article by Ronnie McDonald, many of the people mentioned in it, were, and still are, friends of my Dads.

Thank you for your welcome.
Paul Kelly
Hi Valros.

Until I read your last post, I wasn't actually aware St Roch's RC Church was celebrating its centenary this year. I had often wondered why my greatgrandparents Hugh Kelly and Elizabeth McCormick/McCormack had married at St Mungo's RC Church, Parson Street, north Townhead, in 1890 and not at St Roch's in Garngad. (They were residing at Villiers Street and Turner Street, Garngad respectively at the time of their marriage.) Now I know why. St Roch's only came into existence in 1907 to help alleviate the pressure on St Mungo's caused by the large Catholic population in Garngad and north Townhead at the start of the 20th century.

Paul
valros
Hi Paul,

A friend very kindly got me a calendar especially printed for the centenary year, it says

St. Roch's Garngad 1907----2007

So that is why your great grandparents married in St Mungo's.

Valros
J.McInally
QUOTE (J.McInally @ 16th Dec 2006, 12:05 AM) *
I saw them as well Paul, but alas they are not related to me, although I knew quite a lot of McInallys in the area. In the article by Ronnie McDonald, many of the people mentioned in it, were, and still are, friends of my Dads.

Thank you for your welcome.



I am sorry to say that I spoke to my Father just recently, and he told me that Ronnie McDonald has passed away.
Paul Kelly
Hi Joe.

I am sorry to hear about the death of Ronnie McDonald. I enjoyed reading his articles on the Garngad.

Paul
gerry mcdonald
Ronnie McDonald a "Garngad Man"

My Da passed away peacefully on the 11th of Feb 2007 in Stobhill. He was surrounded by the most important thing in his life, his Family. This was a fitting end to his long and happy life.

The other great loves of my Da's life were, his heritage, St Roch's Juniors and the Garngad. Because although my Da was born in France he was a Garngad man through and through. I grew up listening to all the old stories of the "road" and the "hill" and his old haunt the "Hibs". He also liked his daily flutter in "Smith" the bookies he seldom won, we all believe all his selections carried an extra few pounds.

I am sure everyone knew my Da knows he was a man of strong principles and these principles may not have agreed with everybody but my Da always said that "Everyone had the right to be wrong".

My Da was also a great organiser or so he thought, but on the whole he tried to put other peoples pleasure before his own.

My Da always made sure we had a family holiday every year and we spent many a fantastic time in Jersey with the whole gang. These memories can never be erased and will be cherished forever.

We all thought my Da was indestructible, I'm just glad when the end did come it was just as he would have wanted it surrounded by his family.

There was a massive turnout at the funeral and the hymns and offertory were sung by Patricia fearon. Father Boyle spoke very highly of my Da and my sister Rosemary gave my Da a fantastic eulogy. All this was a great comfort to the family and especially my Wee Mammy.

My Da was not just a good man he was a "GREAT" man, most of all he was a "Garngad Man".
valros
Hello Gerry,

Condolences to you and your family on the death of your father. You are very proud of him,I can see that in the way you speak of him.

Many a time I had to go to Smith's the bookie to put a line on for my Dad. I haven't been up the area for over 40 years but I always loved my growing up years in it, I attended both St Roch's Primary and Secondary schools and never forget my roots.

It was good to hear from you Gerry, best wishes

Valros
Angela Chick
Gerry i dont have anything to say on Garngad history, but just wanted to offer my condolences on the loss of your dad may he rest in peace.
Melody
Gerry, my heart goes out to you. Those beautiful words just created the picture of a lovely and yes ' Great' man. God grant you solace in your loss, it must still be very raw to you just now. God bless and thanks for letting us know your lovely Da.
magsos
Gerry,condolences on the passing of your dear Dad.some lovely memories you have of him.
lizmac
Hello Gerry,i am so sorry to hear about your father.I knew him many years ago,he was a lovely man.My father (Pat Neeson) and him were pals and my father thought a lot of him.Whenever i came home on holiday from the states,i would go into the hibs and your father would come and sit with us and have a laugh.nice,nice man.
Regards
Liz.
cumbie
i was reading your posts and i would like to first give my condolences on your loss. i was wondering what the "The Cumbie (from Cumberland Street, Gorbals)", is. i am from the u.s.
Michele
Hi Paul:
Its been a year since the last posting to your original. I hope you still check for responses.
Thank you for your history - it was interesting and informative. I too am working on family history and came upon my great-great-grandmother (Jane Paterson nee. Devine) who lived at 42 turner Street, Garngadhill. She was born about 1856-1858 and died in 1908 at that address. I came upon an old map povided in the questions section of this site that showed Charles Street and Garngad Road with four unmarked parallel streets in between. Thank you for filling in the blanks and showing me where my family once lived.
Sincerely, Michele McCann
Michele
...and I forgot to mention. I too have a relative by the name of Eliza McCormick. However, she married Daniel Cook and lived in the Govan area.
- Michele McCann
Paul Kelly
Thanks Michele.

The next time you visit Glasgow you should try and buy the 1894 Old Ordnance Survey map for St Rollox, Glasgow. The last time I was home in Glasgow - December 2005 - I bought the 1894 St Rollox map at the Mitchell Library. It is a very detailed map of the Garngad, north Townhead, Sighthill and Port Dundas areas of Glasgow in the late 1800s. The individual tenement buildings on streets such as Turner Street are clearly indicated. My McCormick/McCormack greatgreatgrandparents stayed at 32 Turner Street for many years in the late 1800s. I am sure they must have known your greatgreatgrandparents at 42 Turner Street.



Hi Cumbie.

You must be referring to post #37 of this topic. As far as I am aware, the Cumbie were a 1960s street gang from the Gorbals. They were named after Cumberland Street in the Gorbals.

Cumbie Ya Bass!! (Please don't ask me what this means, but this was once famous Glasgow graffiti)


Regards,

Paul
gerry mcdonald
QUOTE (lizmac @ 26th Feb 2007, 12:43 AM) *
Hello Gerry,i am so sorry to hear about your father.I knew him many years ago,he was a lovely man.My father (Pat Neeson) and him were pals and my father thought a lot of him.Whenever i came home on holiday from the states,i would go into the hibs and your father would come and sit with us and have a laugh.nice,nice man.
Regards
Liz.
gerry mcdonald
QUOTE (lizmac @ 26th Feb 2007, 12:43 AM) *
Hello Gerry,i am so sorry to hear about your father.I knew him many years ago,he was a lovely man.My father (Pat Neeson) and him were pals and my father thought a lot of him.Whenever i came home on holiday from the states,i would go into the hibs and your father would come and sit with us and have a laugh.nice,nice man.
Regards
Liz.
I knew your Da well he was something else. I worked beside him in the caley, no matter what mood you were in Pat Neeson could always tell you a story that would have you in stitches. I could tell you a load of stories about his war escapades.
keezy
soz bout yer da nevr new em dae u no wee benny mcphee or es boys davie an joe or elain brown or tam shannon
Paul Kelly
Hi Michele

http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/glasgow_2.html

In my last post I advised you to buy the 1894 Ordnance Survey Map for the St Rollox district of Glasgow. The above website address is for the 1894 Ordnance Survey Map for the whole of Glasgow and the St Rollox district is contained in it. If you zoom in you can see the streets of Garngad in 1894. Turner Street is clearly indicated on sheet VI.7.19

Paul
kathleenb
My name is Kathleen Brannan. I was born 1931 and lived in Bright st. I attended St Roch's.
My mother was Isa Brannan and Father John Brannan. I have a sister Betty and my brother John, like so many died during the War whilst serving in the Navy on the HMS
I have so many fond memories of those days in the tenements. Are there any other old folk like myself out there still.
This is a wonderful site and it is great to read about people from the Garangad, so many sites seem to be folk from the Gorbals or the East End but the Garangad was also a great community lets here more!
LETTY JARVIS
Hello Gerry,
I knew your Da all my life, I agree he was indeed a lovely man
Letty Jarvis (Mc Laughlin)
Oor Wullie
QUOTE (kathleenb @ 26th Apr 2007, 03:23 PM) *
My name is Kathleen Brannan. I was born 1931 and lived in Bright st.


My maternal grandmother was born in Bright Street in 1892.

I can't find it on the 1894 map of Glasgow.

Can anybody tell me where it is / was ?.
Java
Copied from Paul Kelly's starting post....

So where exactly are Turner Street and Villiers Street? Well, they no longer exist! The last time I was home in Glasgow, I purchased an 1894 map of the St Rollox (Townhead, Port Dundas and Garngad) district of Glasgow from the Mitchell library. In 1894, the northern part of Garngad consisted of 4 parallel streets, each running in a south to north direction. Starting from the west, the 4 streets were Turner Street, Villiers Street, Bright Street and Cobden Street. These 4 parallel streets were enclosed on the north by Charles Street and on the south by Garngad Road. Both Charles St and Garngad Road still exist today, though Garngad Road is now called Royston Road.
Oor Wullie
Many thanks to Paul Kelly [ via Java] for the information on Bright Street.
Gallusbisom
First day back for a while, and lo and behold this is the first topic that came up which is interesting because I just heard from a cousin that our Gran (nee Musgrove) her mother's name was Isabella McGinness and she married William Musgrove (Musgrave) in 1874 at St. John's Chapel, Portugal St. and that some of Gran's relatives lived in the area. Circa 1935-40 the only name we have is Edward or William McGinness. A cousin of Gran's perhaps? Very slight chance of this going anywhere but here's hoping. smile.gif
GB
Tommy Kennedy
Does anyone here know/remember the 'Kennedys' who lived at 31 Sandmill Street, Garangard - 1936/37/
Paul Kelly
Hi Gallusbisom,

St John's Chapel, Portugal Street was in the Gorbals, not the Garngad. It is easy to get the 2 Gs mixed up. I understand the church no longer exists.


Hi Wullie,

Zoom in on rectangular sheet VI.7.19 to see Bright Street, Garngad in 1894

http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/glasgow_2.html



Paul
penny dainty
Valros , just noticed with intrest that you remember Andersons Dairy in Earlston Avenue, it was actually owned by my Uncle Alec and Aunt Norah, do you remember much about it that you can tell me about as I was too young to remember much it when it was still there.
valros
Hello Penny Dainty,

I certainly do remember Anderston's dairy very well and was in it often, I lived in Rhymer Street which was off Earlston Avenue.
Alec and his wife were a nice couple, my cousin's wife actually worked in their shop for quite some time--she lived in Earlston Avenue too.

When the people were being re-housed, Alec moved his premises to Glebe Street across from the Royal Infirmary, they were there a good few years too.
I moved out of the area and didn't hear any more about them

Valros
penny dainty
I can remember the dairy in Glebe Street opposite the hospital, Mum took me there a couple of times when I was a child.Alec is long gone now and I have lost touch with Norah, she may be gone too, my brother still hears from their daughter Fiona .
valros
Hi Penny Dainty,

My cousin's wife and I were just talking about the dairy about a month or so ago, she did mention that Mrs Anderson has passed away.

Valros
AndyR1
[size="5"][/size]Hi again its been a while from I was last here, My family lived in Earlston Ave in the 30`s until the 50`s they also moved to glebe st too and had a shop there, the family had a dairy in Parly rd but Im not sure what the shop in glebe st was. Im still searching for any photos of Earlston Ave as of yet Ive had no luck. my family`s names are Reidford/ Clark/ Brown
valros
Andy R1 I've been looking for photos of Earlston Avenue myself. Try and find out what kind of shop it was in Glebe Street, my mother did a lot of shopping in Parliamentary Road.
I don't suppose you have by any chance--a photo of the Grafton Picture hall in Parly Road?

Valros
AndyR1
Sorry Valros I dont have a picture but this is the only thing I could find right now, I do know there are photos about of the picture house
AndyR1
The family shop in Glebe st as far as Ive been told was a tailors, something to do with the Clark/Brown side of the family, The shop in Parliamentary rd was a dairy/grocers again Im not sure what part of the road it was on or what it was called.
valros
Thanks for your reply Andy R1, if you ever find a picture of the Grafton will you let me know please--thanks.

There were so many different dairy/grocers in Parliamentary Road but if I knew the name it may come to mind. The tailors in Glebe Street does ring a bell--it's so long ago smile.gif

Valros
Lena
QUOTE (Oor Wullie @ 6th Jun 2007, 01:25 AM) *
My maternal grandmother was born in Bright Street in 1892.

I can't find it on the 1894 map of Glasgow.

Can anybody tell me where it is / was ?.



biggrin.gif Hi, my mother Margaret Cassidy, remembers a Kathy Brannan from the Garngard. She was born at 45 Villiers St. She said did you have a sister Betty and a brother John? She tells me her uncle Pat was married to your auntie Nellie. Pat was killed in WWI.

Cheers
Guest Maria *
#84 Andersons Dairy Earlston Avenue

I remember one day I was in the dairy & Carl Denver the country & western singer was in too see his aunty (I think she was the owner) There was a big blue American car outside, he was dressed in a pale blue cowboy style suit (Like the one's the Texan oil men wear) He also had on a big white cowboy hat on. The shop was so crowded as everyone wanted his autograph, he sang a song I can't remember the title, he also said that he knew Elvis & that he had stared along side him in Las Vagas...I don't know if that was true!!! My aunt Margaret stayed there before she moved to Pravanmill...then imigrated to Australia with her family...I think that Lena (last reply page 7 is my cousin as my grandmother was also born in Bright St.I think Turnner St or (Road) as it is now called is where the Costco's & Post Office depot is. I will check the next time I am round that way...I also knew Hugh Colins...I worked part time in the fish & chip shop Royston Rd just arround the corner from Earlston Av...I was 12yars old & also went to St Rochs Sec...I then went on to St Gerards in Govan...the headmaster @ St Rochs at the time was a Mr. Jameson my teachers name was Miss Gewer...her married name was Mrs O Neil.
Guest Maria *
QUOTE (valros @ 10th Jun 2007, 03:00 PM) *
Thanks for your reply Andy R1, if you ever find a picture of the Grafton will you let me know please--thanks.

There were so many different dairy/grocers in Parliamentary Road but if I knew the name it may come to mind. The tailors in Glebe Street does ring a bell--it's so long ago smile.gif

Valros

You will get a Photograph Book of the old Townhead from the Bargain Book Shop In the city centre...there is a photo copy of the Grafton Cinema & the Casino & many many more of that area.
penny dainty
Maria , I don't know if Andersons dairy had any other owners apart from my Aunt and Uncle , but I can assure you we had no country singers in our family famous or otherwise, unless he was related to one of the staff maybe.
Lena
biggrin.gif Hi, I lived at 45 Earlston Avenue until 1963 prior to moving to Provanmill. We later emigrated to Australia in 1969. So knowing all that information it does sound like you are my cousin Maria and I must say that I am pleased that I put that note on to Kathy Brennan.

Mum tells me that Karl Denver was in Glasgow to attend his ex wife's funeral and probably the reason he turned up at Anderson's Dairy. He was apparently married to Grace Boyle's sister from Rhymer St. Grace was our aunt Jane's pal.

My mum's cousins Betty Smith, Jean Smith and Winnie Keenan also lived in Earlston Ave with their families.

Hopefully now that we have found each other again Maria we can keep in touch. May somehow be able to exchange email addresses.
Guest Maria *
Reply to #96

Thank you for your added information on Karl Denver Lena...I am glad too, that we have found each other again 38 years is a long time. I would so much like to be able to keep in touch...I don't know how we are going to be able to exchange e-mail addresses...maybe we could meet up & do this?

Your mum (my aunt Margaret) is such a store of knowledge...give her my love.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
valros
I have been on holiday for the past week and got a surprise when I saw the posts that had been added.

Maria-- the book you talk about, is it called "The Old Townhead's a Goner" ? if so, I do have that one and it has photos of the Carlton and Casino in Castle Street, sadly a tramcar is in front of the Grafton and you can't see the picture hall


If you are talking about a different book will you let me know please?

Valros
valros
This post is to both Lena and Maria---first I would like to say how pleased I am to see you have discovered you are related--just great!!!

When I was at St Roch's Primary one of my close friends at school was a girl called Kathleen Cassidy and she lived in Villiers Street, I was in her house several times. We all called her Lena and I am wondering if you ladies are related to her?

On the subject of Anderson's dairy, I never knew anyone else other than Alec and his wife as owners of it.

I lived in Rhymer Street and saw Karl Denver on very many occasions as he married Jean Boyle who lived two closes from me. I was friendly with her younger sister Anne, I can remember Grace but not as well as the other sisters.

I don't know if you have exchanged e-mail addresses yet but one way is to become a member of Glasgow Guide and then send each other a PM with your e-mail address on it!!!
Hope you both keep posting as I love to hear from people who came from the area

Valros smile.gif
Lena
Hi Maria, both mum and I are looking forward to catching up after such a long time. I have become a member of the Glasgow Guide as suggested by Valros. Hopefully we can exchange email addresses through this forum otherwise we could set up a hotmail to do the exchange.

I apparently got it wrong about Karl Denver as it was his son's funeral he returned to attend and not his wife's. Apparently the child was killed in a traffic accident, I think it was on the Royston Rd but not sure.

Valros, Kathleen Cassidy was our aunt Lena. I am named after her. Lena died when she was only 21. My mum was happy to hear you remembered Lena as we often talk about her and her other siblings.

We have a big connection with the Garngad through our grandparents and their siblings and I am lucky that my mother has such a good memory and tells great stories of the Garngad and the characters that lived there. I should write it all down next time we get chatting. I read out some of the stuff on this site and other sites I have found and between her and my dad I find out lots of history. They both went to the Rock school (primary and secondary) and remember many of the teachers. I myself went to the Mungo primary, then the Mena and then Charlotte St as did my older sister (my Irish twin).

Valros, can you please explain how we exchange our emails through this site ie what is a PM?

Be back to visit soon.
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