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Kemedian
An avoidable power struggle has developed at the heart of Scottish Government. An ex-member of the SNP is not only contesting allegations of indecency, he is also actually contesting the whole reporting process.

In this high stakes episode of who dares wins, the party is split in support for these two leaders, current and former. The current is stressing her support for the two alleged victims of sexual harassment. The former is making a play for the support of the independence movement, in a series of social media statements that undermine and weaken his successor in the role of SNP leader.

The question of who will win can only be considered once it has been established just what this is really all about??

Some key excerpts from Alex Salmond's social media campaign:

QUOTE
It is therefore with great reluctance that I have today (Thursday 23rd August) launched a Judicial Review in the Court of Session which will decide the issue of the lawfullness of the procedure which has been used against me. If I lose then I will have to answer to the complaints both comprehensively and publically. Until then i am bound to say nothing which would impinge on the court proceedings.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexSalmond/stat...7502208/photo/2

QUOTE
I have been a member of the Scottish National Party for 45 years... I hope I have done the Party and the broader independence movement some service... But today I have written to the National Secretary of the Party resigning my membership... I would urge no one else to relinquish their SNP membership... I will continue to serve the independence movement in whatever role and whatever capacity I can... It is a rare thing to be devoted to a cause more important than any individual, it is a precious thing to cherish it and my intention now - as it always has been - is to protect and sustain that cause.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexSalmond/stat...4119681/photo/4
JAGZ1876
Wishful thinking Kem, don't believe the headlines, there is no split in the SNP.
JAGZ1876
With all the turmoil in the Blue and Red Unionist parties over the last two years and not a word from you. laugh.gif
JAGZ1876
Why are you so outraged at people freely giving to a crowdfund to challenge an obviously wrong piece of legislation Kem?

You would feel very different if it was you or a family member that was being accused of something and you weren't given any information about what you were being accused of or who was making the accusations.

Be honest Kem, you never bothered about the crowdfunding for legal expenses for the liar Carmichael or Green MSP Andy Wightman?

Just admit you hate Alex Salmond and even when he is cleared of any wrongdoing you'll still believe he's guilty as you have a personal agenda. yes.gif

Kemedian
There's no outrage on my part. But there is shock, which I think we all feel. The shock is compounded by Salmond's reaction, by taking his beloved Party to court and campaigning publically against it.

Let's wait for the outcome of the court proceedings, the police investigation and latterly the Party's due process.

QUOTE (SNP leader at Holyrood, Nicola Sturgeon)
The Scottish Government refutes his criticisms of its process and will defend its position vigorously.


QUOTE (SNP leader at Westminster, Ian Blackford)
There is strong support for the first minister and for the government, from parliamentarians and from party members... I’m sure the processes which have been put in place are absolutely fit for purpose.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 1st Sep 2018, 12:28pm) *
There's no outrage on my part. But there is shock, which I think we all feel. The shock is compounded by Salmond's reaction, by taking his beloved Party to court and campaigning publically against it.

Let's wait for the outcome of the court proceedings, the police investigation and latterly the Party's due process.


I don't think you speak for anyone but yourself and he isn't taking "his beloved party to court".

Take your own advice and wait and see.

I doubt you will though, you've been wetting yourself with excitement since you scuttled out from the woodwork. yes.gif
JAGZ1876
Where did you hear that police proceedings had started? unsure.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Sep 2018, 01:12pm) *
he isn't taking "his beloved party to court".

eyebrow.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Sep 2018, 01:29pm) *
Where did you hear that police proceedings had started? unsure.gif

https
://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish...-over-13129661
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 1st Sep 2018, 02:12pm) *



Then let them do their jobs and leave the pitchforks and torches in your cupboard for the time being.
Dykejumper
From The Gruniard

'Mr Salmond has made this affair far more explosive than it would otherwise have been. The accusations are, of course, very difficult for his party anyway. But he has decided to politicise the affair by turning himself into the victim. He has demanded support which Ms Sturgeon cannot possibly give while retaining credibility. He has fanned the flames of paranoia and conspiracy theorising that lurk in parts of his party. He has therefore put himself above his party and set the SNP on a course that could split it into pro- and anti-Salmond factions. His actions threaten to do lasting damage to the SNP and to the cause to which he has devoted his life.'

Never thought I could feel sorry for NS but the vainglorious former first monster has given her a
massive headache.
JAGZ1876
Wow DJ, a Britnat paper hoping for the SNP to split, dream on, save your sympathy for Theresa May, her Separatist party members Johnson, Gove, Rees Mogg, Davis etc really are giving her the Mother and Father massive headache of all time, why don't you concentrate on that mess that you've helped create that effects all our lives than waste your time on a manufactured mud throwing campaign designed to distract the hard of thinking?
Dykejumper
The hard of thinking have just donated 100k to a rather well off former SNP member.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 2nd Sep 2018, 12:08am) *
The hard of thinking have just donated 100k to a rather well off former SNP member.



You've ran out of straws to clutch DJ, how's Brexit coming along? yes.gif
Kemedian
There truly is an element of blind loyalty and of a bunker mentality exuding from this donorship. The whole world as they see it seems to be conspiring against their 'embattled' leader, from Westminster to Holyrood to the media to unionists and unfortunately to the genuine alleged victims.

I partly agree with you Jagz. This is indeed a lot of fuss, although you seem strangely certain that it's about nothing. In which case it will be the SNP, not Salmond, with many questions to answer.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 2nd Sep 2018, 02:24pm) *
There truly is an element of blind loyalty and of a bunker mentality exuding from this donorship. The whole world as they see it seems to be conspiring against their 'embattled' leader, from Westminster to Holyrood to the media to unionists and unfortunately to the genuine alleged victims.

I partly agree with you Jagz. This is indeed a lot of fuss, although you seem strangely certain that it's about nothing. In which case it will be the SNP, not Salmond, with many questions to answer.



Sorry to burst your bubble Kem, but there ain't gonna be a fight between Salmond and the SNP, i'd have thought you'd be more worried about your beloved union imploding? wink.gif

The civil servants work with Holyrood but are UK civil servants under the control of Westminster.

What happened to your "Let's wait for the outcome of the court proceedings, the police investigation and latterly the Party's due process" comment?
Kemedian
I've always admired your optimism Jagz. You may pour as much cold water on this story as you like and review it through your yellow-tinted glasses till your keyboard breaks. The trouble is, your Party isn't fending off unwanted attention from the usual sources we hear about.

The tense power struggle between the progressive and moderate camps of the SNP has been rudely exposed for all to see since Salmond took exception so very publically to the preliminary outcomes of the Permanent Secretary's investigation. The Political decline of the man was effectively complete, he had dropped out of Westminster and last I heard he is working for Russian television. But these recent allegations of misconduct while in office threaten to sully his highly successful career and internationaly renowned reputation. So, given that he has responded with all guns blazing and has chosen to exert the significant pressure of his own devotees from within the independence movement upon his reluctant yet duty bound discipliners heading the Party, you shouldn't really be overawed by the consequent general level of amazement expressed among his friends and foes alike.

We live in interesting times!
ashfield
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 2nd Sep 2018, 02:24pm) *
There truly is an element of blind loyalty and of a bunker mentality exuding from this donorship. The whole world as they see it seems to be conspiring against their 'embattled' leader, from Westminster to Holyrood to the media to unionists and unfortunately to the genuine alleged victims.

I partly agree with you Jagz. This is indeed a lot of fuss, although you seem strangely certain that it's about nothing. In which case it will be the SNP, not Salmond, with many questions to answer.


Sorry? Who is the “embattled” leader and what is a “ genuine alleged victim”? huh.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 2nd Sep 2018, 05:49pm) *
The tense power struggle between the progressive and moderate camps of the SNP has been rudely exposed for all to see

We live in interesting times!



I know i'd be better talking to a brick wall but here goes nothing.

Kem, there is no power struggles, splits, Civil war or any other nonsensical terms about the SNP (although the same can't be said of the London based parties of all hues) so will you please take your own advice and wait and see.

It really is nice to have you back on GG again but surely the state of the Union and your British parties should be taking up your time?

With just over two hundred days till Brexit there is lot's to discuss, as you say, "We live in interesting times".


Now if you'll excuse me i have to go up to the loft to get my Fife and Drum as my papers arrived earlier informing me that my Garnock Valley regiment are shipping out at dawn to confront General Sturgeons troops who are encamped at the River Cart.

Does anyone have a spare musket as i can't find mine anywhere? laugh.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (ashfield @ 2nd Sep 2018, 07:18pm) *
Sorry? Who is the “embattled” leader and what is a “ genuine alleged victim”? huh.gif



Typo. He meant "alleged genuine victims".
Kemedian
QUOTE (ashfield @ 2nd Sep 2018, 06:18pm) *
Sorry? Who is the “embattled” leader and what is a “ genuine alleged victim”? huh.gif

The first reference, well that's Salmond of course, whose donors still fancy that their deposed leader has a Political career ahead of him (should the vacancy arise).

The second, are the two most important people of all, who must feel belittled and greatly anguished by the backlash from the afforementioned accused (note his "patently ridiculous" comment) and his fanatics, some of whom have picked up his baton and sustained the criticism of the two alleged victims. As Sturgeon says, the complaints must be robustly handled regardless of the standing or clout of the person implicated.
JAGZ1876
rolleyes.gif So you lied when you said "Let's wait for the outcome of the court proceedings, the police investigation and latterly the Party's due process"?
Kemedian
Just passing the time, Jagz. smile.gif

One big question I have, which has nothing to do with the case specifically but concerns the immediate fallout for the SNP, which is what we're really discussing, is this:

When we have those loyal to Sturgeon coming out to support the investigative process saying that the Party is united, and when we have those loyal to Salmond saying the same thing, what are those with no allegiance (like myself) supposed to think and who do we believe?

My take on this glaring irregularity in these responses is that the leadership is saying one thing (at least publically when questioned) and the activists are saying another. This scandal has hit the central nervous system of the Party and there is no common narrative to be found. This is unchartered territory for everyone, so why should anyone expect the normally careful and orchestrated Party line in this instance? Would it have been at all like Salmond to keep his mouth shut and dignity intact?

Still the Party tries to cover up the mess, by all saying they're "united". But there can be more than one, there's Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Dundee, Sheffield...

From the outside it's an experience somewhat analagous to gazing at an imploding star, you know there's a lot more going on that isn't observable yet still you can't quite process the enormity unfolding behind the lens.

Back on Planet Earth however, there are two women who now need to be shielded from the glare that Salmond's retalliations have attracted. They should be reassured and supported through what would otherwise have been a difficult enough time for them.
JAGZ1876
Oh dear, DJ has grasped all the straws and left you with nothing clutch on to Kem.

Why do you not want to talk about the imploding Tory party as the Brexit mess rumbles along, and what about all the forty plus women that need to be shielded from all the Tory and British MP's?

Surely they should be reassured and supported through what would otherwise have been a difficult enough time for them?
Kemedian
Forget Angry Salmond's pink beret, this eclipses anything he has ever uttered, because this devastating revelation is aimed straight at him and that divisive crowdfund. There can be no denying the feud that has arisen between them now. For Nicola to come out with such a statement speaks volumes of her dislike for the course of action her old mentor has taken since the Party went public with the investigation. If Salmond's veiled threat of leading a rebellion sounds remarkable, if he succeeds in court what will Nicola do and where will she go!


Click to view attachment
QUOTE (She really said this)
I would not wish to be a citizen, let alone First Minister, in a country which placed any barriers in the way of women speaking out.
JAGZ1876
Who's stopping women speaking out?
Kemedian
Just in case you don't believe me Jagz...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scot...litics-45370101
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 10:28am) *
Just in case you don't believe me Jagz...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scot...litics-45370101


Read it twice and can't see anything about women being stopped from speaking out, could you highlight it for me?
Kemedian
Click to view attachment

Should've gone to specsavers.
JAGZ1876
So no one is actually stopping women from speaking out then? unsure.gif
Kemedian
It's Nicola you need to tell that to.

She said it, not me.

Why she did, is a matter for conjecture. To shut down your senses and ignore the current context of her remark, could however lead someone like your good self to fail to see the clear meaning behind her words.

You are backing Salmond, and I don't expect you to understand Nicola's point of view.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 01:39pm) *
It's Nicola you need to tell that to.

She said it, not me.

Why she did, is a matter for conjecture. To shut down your senses and ignore the current context of her remark, could however lead someone like your good self to fail to see the clear meaning behind her words.

You are backing Salmond, and I don't expect you to understand Nicola's point of view.



What are you talking about?

The question i asked is who is trying to stop women from speaking out?
bilbo.s
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Sep 2018, 02:53pm) *
What are you talking about?

The question i asked is who is trying to stop women from speaking out?


Jagz, we both learned long ago that Kerm may write in English, but his comprehension and interpretation of the written word are suspect, to say the least. Perhaps one should give him the benefit of the doubt and say he is deliberately twisting the words. There's a job awaiting him at Pacific Quay, as he seems to be at a loose end methinks.

Keep it up, though. This is better than Wimbledon with Ian Murray vs someone with a cricket bat.
Kemedian
Oh hi Bilbo.

You'd have to ask Nicola why she has made this remark, Jagz.

But since you're asking for my own thought, I'd say that Salmond is a man of his time and that his time - when women knew their limitations in a world dominated by men - is over.

Does it really come as a surprise to you, being the modern woman Nicola is, and living in the social climate where women's rights are so high on the agenda, that she is speaking out against Salmond's approach? Their powerful political partnership is in ruins, which spells deep trouble for the SNP.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 02:09pm) *
Oh hi Bilbo.

You'd have to ask Nicola why she has made this remark, Jagz.

But since you're asking for my own thought, I'd say that Salmond is a man of his time and that his time - when women knew their limitations in a world dominated by men - is over.

Does it really come as a surprise to you, being the modern woman Nicola is, and living in the social climate where women's rights are so high on the agenda, that she is speaking out against Salmond's approach? Their powerful political partnership is in ruins, which spells deep trouble for the SNP.



Complete and utter nonsense Kem, once again, the only political parties in deep trouble are your two main unionist parties.

The SNP are in so much trouble they've just overtake the Tories to become the UK's second largest political party. laugh.gif
Kemedian
You haven't said a single word in support of your Party leader's position on the matter.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 02:46pm) *
You haven't said a word in defence of your Party's leader.


What do i have to defend Nicola Sturgeon for? unsure.gif
Kemedian
There are two sides in court, you know, and you have reserved all your backing for Salmond.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 02:53pm) *
There are two sides in court, you know, and you have reserved all your backing for Salmond.


I have not reserved backing for anyone.

You are under the delusion that this is a battle between Salmond and Sturgeon.
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Sep 2018, 03:46pm) *
I have not reserved backing for anyone.

Yes you have, although you patently don't speak for all. laugh.gif
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 31st Aug 2018, 06:08pm) *
There is no split or taking sides in the party we're all behind Alex Salmond on this.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 04:02pm) *
Yes you have, although you patently don't speak for all. laugh.gif



As is Nicola.

Be honest Kem, this is all about your hatred for Alex Salmond and the SNP, you couldn't give a toss for the rights of women. yes.gif


If you did you'd be condemning the treatment of them at Westminster.
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Sep 2018, 04:49pm) *
As is Nicola.

Of course she's not. How could she either support his court challenge or take sides in the internal investigation. Salmond doesn't have the support of either of the Party's leaders, not at Holyrood or at Westminster (see the quotes in post #5).

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Sep 2018, 04:49pm) *
Be honest Kem, this is all about your hatred for Alex Salmond and the SNP, you couldn't give a toss for the rights of women. yes.gif

If you did you'd be condemning the treatment of them at Westminster.

You seem overly keen to bring up other issues. eyebrow.gif

And let's not personalise this.
wombat
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Sep 2018, 02:46pm) *
I have not reserved backing for anyone.

You are under the delusion that this is a battle between Salmond and Sturgeon.


rolleyes.gif crumbed or battered? rolleyes.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Sep 2018, 05:28pm) *
Of course she's not. How could she either support his court challenge or take sides in the internal investigation. Salmond doesn't have the support of either of the Party's leaders, not at Holyrood or at Westminster (see the quotes in post #5).


You seem overly keen to bring up other issues. eyebrow.gif

And let's not personalise this.



We'll see who's right and who's on who's side in due time.

You seem overly keen to ignore other issues that are far more serious than this one you want to go on about (even though you said "let's wait and see") you and other SNP haters are brimming with mock outrage for alleged victims but totally ignoring real live victims because it doesn't suit your agenda.

At least admit you're not interested in condemning the vile behaviour of the Unionist MP's who have already been named and shamed in the links i've provided not to mention the Paedophile MP's who seem to be above the law. yes.gif


JAGZ1876
Wow, Labour party members as well as trade union members will be crowdfunding Kezia's court defence whether they want to or not.

Kem and DJ will be outraged at this....Oh wait a minute....That's right, she's a fellow Unionist

Carry on, nothing to see here. laugh.gif

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1668577...efamation-case/
wombat
tongue.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQZxr1I9R9I wub.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (wombat @ 4th Sep 2018, 08:56pm) *



So it's not just white men that have no rhythm then? laugh.gif

She's a better dancer than she is a PM, and i never thought she'd do something as equally cringeworthy as her royal curtsy. unsure.gif
wombat
wacko.gif trying to drum up trade with former "colonies"is she serious? wacko.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 4th Sep 2018, 08:31pm) *
Wow, Labour party members as well as trade union members will be crowdfunding Kezia's court defence whether they want to or not.

Kem and DJ will be outraged at this....Oh wait a minute....That's right, she's a fellow Unionist

Carry on, nothing to see here. laugh.gif

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1668577...efamation-case/



Kem will just come out with some of his usual crap to accuse you of deflection from the SNP "problem", or maybe he won't, just to prove me wrong.


JAGZ1876
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 4th Sep 2018, 11:07pm) *
Kem will just come out with some of his usual crap to accuse you of deflection from the SNP "problem", or maybe he won't, just to prove me wrong.



If he has any sense he'll have scuttled back into the woodwork like the others who have an agenda and only come out when they think they can score cheap political points.

The hypocrisy and faux outrage of some people never fails to amaze me. yes.gif
Dykejumper
"The hypocrisy and faux outrage of some people never fails to amaze me."

Did you type that with a straight face ?
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