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Kemedian
QUOTE (Alex Salmond, SNP Foreign Affairs spokesman @ Westminster today)
When you propose a referendum it should be because you are proposing a change, you are proposing a significant constitutional change, whether it be for the alternative vote, or Scottish independence, or Scottish devolution or Welsh devolution, you are proposing a change and you are looking for democratic sanction, the sovereignty of the people to back your change. But that is not the position of the Prime Minister, nobody seriously believes that the Prime Minister wants to take this country out of the European Union, the referendum is a tactic.

53 SNP MPs today voted against holding a Referendum on EU membership (and lost), for reasons explained by the MP for Gordon above.

Didn't the SNP say it wants to give Scotland a stronger voice at Westminster?

I want my voice to be heard. I say, bring it on, and no to UK Independence!

The UKIP will be delighted, of course, because the Referendum will present it with a huge platform on which to get its message across. It will be hoping to replicate the rise of the SNP on the back of last year's Scottish Independence Referendum (probably more than realistically hoping to achieve anything near the 45% of electorate support won by Scotland's very popular Yes campaign).

Politics in Scotland is thriving due to our own Indy Ref. Shouldn't our 56 SNP MPs be in favour of keeping the ball rolling? Another healthy constitutional debate, this time about Britain's membership of the EU, is surely in the public interest! Scotland did, after all, vote to be a continuing member state of the UK. Yet, by voting against the Bill in Parliament today, it could be argued that the SNP wants to deny the people of the UK (including us) the chance to have their say, which by definition would be undemocratic.

I am unconvinced by the SNP argument against holding an EU Referendum and, in my opinion, today the 56 failed their first test. The Scottish Government won the right to hold the last one, and it's only right and fair that the British Government gets to hold this one.

We learned where we stand in the debate on Scottish independence, and that's an important reason why I'm in favour of having another in/out referendum on Britain's EU membership. While knowing where we stand doesn't end the debate, it does however allow us to move forward with greater certainty and confidence (providing, of course, the Government accepts the outcome and isn't intending to embark on a 'neverendum' until it wins, and democracy loses).
john.mcn
Salmond is right though, Cameron is offering a referendum but doesn't want the UK to leave. We are simply getting one because the Tories needed to take the thunder away from Farage and UKIP, it worked. People who may have been Tories but wanted out of the EU stuck with Cameron.
Labour have now 180'ed because they are bricking it.
The SNP didn't fail their first(???) test they passed with flying colours, they were against it prior to the election and are still against it, sticking to their guns or shock horror, their election manifesto is why they are popular and why your party who flips theirs for power is not...
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 10th Jun 2015, 01:05am) *
why they are popular and why your party who flips theirs for power is not

Why do you insist on associating me with a particular Party, when I hold no Political allegiance whatsoever. I am simply a voter who makes up his mind at every election depending on what's being said by each Party.

Salmond accuses Cameron of using the EU Ref as a tactic, and regarding this point you are failing to make I accuse you of the same. dry.gif
flam
I am with the SNP we must stay in EUROPE
Betsy2009
Shame we couldn't just go back to the Common Market / Free Trade.
Kemedian
QUOTE (flam @ 10th Jun 2015, 10:36am) *
I am with the SNP we must stay in EUROPE

So you're against having a referendum, Flam?

I'd be interested in a poll of members on this very question:


'Are you for or against holding an EU referendum?'


Perhaps someone else could set up that poll, as I don't know how to? GG ? unsure.gif
carmella
I have always said that I did not want to be 'in Europe', actually, what I really mean is that I don't mind being in Europe, but what I resent is that it is Europe who tell us what to do, what to sell, and under what conditions. I don't want them to add their 2c worth into our legal decisions.

In other words, none of this was done when we were part of the Common Market, so I want out if it means staying under the present conditions, there is much I dislike about it. We can still trade with Europe as we did in the past.

We should be left to make our own decisions in these islands that are the United Kingdom.
DannyH
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 10th Jun 2015, 10:47am) *
Shame we couldn't just go back to the Common Market / Free Trade.



Hello Betsy

I agree with you entirely. The problem now is that many UK politicians see the European Union as another step up on the career ladder for themselves. I have lost count of the number of times I have read press reports, that former Westminster politicians have been given an unelected position in the EU, giving them a lucrative salary with expenses, all as a show of appreciation for the work they have done on behalf of their UK political party.

We can hardly expect Alex Salmond to go to the House Of Lords and save face, can we. However a few years down the line when he is suceeded by younger SNP politicians, Brussells will be a nice wee sideline. Neil Kinnock will be able to give him advice on how to make the most out of this 'little earner'. It is funny (but not funny Ha Ha) how an organisation that holds so much power, is full of has-been politicians.

Potugal, Italy, Spain and Greece all shining examples of why we should be in Europe. Countries that were formerly behind the Iron Curtain now forming a significant part of the EU. Turkey wanting to come in. The Ukraine been torn apart because some of their politicians want to be part of the EU.
You know Betsy, the more I ramble on, the more I agree with the one simple sentence you have posted. Well done!

Regards

Danny
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Jun 2015, 12:20am) *
Why do you insist on associating me with a particular Party, when I hold no Political allegiance whatsoever. I am simply a voter who makes up his mind at every election depending on what's being said by each Party.

Salmond accuses Cameron of using the EU Ref as a tactic, and regarding this point you are failing to make I accuse you of the same. dry.gif


During the ref you insisted you were an SNP supporter but wanted to keep the union. In the run up to the election you were either for Labour or the Snp only to then come out of the broom cupboard to say you were Libdem. They couldn't hold onto their support never mind attract so called 'new voters' so you'll have to forgive me for doubting that you chose them at the last minute despite them refusing to work with the SNP (something that you say you dropped Labour for).
Now here you are criticising the SNP for having the audacity for actually following through on their election manifesto by voting against the EU bill going through parliament. It was right there in black and white for anyone to see and the people responded by sending 56 down to Westminster, if anything they should be commended for sticking to their guns.
Now bear in mind i am actually for EU change and if it doesn't then i will be putting my mark against the 'get me the hell outa here' box so my view goes against the SNPs but i would have been disappointed with them if they voted for the EU referendum when they were against it in the run up to the election, other parties it seems have no qualms about doing so though.
Tally Rand
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Jun 2015, 11:35pm) *
53 SNP MPs today voted against holding a Referendum on EU membership (and lost), for reasons explained by the MP for Gordon above.

Didn't the SNP say it wants to give Scotland a stronger voice at Westminster?

I want my voice to be heard. I say, bring it on, and no to UK Independence!

The UKIP will be delighted, of course, because the Referendum will present it with a huge platform on which to get its message across. It will be hoping to replicate the rise of the SNP on the back of last year's Scottish Independence Referendum (probably more than realistically hoping to achieve anything near the 45% of electorate support won by Scotland's very popular Yes campaign).

Politics in Scotland is thriving due to our own Indy Ref. Shouldn't our 56 SNP MPs be in favour of keeping the ball rolling? Another healthy constitutional debate, this time about Britain's membership of the EU, is surely in the public interest! Scotland did, after all, vote to be a continuing member state of the UK. Yet, by voting against the Bill in Parliament today, it could be argued that the SNP wants to deny the people of the UK (including us) the chance to have their say, which by definition would be undemocratic.

I am unconvinced by the SNP argument against holding an EU Referendum and, in my opinion, today the 56 failed their first test. The Scottish Government won the right to hold the last one, and it's only right and fair that the British Government gets to hold this one.

We learned where we stand in the debate on Scottish independence, and that's an important reason why I'm in favour of having another in/out referendum on Britain's EU membership. While knowing where we stand doesn't end the debate, it does however allow us to move forward with greater certainty and confidence (providing, of course, the Government accepts the outcome and isn't intending to embark on a 'neverendum' until it wins, and democracy loses).

Nothing was settled in a final sense by the "Loyal and true to the Red White and Blue brigade" 5%ers.

They voted in fear of loosing their darling queen and having a takeover of Scotland by the Vatican.
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 10th Jun 2015, 11:46pm) *
I am actually for EU change and if it doesn't then i will be putting my mark against the 'get me the hell outa here' box so my view goes against the SNPs but i would have been disappointed with them if they voted for the EU referendum when they were against it in the run up to the election, other parties it seems have no qualms about doing so though.

I'd like to find out the spread of support/opposition on GG for the SNP's opposition (surprise, surprise) to the Government's proposed EU referendum, but somehow the board isn't allowing me to set up a poll.

Would you mind arranging the poll, while the issue remains live, because it would add to this debate?

Going by the replies above, I'm not sure but I think the score is currently 5 in favour to 2 againstholding a referendum.
Betsy2009
Well I'm in favour of holding a referendum but fear that it's just a very expensive PR exercise. Big business (including politicians who have fingers in several pies) won't let the UK leave the EU.
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 11th Jun 2015, 10:06am) *
I'd like to find out the spread of support/opposition on GG for the SNP's opposition (surprise, surprise) to the Government's proposed EU referendum, but somehow the board isn't allowing me to set up a poll.

Would you mind arranging the poll, while the issue remains live, because it would add to this debate?

Going by the replies above, I'm not sure but I think the score is currently 5 in favour to 2 againstholding a referendum.



Why do you want to know if people agree with the SNP or not? It was in their manifesto so no one should complain that they did what they said they would do, labour were against having one but come the vote voted for it, so if there's to be any poll it should be asking if people who voted for Labour were miffed they reneged on their manifesto within a month of the election. I have no idea what was in the LibDems manifesto but we all know it's not worth the paper it's printed on anyway.
JAGZ1876
There is no point in using facts to reason with kem John, best if he commissioned his own doorstep poll, i'd love to hear some of the comments he'd get. laugh.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 11th Jun 2015, 06:15pm) *
There is no point in using facts to reason with kem John, best if he commissioned his own doorstep poll, i'd love to hear some of the comments he'd get. laugh.gif

Perhaps I'd get a mixed response, although I'm not too sure what you're getting at.

As for John's quibble, as we know the SNP now represent/ speak for nearly the whole of Scotland at Westminster, which it seems is taking some supporters time to get used to. Going just by the replies so far, it does not appear however that the people of Scotland speak with one voice on the issue of whether or not to have a referendum. This is an undeniable challenge for the 56 SNP MPs, to effectively act on behalf of Scotland as a whole.

I would be interested in getting an indication of where Scottish opinion sits on the matter, by way of a poll on here. So, if you're reading this Mr Moderator (since I am also unable to use other board functions including private messaging, as I have been for some time), could you help by setting one up (or by enabling me to do so) ?
john.mcn


Kem it matters not whether you say they speak for the whole of Scotland or not, they are following through on their manifesto by voting against an EU referendum. They talked about it plenty of times before the election so i dont quite get why you seem surprised or want to 'debate' the issue, they said they'd do it, people voted for them, they did it...end of story..
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 11th Jun 2015, 09:40pm) *
it does not appear however that the people of Scotland speak with one voice on the issue of whether or not to have a referendum.


This may come as a bit of a shock to you but Scotland (nor any other country) has never spoken with "one voice" on any issue.
bilbo.s
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 12th Jun 2015, 11:21am) *
This may come as a bit of a shock to you but Scotland (nor any other country) has never spoken with "one voice" on any issue.



Has Kemedian been hearing voices again? rolleyes.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 12th Jun 2015, 10:21am) *
This may come as a bit of a shock to you but Scotland (nor any other country) has never spoken with "one voice" on any issue.

Hence, John's point about the debate makes no sense...

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 12th Jun 2015, 01:25am) *
I dont quite get why you want to 'debate' the issue, they said they'd do it, people voted for them, they did it...end of story.

I listened to our MP for Ochil & South Perthshire last night on the telly and, while I agree with her statement below, I can't see why her Party is trying to deny us all the chance to vote, on such a big issue that should matter to everyone.

Click to view attachment
ashfield
Not sure why but this cartoon just came to mind

Click to view attachment
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 12th Jun 2015, 02:57pm) *
Hence, John's point about the debate makes no sense...


I listened to our MP for Ochil & South Perthshire last night on the telly and, while I agree with her statement below, I can't see why her Party is trying to deny us all the chance to vote, on such a big issue that should matter to everyone.




Kem it really is simple, if you want a say on SNP policy then join them, if you dont like their policies then dont vote for them. You are neither a member of the SNP or voted for them so you can hardly bitch about what they said they would do if people voted for them. Again it was in their manifesto and they have a record of at least trying to stick to it so it should come as no surprise that they actually did what they said they would do. i know it's shocking in this day and age of political parties campaigning on an issue and once in a coalition doing the complete opposite but you'll just have to accept that the SNP are the political equivalent of Ronseal, they do exactly what it says in the manifesto.

Oh and the MP for Ochil & South Perthshire is not 'our', 'your' or 'my' MP, she represents people from her constituency not Renfrewshire east, North Lanarkshire or anywhere else.
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 12th Jun 2015, 04:44pm) *
it was in their manifesto... they do exactly what it says in the manifesto.

I never said it wasn't. But we can still disagree, right???

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 12th Jun 2015, 04:44pm) *
Oh and the MP for Ochil & South Perthshire is not 'our', 'your' or 'my' MP, she represents people from her constituency not Renfrewshire east, North Lanarkshire or anywhere else.

Sheesh! huh.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (ashfield @ 12th Jun 2015, 04:35pm) *
Not sure why but this cartoon just came to mind

Click to view attachment


Spot on Ash. laugh.gif
Kemedian
Same to you, Ashfield, and anyone else who jumps in.

Is this what you get online for disagreeing with the SNP nowadays?
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 12th Jun 2015, 04:18pm) *
I never said it wasn't. But we can still disagree, right???

Disagree about what exactly, do you disagree that the SNP are doing what they said they would do? Should they have about turned on what they said they would do when people voted for them, i say that if they did you would have a problem with that as well. What you have done is started an EU ref which is nothing more than an anti SNP rant, that is your tactic and it is as clear as water from the tap
QUOTE
.

Sheesh! huh.gif



You say she is 'our' mp but it is 'her' party. How can she be our mp when we dont reside in her constituency but you stop short at association with the SNP, going by your logic then surely if she is 'our' MP then the SNP is also our party.
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 12th Jun 2015, 04:28pm) *
Same to you, Ashfield, and anyone else who jumps in.

Is this what you get online for disagreeing with the SNP nowadays?


Disagree with them by all means but at least try to have a coherent argument, saying the SNP failed their first test when in fact they did exactly what they said they would do is bordering on the type of crap coming from the morons in fleet street.
Kemedian
It's the policy that I'm calling out, John. You'll find my argument, if you wish to debate it, in my original post.

Yes, it's about the SNP - now Scotland's voice at Westminster - which has turned coat and now stands in the way of this referendum. And before you repeat yourself again, last year's referendum was the best thing that's ever happened to the Party. Plus, it stands a very good chance of being on the winning side this time. So, what's it got to lose?

The Party should be prepared to engage in this and any important referenda and should not, in my opinion, make policy to avoid doing so. I doubt whether this particular policy had too much of a bearing on the Scottish electorate's choice anyway, so to argue that Scots are against having another referendum on this basis (when you are in favour yourself) is questionable; for which reason I am proposing a poll of GG members.
ashfield
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 12th Jun 2015, 05:28pm) *
Same to you, Ashfield, and anyone else who jumps in.

Is this what you get online for disagreeing with the SNP nowadays?

Oh did you recognise yourself without me offering a name rolleyes.gif

Perhaps you could try dropping the yah, boo, hiss argumentitive style in your posts unsure.gif
john.mcn
IRT Kem

What they've got to lose is their credibility, campaign on one thing and do a complete U turn within weeks is best left to other parties.

I never said anything about the people in Scotland being against a EU referendum or not.
Betsy2009
Surely when you vote for a party it's because you agree with most of what they stand for. It doesn't mean that you agree with everything they stand for. So there could be many Scots who don't want to stay in the EU but it was only one issue that they didn't agree with when they voted for the SNP. Therefore, all Scots should be entitled to vote in the referendum.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 13th Jun 2015, 11:36am) *
all Scots should be entitled to vote in the referendum.

All Scots who are eligible to vote will be entitled to vote in an EU referendum Betsy.
Betsy2009
...but if the RUK vote out and we vote in aren't we back to where we started?
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 13th Jun 2015, 09:13am) *
IRT Kem

What they've got to lose is their credibility, campaign on one thing and do a complete U turn within weeks is best left to other parties.

I never said anything about the people in Scotland being against a EU referendum or not.

I meant (as you well know) what have they got to lose by engaging in the referendum? Why have the policy in the first place?

By constantly reminding me of the policy's place in the election manifesto, aren't you implying that the Party is giving its voters what they want? If not - it would be awfully presumptuous of you, not to mention daft* - then quit avoiding the above question with a non-answer.

* I can think of only one policy that could safely be said to command the widespread support of SNP voters
Betsy2009

"Britain’s farmers often complain bitterly about the bureaucratic nightmare that is the common agricultural policy. But up and down the country it is the possibility that the UK might leave the EU – the source of their hefty subsidies and abundant seasonal labour from eastern Europe – that is keeping many of them awake at night.

“It is terrifying,” says David Long, who farms near Rochester in Kent. “Terrifying in several different ways.”

Long, a leading light in the National Farmers’ Union (NFU), tends 1,500 acres, many of which are given over to strawberries and pears. He uses the latest technology to boost production where he can, but he needs human hands to pick and pack his fruit, and the only place he can find them is in eastern Europe. Now, as the strawberries ripen, he is employing 65 eastern Europeans, mainly from Romania and Bulgaria.

“It is not easy to find British people to do it,” he says. “The eastern Europeans are brilliant workers. If we were not able to employ them because the rules were tightened, or because we left the EU, it is difficult to see how we could operate.”

That is just part of the worry. The other fear that farmers such as Long have is the loss of their subsidies if the UK was no longer part of the CAP.

Gone, suddenly, would be the cheques from Brussels that make up most of their income. In 2012 CAP money accounted for 68% of this country’s total farming income. “Without the CAP, British farmers would be bust,” he says. In a recent submission to the government , the NFU said: “For many farmers CAP support remains incredibly significant"

Please note:
"It is no cheaper to employ eastern Europeans than British workers. It is just that they are there and are willing. They are crucial to the rural economy. His strawberry pickers, like Flori Balace, 26, from Romania, who is working on the farm with her husband and sister and says she can earn 500 a week in peak season, are content in their work. “I enjoy it here,” she says. “The life is good and the money is good. I want to use the money to buy a big house back home.”"

If the costs to the farmer to up then you'll probably be paying 10 for a punnet of stawberries!

Interesting comment from Glasgow lady, Sandra Forrester.

john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 13th Jun 2015, 11:09pm) *
I meant (as you well know) what have they got to lose by engaging in the referendum? Why have the policy in the first place?

Kem i have absolutely no idea what you mean half the time as you flip flop through your posts.
Who said they wont be engaging, they are a pro EU party who will argue that the UK should remeain in the EU.
Why have the policy in the first place?....Wow i feel like i'm talking to an 8 year old about politics, if you truly dont get democratic parties then i feel the tax payers hard work was wasted putting you through your 'free' higher education.

QUOTE
By constantly reminding me of the policy's place in the election manifesto, aren't you implying that the Party is giving its voters what they want? If not - it would be awfully presumptuous of you, not to mention daft* - then quit avoiding the above question with a non-answer.

* I can think of only one policy that could safely be said to command the widespread support of SNP voters


Kem there is no 'implying' at all in my post, you are just reading what you want to see because yet again you really dont have a point other that trying to discredit the SNP.
You dont support the SNP, you are not a member of the SNP but you seem to have this chip on your shoulder when they do what they said they would do. Around 50% of voters backed the SNP at the election(twice as many as it's nearest 'rival') yet here we have a LibDem voter annoyed with how the party voted in Westminster, weren't the LibDems against an In-out referendum, how did they vote in Westminster?
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Jun 2015, 09:49am) *
Who said they wont be engaging, they are a pro EU party who will argue that the UK should remeain in the EU.

Why have the policy in the first place?....Wow i feel like i'm talking to an 8 year old about politics, if you truly dont get democratic parties then i feel the tax payers hard work was wasted putting you through your 'free' higher education.

... weren't the LibDems against an In-out referendum, how did they vote in Westminster?

They will have to engage, but against their will.

Another complete non-answer.

The SNP stood alone, like rebels without a cause.

...Why won't you debate this point, since, to disagree with the policy yourself, you must have given it some thought?? You have strangely contributed nothing to this debate so far, other than to robotically repeat your manifesto point and to deride me for having such a nerve as to pose the question, which you are refusing to discuss. eyebrow.gif
john.mcn


Discuss what exactly, we are having a referendum because the Tories promised one in their manifesto, the SNP had it in their manifesto they would vote against it but they were outnumbered. What on earth is to discuss?
Kemedian
What's to discuss, you ask???

Just the prospect of the UK leaving the EU!!!

(Oh, and the policy of our MPs to vote against having a referendum. ohmy.gif)

Your only response seems to say that if it's in the manifesto, it's not up for debate.
john.mcn


Then discuss the prospect of the UK leaving. Do you see anyone else bothered that a party whose manifesto stated they were against a EU referendum did what they said they would do ? I'm more concerned that parties who were against it about turned and voted for it, they effectively lied to the people who voted for them.
It's a free forum so feel free to discuss with yourself that a party you're neither a member of or voted for did what they said they would do. We're getting a referendum but you're still not happy because the SNP dont agree with your views.
Will you be on here bitching when they vote against further cuts to public spending or against trident renewal?
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Jun 2015, 10:27pm) *
Then discuss the prospect of the UK leaving.

'But don't dare discuss the SNP policy!', you say.

All in good time. The SNP are still in the process of opposing the Bill, as it inevitably becomes law.

Heroic act, or futile gesture? A matter of principle, or game of tactics?

I'm not asking why carry out their manifesto pledge, I'm really, really not.

I'm asking: Why rebel? Because... huh.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Jun 2015, 10:51pm) *
Discuss what exactly, we are having a referendum because the Tories promised one in their manifesto, the SNP had it in their manifesto they would vote against it but they were outnumbered. What on earth is to discuss?


John, You must know by now, as most of us do, that Kemedian has the logic of an over-fried tottie scone.

I have set my preference to ignore his gibberish, but unfortunately I still have to suffer, when you quote him.
Kemedian
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 14th Jun 2015, 11:23pm) *
John, You must know by now, as most of us do, that Kemedian has the logic of an over-fried tottie scone.

Or perhaps, just a differing point of view. ohmy.gif

What's yours?
wombat
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 14th Jun 2015, 10:23pm) *
I have set my preference to ignore his gibberish, but unfortunately I still have to suffer, when you quote him.



tongue.gif me no sayin nuttin tongue.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (Alex Salmond, SNP foreign affairs spokesman @ 1st June, 2015)
It is essential we have a distinctly strong Scottish voice in the EU referendum – and that is exactly what the SNP will bring – a campaign that focuses on a positive agenda about Scotland’s role and place in the EU.


Then why vote against it, 10 days later?

Can anyone help John explain that pointless policy decision?
john.mcn
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 14th Jun 2015, 10:23pm) *
John, You must know by now, as most of us do, that Kemedian has the logic of an over-fried tottie scone.

I have set my preference to ignore his gibberish, but unfortunately I still have to suffer, when you quote him.


I'll do my best to try to limit your exposure to his incoherent ramblings by not quoting anymore posts, starting right here in this thread. I think i made my point quite clear so i'll leave him to argue with himself, at least that way he's arguing with someone of similar intellect wink.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 15th Jun 2015, 11:12pm) *
I'll do my best to try to limit your exposure to his incoherent ramblings by not quoting anymore posts, starting right here in this thread. I think i made my point quite clear so i'll leave him to argue with himself, at least that way he's arguing with someone of similar intellect wink.gif



Much appreciated, John. Now I just have to persuade KTV and it should be sorted. biggrin.gif
ktv
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 15th Jun 2015, 10:12pm) *
I think i made my point quite clear so i'll leave him to argue with himself, at least that way he's arguing with someone of similar intellect wink.gif


you'll only leave a vacuum that no knowledge can escape/enter wacko.gif

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 15th Jun 2015, 10:40pm) *
Much appreciated, John. Now I just have to persuade KTV and it should be sorted. biggrin.gif


I have also (nearly) given up talking to a spatial roundabout myself laugh.gif
Kemedian
Is the whole SNP manifesto not up for discussion on here???

It's on the manifesto, so it must be right?

Anyone who thinks otherwise can be insulted and shut out?

Get real, bilbo and ktv. At least John and I can agree to disagree. You guys show far too little respect on here, at times to the detriment of the board, in my opinion.
ktv
respect is earned not granted and your opinion changes from day to day so maybe you should "get real" yes.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (ktv @ 16th Jun 2015, 04:28pm) *
respect is earned not granted and your opinion changes from day to day so maybe you should "get real" yes.gif

So you say.

Tell me, how could I ever earn your respect? By toeing the Party line, perhaps?

I do not seek anyone's respect, although I do hope to be given it in return for showing it.

If you and Bilbo have nothing to add to the discussion, then why post at all? Just to insult me?

No, you get real.
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