Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit
Glasgow Boards/Forums > GG Discussions > Other Discussions
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82
Betsy2009
When you say 'British' you mean the UK, don't you?
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 28th Mar 2016, 12:24pm) *
Your second mistake is to consistently confuse the Scottish Indyref with the British one. You try to bring everything back to the old debate. I'm not criticising, just observing.

Well, which side of the fence have you landed?

By the way, I'm NOT in favour of British independence, in case you haven't noticed.


I just had to quote this and point out that you continue to go on about the Scottish indy referendum laugh.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 28th Mar 2016, 12:36pm) *
When you say 'British' you mean the UK, don't you?

Oh jings! Have I left that floundering Jagz some wriggle room? laugh.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 28th Mar 2016, 12:53pm) *
I just had to quote this and point out that you continue to go on about the Scottish indy referendum laugh.gif

Yes, but only to draw an emphatic conclusion to something I put a lot into.

I reckon that the independence date was a sobering moment for the old Scottish Yes campaign.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 28th Mar 2016, 02:01pm) *
I reckon that the independence date was a sobering moment for the old Scottish Yes campaign.


Not for the first time you reckon wrong. yes.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 26th Mar 2016, 11:00pm) *
I'm not sitting on a fence, I know exactly how I'm going to vote. yes.gif

What's up, cat got your tongue or perhaps you never intended to reveal your u-turn, after openly supporting the SNP position on Europe throughout the last referendum, when you were so positive that a Yes vote would keep us united?
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 29th Mar 2016, 09:19am) *
What's up, cat got your tongue or perhaps you never intended to reveal your u-turn, after openly supporting the SNP position on Europe throughout the last referendum, when you were so positive that a Yes vote would keep us united?


I never said that i had done a u turn, and never said i supported the "SNP's position in Europe" i knew a YES vote would not see Scotland "booted out of the EU" as the British Nationalists claimed.
Kemedian
You never said how you're going to vote at THIS referendum. laugh.gif

This exchange began with you doubting my national pride. Forgive me, if I now doubt your reported Damascene conversion until you reveal this secret matter of apparent national security.

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 25th Mar 2016, 07:23pm) *
Kems weather watch...

On the very same day when I magically predicted rain in Scotland, you wrote this. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 20th Jun 2014, 03:37pm) *
If you want Scotland to remain in Europe then it has to be a YES vote.
Betsy2009
Anyone want a LEAVE.EU t-shirt?
You can get them here for only 9.99 plus 3.30 postage.

www.leave.eu/shop

They are also looking for donation and suggest a 30 donation or what you can afford.

So if you want to put your money where your mouth is ....


PS: Got this from a letter that came in the post this morning. Did everyone else get one too?
ktv
"turning your back on the EU" is a great description to be fair.

just like how theyre turning their backs on the millions of needy fleeing isis/wars etc
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 29th Mar 2016, 12:35pm) *
You never said how you're going to vote at THIS referendum. laugh.gif

This exchange began with you doubting my national pride. Forgive me, if I now doubt your reported Damascene conversion until you reveal this secret matter of apparent national security.


On the very same day when I magically predicted rain in Scotland, you wrote this. rolleyes.gif


I've told you i am still weighing up the pros and cons of both side (why is that difficult for you to understand?) and i have never doubted your "national pride" and your weather prediction skills would be better suited for a weather thread.
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Mar 2016, 12:42pm) *
I've told you i am still weighing up the pros and cons of both side (why is that difficult for you to understand?).
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 26th Mar 2016, 11:00pm) *
I'm not sitting on a fence, i know exactly how i'm going to vote. yes.gif



QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Mar 2016, 12:42pm) *
I have never doubted your "national pride".
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Mar 2016, 08:28am) *
Does calling yourself a "proud Scot" make you feel superior to the rest of us and what exactly is it you're proud of?
Kemedian
Might want to engage brain before hitting keyboard.

Three strikes and you're out, Jagz! wink.gif
wombat
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 29th Mar 2016, 01:33pm) *
Might want to engage brain before hitting keyboard.


rolleyes.gif so whats your excuse kerm ? laugh.gif laugh.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (wombat @ 29th Mar 2016, 10:03pm) *
rolleyes.gif so whats your excuse kerm ? laugh.gif laugh.gif

Looks like we'll have to wait a bit longer for Jagz to pronounce what's best for Scotland. How arrogant is that?

He is so fixated on Scottish Independence, he can think about nothing else. Yet he could attempt an argument and prove me wrong.

Not saying I'm either clever or right, Wombat, but at least there's a point to my posts.

There's more chance of you reciting God Save the Queen than Jagz bothering with this referendum, but at least you make your views clear. biggrin.gif
john.mcn
You dont have a right to know what everyones voting.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 29th Mar 2016, 02:33pm) *
Might want to engage brain before hitting keyboard.


Shame you don't take your own advice. laugh.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 29th Mar 2016, 11:11pm) *
He is so fixated on Scottish Independence, he can think about nothing else.


You mention a second referendum every other day, it's you who's fixated. yes.gif
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Mar 2016, 09:15am) *
You mention a second referendum every other day, it's you who's fixated. yes.gif


I have noticed that also.
Betsy2009
laugh.gif

More than 30,000 people support call to ban David Cameron from returning to UK from holiday

Turbulence in the Tory ranks may be fast dropping down the list of David Cameron's concerns, as a petition to ban him from re-entering the UK has attracted more than 30,000 signatures. The prime minister is currently in Lanzarote for the Easter break and has faced criticism for jetting off to the Canary Islands while urging Brits to holiday in the north of England.

The online petition was launched by Kerry-anne Mendoza, an independent journalist and former NHS consultant from Farnborough. It reads: "David Cameron presents a clear and present danger to the short, medium and long term interests of the country. As such, the UK should institute a temporary ban on his return to Britain at the conclusion of his holiday in Lanzarote."
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 30th Mar 2016, 01:26am) *
You dont have a right to know what everyones voting.

I know, I know.

However, Jagz is a Political animal! I find his dithering most unlikely. It's an obvious ploy. He is SNP through-and-through and his tacit indifference is more than coincidental. The SNP doesn't see the need for this referendum and is taking victory in Scotland for granted. Compare its two referendum campaigns for a minute. Don't expect fireworks from the Party or a word in anger from Mr SNP. This debate to them is a sideshow. They have no intention of leaving the EU, but every intention of leaving the UK. SNP support for the EU is like elves arguing for Christmas. Take that away, and their whole scheme collapses.
Dykejumper
That would make Cameron stateless, he would then appeal under The Human Rights Acts and be
allowed back in. This is the reason why The Govt cannot stop Jihadis returning to the UK from Syria.
Betsy2009
Wouldn't he first have to prove that he was human?
ktv
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 30th Mar 2016, 10:29am) *
That would make Cameron stateless, he would then appeal under The Human Rights Acts and be
allowed back in. This is the reason why The Govt cannot stop Jihadis returning to the UK from Syria.


if we leave the EU the human rights act in the UK will be no more.

problem solved.
GG
QUOTE
EU Ref: Government to spend 9m on leaflets to every home

The government is spending more than 9m on sending a leaflet to every UK household setting out the case for remaining in the European Union.

The 14-page document, to be sent to 27 million homes, is designed to respond to public demand for more details about the EU referendum by setting out the facts behind the government's position.

Leave campaigners reacted with fury.

Boris Johnson said it was wrong to try to "stampede" voters while Nigel Farage said the document was "full of lies".

UKIP leader Mr Farage said the exercise was a "scam" and reinforced his view that the EU referendum on 23 June would be "defined by the battle of the people against the political elite". [...]

Full story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35980571

GG.
Betsy2009
I hope you all enjoy the leaflet when it comes. After all, you paid for it.
Kemedian
I believe that in 2014 the whole of the UK would have voted to remain united.

If we vote to remain united this June then, besides the many other valid issues being debated, for me it would principally be because of the single rationale leading us to decide that ultimate power is more safely wielded by many hands not by few.

The UK for me is changing for the better. Not quickly enough for some people, but undeniably. This is my preference, rather than the false dawn of independence.

The old Scottish Yes campaign of 2014 - now by its own admission utterly defeated - tried and very nearly contrived to convince enough of us that it's not better to be together. What a message to begin with! I sincerely hope that at the heart of it's revised argument set to be announced in the SNP election manifesto there is not another planned assault on togetherness.

The key to unity - taking the UK as a good example - is apparently the subsequent devolution of power by the many to the localities they represent.

The difference between the progression (as I view it) of the current UK and EU Political models is the directon of exchange. Whereas in the UK power is coming to Edinburgh, in the EU power is going to Brussels.

Contrary to concern raised by those campaigning for Britain to leave the EU that the difference between these models could be reduced and eventually that the EU could resemble the UK Politically, where most of the power would be housed in Brussels, I do not see how the enhancement of Union can be achieved by the diminishment of Country.

Although I am voting to remain a member of the EU, I favour the UK model, which is progressively strengthening its individual member states through Devolution.

The UK is way ahead of the EU with changes to its constitution and is able to determine its own destiny while remaining part of the wider union of nations. The Prime Minister's negotiated restatement of Britain's position is recent evidence.

Getting things right for the many, especially on such a grand scale, is the greater challenge in my opinion. When we do, we are better together.

When we fail we are all the better for being together. However, the separate areas of the debate reveal that enough worthwhile progress is being made by the EU to convince me that we're benefiting from membership and to vote in favour of remaining a special member of a very considerable global entity.
wombat
laugh.gif hey kermie what have you got against Scotland running its own financial affairs ? rolleyes.gif
flam
Wombat, probably the same as you,when you bolted the course, to leave Scotland .lol
Kemedian
Nothing.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (flam @ 17th Apr 2016, 11:10am) *
Wombat, probably the same as you,when you bolted the course, to leave Scotland .lol


I think you'll find that Wombat along with many thousands of fellow Scots left Scotland to to improve their way of life for them and their families as they saw no hope for the future in a Scotland under Westminster rule, had Scotland been independent then he'd probably still be here posting under the moniker of the midge. laugh.gif
wombat
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Apr 2016, 07:23pm) *
had Scotland been independent then he'd probably still be here posting under the moniker of the midge. laugh.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif thumbup.gif
wombat
QUOTE (flam @ 17th Apr 2016, 10:10am) *
Wombat, probably the same as you,when you bolted the course, to leave Scotland .lol


flam laugh.gif
ashfield
Ah, a misbehaving primate.......that reminds me.

I see that Gove and Johnson are calling Obama hypocritical for intervening in the referendum debate , suggesting that the UK should vote to stay in. I don't remember them complaining when he got involved in the Indyref (on their side of the argument) to suggest that Scotland should remain part of the UK.

I guess that makes them, let me see, would it be something beginning with an h unsure.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (ashfield @ 22nd Apr 2016, 03:04pm) *
Ah, a misbehaving primate.......that reminds me.

I see that Gove and Johnson are calling Obama hypocritical for intervening in the referendum debate , suggesting that the UK should vote to stay in. I don't remember them complaining when he got involved in the Indyref (on their side of the argument) to suggest that Scotland should remain part of the UK.

I guess that makes them, let me see, would it be something beginning with an h unsure.gif



Yes Ash, even newspapers that had banner headlines praising Obama's wise words before the Indy referendum are now outraged, how dare this outsider poke his nose in when it has nothing to do with him. unsure.gif
john.mcn
I take it that if Obama thinks the EU is so super duper he will be for a North American union similar to the EU relaxing border controls to the south, and surrender the US's sovereignty to a political body comprising of his Hispanic neighbours...




Thought not...
Kemedian
QUOTE (Obama)
The EU helps the UK magnify its power.

Poetry.

smile.gif
john.mcn
If thats the case then Kem why did you fight to keep Scotland tied to such a weak State as the UK. You said we need to be part of it to be strong but are now saying the same thing with the EU. If the Uk needs the EU then explain to me why Scotland shouldn't have just cut out the middle man and joined the EU independently of the UK (after a referendum of course)
john.mcn



QUOTE
EU trade law could criminalise whistleblowers

The European Parliament passed a law on Thursday (14 April) that critics say could criminalise whistleblowers and journalists.
The legislation on trade secrets aims to protect European companies from corporate espionage from rival firms around the world.

“With one company out of every five a victim of theft of trade secrets every year, harmonisation should allow the creation of a safe and trustworthy environment for European companies”, the French centre-right MEP responsible for the bill, Constance le Grip, said after the vote.
But there are concerns that the law, which passed by 503 votes to 131, opens the door for companies to sue anybody who they think violated what they deem to be secrets.

Critics argue that it would have made the revelations of secret tax deals in the LuxLeaks investigation and the off-shore interests revealed by the Panama Papers illegal.

Edouard Perrin, one of the first reporters to disclose LuxLeaks and who has also been working on the Panama Papers, is already facing charges in Luxembourg for revealing sensitive information. Antoine Deltour, a former employee at the PricewaterhouseCoopers firm, the whistleblower who initiated the leaks, is also facing charges.

Both have criticised the new law.

“As a journalist, I strongly oppose the directive. As a reporter that will soon stand trial for precisely being accused of breaching trade secrets law in Luxembourg, I am perfectly aware of the dangers implied by such a legislation," Perrin said in a statement.

“The burden of proof is on us, not on companies. The sheer threat of a lawsuit will ensure investigations are killed way before any publication,” he said.

German broadcasters, including ARD and ZDF, have warned that the directive could endanger journalistic investigations. Trade unions have also protested.

An online petition had gathered some 155,000 signatures calling to halt the trade secret legislation.

Corporate Europe Observatory (CEO), a Brussels-based pro-transparency NGO, said multinational lobbyists had transformed the EU bill into “something resembling a blanket right to corporate secrecy.”

It said the law “threatens anyone in society who sometimes needs access to companies' internal information without their consent: consumers, employees, journalists, scientists.”

Defenders of the legislation, which now will have to be transposed into national law by member states, said there are safeguards in the text to protect whistleblowers and journalists.

“I've also been fighting to ensure that the safeguards laid down in this text to protect the work of journalists and whistleblowers are as real and as unambiguous as can be”, Le Grip said.

The text of the legislation includes safeguards, such as “exercising the right to freedom of expression and information as set out in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU.”

It also permits disclosures if they revealed wrongdoing or illegal activities.

But critics said it will be up to a judge to decide whether individual revelations fall into those categories, while companies will get to decide what are trade secrets.

"They [whistleblowers and journalists] will need to demonstrate to the judge that they acted with 'the purpose of protecting the public general interest', the burden of the proof is on them, and while large companies can afford long and expensive legal procedures, individuals usually cannot," CEO pointed out in their statement.
carmella
I don't know if President Obama actually believed what 'advice' he was giving to the people of the UK, who in any event, will pay no attention to his comments as we will make our own minds up without influences outwith the UK, whether that's the USA or another country.
It strikes me as quite hypocritical, however, as we most certainly could never 'advise' the USA to let their political, trading and judicial systems, be told what to do by say Cuba, Poerto Rico, the EU etc. etc., and their judicial findings on matters of appeal etc., to be over-turned. Therefore, I would advise the outgoing President Obama to keep his opinions about our decisions to himself. The sooner we are out of the grasp of Brussels, the better. eyebrow.gif
Tally Rand
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 22nd Apr 2016, 07:16pm) *
I take it that if Obama thinks the EU is so super duper he will be for a North American union similar to the EU relaxing border controls to the south, and surrender the US's sovereignty to a political body comprising of his Hispanic neighbours...




Thought not...

Schengen U.S.A. All youse Mexicans and other South Americans are now free to freely cross the border and settle in the U.S.A.

Yeah, Jimmy whit are you oan????
Billy Boil
QUOTE (flam @ 17th Apr 2016, 10:02am) *
Wombat, probably the same as you,when you bolted the course, to leave Scotland .lol

Those "who bolted the course" 33 past and present American presidents (yes genealogists have traced have traced President Obama's antecedents to William the Lion of Scotland.) Armstrong carried a scrap of his clans, tartan to the moon). Canada has 4.5 million citizens claiming Scottish ancestry. Australia's Lachlan McQuarrie and John McArthur, founded the basis for Australia's position in the world. It would be impossible here to list the Scot's who "bolted the course" and contributed to the greatness of Canada the U.S.A. and the other "colonies of mother England". Where and what would these countries be in the present day had it not been for the Scots' spread of democratic institutions and entrepreneurial skills?

Ever wondered why there are more people of Scottish descent in the world than there are in Scotland?
angel
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 22nd Apr 2016, 08:30pm) *
If thats the case then Kem why did you fight to keep Scotland tied to such a weak State as the UK. You said we need to be part of it to be strong but are now saying the same thing with the EU. If the Uk needs the EU then explain to me why Scotland shouldn't have just cut out the middle man and joined the EU independently of the UK (after a referendum of course)



I don't think that Mexico would ever agree to being
part of the USA . America did go to war with Mexico
in the mid 1800s or so , for access to the pacific ocean ,
they did get California and Texas plus access to the ocean .

Anyway the USA is a union of 50 states each self governing
themselves with a few exceptions including Federal laws
and Canada is similar with ten provinces and three territories
and so far it seems to be working quite well for those two countries
that are in fact unions , So why not the EU .













john.mcn
Who said anything about Mexico joining the USA, my point was that the USA would not give up its sovereignty but Obama is threatening advising UK citizens over the EU referendum

A state or a province is not the same as a country but interesting you say that as the eventual 'closer union' the EU talks about will relegate those countries to states/provinces.

One thing i noticed about this debate elsewhere, the TTIP between the EU and US has some of them foaming at the mouth but they are fanatically pro EU jumping on Obamas speech as proof we are 'better together', yet they are silent when its pointed out that no US treaty deal with the UK means no TTIP whereas in the EU we are getting TTIP whether we like it or not.
angel


I am well aware that a state or a province is not a country
and neither would I suggest that the EU members become
one or the other

I think that Obama in threatening
or advising according to you or " which ever word you care to use "
is simply a mountain being made out of a mole hill as usual
by yourself .

As regards this TTIP . Canada's deal has , as I understand been
approved but has yet to be signed , although I do believe that the delay
is the problem concerning
"THE CETA " , organization something to do
with big business and profits ,so if your interested in that then feel free
to search .
USA deal has not been approved as yet , not unless it is a
secret .






























john.mcn

If you are aware of that then why on bloody earth do you compare a country made up of states/provinces to a political Union of countries rolleyes.gif

Mountain out of a molehill ??? As I and other people in the UK will actually be affected by the upcoming referendum then what the outgoing leader of a powerful country says is important, when his remarks can be seen as a threat (and telling us 'we' will be back of the queue for any trade talks is a threat) and that he would never sign up his country to a union where his office surrenders its sovereignty to another is hypocritical . This is the same US who refuses to join the international criminal court (ICC), thats the one based at the Hague and they try war criminals and perpetrators of genocide ,so can you tell me or anyone else here why on earth anyone should listen to him.

Betsy2009
... and the same US that got a bit upset about being ruled by an English king a while ago?
Betsy2009
How on Earth did we manage before the EU???
angel
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 29th Apr 2016, 09:49pm) *
... and the same US that got a bit upset about being ruled by an English king a while ago?


A little more than a while ago Betsy ,

The Americans were angry because
Britain made them pay taxes and although
they were taxpayers to Britain they
were not allowed representation in the British
government , hence THE American war
of independence .



angel
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 29th Apr 2016, 10:52pm) *
How on Earth did we manage before the EU???


because Britain's main trading partners where the commonwealth countries
until they gave the commonwealth the shaft and signed up with Europe .
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.