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Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 23rd Feb 2016, 10:12pm) *
But not half as amusing to see you Brit Nats tying yourselves in knots rubbishing what you were claiming only two years ago. laugh.gif

Untied your own knot yet, Jagz?
DannyH
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 23rd Feb 2016, 08:24pm) *
I'm sure plenty of people from the south side remember or knew women who worked at Cohens in Pollokshaws, they made clothes for Marks and Sparks before China became the holy grail of cheap clothes..well cheap to manufacture, not sure if they dropped the price tag.



Hello John

Yes at one time there were thousands of women, and girls of 14 straight from school, who worked in clothing factories throughout industrial Scotland. They were sweat shops, just as the Chinese ones are today. My wife, and some other women who worked in the clothing trade could tell you stories of Scottish companies that went to the wall because of M&S. M&S would send in their own inspectors and if the finished articles didn't meet with their approval, that was it.

When my wife was browsing through some of the clothing made in China, she showed me numerous articles that would have failed M&S inspection. Like striped tops, where the stripes on the sleeves didn't align with the stripes on the 'body' of the top. In her day that would have been sent back for repair before it left the factory.

The one thing that British workers had over the Chinese workers, is that they went home at night after work, albeit to further work in their homes, many many of which were slum properties.

Anybody who has been watching televised news reports from China couldn't have missed the many thousands of Chinese workers going home for their ONCE A YEAR trip home to be with their families. The only time they get to see their children. And we are supposed to listen to the Chief Executive of M&S? The boss of a company that pays slave wages to the Chinese workers, but makes the owners of these Chinese factories, very wealthy.

The public in the UK are being sidetracked. We are being given a clash of personalities. It is turning into a sideshow like the one in America with Donald Trump. What we need is hard facts. The true economical facts. What we are getting is "Britain is stronger, safer, and better off in the EU."

Is that it? I could get my great-grandson to say that, and he is only 2. He would only be repeating what somebody told him. That is the way Cameron is treating us.

Danny

Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 23rd Feb 2016, 08:54pm) *
They disagreed and debated over the points before they found common ground.

This is good. Right?

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 23rd Feb 2016, 08:54pm) *
The UK cannot be sovereign while part of the EU as they have to answer to a higher power, the EU and its parliament.

We're part of that higher power, as the PM just demonstrated. His deal was not to the liking of every Leader, and not to the liking of every Brit or GG board member. The victory belongs to the art of Politics.

Europe is historically a powder keg. Now we know better than to plough our own furrows (ask our subsidised farmers laugh.gif), I hope.

In a continent of so many nations, I view independent sovereignty as a decent starting point, a platform to build from. I view shared sovereignty as the higher goal, especially between advanced democracies such as Europe can boast. I support the strength in numbers argument. Finding common ground - the best sort - takes more strength and offers a better future than your crude solution of "tazers, dogs and fences".


Click to view attachment
(Source: www.nfuonline.com)
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 23rd Feb 2016, 11:15pm) *
Untied your own knot yet, Jagz?


Don't have one as i'm not contradicting myself.
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 24th Feb 2016, 09:16am) *
Don't have one as i'm not contradicting myself.

Good.

So, which way are you voting?
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 24th Feb 2016, 01:06am) *
This is good. Right?


You're missing the point. Why is there even a need to debate over issues like EU nationals migrating to claim benefits (as your work colleague did), its indefensible and goes completely against the mantra shouted out by pro 'anyone can come here' rabble that migrants come to work and benefit the economy.

QUOTE
We're part of that higher power, as the PM just demonstrated. His deal was not to the liking of every Leader, and not to the liking of every Brit or GG board member. The victory belongs to the art of Politics.


Further proof that the EU is a mess and 'Brexit' scares them, i'm in no doubt that if the UK votes to stay then at some point in the future, when the EU is much further down the road to the Fedreal states of Europe and more powerful, then there will be moves within it and the UK for the 'us' to be annexed become closer.
QUOTE
Europe is historically a powder keg. Now we know better than to plough our own furrows (ask our subsidised farmers laugh.gif), I hope.

In a continent of so many nations, I view independent sovereignty as a decent starting point, a platform to build from. I view shared sovereignty as the higher goal, especially between advanced democracies such as Europe can boast. I support the strength in numbers argument. Finding common ground - the best sort - takes more strength and offers a better future than your crude solution of "tazers, dogs and fences".


Historically Europe was powderkeg, we'll that is true but i guess history is not your strong point as that was generally down to sovereign peoples resisting attempts from their neighbours desire to do what you want and create a pan European empire. You'll also see, even recently with East European countries independence, peoples desire to control their lives, governments and borders.

Shared sovereignty....what a load of bull, does Utah, Kansas or California share sovereignty of the USA with Texas, Oregon or Washington...no they are forever part of the United States with no right to leave as the 'War between the states' showed.
Roy Jenkins, then a Labour minister, said he was willing to give up a little bit of political sovereignty to join the common market.. 40 years on that little bit of sovereignty lost has grown with each new treaty and the free trade area has become a law making , controlling legislature. I wonder if those who voted YES all those years ago would still do so knowing what a behemoth it's become.

The need for extra security at 'borders' is evident in the scenes of thousands of illegals tearing down barriers and forcing their way onto transport to the UK. I said months ago that those in Calais would learn from those invading Hungary and i was right. Of course it helps that there are 5th columnists and anarchists from the UK manipulating and directing them for their own political gains.
You are naive if you think relaxing security would deter or stop those who continue to risk death to the reach the UK, some might say they are fanatical and are a danger to the UK due to their dangerous and illegal actions..
I have said it many times but it seems to fall on deaf ears, people can quite legally migrate to the UK using legitimate channels just as UK citizens have done so to other countries. Why is it excuses are made about people from certain parts of the world ignoring immigration rules when if i just showed up in say America with no papers, money or speaking the language i would be about turned and sent right back..

Whats the point of your graph, the world trades with each other and has done for thousands of years. The way you lot go on you seem to be implying EU trade would stop, do we not import more than we export to them, according to the BBC we do.
john.mcn
QUOTE (DannyH @ 24th Feb 2016, 12:07am) *
When my wife was browsing through some of the clothing made in China, she showed me numerous articles that would have failed M&S inspection. Like striped tops, where the stripes on the sleeves didn't align with the stripes on the 'body' of the top. In her day that would have been sent back for repair before it left the factory.



Well i know their products aren't made as well, i remember my first pair of shoes from that region. I was walking up the toon with my wife and i kept stumbling, she blamed the few drinks i had but looked down and seen one of my shoe laces undone. Pointing it out she said aren't you going to tie that shoelace, i said no as it said on the insole Taiwan..

Sorry *gets coat* wink.gif
Betsy2009
One step forward / one step back!

''David Cameron's deal changing Britain's relationship with the European Union is not legally binding and could be overturned by a prominent European court, Michael Gove has said.


The Justice Secretary rejected the Prime Minister's claim that the package was irreversible, warning that the European Court of Justice is not bound by the settlement without treaty change.''

''The Cabinet minister insisted the EU has held Britain back and said the nation would recover its "mojo" outside the 28-member bloc.''

''"I think it would be a tremendous opportunity for Britain to recover its mojo, for Britain to be a more flexible, outward looking, creative place. One of the big problems with the European Union is that it has held us back."

He added: "The nature of the European Union is bureaucracy. The failure of the single currency, the problems that it has had with migration, all of them point to the fact that it is an old-fashioned model. It's sclerotic, it's out of date."''


More here ...

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/camer...ocid=spartandhp
Heather
The Canda Factory was in the Queenslie Estate where they made clothe's for C & A.
Now it no longer exist's.

The Queenslie Estate was a big place with a lot of Factory's now all gone.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 24th Feb 2016, 09:22am) *
Good.

So, which way are you voting?



Like i said pre indy referendum, i will vote for what i think is in the best interests of Scotland, i haven't heard much to sway me either way yet, i will have to keep reading up then make my own decision nearer the time.
Betsy2009
Are we back to 'fear' tactics?

''Only one of the 190 companies whose bosses warned that Brexit would "risk the economy" has admitted to clear plans to cut jobs if the "Leave" campaign triumphs in June's referendum. ''

''Sky News contacted the overwhelming majority of the companies which signed Tuesday's letter, which was orchestrated by Downing Street officials and Baroness Rock, a senior figure in the Conservative Party.

The companies were asked whether they were drawing up plans to cut jobs and investment in the UK, and whether they were delaying investment decisions until after the referendum.

Dozens responded by saying that they had no plans to cut jobs or declining to comment.

Only a handful of smaller companies said they were reconsidering investment decisions.

The responses led to accusations of hypocrisy from pro-Brexit campaigners, one of whom said it was "disingenuous" for the business leaders to put their names to a letter warning that jobs were under threat if they had no such plans themselves.''


JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 24th Feb 2016, 12:21pm) *
The responses led to accusations of hypocrisy from pro-Brexit campaigners, one of whom said it was "disingenuous" for the business leaders to put their names to a letter warning that jobs were under threat if they had no such plans themselves.''


Pity the MSM never thought to do the same pre indy, we might have had an honest outcome. yes.gif
Guest
QUOTE
Pity the MSM never thought to do the same pre indy, we might have had an honest outcome.

But we did have an honest outcome!

When will the Nationalists stop bleating and greeting and admit that on all levels they failed to make their case for Scottish independence!
DannyH
You couldn't make it up!

China and a number of Far Eastern countries are currently exporting BILLIONS of £'s worth of goods to the UK. Today, on BBC television news, George Osborne our beloved Chancellor of the Exchequer, stated that the UK's economy would suffer if we left the EU. Where was he today when he made that statement? In China!!!!! What was he doing in China? Talking about trade deals between the UK and China!!!!

On the same news channel a couple of days ago, a young Scottish business man who runs a small engineering company, said he wants to leave the EU because his company can't do business with the Chinese because EU rules won't allow him to!!!

Could somebody please tell me what is going on?

I am not interested in which prominent politicians are for, or against, the UK leaving the EU.

What I want to know is, apart from the arms trade, does the UK import more than it exports? How much of our imports are from non EU countries?

The last two questions are relevant because the answers will go some way to helping us (well me anyway) to believe, or otherwise the 'claims' that the UK is better off in the EU.

Danny
Kemedian
QUOTE (DannyH @ 26th Feb 2016, 08:50pm) *
China and a number of Far Eastern countries are currently exporting BILLIONS of £'s worth of goods to the UK.

"Currently". I see this as a pro-EU case, which is down to our role and position in the World's biggest single market. smile.gif
Kemedian
Not my favourite argument, but one of the strongest by all accounts. #GreenerIn

Click to view attachment

www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2016/02/26...speech-to-spring-conference
john.mcn
So it's the EU's fault i now have 5 bins and 'waste' only gets picked up every two weeks..


It never amazes me that the EU proponents pull up these legislations as successes of the EU as if somehow they couldn't be implemented here without Big Brother telling us.. Of course those same things were argued by them at 'our' last referendum so i'm puzzled that now they think Westminster is so inept that they need the EU.. Either Scotland needs the EU or the UK, the argument was that we are stronger in the UK but its now being said we are stronger in the EU, if we need the EU then surely we didnt need the UK..
Betsy2009
''Chancellor George Osborne warned that he might cut public spending more deeply than he previously planned after the country's economic growth fell short of the pace foreseen in his plans to wipe out the country's budget deficit.''

but on the other hand ...

''Some economists argue that Osborne should use record low levels of government borrowing costs to fund investment and stimulate the economy as the global outlook darkens, rather than cut public spending further. ''

''Osborne's comments stood at odds with an appeal by the International Monetary Fund to finance ministers attending a Group of 20 nations meeting in Shanghai this week. The IMF urged countries to boost global demand through fiscal means.''

Am I the only one that's confused?

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/osbor...ocid=spartandhp
Guest
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 21st Feb 2016, 11:51am) *
Again with Scottish Independence.

I propose a different question:
What does Nicola really want?
Anyone?


The answer to that is very simple. Nicola Sturgeon wants an independent Scotland.

In order to achieve that she will subordinate the real social and economic needs of the Scottish people.
snarler63
The SNP are doing it again.

At the general election they were the Tories biggest asset, thanks to their insistence that they would blackmail Labour into all sorts of crap the Tories walked it. They really are the 'Tartan Tories'.

Now they maintain that they are for IN yet they also say that should the UK, by that they mean England, vote to leave but Scotland votes IN by a big majority they will immediately call another Indi Referendum.

Therefore anyone who doesn't want to go through all that crap again has to vote OUT so that we avoid that.

Ergo they are the OUTers biggest asset in Scotland.
Guest
QUOTE (ashfield @ 21st Feb 2016, 12:39pm) *
Yet again you are sign_offtopic.gif

Can you give your hobby horse a rest please.

If First Minister Sturgeon claims that a vote to leave the EU in the June referendum is a trigger for a second referendum on Scottish Independence then Kemedian's remarks are not only on topic but very relevant to the discussion.
Billy Boil
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 23rd Feb 2016, 08:24pm) *
I'm sure plenty of people from the south side remember or knew women who worked at Cohens in Pollokshaws, they made clothes for Marks and Sparks before China became the holy grail of cheap clothes..well cheap to manufacture, not sure if they dropped the price tag.

When buying clothes in Australia my wife and I seek out quality Chinese garments as opposed to Bangladeshi (women murdered in factories in their thousands and paid starvation wages) and or Indian or Sri Lankan.

The quality of the above mentioned are "spit through" cottons and fall apart in 4 washes. At least in China they have labour laws and conditions superior to most other parts of Asia. Never expect to compete with Asia when the lowest dole money in U.K. is more than a months wages to any Asian.
flam
Nicola is actually hoping that the UK leaves the EU, what a Hypocrite, she does not want to be ruled by the UK( probably BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT DO England) and yet she wants to be ruled by Brussels, and does that mean since we have the Nuclear Trident will she want to come out of NATO..I would like to see all the banners in Glasgow City Centre with the words..SNP votes to bring in any refugees that want to come to Scotland, also bear in mind it is possible there may be border controls with England, and Troops would have to be guarding the Trident
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Guest @ 27th Feb 2016, 01:18am) *
The answer to that is very simple. Nicola Sturgeon wants an independent Scotland.

In order to achieve that she will subordinate the real social and economic needs of the Scottish people.


Wow........The leader of the SNP wants an independent Scotland..........No shit Sherlock. ohmy.gif

I think you'll find that the "the real social and economic needs of the Scottish people" are being served better than they have ever been as we are not being governed by a branch office of a UK party that puts its own interests first.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (flam @ 27th Feb 2016, 12:52pm) *
Nicola is actually hoping that the UK leaves the EU, what a Hypocrite, she does not want to be ruled by the UK( probably BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT DO England) and yet she wants to be ruled by Brussels


Again, the same old rubbish, or can you provide a quote or a link to this accusation, or can you just admit to making it up?
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (snarler63 @ 27th Feb 2016, 01:20am) *
The SNP are doing it again.

At the general election they were the Tories biggest asset, thanks to their insistence that they would blackmail Labour into all sorts of crap the Tories walked it. They really are the 'Tartan Tories'.


Welcome back snarler, glad to see you haven't learned anything since the General election, still trying to blame the SNP for Labour being totally useless really does put a smile on my face, as for "Tartan Tories", will that be Ruthie's Blue Tartan Tories or Kezia's Red Tartan Tories?
Kemedian
QUOTE (DannyH @ 26th Feb 2016, 08:50pm) *
What I want to know is, apart from the arms trade, does the UK import more than it exports? How much of our imports are from non EU countries?

The last two questions are relevant because the answers will go some way to helping us (well me anyway) to believe, or otherwise the 'claims' that the UK is better off in the EU.

QUOTE (HMRC @ 9th Feb, 2016)
Total trade exports for the year 2015 are £305.2 billion, and imports are £411.9 billion. The UK remains a net importer for the year with imports exceeding exports by £106.7 billion.

The proportion of total exports to the EU is 38 per cent in December 2015 (£10.4 bn). Over the past 18 months, this has ranged from 38 per cent to 49 per cent.

The proportion of total imports from the EU is 55 per cent in December 2015 (£17.0 bn). Over the same period, this has ranged between 49 per cent and 55 per cent.



According to these latest Government trade figures, I suspect that you already knew that the UK is currently running a costly trade deficit. Recent trends also show that in both imports and exports there can sometimes be a 50/50 share between the EU and non-EU countries, but our imports tend to come more from the EU (up to 55%) and exports go more to non-EU countries (up to 62%).

As a supporter of EU membership, my point of view is that I am voting to grow our exports to the EU above the present 38 - 49% amount not voting to drive a harder bargain, because our European customers also supply 49 - 55% of our purchases and if we cancel our membership and leave the EU club then we surely also forfeit its standardised tariffs and can expect 27 harder bargains.
john.mcn


So if they sell us more than we sell them then why on earth do you think they would want to risk jeapardising that by restricting our trade to them, what it shows is that the UK is in a very good negotiating position both in trade and areas like oil and access to the UK's EEZ for fishing(deja vu wink.gif )
You make it sound like the UK is in some weak position and needs protection from its neighbours. You did it last the last time and are now doing it again, why were you pushing for Scotland to remain in the UK when you think that the UK itself needs to be part of a bigger political union to survive.
Looking at your posts your preference is for the EU to become one large state or 'nation' and that both Scottish independence and Brexit would cause other populations to demand plebiscites to leave the upcoming closer EU, AKA the Federal States of Europe..

Does anyone else think that the timing of the French clearing out the 'jungle' rather suspect, its been there for years but will be cleared up in time for the EU referendum.. cynic, moi?? Neva!!!!
Kemedian
Your fear of international unification is not one that I share, John, but I hope that you will one day overcome it.

Your vote to Leave risks growing the existing UK trade deficit by incurring higher prices, as the EU would be poorer without us. Unless, of course, you're hoping that an Indy UK could force the remaining EU27 to charge us less? Your cunning plan is to turn the World's biggest trading bloc from a willing partner of over 40 years into a dominant competitor. wacko.gif

Throughout the Scot Indyref you continually argued about how weak and insignificant the UK is and how its historic role on the international stage was over. Now you believe we'd be stronger on our own! Your argument is behind the times, it risks our future in the hands of a would-be William Wallace or Horatio Nelson. Thankfully, the future World is 'connected', courtesy of modern-day heroes Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs (even our very own GG wink.gif), and it's in the hands of every smartphone-owning globalised and empowered little kid. Their life is a game, where borders are soft and communities are international like never before.

So Log In, or Log Out. biggrin.gif
Kemedian
Why Wouldn't they Want us ?


Click to view attachment
wombat
yes.gif still with the SHOVEL kermedium? laugh.gif laugh.gif
Kemedian
In yer face, Womble. tongue.gif
wombat
laugh.gif
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 27th Feb 2016, 06:56pm) *
Your fear of international unification is not one that I share, John, but I hope that you will one day overcome it.


Recent history shows that a peoples desire to control their own destiny doesn't wane just because their rulers control empires. European people throughout the ages have thrown off the shackles of Kings, Emperors and dictators and when it shows its hand the EU will be no different to the Caesars, Napoleons, Hasburgs, Ottomans, General Secretaries or Tzar before it.
Good that you're not denying your, or the EU's long term plan though, it does show up your duplicity 'fighting' for the United Kingdom though as you've drunk the kool aid and collected your bag of 30 Euros from the EU, you want the UK consigned to the history books just as much as me but i'm at least honest about it.

QUOTE
Your vote to Leave risks growing the existing UK trade deficit by incurring higher prices, as the EU would be poorer without us. Unless, of course, you're hoping that an Indy UK could force the remaining EU27 to charge us less? Your cunning plan is to turn the World's biggest trading bloc from a willing partner of over 40 years into a dominant competitor. wacko.gif

Competitor??? Wow, naive....very. First you're implying we'd be at a disadvantage now they'll be worse off without us when your figures show they sell more to us and wouldn't risk upsetting that. Companies within or outwith the EU are competitors, the countries are already competitors for international investment and the money poured into the eastern bloc often came at cost of jobs and factories lost in the 'west'.

QUOTE
Throughout the Scot Indyref you continually argued about how weak and insignificant the UK is and how its historic role on the international stage was over. Now you believe we'd be stronger on our own! Your argument is behind the times, it risks our future in the hands of a would-be William Wallace or Horatio Nelson. Thankfully, the future World is 'connected', courtesy of modern-day heroes Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs (even our very own GG wink.gif), and it's in the hands of every smartphone-owning globalised and empowered little kid. Their life is a game, where borders are soft and communities are international like never before.


The UK is 'weak' in the Global sense, it is a small country clinging onto past glories and the pursuit of nuclear weapons at the expense of the 'needy' is to fool others that 'we' can still pee up the wall as high as Russia and the US. Where do you get the idea i want us to be 'stronger', i was quite happy with an Indy Scotland re-joining the world and having an equal voice and negotiating its own treaties, you are the one who is trying to convince others theres strength in giving up sovereignty.

You think Facebooks Zuckerberg and Apples Jobs are modern day heroes, i see controlling locked down software and hardware, with Facebook(and twitter) responsible for spreading BS through the like/share button because some people believe that because its on social media it must be true, kinda like the TV in the 50's .. As for the iphone/ipad generation, can you hear BAAAA BAAAA
What is soft is the current generations who think their life has ended when their wifi/3g goes down, i suppose that will be the next threat to these 'connected' people, vote for the EU or your internet will be slower and more expensive
QUOTE
So Log In, or Log Out. biggrin.gif


what on earth does that even mean...
wombat
laugh.gif laugh.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 27th Feb 2016, 09:11pm) *
You want the UK consigned to the history books just as much as me but i'm at least honest about it.

Never happen.

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 27th Feb 2016, 09:11pm) *
Your figures show they sell more to us and wouldn't risk upsetting that.

I haven't given those figures. But I can now.


EU Exports to UK: 13%
(UK->EU = 49%)

EU Imports from UK: 10%
(EU->UK = 55%)

www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/eaec/trade/html/index.en.html


The risk is convincingly more to the UK. The EU has much less to lose.

EU membership and access to its internal markets is an attraction to UK foreign investors.
DannyH
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 26th Feb 2016, 09:08pm) *
"Currently". I see this as a pro-EU case, which is down to our role and position in the World's biggest single market. :)



Hello Kemedian

I don't know if it is because of the late hour it is right now, or if it is just that I am 'thick', but would you please expand on why you see this as a pro-EU case?
john.mcn
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 27th Feb 2016, 11:21pm) *
Never happen.


Under your desire for an 'ever closer EU', or as you call it 'international unification' but in reality the Federal States of Europe the UK will become a administrative region of the empire EU. You aren't even denying that is your wish and the EU's goal

QUOTE
I haven't given those figures. But I can now.


EU Exports to UK: 13%
(UK->EU = 49%)

EU Imports from UK: 10%
(EU->UK = 55%)


The risk is convincingly more to the UK. The EU has much less to lose.

EU membership and access to its internal markets is an attraction to UK foreign investors.


So the UK imports 13% from the other 27 countries combined, 13% of the total EU (uk exc) exports are to the UK. maybe if you were dealing with one of your 'connected smartphone-owning globalised and empowered little kids' they might be in awe of your twisting of figures but i'm not.. Despite being only one of 28 countries and less than 8% of its total population the UK is importing 13% of it's produce but you are telling us they would jeopardise that..
Countries do individual treaties with each other all the time, the USA despite not being in the EU is 'our' biggest single importer, are you jumping on the 51st state bandwagon next?
bilbo.s
http://www.andywilliamson.com/10-points-to...-eu-referendum/


Well worth a read.
Dykejumper
Worth reading? only if you like half truths and lies.
The only thing you need to know is that the Bookies say we are staying in and they are rarely wrong.
Project Fear will steamroller the Brexit supporters.
Kemedian
QUOTE (DannyH @ 28th Feb 2016, 12:18am) *
Hello Kemedian

I don't know if it is because of the late hour it is right now, or if it is just that I am 'thick', but would you please expand on why you see this as a pro-EU case?

You're not 'thick'.

I just told you my opinion.

You described our important trade with China that's "currently" happening and I thought that's great, long may it continue. European Union trade rules obviously give us the freedom we need to strike such deals with its global competitors. thumbup.gif

What's your opinion of the latest Government overseas trade figures that I provided in answer to your previous question?
Betsy2009
''Finance ministers from major economies agree the risk of 'Brexit' poses dangers for international stability

The global economy will suffer "a shock" if Britain votes to leave the European Union, the world's 20 leading nations have warned.

In a joint statement, finance ministers from the G20 group of major economies unanimously agreed that the risk of "Brexit" posed dangers for international stability. ''

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/globa...ocid=spartandhp


What is it that makes this tiny little country so powerful? Is it based in fact or just good marketing?
DannyH
I am just curious to know, do the Chinese imports come directly from China to the UK, or do they get dropped off somewhere in the EU, then shipped to the UK?

Just wondering, because on holiday in Spain, I saw very large container ships from China, lined up to offload their cargo. Has anyone seen a similar scene in the UK? I have only spotted the Waverley on the Clyde.

One of the reasons I am prompted to ask the above question, is that a large quantity of Mars chocolate bars manufactured in Holland, have recently been recalled by the parent company which is German.

So here we have a product which was manufactured initially for many many years in the UK, is now manufactured for a German company, in Holland.

HP sauce is manufactured on the Continent, but still bears a picture of the Houses of Parliament.

I am confused.

Danny
john.mcn
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 28th Feb 2016, 12:08pm) *
What is it that makes this tiny little country so powerful? Is it based in fact or just good marketing?


Its the danger of putting ideas into peoples heads that they ultimately, through the ballot box, have the power. The problem of course is when the politicians are all in the Stepford mold and public opinion gets taken for granted that they support what the candidates support, an ever closer Europe.. This referendum will hopefully tell us how the public view the EU, if of course we get a free unbiased campaign but we wont, we've already had the Vow MKII and project fear will be along soon. What we might end up with, much like the last ref, is people wanting radical change in the EU but vote to remain in and the EU trundles on getting bigger and more powerful.
Back when the first stay/leave campaign kicked off its said that the pro EU voters were young, now we're hearing that Out voters tend to be elderly, has anyone questioned that why those who voted In then may change to out now, do they think they were sold a pup and are now wary of where the EU is going..
john.mcn
QUOTE (DannyH @ 28th Feb 2016, 12:21pm) *
One of the reasons I am prompted to ask the above question, is that a large quantity of Mars chocolate bars manufactured in Holland, have recently been recalled by the parent company which is German.

So here we have a product which was manufactured initially for many many years in the UK, is now manufactured for a German company, in Holland.

HP sauce is manufactured on the Continent, but still bears a picture of the Houses of Parliament.

I am confused.

Danny


As i said previously Danny, investment in these 'new' EU members in East Europe often came at the expense of factories elsewhere in Europe. Several years ago Cadburys closed a factory in England and transferred the work to Poland. Some here would argue leaving the EU puts us in competition with it when in reality countries within Europe have always been in competition for 'investment'
Kemedian
QUOTE (Chinese President Xi Jinping @ 23rd Oct, 2015)
China hopes to see a prosperous Europe and a united EU, and hopes Britain, as an important member of the EU, can play an even more positive and constructive role in promoting the deepening development of China-EU ties.



Bear in mind that 13% of EU exports amount to 55% of UK imports.
  • The EU is China's largest trading partner, accounting for 14% of China's foreign trade.†EU bilateral trade in goods reached 467.5 billion euros in 2014, an increase of 9.1% over the previous year.
  • China is the EU's second largest trading partner after the United States.
  • In 2014, EU imports from China trade was 302.5 billion euros, exports to China trade amounted to 165 billion euros.
  • EU bilateral trade accounted for 3.3% of EU GDP, accounting for 6.2 percent of China's GDP, showing the interdependence on China-EU trade.
  • EU trade in services continued to grow, and full of potential, as long as China to further open its market. 2013 total trade in services in Europe stable at 49.9 billion euros, the EU's trade surplus has shrunk slightly to 8.1 billion euros.
  • Europe is the source of one of the five direct investment in China. However, foreign direct investment in Europe from § 10 billion in 2012, fell to 8.2 billion euros in 2013. Although Europe is still one of the top five sources of foreign direct investment to China, these investments accounted for only 4.8% of all foreign investment in the EU.
  • Although Chinese investment in Europe increased in 2012, Chinese investment in Europe is only 3.5 billion euros, about 5% of China's total foreign investment.
Click to view attachment

http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/china/pr...20150311_zh.htm
Kemedian
China and the UK.
  • In 2013, China was the UK’s 7th largest market for exports. Chinese data show the UK is China’s 3rd largest source of imports, behind Germany and France.
  • The most recently available Chinese data on outward investment (published in August 2013) estimate that in 2012 the UK was 4th most popular destination for Chinese outward investment (behind Hong Kong, the US and Kazakhstan), up from 8th place in 2011 and 21st place in 2010. The
    flow of investment to the UK was estimated at $2.77bn in 2012, up 95 percent on the previous year.
  • Chinese data estimate that the UK is China’s second largest investor (after Germany), with cumulated direct investment of $18.76bn. In the other direction it is estimated that by the end of 2012 China had invested a total of $8.75bn in the UK.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/china-in-numbers
john.mcn


Next up, Kem puts forward the case for joining China then we wouldn't have to worry about any referendums or elections.
Kemedian
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 28th Feb 2016, 02:04pm) *
Next up, Kem puts forward the case for joining China then we wouldn't have to worry about any referendums or elections.

Never happen.

Nice own goal, by the way. smile.gif
john.mcn


Your argument for staying in the EU is we trade with them, we trade with China so why aren't you calling for a Union with them, are you racist?????
You see Kem trading with your closest neighbours does not mean you need ever closer political unions, but if you're suggesting that we do then thats sounding more like some mafia protection racket.
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