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JAGZ1876
Don't know why this lot turned up in Edinburgh yesterday, don't they know that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU?

They should stick to Wales and England who actually voted for separatism. yes.gif

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/au...nal-brexit-deal
carmella
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 19th Aug 2018, 04:36pm) *
Don't know why this lot turned up in Edinburgh yesterday, don't they know that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU?

They should stick to Wales and England who actually voted for separatism. yes.gif

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/au...nal-brexit-deal

I don't care who was within the group, but I thought they were an embarrassment, what did they gain from it I wonder.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (carmella @ 25th Aug 2018, 11:23am) *
I don't care who was within the group, but I thought they were an embarrassment, what did they gain from it I wonder.



Absolutly nothing.
JAGZ1876
Since the GG unionists are working themselves into a lather about a possible alleged sex scandal over a former politician here's more of the real thing from the house of sleaze that is Westminster.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/872...rty-Theresa-May

Careful you don't go blind now guy's. laugh.gif
JAGZ1876
Maybe Kem or DJ could comment on the Tory party civil war that's on the verge of going nuclear and taking us all down with them?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/101...w-marr-show-bbc

Love Davis's "That actually leaves us in a position where they dictate our future rules without us having a say at all".

Could be a quote strait from the YES campaign. laugh.gif
JAGZ1876
The civil war rages on yes.gif

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1669432...lking-nonsense/

Come on chaps, there's only 203 days to go. unsure.gif
Kemedian
I opted out of this particular discussion not long after the votes had been counted, because what's it going to change?

There's a lot of talk about a no-deal, which is the worst outcome and shame on both sides if that happens.

What Brexit is showing us all is that we Scots are very sensible folk. We are a part of the UK and the EU, and we can see past the dirty Politics and value the shared benefits of international unity. Brexit is a complex regrettable business for both sides, but to argue that the UK will collapse and fall apart is defeatist and an inherently flawed strategy, especially for anyone promoting Scexit.

Relations between the UK and EU were good before the vote. Neither side wanted Brexit. The Leave vote and Leavers have been portrayed and derided in many ways, even by some of us who would vote identically in Scexit. A big factor in it was a public protest at the perceived failings of the system, so perhaps the Politicians deserve the difficult negotiations they now face.

Failure to agree a deal is not something either side wants to be held responsible for, because it will only prove the Brexiteers right. Two responsible partners negotiating a divorce in good faith should be able to make fair and justifiable arrangements to separate smoothly and constructively. These are our elected heads of state if they still need reminding.

As a proud Scot and double Remainer, Brexit has reassured me that i voted in the best interest of my country each time. I watch the SNP at work at Westminster and wonder if a Scexiting Scottish Government wouldn't have an even more difficult and fraught process of negotiation with the UK. I see the SNP making things MORE difficult https://youtu.be/u5zRRTakRlg.

If Brexit isn't going well, the signs aren't good for Scexit. In seeking Political gain from Brexit - chasing the holy grail of Independence - the SNP has inadvertently weakened its position of power and it knows it. Hence it's latest ill-timed drive for support https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/snp-to-ho...nce-this-month/.
JAGZ1876
Not unsurprisingly i have to disagree with you Kem, independence is coming regardless of what happens in the Brexit farce, your holy grail of remaining under Westminster rule is coming to an end.



"As a proud Scot"

What are you proud of exactly? unsure.gif
Kemedian
Proud to be called Scottish, proud of all that I believe my country is doing right.

Westminster, Holyrood, Brussels, they're all the same to me. Governments and leaders come and go, it's the common people I care about.

I don't see how a Scexit between the SNP and a Westminster administration could be any less of a "shambles".
JAGZ1876
Then you're proud of being British then.

If you really cared about the "common people" you would be scathing about the Tory cuts and the way they treat the sick, elderly and poor.

The only way leaving the UK would be a shambles would be if we left the negotiations to you and the Tories. yes.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 13th Sep 2018, 04:46pm) *
Then you're proud of being British then.

If you really cared about the "common people" you would be scathing about the Tory cuts and the way they treat the sick, elderly and poor.

The only way leaving the UK would be a shambles would be if we left the negotiations to you and the Tories. yes.gif

So you wouldn't expect an SNP administration to be highly demanding of the UK should Scexit happen? I would suggest that the SNP would have to, to justify putting us through it a second time. And wouldn't you expect a UK government to be highly protective of its interests post Brexit?

It's worth noting that both the Yes/No and Leave/Remain binary questions have proven problematic and drawn much criticism, so any third or fourth referendum would require a different approach all together. I certainly wouldn't like a straight re-run of either referendum, and I don't think the public appetite exists for this.

No government is above criticism, Jagz.

You're wrong, you and I share the same nationality, and any continued attempt by you to argue otherwise will only reinforce a negative Nationalist stereotype.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 13th Sep 2018, 05:23pm) *
So you wouldn't expect an SNP administration to be highly demanding of the UK should Scexit happen?

I certainly wouldn't like a straight re-run of either referendum, i don't think the public appetite exists for this.


I will be expecting the SG to stand up for what's best for Scotland, and unlike the UK negotiations with the EU we will be negotiating from a position of strength. yes.gif

The public have given the SNP the mandate to call a referendum already. wink.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 13th Sep 2018, 05:39pm) *
I will be expecting the SG to stand up for what's best for Scotland, and unlike the UK negotiations with the EU we will be negotiating from a position of strength. yes.gif

The public have given the SNP the mandate to call a referendum already. wink.gif

"Stand up for what's best". Well that's obligatory.

"Negotiating from a position of strength". I would naturally expect Scotland to punch above its weight, but I hope it never comes to that.

Much may have changed in 20 years time. The SNP will need to be still in power for one thing. Don't count your ballot papers just yet! tongue.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 13th Sep 2018, 06:18pm) *
Much may have changed in 20 years time. The SNP will need to be still in power for one thing. Don't count your ballot papers just yet! tongue.gif



What are you talking about now? unsure.gif
wombat
rolleyes.gif anybody's guess. biggrin.gif
Kemedian
Again, it wasn't me who said it. You'll have to ask her how long a lifetime actually is. Twenty years is just a rough estimate.

Click to view attachment
ashfield
C’mon now, it’s not like anyone in the SNP said it was a “vow” rolleyes.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 07:35am) *
Again, it wasn't me who said it. You'll have to ask her how long a lifetime actually is. Twenty years is just a rough estimate.




She's entitled to her opinion like you or i am.

You do realise this is the Brexit thread and not the independence thread don't you? unsure.gif
Kemedian
QUOTE (ashfield @ 14th Sep 2018, 08:00am) *
C’mon now, it’s not like anyone in the SNP said it was a “vow” rolleyes.gif

What on Earth was it then? A proposal, theory, joke, mistake, or as Jagz suggests Sturgeon's opinion (when he knows that she wasn't speaking for herself but as Party Leader)?

And Jagz, the SNP makes anything it can about independence, even an entirely different referendum outcome. Any old excuse will do. Happy lions are safer than hungry ones.
ashfield
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 01:40pm) *
What on Earth was it then? A proposal, theory, joke, mistake, or as Jagz suggests Sturgeon's opinion (when he knows that she wasn't speaking for herself but as Party Leader)?


Firstly, I apologise for continuing this thread off topic.

Secondly, clearly irony is lost on you Kemedian.

Thirdly, I think, if you check, Nicola Sturgeon was not the leader of the SNP when she made this statement.

Now, can we allow this thread to return to the fun of Brexit unsure.gif
Dykejumper
kem, clearly you dont understand how these threads work,its only the gnat applause monkeys who
can post about brexit or Indy in either thread.
Kemedian
QUOTE (ashfield @ 14th Sep 2018, 03:06pm) *
Firstly, I apologise for continuing this thread off topic.

Secondly, clearly irony is lost on you Kemedian.

Thirdly, I think, if you check, Nicola Sturgeon was not the leader of the SNP when she made this statement.

Now, can we allow this thread to return to the fun of Brexit unsure.gif

The point is, it wasn't her opinion. It was and still is the truth of the matter, unless you and Jagz want to continue to tell us that she and her Party weren't being straight with voters. Those were the conditions of the vote and can't be changed, not without them losing a whole lot of credibility.

And it's the SNP who twisted this conversation. They know all about sticking to a topic. wink.gif
Kemedian
A vote on the terms of Brexit would kill it off convincingly now in my opinion, but no Party with ambitions of Power wants to get behind a second referendum because it would lose them any chance they had at the next election.

No, the double edge of democracy must rule our fate, or we all risk a far greater loss.
ashfield
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 14th Sep 2018, 03:47pm) *
kem, clearly you dont understand how these threads work,its only the gnat applause monkeys who
can post about brexit or Indy in either thread.


You appear to be overly obsessed with your wee nicknames for everybody. I don't know if you think it's smart (it isn't), funny (it isn't) or the height of sarcasm (it definitely isn't).

It's just juvenile and very boring yes.gif
ashfield
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 03:56pm) *
The point is, it wasn't her opinion. It was and still is the truth of the matter, unless you and Jagz want to continue to tell us that she and her Party weren't being straight with voters. Those were the conditions of the vote and can't be changed, not without them losing a whole lot of credibility.

And it's the SNP who twisted this conversation. They know all about sticking to a topic. wink.gif


I think the phase you might have been searching for is, "I was wrong..........again" tongue.gif

Sorry, where are these "conditions" you speak of? Is there a "tablet" somewhere with them written on? (ok, heads up this time........watch out for the irony sleep.gif )
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 03:56pm) *
The point is, it wasn't her opinion. It was and still is the truth of the matter, unless you and Jagz want to continue to tell us that she and her Party weren't being straight with voters. Those were the conditions of the vote and can't be changed, not without them losing a whole lot of credibility.

And it's the SNP who twisted this conversation. They know all about sticking to a topic. wink.gif



Since this is the Brexit thread then you'll remember the FM saying before the 2016 referendum that there could be a call for a second independence referendum if there is a significant material change in circumstances like Scotland being taken out of the EU against it's will.

Funny how you never highlight that quote, and as i said the SG was given a mandate to call a second referendum at a time of their choice.
Kemedian
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 14th Sep 2018, 04:37pm) *
The SG was given a mandate to call a second referendum at a time of their choice.

So, if you're right, we can expect the SNP to hold one within the next 3 years then, before its time runs out the next election I mean, which looks as though it could be a serious game changer.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 14th Sep 2018, 03:47pm) *
kem, clearly you dont understand how these threads work,its only the gnat applause monkeys who
can post about brexit or Indy in either thread.


I's love to hear your thoughts on Brexit, the floors all yours. yes.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 04:46pm) *
So we can expect the SNP to hold one within the next 3 years, before the next election, which looks as though it could be a real game changer.



There will be a Westminster general election before then.
Kemedian
No material change there, unless the Lib Dems win... Definitely no material change there! laugh.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 14th Sep 2018, 05:04pm) *
No material change there, unless the Lib Dems win... Definitely no material change there! laugh.gif



Vince Cable will win the Mr Universe contest before that happens. laugh.gif
bilbo.s
http://www.barrheadboy.com/?p=1653
Dykejumper
Very amusing,does he live near you?
The answer to that $64k question is No,they will do nothing.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 17th Sep 2018, 10:10am) *
Very amusing,does he live near you?
The answer to that $64k question is No,they will do nothing.



What i find amusing is that you refuse to answer direct questions put to you yet answer one's that aren't, even when you haven't a clue what the answer is. laugh.gif
ashfield
Talk about sleepwalking into disaster sad.gif

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45498319
bilbo.s
QUOTE (ashfield @ 18th Sep 2018, 09:40am) *
Talk about sleepwalking into disaster sad.gif

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45498319



No worries! The collapse of the NHS is part of the Toerag masterplan.
peter.howden
magic
JAGZ1876
Moments wink.gif
Dykejumper
Europe has a lot of problems ,has problems with Mr Trump about tariffs, problems with sanctions on Russia, migration, Turkey, and so on so for Europe it’s a quite difficult time .
bilbo.s
DJ thinks EU is in for more difficult times than UK? rolleyes.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 20th Sep 2018, 09:47am) *
Europe has a lot of problems ,has problems with Mr Trump about tariffs, problems with sanctions on Russia, migration, Turkey, and so on so for Europe it’s a quite difficult time .



And what about an isolated UK after it's ripped out of the EU, will there be no tariff problems or immigration issues DJ? unsure.gif


Dykejumper
You will need to ask the Czech PM as it was him who said it.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 20th Sep 2018, 06:02pm) *
You will need to ask the Czech PM as it was him who said it.


I'm asking you a question?
bilbo.s
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/s...salzburg-ordeal


Suck this up, DJ!
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 20th Sep 2018, 10:52pm) *



Does DJ expect the EU leaders to be as beguiled with the Dancing Queen's fancy footwork as he is. laugh.gif
carmella
I wouldn’t have Theresa May’s job for anything. She looked decidedly uncomfortable, but I am inclined to think the sweating had something to do with her diabetes, as well as the airless room which some journalists also found uncomfortable.

It looks as if we might be heading for a no deal, but I also think Tusk is a very rude and ignorant man, who would want to do buisiness with him!
bilbo.s
This is a comment from the Comments page of today's Guardian....not mine. The author gave permission for me to use it but preferred not to be credited.

This is all about the respect that Theresa May has been banging on about recently. I thought, like the author, that May's version of respect needed a reply....here it is.

" So, Theresa, here is a question:

You said you can't figure out why the EU has rejected the Chequers proposal, that they should explain what it is that they don't agree with.

Really?

After all this time, you are asking such an inane question?

Is it just plain ignorance that you have succumbed to?

Or is it deliberate defiance then?

Surely, you understand what the EU's founding pillars are?

Freedom of labour, capital, goods and services.

How then did you presumptuously assume that Chequers fulfilled these?

By allocating 20% of the UK's economy to Chequers (goods), and leaving out 80% services), did you think you did yourself a favour? Did you think you could possibly come across as halfway intelligent?

Did you even bother to understand remotely what it means? Maybe you need to be schooled in some of the fundamentals. How on earth did you even think that you could have goods going over without services being involved? What is transport and shipping - if not a service?

The EU has told you over and over again that it would not work. Still you go there in total defiance and try to 'lord' it there - pretending that you know what you are doing - when you have given proof that you really don't know what you are doing.

And then to declare that yours is the "only deal" or no deal?

What gives you the right to declare that on behalf of everyone in the UK?

What is then, this arrogance you have clothed yourself with - that you deserve to have respect?

Have you even thought about the people in Ireland? Or the people in Gibraltar? Or even the people who feel left out in the EU - fellow citizens there? Where is your respect for them?

What about the people who have suffered as a result of your discriminatory policies - especially the Windrush generation? Where was your respect for them?

Where was your respect for integrity when you bribed the DUP 1 billion? Where is your respect now - for the office you are meant to uphold - by constantly colluding with dubious characters and charlatans?

And then you threaten, like your personal village idiot - Dominic Raab - who declares without a shred of integrity, that the UK will not pay its dues to the EU - IF they don't give us a good deal?

Do you think that any country in their right mind will want to work on deals with a country that reneges on its debts?

What have you been doing all this time? Playing chequers and perhaps an occasional game of darts - darting across the EU - behind everyone's back, trying to subvert individuals - divide and conquer?

Did you honestly think they are all as stupid and vapid as you?

Where is your respect for the British people - where you are knowingly throwing them under the bus - where you are deliberately choosing to ignore illegality and fraud - where you are deliberately choosing a path they did not choose - to be poorer and to be sold off to predatory disaster capitalists - who are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to dismantle every public service and department?

And have you even given a single thought about all the lawsuits that will be filed against the UK for breaking the terms of the FDI treaties - due to which the multinational companies invested billions of pounds into the UK - trusting that they would profit from the UK's relation to the EU? They will come, believe me, once Brexit happens.

You said last year there would be no general election. And yet, there you were - declaring one - why? You changed your mind? Oh good...

How did you arrogantly assume that nobody else has the right to change their mind? Especially when your government has itself shown us what a disaster awaits us - while Rees Mogg rubs his hands in glee?

Right now you are choosing the epitaph that History will write upon your tombstone in posterity. It will not be kind, we can assure you.

Sadly, hypocrisy and ignorant arrogance have a new champion and avatar in you.

Show us you are deserving of respect - by having the courage to stand up to the real enemies of the people - the Rees Moggs, the Johnsons, the Davises.

Act with respect towards others. Respect the rights of others. Respect their freedoms. Respect their right to honour and their right to change their mind.

And then - you will gain respect too."

JAGZ1876
QUOTE (carmella @ 22nd Sep 2018, 03:57pm) *
It looks as if we might be heading for a no deal, but I also think Tusk is a very rude and ignorant man, who would want to do buisiness with him!


In what way was he rude and ignorant Carmella?
carmella
His cake remarks and cherry, he’s a grown man for goodness sake.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (carmella @ 23rd Sep 2018, 06:20pm) *
His cake remarks and cherry, he’s a grown man for goodness sake.



It was quite witty compared to some of the comments about her plan from members of her own party.

She does want her Eccles cake and eat it though. laugh.gif
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