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lubbock
Just finished David Ray Griffin's book The new pearl harbour revisited...9/11 the cover up...Like most people I watched incredulously as tv images beamed the horrific events of that day into our living rooms....Never doubting for a minute that everything I seen was actual real time happenings.Even when the first hint of conspiracy emerged I thought here we go 1963 all over again ..but reading this book there really is something not quite right with the official 9/11 commission report...for instance doubt is cast over calls made from the flights by crew and passengers according to the author they simply didn't happen ...Sometimes the more you read into the events the more convincing they become...anyone agree that what was seen on tv was what was reported. and that the facts are as the commission report suggests and all else is conjecture and speculation .....
flam
Lubbock.. I believe what I saw that day happened in real life, but messages from the pilot or anything like that I have never heard about
lubbock
What the author says is that with the technology available at that time it would have been impossible for calls to be made using mobile phones from any of the flights ...also he suggests that the pentagon was hit by a missile rather than a plane ..the facts as he puts them are pretty convincing ...but as you say I saw the same images and find it difficult to deviate from what I witnessed,And what the author states in his book...but hey you never know ..
Betsy2009
It's only recently that mobile phones can be used on some planes (for technical reasons - interferes with plane's computers or something) but if you had an idea of what was happening then I'd imagine that 'safety first' would have been thrown out of the window. I think I've heard some interviews with relatives who said they'd had brief conversations with their loved ones before the crashes but I may be thinking about calls from the twin towers.
davidhendry
From day one, I thought the aircraft which crashed in the field was suspicious. No debris visible. Wings and tail fin? All very strange.

Davie.
tamhickey
Finding out that all of the hijackers were Saudis, backed with Saudi money, just as ISIL are being backed from the same country yet we allow it and scapegoat others in the Middle East. We have never been told the real truth about this atrocity and I doubt we ever will.
john.mcn


Cameron seems to think "non-violent extremism" like 9/11 and 7/11 conspiracists should be treated in the same way as Isis recruiters, so might be an idea to hide or burn that book before they bring that law in.
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (lubbock @ 10th Oct 2014, 09:32pm) *
also he suggests that the pentagon was hit by a missile rather than a plane ..the facts as he puts them are pretty convincing

David Griffin is an old hand at making saleable books out of conspiracy theories. These books will continue to appear, and ring the cash registers, even though all their claims have been debunked and shown to be wrong. The New Pearl Harbor repeats the same stuff that shows Griffin has virtually no grasp of engineering or mechanics or physics ; not surprising, perhaps, when his field is theology and religion. Pentagon hole not big enough for a plane? Not true. Griffin claims a 125ft wide plane can't go through an 18ft hole. Griffin expects an aircraft hitting a wall to behave like a cartoon character going through a wall, and leaving a cartoon-shaped hole. The 125ft width includes the wingspan, and the wings were ripped off and destroyed by reinforced columns in the Pentagon. The hole left by the fuselage wasn't 18ft wide, it was 90ft across, which Griffin would have known about had he bothered to study the the investigation report compiled by the American Structural and Civil Engineering Society.

I'm afraid there's piles of this junk, in all sorts of conspiracy web sites, which quote each other circularly, like '911truth'. (It may appear overly skeptical on my part, but I use a rule of thumb that any web site with the word 'truth' embedded in it, is anything but!)
Heather
Lubbock, the cousin of my American bro-in-law saw the plane hit the Pentagon.
He was standing at his office window when he saw the plane and thought it was flying too low, and when it hit the Pentagon he could hardly believe what he was seeing.

I am not speaking about a silly teenager, but about a grown up well educated man who knows what he saw.
irrie
I love conspiracy theories.9 out of 10 are probably rubbish but they make life more interesting.
ktv
ye I agree irrie

they make it sound convincing enough right enough and "some" of it is probably closer to the truth than the official story.

as for mobile phones on planes, regardless if they interfere with systems or not (they don't and never have btw) a mobile phone needs to be within a certain distance from a land based antenna which is mostly the reason they don't work at 35000 feet, but youl get a signal if your low enough and over a populated area so making a call would be easily done.
wombat
QUOTE (ktv @ 13th Oct 2014, 08:24am) *
ye I agree irrie

they make it sound convincing enough right enough and "some" of it is probably closer to the truth than the official story.


rolleyes.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnlM_Ws0t4 rolleyes.gif
Talisman
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 12th Oct 2014, 05:49pm) *
David Griffin is an old hand at making saleable books out of conspiracy theories. These books will continue to appear, and ring the cash registers, even though all their claims have been debunked and shown to be wrong. The New Pearl Harbor repeats the same stuff that shows Griffin has virtually no grasp of engineering or mechanics or physics ; not surprising, perhaps, when his field is theology and religion. Pentagon hole not big enough for a plane? Not true. Griffin claims a 125ft wide plane can't go through an 18ft hole. Griffin expects an aircraft hitting a wall to behave like a cartoon character going through a wall, and leaving a cartoon-shaped hole. The 125ft width includes the wingspan, and the wings were ripped off and destroyed by reinforced columns in the Pentagon. The hole left by the fuselage wasn't 18ft wide, it was 90ft across, which Griffin would have known about had he bothered to study the the investigation report compiled by the American Structural and Civil Engineering Society.

I'm afraid there's piles of this junk, in all sorts of conspiracy web sites, which quote each other circularly, like '911truth'. (It may appear overly skeptical on my part, but I use a rule of thumb that any web site with the word 'truth' embedded in it, is anything but!)

I am in full agreement with you on this matter. Dan Brown on re-writing the history of the world with the usual collection of obvious "truths" made a fortune from, not just the gullible, but from pseudo educated (yes my brain can see through all this) morons who set of in world wide quests to find their own Holy Grail. If it appears in print and some one published it, it must be true. Especially if it makes me (the postulant of hysteria) have a modicum of self importance to discuss that which science and education would not even envisage refuting.
Talisman
Total lies to convince the frivolous minded and lusting after sensation (oh the experts don't know everything brigade of educational failures) at the same time making money from the gullible and also rans in the human race who would hope to see their ignorance justified and their hatred for all things American and Jewish ( it has been proved by French media hacks that 9/11 was a contrived plot by the C.I.A and Mossad to discredit the real terrorists sponsored by Islamic fundamentalists and and the ruling dictatorship of Wahabists of Saudi Arabia).

There is nothing but shame at the end of those straws, grasped by "sleekit conspiracy theorists" who denigrate the survivors and the victims to make themselves appear to have the arcane knowledge that sets them apart from normal minded people.
wombat
rolleyes.gif so you believe the FBI's bullsh.t about finding the passport of one of the hijackers in the rubble while everything and everyone else was dust ?.then theres building 6 with a huge crater,gold bullion looted from vault, then building 7 collapses in controlled demolition?


aye right rolleyes.gif https://www.metabunk.org/wtc-6-what-happened-there.t1809/

Betsy2009
The truth is out there ...

but probably in one of the X Files.
wombat
:rolleyes:click pic for full size pic easier to read
Guest
My uncle knew a man who saw the events of 9/11 and clearly heard from ma scientist he knew who was in the Pentagon at the time and had an open line to the twin towers and heard "FIRST HAND" from a private detective who was monitoring alleged threats that the F.B.I. would not take seriously. He told my uncles , cousins friend that he heard conversations in Jewish that he had translated by Wikipedia between Mossad and the F.B.I. indicating that the explosives were in place in both locations. The subsequent aircraft flying into both locations were simulated by Hollywood studios in the pay of the C.I.A.
You cant argue with the facts. The President of the U.S.A. engineered all this for a second term in office.
wombat
rolleyes.gif worth a look thumbup.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCkeAIQJykk
wombat
rolleyes.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrunnLcG9Q
wombat
rolleyes.gif follow the money rolleyes.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMJ-5BmhkJs
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (Guest @ 3rd May 2016, 01:37am) *
You cant argue with the facts.

Having some would be a start.
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (Guest @ 3rd May 2016, 02:37am) *
My uncle knew a man who saw the events of 9/11 and clearly heard from ma scientist he knew who was in the Pentagon at the time and had an open line to the twin towers and heard "FIRST HAND" from a private detective who was monitoring alleged threats that the F.B.I. would not take seriously. He told my uncles , cousins friend that he heard conversations in Jewish that he had translated by Wikipedia between Mossad and the F.B.I. indicating that the explosives were in place in both locations. The subsequent aircraft flying into both locations were simulated by Hollywood studios in the pay of the C.I.A.
You cant argue with the facts. The President of the U.S.A. engineered all this for a second term in office.

wacko.gif wacko.gif
carmella
Some conspiracy theories I do believe are real, some are just that, i.e. 'theories'.

I've always had a feeling in my gut about the twin towers, purely for the reasons that it had been attacked once before, but more because of the way the towers collapsed. Anyone, who has witnessed a demolition could have recognized those towers falling, as a demolition, whether that was due to a man made explosives having been planted, or down to the way in which these towers had been constructed, I'm not qualified to say.

But, I've certainly been curious.
Alex MacPhee
There are many reasons to show why it wasn't a demolition. Even observationally, the towers collapsed from the top, pancake style. Why, is well understood.

Moreover, had there been a demolition, this would have required extensive and accurate placement of explosives. The collapse of the towers created seismic waves that were recorded at seismograph stations around the world - these are stations that monitor earth movements for earthquake predictions. The seismic waves from an explosion are known as p-waves. Those recorded from the collapse of the towers were s-waves. There were no p-waves. The towers collapsed, they were not blown up.
wombat
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 9th May 2016, 08:29am) *
Having some would be a start.


rolleyes.gif Erm! BUILDING 7 alex yes.gif
wombat
rolleyes.gif more proof alex biggrin.gif
wombat
rolleyes.gif interesting rolleyes.gif
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 9th May 2016, 10:29am) *
Having some would be a start.


Agree with Alex. If there was ONE piece of evidence, only one. The coffin chaser lawyers in America would be all over it and their courts would be jampacked with lawsuits for the next one hundred years. Seems Hollywood will never be short of script writers judging by the 'so called proof' put up to back up the conspiracy theory.
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (wombat @ 9th May 2016, 11:36pm) *
rolleyes.gif more proof alex biggrin.gif

Where's the seismic p-waves?
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (wombat @ 9th May 2016, 11:39pm) *
Attached image(s)
rolleyes.gif interesting rolleyes.gif

Mair keich!
Billy Boil
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 9th May 2016, 07:13pm) *
There are many reasons to show why it wasn't a demolition. Even observationally, the towers collapsed from the top, pancake style. Why, is well understood.

Moreover, had there been a demolition, this would have required extensive and accurate placement of explosives. The collapse of the towers created seismic waves that were recorded at seismograph stations around the world - these are stations that monitor earth movements for earthquake predictions. The seismic waves from an explosion are known as p-waves. Those recorded from the collapse of the towers were s-waves. There were no p-waves. The towers collapsed, they were not blown up.

Save your fingers Mr McPhee! Arguing with the conspiracy advocates is akin to arguing with fundamentalists of any ilk. They are right and have the proof to be so. All of them with superior (arcane) knowledge that defies any recourse to scientific investigation by those who are qualified above having left school at 12 years old.
wombat
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 10th May 2016, 05:37pm) *
Mair keich!



rolleyes.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOb92R34jxo
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (wombat @ 11th May 2016, 03:06am) *


As Ed Asner said it takes weeks and month to set up a controlled demolition. That means for weeks and months conspirators were burrowing all over the twin towers and this other building. Its a bit far fetched to think after all this time no concrete (pun intended) evidence has come forward. Where are the coffin chasers?
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (Billy Boil @ 11th May 2016, 01:04am) *
Arguing with the conspiracy advocates is akin to arguing with fundamentalists of any ilk.

I have a wee theory - it's not even a theory, it's just a hunch - that the conspiracy theorists know it's all a steaming pile of jobbies, but it's mair fun than walking the dug in the rain.
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 11th May 2016, 08:23am) *
As Ed Asner said it takes weeks and month to set up a controlled demolition. That means for weeks and months conspirators were burrowing all over the twin towers and this other building.

The great thing about conspiracy theories is the way they can morph counter evidence into supporting evidence. The fact that there has been no evidence of demolition guys burrowing into the Twin Towers to plant explosives only goes to show the intense efforts made by the demolition bombers to hide their nefarious activities. Inside job, then. It's obvious.
carmella
You make an excellent point about the p-waves of course.
wombat
rolleyes.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A rolleyes.gif
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (wombat @ 11th May 2016, 10:04pm) *

Usual rules apply here : a link without any explanatory or supporting comment from the poster is not worth clicking on!
wombat
:rolleyes:beams CUT by thermite not melted,too many unanswered questions
Alex MacPhee
Not cut by thermite. That's junk, and been debunked a long time ago. (Thermite burns chaotically. See if you can figure out how much would be needed to burn through WTC columns. Free clue : it's measured in tonnes.)

You've not been keeping up ...
wombat
rolleyes.gif niels harrit emeritus professor sez it was so there biggrin.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (wombat @ 11th May 2016, 11:21pm) *
niels harrit emeritus professor sez it was so there

A discredited and retired ex-professor who didn't know what he was talking about, and wouldn't put his 'scientific findings' on 'nano-thermite' for peer review.

You're not keeping up.
wombat
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 12th May 2016, 12:10am) *
A discredited and retired ex-professor who didn't know what he was talking about, and wouldn't put his 'scientific findings' on 'nano-thermite' for peer review.

You're not keeping up.



:lol:alex click on pic
Alex MacPhee
Nah, they minions are annoyin wee buggers.

A bit like masel.
Billy Boil
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 11th May 2016, 11:10pm) *
A discredited and retired ex-professor who didn't know what he was talking about, and wouldn't put his 'scientific findings' on 'nano-thermite' for peer review.

You're not keeping up.

Whence does this expert knowledge of explosives derive from? Hill's Trust Primary, St. Anthony's Govan?

I did learn to prime a "Mills Bomb" old hand grenade for 4 or 7 second fuse. But it seems our erstwhile "conspiritists" have the knowledge of what it akes to bring down the 'Twin Towers" and the pentagon!

Possibly it is my knowledge of creating mass destruction that is amiss.
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (Billy Boil @ 16th May 2016, 09:33pm) *
Possibly it is my knowledge of creating mass destruction that is amiss.

I've never forgotten the headlines in the Scottish Daily Express 'way back in the early seventies, proclaiming its shock that bairns in school were being taught how to make atomic bombs ... 'We make A-bomb' it yelled on the front page, using only information and materials from O-grade science. Jeez-o, whit were they leftwing schools gettin up tae noo?

On closer inspection, turns out what they'd made was a box with wires in it, but nothing else. Nae Uranium, nae Plutonium, nae nothing. And buried right in the bottom of the breathless article, a note that if they'd been able to get nuclear materials and ither bomb making stuff, they'd have been able to make a bomb.

Aye, and I discovered a cure for cancer. All that was missing was the cure for cancer, but other than that, it was a world first cure for cancer.

That, incidentally, is when I discovered that the Daily Express was keich, and stopped buying it.
wombat
rolleyes.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG3uaQxc8uQ yes.gif
Betsy2009
An American-born businessman wants to raise 1m to stage a bizarre recreation of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York.

Paul Salo, who now lives in Thailand, has said he wants to purchase a 'Boeing 747' and smash it into the side of an empty building in the countryside at 500mph.

He describes it as an 'important project' to prove conspiracy theories about the terror atrocities 'once and for all'.

Mr Salo is hoping to crowdfund the event and is selling 'front-row seats' to the outlandish spectacle in Thailand for $5000 each (3,500).

In a video promoting the 'reconstruction', he said: "If you doubt anything about 9/11 we want to blast this to smithereens or we want to prove you completely right.

"We're going to purchase a 747 or equivalent aircraft that's about to go out of service, we're going to fill it full of jet fuel, we're going to purchase a building that's about to be torn down in the countryside... and we're going to crash it at 500 miles per hour into that building.

"If there's just a smoking hole in the building and nothing happens, you pretty much know it was a hoax, right? Cos it's obvious, right?
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (wombat @ 16th May 2016, 10:55pm) *

Nah. Unannotated links are never worth following through.
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