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nige51
My wife and I have just returned from Normandy where we were searching for my wife's uncle who was killed in the action at Mondrainville on 28th June 1944. Lt.A.M.Loudon SCoy was shot in Mondrainville during Operation Epsom. When he was killed he was with two others, Archie Mason and another. They were wounded and escaped. Archie went back with padre James Taylor and Lt. Loudon was identified by Archie as the germans had taken his id discs, watch and compass. Padre James Taylor officiated and Lt. Loudon was buried where he had fallen. Padre James Taylor was killed a couple of days later. Lt. Loudon is remembered on one of the Bayeux panels but has no marked grave. We have been trying to find him. What we can't work out is he was identified and buried but there is no marked grave in any of the cemetaries, we have looked at every grave stone in all the appropriate cemetaries. If for some reason he was unidentified he surely would have had his regiment or division and his rank marked on his headstone! So that's where we are when we came across this board. Hoping someone may add to this. We have the concise regimental history which he is mentioned in, but would like to find the full version. Thanks Nigel and Pam nee Loudon
dugald_old
Nige51, I cannot suggest anything to you other than to get in touch with the Commonwealth Graves Commission. This is the simplest type of search available. If there is a grave, and it seems according to what you say, that there must be, then the Commission will be aware of it. Simply Google Commonwealth Graves Commission, and if you haven't already tried them, I'm sure they will do everything possible to help you. Good Luck.
mlconnelly
Hello nige51. You could try the Army Personnel website, you will find loads of information there. They are based at St Kentigern House, Brown St Glasgow and the phone number is 0141-248-7890. As with most things, there may be a cost for any information they might have to offer but, as Dugald says, the best place to start would be the Commonwealth Gave Commission. Good luck. Mary
dugald_old
Nige it has just occurred to me that your use of "2nd Glasgow Highlander" is a bit confusing. The title "Glasgow Highlander" as far as I'm aware belonged only to the 9th Btn HLI, and I'm not aware at all of anything to do with the "2nd" Btn. Maybe if you have no luck you could try dropping the "2nd Glasgow Highlander" title when searching and go simply for the "HLI" (that is , the "Highland Light Infantry") on the assumption that this was the regiment... which won't necessarily be the case. Why do I say this? Well, the HLI was not a part of the 51st Highland Division, whose members could be called "highlanders"; it was really a Lowland division and it's members would not be called "highlanders". Keep trying.
nige51
Hi and thanks everyone for input. Mary will try the Army Personnel Site and hopefully find out something. Dugald as far as I can make out and I must admit the HLI and City of Glasgow Regiment, Glasgow Highlanders tags I have been trying to sort out in my head!!

Lt.A.M. Loudon is mentioned in the concise history of the Glasgow Highlanders. Gravestones for the 2nd Battalion Glasgow Highlanders also carry the HLI inscription. Some of the headstones with the HLI crest on them are for soldiers from the 2nd Battalion Glasgow Highlanders. The 10th Battalion HLI also have City of Glasgow Regiment after it. So this is what I'm trying to sort out.

Nigel
Raymond Bell
Hi Just adding to this thread

The Glasgow Highlanders - 9th HLI raised two battalions during WW2

The first battalion came under the 52nd Lowland Division and the second under 15th Scottish Division

Nige51 - As you said he and the padre are mentioned in the concise history of the 2nd Bn GH and believe you already have a copy of this

Dugald - May have thought that there was only one battalion but as I said they raised two - since they were different Divisions they I believe never met up and fought together although they may have met in passing through areas

Originally - they were raised in 1868 and by 1908 took the name 9th Battalion HLI (Glasgow Highlanders) during WW1 they raised 3 battalions and as I said WW2 raised two battalions
When they formed the idea came that they could raise men who came from the Highlands and lived in Glasgow and basically were the Highlanders from Glasgow - Thus The Glasgow Highlanders

Queen Victoria herself decreed that this force would wear an identical uniform of the Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch) and basically they were kitted out as the Black Watch Regiment - the differences were the badge but the tarten they wore was No 1 Government tarten and they were kilted in comparison to the remainder of the HLI who mostly wore tarten Trews (Trousers)

I am the chairman of the Glasgow Highlanders Association at present - and hope this bit of information helps

I don't really do research but if I can help anyone I have some books on The Glasgow Highlanders and their WW1 War Diary also the concise history of both battalions and a few others -

My email is

dinger105@hotmail.com

I will have a look and see if I can find out anything on Nige51's relative

Dinger
Raymond Bell -
Raymond Bell
Hi Nigel

Checked the war graves and if I have the right soldier shows

Alastair Montgomery Loudon Lt

Regt Number 264671

Killed 28 June 1944

2 HLI - although we know he was 2nd Glasgow Highlanders from the concise history of 2 GH

Remembered on Panel 17 Col 2 at Bayeux Memorial

Only additional info at this stage is he was born in Greenock and lived in Ayrshire

The war graves show him as 2nd Bn HLI but you know he was 2nd Bn Glasgow Highlanders and he shows in the concise history of 2 GH on their casualty list and as the Glasgow Highlanders were 9th HLI they have shown him as HLI rather than Glasgow Highlanders - certainly I have came across this before during battlefield tours that I have been on for WW1 casualties

As he is remembered on a memorial wall it may mean they never recovered his body his name would have been listed because they knew he had been killed as you said witnessed and identified by Archie Mason and he was buried where he fell I am presuming later his body would have been recovered but if the unit recovering a body which had no identification on it as you said the Germans had taken his ID discs his body may have been buried under "Known only to God" or an unknown soldier

Also normally the padre or someone within the unit dealing with casualty lists would record the location of the soldiers burial place so it could be recovered later so I wonder how the padre marked his grave where he fell and when he passed the details onto the casualty officer or Battalion Headquarters

As I said it may be that he is listed on a headstone as "A soldier known only to God"

I do not have the 2nd GH - WW2 War Diary but I will try and see if I can find someone who has as it may list in the diary something about him

So if anyone reading this has a copy of their war diary you may have some more information for Nigel if you could post and see if we can help him

Thanks

Dinger
Raymond Bell
Raymond Bell
Hi Nigel

I see Lt Loudon is mentioned on the following


http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1268.html

Dinger
wellfield
Very interesting history here!....Thanks!
dugald_old
You are a proper fountain of HLI regimental knowledge Raymond. This clears up the puzzle i had : I couldn't figure out the use of two Btns in one 9th Btn (let alone three!) , but now i see the reason. I was going to suggest to Nigel that if he could check out the badges (on gravestones for example) he could establish exactly which unit the uncle served with. In the Great War the 9th Btn badge appeared more like a Black Watch badge than an HLI badge. Anyway, since i wasn;t sure about this I chose not to mention it. Thank you again very much for your help Raymond.I'm sure Nigel will appreciate your help.
Raymond Bell
Nigel I have copied this from your Thanks for Help thread just to continue the original thread

Hi
Thanks for your help. We are slowly trying to put together Lt Loudons details. We are hoping to find details about the position of his burial and then find out if he was moved to a cemetery later. The complication may be that the padre, a Rev. James Taylor who was attached to the 2 GH at the time, and who performed the burial on the spot where Lt. Loudon was killed, also was killed one or two days later. Did the padre actually manage to pass on the location of this burial before he was killed? We think be must have as the record of Lt. Loudons death is recorded so presumably his burial was too. Now to try and find where that was!

Nige51
Raymond Bell
mlconnelly Hope you don't mind that I copied your comment to Nigel's missing Highlander thread

Good luck nige51. thumbup.gif
Raymond Bell
Hi Nigel

I see that you have opened a new thread "Thanks for Help" - that's why you could not find some of your information as some of it is under "missing 2nd Glasgow Highlander" thread you should just add to original thread rather than starting a new one just makes it easier for people to follow your missing highlander thread. I am away for a couple of weeks but when I get back I will see if our Regimental Museum at 2 Scots (RHF) Sauchiehall Street Glasgow has any information on your wife's uncle although they don't hold a lot of details but I'll get back to you if I find anything.

Raymond
Raymond Bell
Hi

Lt Alistair Montgomery Loudon attended Glasgow Academy and is remembered on their roll of honour at


http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic5624.html

Nigel I have PM you can you email me - Thanks

Dinger
Raymond Bell
Raymond Bell
Hi Nigel

Can you check your PMs

I have managed to find a group photo of the 2nd Bn Glasgow Highlanders - The padre (Taylor) who carried out the service for Lt Loudon is on the left on the centre line but you will see by the names attached Lt Loudon was not present when the photo was taken

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment


Just another bit of the jig saw

Raymond
Dinger
Raymond Bell
Just to continue on this thread - A lad (Jim McNab) from Australia picked up Nigel's post and has passed on some information on Lt Loudon.

Jim's dad was a crewman in Lt Loudon's Bren Bun Carrier and was with him at the time of his death and I have passed on some information to Nigel and hopefully both are in contact with each other.

I want to thank everyone who contributed to Nigel's post and I wish him luck in his search.

Raymond Bell
Dinger
dugald_old
Wow, an absolutely incredible story Raymond! To obtain word about what actually happened to the sought-after 9th Btn. HLI officer from distant Australia highlights just how small our world has become... and all through the son of a man who was actually serving as a part of Lt Loudon's Bren gun carrier's crew when the Lieutenant was killed! Wow indeed!

Thank you for letting us know the outcome of your search. I found the search very interesting as well as informative. I think too, the Glasgow Guide Discussion Board deserves a sincere "attaboy" for its usefulness in helping bring about a happy conclusion to Nigel's search... attaboy GG!

Cheers, Dugald.

PS. You will notice I used "9th" Btn. HLI rather than 2nd Btn... not sure which is correct
Raymond Bell
Hi Dugald

Yes as you said the power of the internet and sites like this amazing!

The 2 Glasgow Highlanders during WW2 were normally designated 1 GH and 2 GH

And the amazing fact was that Jim was just browsing the net when he found this site what are the chances of that?

Although I had the same thing happen when I did a story of the forming of the Glasgow Highlanders in 1886 and I was sent a photo of a soldier wearing uniform from about 1890 that I got from a lady in Tasmania - the photo was a relation to the lady, after I posted the story I received an email from a lady in New York asking how I managed to get a photo of her relative and she had a similar photo displayed in her house. I informed her how I obtained the photo and now two families have been united - Great that when I feel that I have helped in some small way.

The Group Photo I posted that showed all the officers of GH sadly Lt Loudon missed the photo for whatever reason as it would have been great to put a face to the name, this photo was sent to me by one of our GH members who's relative was Captain IPS Wood shown in the photo

So long live this site and the internet making a smaller world


Raymond Bell
Dinger
nige51
It has been a while since I last posted on here, apologies. We are still on the track of Lt. Loudon but as yet no further forward. Have been trying to confirm details and theories and even have a friend of mine in France who studies Operation Epsom and the Scots Corridor looking!

As I actually own a "Bren Gun Carrier", mine is a Universal Carrier, I was totally amazed when I actually discovered Lt. Loudon was a carrier commander. My father was also a Lt. and a carrier officer in the Indian Army. So in my search through wartime photographs of carriers I think I have found one that shows Lt. Loudon, but still have to confirm it which is why I am posting it on here. Photo was taken during Operation Epsom.
Lt. Loudon, if it is him and it certainly looks like him, is in the lead carrier commanders position sitting up. My questions are, the badges on his sleeve do they fit the form worn by GH? As far as the carrier is concerned, it is marked up correctly for the senior regiment (61) of the 15th Scottish Division which is the GH during Epsom, assuming the 61 is on a red square. On the front mudguard there is what looks like a 5 or an S with a line through it. I know carrier had a Bridge Plate which was usually a number 4 or 5 in black on a yellow disc but with no line through it, which this may be, or is it S to denote Support Coy? Did they mark the Support Coy this way?
Lastly, the column looks like a support company. Behind the lead carrier are several Loyd Carriers towing 6 pdr AT guns with the first one called Loch Lomond. Can anyone confirm this column as the Support Company of the Glasgow Highlanders?
Many thanks
Nigel
Click to view attachment
Raymond Bell
Click to view attachmentHi Nigel

I have emailed you some information that the lads on WW2Talk submitted hopefully might help

Keep in touch

Merry Christmas and happy new year to Nigel and his family and all the forum members

Dinger

I believe this is the units sleeve markings?
Keith Kerrison
Whilst looking into my father's military history I came to this site. I have a photo taken 1943/44 at Morton Hall, Keighley, West Yorkshire. My father, Stanley Kerrison, is 2nd row, 6th from the right (Sgt in kilt).

There is also a copy of a reunion dinner programme from 1990 that might have some familiar names.

This board won't allow my attachments so if possible can you give an email address where they can sent to.

My understanding of the correct designation is: 2nd Bn. Glasgow Highlanders (9th HLI).
GG
Hi Keith,

Email gg@glasgowguide.co.uk and I will be pleased to add your photo.

GG.
GG
Please find attached the photos Keith sent on.

Great photo taken at Morton Hall towards the end of the war.

Thanks.

GG.
GG
P.S. does anyone know why the reunion of the Carriers (2nd Bn. The Glasgow Highlanders) was held in Newcastle?

GG.
*Matt*
QUOTE (GG @ 15th Oct 2016, 11:55am) *
Please find attached the photos Keith sent on.

Great photo taken at Morton Hall towards the end of the war.

Thanks.

GG.

Hi, a bit late to the party here, but just starting to find out more about my grandad, Stephen Oliver who was in 2nd Bn Glasgow Highlanders. I can see him in this photo! 5th row back and 5th in from right.
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