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Isobel
Massive tragedy in Connecticut Us. 18 kids are dead. At this time not sure how many of the staff have also been killed.Can you imagine the parents hearing this news days before Christmas.I am hoping none of wee Mags grand kids are involved in this.
Doug1
I've just picked this up on the news. With you Isobel on all you say especially about Mags. Ever so tragic and devastating to all involved. Deepest sympathies to all the families and friends
wee mags
I would like to let you all know that Thank god my youngest grandaughter who lives in Newtown and goes to school there is safe ,my son let me know ,my heart and prayers go out to the other children and the teachers who witnessed this horrible thing and to the parents who have to face it my god hoe awful ,
my next comment is WHY????????????innocent children who never hurt anyone ,what has the world come to ? thank you all for your concern Mags
Isobel
Thank god Mags. I am happy you posted so fast. I had a feeling that someone in your family lived in the area.So sad , why oh why do they allow them to buy guns?. I will never understand that.
GG
A most terrible tragedy. Awful scenes.

Thanks for letting us know your family is safe, wee mags.

GG
Ossie
I'm at a loss trying to express my feelings . Absolutely tragic.
Dylan
I also am at a loss to comprehend this tragedy.Words fail me.

Good news about your wee Grandaughter Mags.

The American Gun Lobby will be preparing their press release. angry.gif
Anne1
So glad Lexi is safe Margaret, god help all those other Mums & Dads who have lost a child, what has the world become when wee innocent souls are murdered by some animal sad.gif
A Mackinnon
What a terrible tragedy committed by a cowardly bastard, killing a classroom full of wee weans & their teacher(s) May he burn in hell forever.
JAGZ1876
Mindless....Why?
Heather
Mags, I was thinking about you and hoping that none of your g'children were involved.
Thank God your g'daughter is safe.

God help the parents of the murdered children, it's tragic.
God only knows how they will get through this. It's bad enough at anytime, but somehow it's worse at this time of year when the children and their Parents would be looking forward to Christmas.
I can't imagine how those Parents will ever enjoy Christmas again.
My sympathy and prayers are with them.

Apparently the mother of the gunman is a Teacher in the School and she was also killed as well as most of children in her classroom.

The gunman is dead and his older brother has been arrested.
wee mags
This was posted on the Newtown site,
hoboken was know for Frank Sinatra,theCake Boss and now this horrible monster,
A Mackinnon
So far 20 wee children & 8 adults killed. angry.gif
tombro
And the citizens of the United States Of America will continue to assert their right to bear arms in defence of themselves, despite the fact that most of those arms are held by career criminals, persons with insecure mind sets or others who are just plain crazy and with an inclination to shooting anyone, while blaming their actions on an insecure upbringing.

While my thoughts, and those of just about everyone else on this forum, go out to the victims and their families, the sad fact is that nothing will change and these devastating events will continue to occur until someone in power, in the world's so called greatest country, grabs the 'gun lobby' bull by the horns and decides to do something about it, despite what it may do to their political careers !

Sadly, I can't remember any politician, world wide, giving up his position for a cause that might deem him or her unelectable the next time the people in his constituency vote. The pay packet is too great to even consider it !

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
irrie
Heartfelt sympathy to all concerned. When will these tragedies ever end ?
wee mags
Tombro Not ALL AMERICANS believe in the right to bear arms ,and plase I think this is about the poor children and adults who lives were taken away by some monster,maybe you should vent your anger towords America in some other post thank you mags
Heather
The people living in Newtown must all be grief stricken.

This terrible tragedy affects parents, brothers, sisters, g'parents and the extended families and friends.
The children are all so young, it's heart breaking.
Then there are the children of the Teachers who will also have to cope with this. God love them.

Surely the gunman must have serious mental problems to do such a terrible thing.
Rab
After watching the ghastly and distressing news and feeling deeply for the families devastated by this tragedy last evening, I switched on to a film on Sky a few minutes later. It was called 'COBRA' which starred Silvester Stallone. The first scene involved a heavily armed gunman walking into a crowded supermarket and brazenly gunning down several shoppers, before our 'hero cop' Stallone appears and simply shoots him dead. In the space of a few seconds, the sickening scenes were enough for me to turn it off, not just because of the school shootings and the stark similarity to todays events, it immediately made me wonder why the American 'entertainment' media is so besotted with violence and killing by shooting. I am sure, as Mags says, the majority of the population will have nothing to do with firearms, but the film and TV industry must accept a lot of the blame by putting this in front of mentally deficient persons and the young and easily persuaded. Sky documentaries, which I generally enjoy, are crammed with gun-associated fanaticism, from making them, adapting them, and generally glorifying them. Basically, it is down to the Government to clamp down on sales etc, but obviously, the gun lobby will prevail as always and this type of tragedy is something the suffering populace will have to live with until someone see sense. I wont hold my breath. IMHO of course.
Very bad programming SKY!! angry.gif
RIP. 'Suffer the little children'.
wellfield
definately a gun mentality ,held by some,not all, thank goodness...glad your wee one was fortunate wee mags.My thoughts are with all these people who lost a loved one.
Isobel
Click to view attachment
Melody
Mags, thank God you and yours are safe and well. wub.gif

God help those poor souls who have lost those precious children and family. It's a mind numbing tragedy which is so difficult to deal with.
Dylan
A spokesman for the USA Gun Lobby has said that it is deplorable that no one in the School was armed.?
JAGZ1876
I'm surprised that after all the previous incidents that schools don't have armed guard(s) as a requirement.
wee mags
Iam surpised that no one from the Gun lobbiest have expresed their sorrow for the lives that were lost ,you have to know where this wee school is to pass judgment ,it is in a lovely part of Connecticut ,,and kind of quiet,its like an old fashioned town
petunia
I shed a tear with President Obama yesterday for the senseless killing of these little kids and adults.
This town is situated 80miles north east of New York where people live for peace and quiet, small town America, if it can happen there it can happen anywhere, too many schools are the target for these evil beings.
God bless them all.
wellfield
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 16th Dec 2012, 04:20am) *
I'm surprised that after all the previous incidents that schools don't have armed guard(s) as a requirement.

I can just picture that!...the principle with the double sixshooters.......the school religious instructor with a glock.....the crossing guard with a baseball bat!...all we need is a *GUN CONTROL LAW!!!...with teeth
bilbo.s
Wellfield, More rigorous legislation and enforcement did not unfortunately stop the disasters in Scotland and Norway.
Dylan
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 16th Dec 2012, 11:20am) *
I'm surprised that after all the previous incidents that schools don't have armed guard(s) as a requirement.



When I see this being put forward as a solution I despair. !!
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (wellfield @ 16th Dec 2012, 07:12pm) *
I can just picture that!...the principle with the double sixshooters.......the school religious instructor with a glock.....the crossing guard with a baseball bat!...all we need is a *GUN CONTROL LAW!!!...with teeth


I never said that the school staff should be armed wellfield, but surely if bank's, casino's etc feel the need for armed guards to protect their money then the lives of young children should have the same if not more protection, if by having one discreet armed guard saves the life of one child while you sort out your "GUN CONTROL LAW WITH TEETH" then it must surely be worth trying.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Dylan @ 16th Dec 2012, 07:24pm) *
When I see this being put forward as a solution I despair. !!


Not as much as i despair when i hear of yet another atrocity.

I was not putting forward a solution Dylan, only surprise that there is not tougher security in schools.

How would you tackle the problem Dylan?
Foxy52
In most major cities over here we have metal detectors that pupils have to go through, plus in the Detroit area there are armed guards in the high schools, plus a dedicated police force just for the schools. This is only in the junior and high schools though, not in the primary schools. It was instituted a few years ago because of the rising problem with gangs in the schools, 13 through 18 year old kids were taking guns to school with the intent of using them against rival gang members also at that school. The problem is not so bad now, there is still the odd one or two try to smuggle them into the school, but for the most part the security measures work.
Nothing is going to work against a deranged individual who for whatever reason takes his rage out on innocents, lets face it what easier target could they have but defensless children.
Foxy
A Mackinnon
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 16th Dec 2012, 09:00pm) *
Not as much as i despair when i hear of yet another atrocity.

I was not putting forward a solution Dylan, only surprise that there is not tougher security in schools.

How would you tackle the problem Dylan?



Jags, many school's in the "inner City's" of America do indeed have armed guards, as well as metal detector airport type security, but this is just a wee town ...like Dunblane... with no way, short of turning all schools into armed camps, to prevent such cowardly bastards committing such atrocities. angry.gif

This school actual had a "buzz-in" security system in place. What was it my dad use to say, "Locks only keep an honest man out"!!
Dylan
More guns will not result in less gun deaths.

Guns are the the problem.

Most if not all of these atrocities were caused by kids getting guns from their own homes. !

Columbine is another example.

The Americans must tighten up their gun laws and seriously look at " The Right To Bear Arms ".

However the Gun Lobby is so strong that no Politician has the Balls to mount a serious challenge.

Michael moore's Film, 2002, Bowling For Columbine dealt with this superbly and he was savaged by the Gun Lobby , mainly by Charton Heston.

Still a great Film.!
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (A Mackinnon @ 16th Dec 2012, 09:21pm) *
Jags, many school's in the "inner City's" of America do indeed have armed guards


Thanks Mac and Foxy for your posts, perhaps my question about Armed guards wasn't as far out there as some on here would have had us imagine.
Dylan
That is why I despair !!!!!
TeeHeeHee
My heart went out to the parents and town's people where this terrible event took place.
The shooter shot his own mother; who had taught him how to use fire arms, in the face first, before taking her favourite weapons and turning on these children and their teachers.
I can appreciate how some of our members might think armed guards in schools might be a deterant but who would ever consider an infant school as being in need of armed protection in the first place?
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 16th Dec 2012, 11:38pm) *
I can appreciate how some of our members might think armed guards in schools might be a deterant

but who would ever consider an infant school as being in need of armed protection in the first place?

THH, at no time have i said armed guards would act as a deterrent, as for the second point, one word...............Dunblane.
TeeHeeHee
I didn't say "said" I said "ThinK armed guards might act as a deterant". It was only a general observation but not directed at anyone in particular.
I remember being surprised one time while working near Nuremberg and being invited along to a gun club by a workmate to fire off his Sig-Sauer. Sitting at a table for drinks later with him and 4 of his mates I learned that between them they owned more than 20 hand guns and about 6 or 7 rifles ... all licenced and legal. I wondered if they knew something that I didn't. These were all guys in their early 20's.
It's way too easy to obtain firearms, even here in Germany. I meet hunters in the forest a few times a week too and they'll shoot anything; including your dog (and say they thought it was a wild boar) or a cat (and say they thought it was a fox).
Gun owning is; to a certain degree, a mentality thing and that's the problem - knowing the mental state of the gun owner.
Gun control must be tightened well up.
TeeHeeHee
This alone says a lot (from today's paper)

QUOTE
A Republican Congressman said that elementary school principals should be armed and have access to assault rifles in order to kill potential shooters.

Representative Louie Gohmert theorized that if the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School had an M-4 rifle in her office, then she would have been able to shoot Adam Lanza before he proceeded to kill 20 students and six adults at the Newtown, Connecticut school.

'I wish to God she had had an M-4 in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids,' he said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...l#ixzz2FJQohrNu

Dylan
It would appear opinion is down to .--

1) Fewer Guns =Fewer Gun Deaths.

OR

2) More Guns = Fewer Gun Deaths.

????.
Isobel
Our schools are locked and you have to buzz to get in. We thought this was a bit much but hey if that's what it takes so be it. My girls are 31, and 33, when they attended the school the doors were wide open anyone could just walk in These days are long gone. But the thought of metal detectors and guns no way would I agree with that.
We do have a problem of guns getting across our borders from the states. Its a sad fact.
So I agree with what Dylan has been saying address the problem America and get rid of the guns. However right now is not the best time to debate this. In the midst of such a tragedy we should all turn to god for guidance .I hope some of the US politicians come to their senses.
This has to stop to may innocent families are being torn apart with so much violence.
A Mackinnon
Last week I was at my 4yr old grandson's Junior Kindergartens Christmas concert, over 40 fresh faced wee boys & girls, all excited, went onto the stage & sung four songs for our pleasure & delight.

This week, I am watching parents & grandparents, a whole town, overcome by grief & I can only imagine the pain they are going through not being able to watch their children's concerts this or any other year!

The first of the murdered wee babies are getting buried today, the shock & horror of such an event is slowly turning to mourning & anger that such a thing could happen.

Will it never end??

JAGZ1876
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 17th Dec 2012, 12:36pm) *
I didn't say "said" I said "ThinK armed guards might act as a deterant".


I stand corrected THH, what i should have said was " At no time did i think armed guards would act as a deterrent" tongue.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Isobel @ 17th Dec 2012, 02:38pm) *
... In the midst of such a tragedy we should all turn to god for guidance ...

I know you'll be angry with me Isabel but, honestly, what will god do about it? This is not the first time it's happened and it won't; unfortunately, be the last. What guidance has He come up with regarding the many such atrocities to date?
This is something that the citizens must ensure that the elected officials do something about, by rigorous control and enforcement of stringent gun laws.
Which normal citizen has a genuine need for an armoury at home?
None!
Doug1
Very sad to see so many young children killed in this horrific crime, a crime against humanity. Sadly in America this tragedy will bring about no change to their gun laws as America has almost throughout it's history had a gun culture and the NRA is a very powerful force in the country and even the bravest of politicians would shy away from taking them on
The irony is that violence begets violence and instead of cutting back on guns people may decide to arm themselves more. What will probably happen is that classrooms will become like mini jails with guards guarding the kids
Rab
Although guns were the weapons used in this tragic incident, we must also remember that it was perpetrated by a deranged individual who, for whatever twisted reason, decided to take many lives before taking his own and used guns which were easily to hand. Any one of us, could go to a kitchen drawer, remove a handful of knives, head for any crowded place and commit a similar atrocity. Remember the primary school in Wolverhampton, which in 1996 was attacked by a man with a large knife, and 3 children and four staff were slashed, fortunately with no fatalities. It is not the weapon that commits the crime, it's the person using it - and there lies the problem. How do we identify these people? We cannot. Guns are only a part of the problem.
wee mags
too true Rab ,it seems his other was a woman who liked Guns they were all registered in her name ,my feeling is WHY? what do you need guns for ,i feel sorry for the first responder for God only knows what they saw ,I hope they can find some kind of peace
Doug1
Re. My post from yesterday #45

"The irony is that violence begets violence and instead of cutting back on guns people may decide to arm themselves more. What will probably happen is that classrooms will become like mini jails with guards guarding the kids"

Just a few minutes ago I was watching the breakfast BBC news and there was a snippet showing an American gun shop retailer saying how business was booming since the school attack and this was followed by us being told that the overall gun business in the USA was also booming

What does that tell us !!
bilbo.s
I will not say I am in favour of that, but one thing it does tell us is, that people have no faith in the authorities to protect them and therefore decide to protect themselves. Is that much different from society in other countries, including UK ? Guns are not so easily come-by in the UK, and so the law-abiding citizen is at the mercy of the criminal, because, trust me, the law is incapable of protecting the innocent. Civilisation is not perfect- it's just the best we have.

If you have never been a victim of crime, whether robbery, assault, mugging etc, you have just been lucky.
tombro
I made an early reply on this topic and was berated because I expressed the opinion that, until someone in the USA develops the b*lls to fight against the 'Right to Bear Arms' mentality, nothing will change.

Wee Mags, I was not venting rage against America and my opinions do truly belong on this forum ! Like everyone throughout the world (and as a teacher of forty years experience now teaching eight year old kids myself) I did express my disgust at what had happened. God forbid I should ever be in the situation where some deranged person walks into my classroom and starts to shoot any of the kids with whom I have spent the year forming a familiar relationship with. But with Australian Gun Laws being what they now are (after the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania), I feel very secure that such an event is unlikely to happen !

I'm not the only one to express the opinion on this forum but, until America gets it right on Gun Laws, such events are likely to continue happening.

I accept that Barrack Obama has not pleased all Americans, but he is now in a position to impose his image on America. It would be so fantastic if he were to be actually remembered for giving Americans hope in their continued fight against gun crime in his country, rather than just being remembered as the token coloured person who became the first of his kind to become President.

Wee Mags, I do have extreme sympathies for the victims of this horrific event and, if any of them had been members of your family, related to the wonderful people on GG, those thoughts would have been doubled and even trebled for GG provides an outlet to the world that has allowed me to explore my Glasgow Roots and, for that, I am ever grateful.

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
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