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Full Version: Alex Salmond Is A ' Caledonian Hitler '
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GG

David Starkey, one of Britain's most high-profile historians, has described Scotland's First Minister as a 'Caledonian Hitler'. The historian, who in 2010 compared Glasgow to a 'state-subsidised backwater', used a speech in a debate about British history to claim that Alex Salmond and the Fuhrer shared a common ability to court popularity by "tapping into nationalism and the idea of a common enemy".

Speaking at a packed debate hosted by a centre-right think tank on the teaching of history in UK schools, Starkey went on to say that Mr Salmond thinks that "the English, like the Jews, are everywhere". He also argued that Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler was "more democratically elected" then the Scottish premier, whose party won a landslide victory in last year's Holyrood election.

First Minister Salmond responded by saying that Starkey's comments were "an insult to Scotland and to the people of Scotland" and predicted they will provoke outrage and mockery.

GG.
john.mcn
The English are even in his own party ohmy.gif Michael Russell was born and raised in Kent, does Alex know??

Starkey while bloody smart is a crackpot, either that or he craves the attention he gets when he says something controversial.
Anyway has Salmond ever potrayed 'the English' as the enemy, i always thought he regards them as much as victims of the Union as us.
Jupiter
Is he far wrong when he says Salmond,"taps into nationalism?" I dont think so and I dont think Salmond is wrong either.As far as I can see he is one politician who leads a party with Scotland at heart.
I certainly dont agree with his notion of a common enemy.Alex Salmond to the best of my knowledge has never displayed enmity towards England.
He ultimately wants an Independant Scotland ..thats the reason he is in politics.
john.mcn
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 19th Apr 2012, 11:35pm) *
Is he far wrong when he says Salmond,"taps into nationalism?" I dont think so and I dont think Salmond is wrong either.As far as I can see he is one politician who leads a party with Scotland at heart.
I certainly dont agree with his notion of a common enemy.Alex Salmond to the best of my knowledge has never displayed enmity towards England.
He ultimately wants an Independant Scotland ..thats the reason he is in politics.

Of course he isn't but why compare him to Hitler , why not Ghandi?
Simples he craves the controversy the slur would guarantee.
Quite funny that the debate was about English history being taught in schools with him remarking, “English national identity is too important to be left to the loons of the BNP and the EDL" but giving his comments about Scotland,Wales and Ireland in the past i would certainly place him in the loon camp.
wee davy
I just love David. He's probably the only openly hostile, deliberately attention seeking, Scottish 'baiter' in the whole of the Queendom. He sells books - lots of them.

At the same time as he is taking advantage of the times, for his own ends he does Scotland a favour (in my view) by converting the fence sitters on Independence, to YES voters lol!

Go David!
Melody
That was exactly my thoughts on the matter when I read this yesterday Davy.
serabash
Let the unionists all show their true colours about how they really feel about Scotland and it's people. It can only help the doubting Scots see we need to be in control of our own destiny.
Scotsman
I wonder if the unionist people ever wonder that the constant bashing of Salmond by people that the Scots dont have much time for might actually backfire on them. If theres going to be another 2 years of this bashing then I think the SNP might actually be able to say that the other parties have done their work for them and convinced most people that they dont want anything more to do with them. Just my thought for the day on this. smile.gif
john.mcn
It's already backfiring, my pro Labour brother in law says he'll switch to the SNP and support independance due to all the crap thats been going on these last few months.
benny
Anyone who votes for an independent Scotland because of the rants of an English historian is as much of a loony as he is. Yes, there are still a lot of English people who think that Britain and England are synonymous, but to base the case for Independence on such attitudes is simply silly. There are many more cogent arguments in favour of Independence - although I'm not convinced by them.
GG
A response today from a local Jewish group, expresing concern over Starkey's remarks regarding Mr Salmond:
QUOTE
"Glasgow Jewish Educational Forum has worked closely with the Scottish Government while Mr Salmond has been First Minister. Offensive comments comparing him to Adolf Hitler are not in the best interests of the Scottish Jewish community.

Mr Salmond has personally demonstrated his own commitment to the Scottish Jewish community and everything he has said in reference to the Jewish community has demonstrated his determination to ensure that it is a respected component in an inclusive and multicultural Scotland."

GG.
JAGZ1876
I hate to give this moron the oxygen of publicity that he craves, but may i suggest that any future offensive ramblings of this so called history expert be given the respect it deserves.

Just laugh and ignore him.
wee davy
QUOTE (benny @ 20th Apr 2012, 09:44pm) *
Anyone who votes for an independent Scotland because of the rants of an English historian is as much of a loony as he is. Yes, there are still a lot of English people who think that Britain and England are synonymous, but to base the case for Independence on such attitudes is simply silly. There are many more cogent arguments in favour of Independence - although I'm not convinced by them.

Argument FOR Unionism - Scotland gets to keep the status quo.
David Camerons, Tony Blairs, the House of Lords,...

Shall I go on?

Might be here quite some time, benny rolleyes.gif

(Oops,... I nearly forgot David Stark raving mad)
benny
There's no guarantee that corruption and stupidity won't flourish in an independent Scotland also, Wee Davy. The only argument that would convince me to vote for Independence is one that would demonstrate effectively that the vast majority of people in Scotland would be better off, in all respects, than under the present arrangement.

Voting for Independence because you're annoyed with the pronouncements of a professonal arsehole isn't a very good choice.
Rabbie
QUOTE (benny @ 21st Apr 2012, 08:25pm) *
Voting for Independence because you're annoyed with the pronouncements of a professonal arsehole isn't a very good choice.

Erseholes have a use, hard pushed to think of any use for Starkey.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (benny @ 21st Apr 2012, 08:25pm) *
Voting for Independence because you're annoyed with the pronouncements of a professonal arsehole isn't a very good choice.

I doubt anyone will be voting for independence because they're annoyed with the pronouncements of this (your word's) professional arsehole benny.

More likely they have come to this decision through researching official treasury figures, seeing in black and white that the money flowing into the Westminster coffers from Scotland is being wasted, and that it could be put to better use in Scotland, 3 Billion per year to defence alone, so that the UK can still pretend to be a world power.

They will also be basing their opinion on how well the Scottish Government is doing with one hand tied behind it's back, just think how well we will do with full control of all our affairs.

I don't know if you live outside Scotland or not benny, but i will assume you don't live here, so you will probably be unaware that while most governments lose public support while in office, the present governments support rises on a weekly basis, as will be seen at the forthcoming local elections, normally a time to protest against the government.

So benny, the ramblings of this sad old man will not mean a jot when the Scottish electorate vote YES in 2014.
benny
Well, unless Glesga has been expelled frae Scotland by the SNP in Edinburgh, ah still live in Scotland, Jagz. biggrin.gif

I think you may well be right as far as the local elections go, but many people may vote SNP in municipal elections who wouldn't do so in national elections. I've done so myself - I've even voted Communist in a local election, and Labour when Steven Purcell was my councillor. Not because I had any time for the Labour party of the day, but because Purcell helped me with a local problem. That's what councillors are for, and if they do their job, I would vote for them no matter which party they belong to. When it comes to national elections though, different considerations have to be made when deciding who to vote for.
tamhickey
I'm afraid that Starkey has lost the plot once again. He's not respected by true historians any longer and is seen for what he is; a media whore who constantly craves attention. History requires a dispassionate level of distance from its subject matter in order that what can be shown to be true has to have some basis in fact. None of this can be gleaned from Starkey's latest ramblings but the sad fact is that this along with the Economist's Skintland depiction of an Independent Scotland shows just how tawdry and how low the arguments will go from the British Establishment.
These sort of preposterous ideas and pompous negativity will do the SNP no harm at all, as Scots see themselves portrayed in such an offensive manner by the so called elite in British society.
I would be very worried if he was to propound his views on University students who may well go on to influence English political parties and their policies. Every single political party in Scotland has poured scorn on his nonsensical drivel on this issue and ought to be applauded for doing so.
This wee diddy has no merit whatsoever.
wee davy
QUOTE
in all respects


Your expectations for independence are not set TOO high then, benny?

Bad called in the 'assumption' stakes there, JAGZ rolleyes.gif
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (tamhickey @ 23rd Apr 2012, 05:44am) *
I'm afraid that Starkey has lost the plot once again. He's not respected by true historians any longer

He has had spats with a few, it's true, like Lucy Worsley, and Geoffrey Elton, and a lot of that is down to the nature of his character than anything professional, but it would be a mistake to under-rate his historical acumen on the basis of his apparent lack of social graces. He was at least responsible for one of my best belly laughs in ages, when he described Gordon Brown as having had a sense of humour and charm bypass. He certainly has a keen eye for the mote in his brother's.
Rab-oldname
Time he removed the 'T' from his name!
Doug1
Your average scot wont be swayed either way by starkey or any other so called expert. As for Alex Salmon i know a lot of folk who like him but i also know a lot who dont. At the end of the day the great unwashed will make up their minds as to who they believe and what they want for their countries future ie independence or part of the UK based on old fashioned scottish pragmatism and common sense and sheer gut feelings
mlconnelly
I would love to live in an independent Scotland but not at any cost. I have yet to be told what my vote for independence will bring me and what it won't and until someone answers that question, allowing me to make an informed decision, I'll stay as I am. Mary
serabash
miconnelly, there will be a white paper published next year that will give you all the answers your looking for. I for one cannot wait for an independent Scotland ,one that we can work to benefit ourselves. where we can build a country to look after our young and old and disabled so they don't live in fear of how they will cope because the goverment is as usual looking after the rich and the sick and the poor are penalised.
Can you tell me one country that has gained it's independence that now regrets it? We I believe can make a better job of looking after our own affairs. If it's the snp you don't like after we have won independence you can vote in 2016 for whatever party takes your fancy. Please don't let that put you off voting yes to independence. As far as I can see the other parties are ruled by westminster so cannot possibly have Scotland's best interest at heart.
wombat
QUOTE (serabash @ 5th Jun 2012, 01:13am) *
miconnelly, there will be a white paper published next year that will give you all the answers your looking for. I for one cannot wait for an independent Scotland ,one that we can work to benefit ourselves. where we can build a country to look after our young and old and disabled so they don't live in fear of how they will cope because the goverment is as usual looking after the rich and the sick and the poor are penalised.
Can you tell me one country that has gained it's independence that now regrets it? We I believe can make a better job of looking after our own affairs.

thumbup.gif spot on serabash, oz is doing alright( also we dont have as many hangers on like UK, duke's, duchesses etc hangin off the jugular veins. of the peepul yes.gif )


If it's the snp you don't like after we have won independence you can vote in 2016 for whatever party takes your fancy. Please don't let that put you off voting yes to independence. As far as I can see the other parties are ruled by westminster so cannot possibly have Scotland's best interest at heart.
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