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Scotsman
Surprised nobody has mentioned this story thats been on the news about how the Tory government has closed down Remploy factories all over Britain including Glasgow. They are sacking thousands of disabled people and then turning round and trying to say it is good for them. Not even Thatcher did this but now we see Cameron shutting the factories where disabled people have the only real chance they will have of ever getting a job.

I have known a few people over the years who have had learning problems and they loved working in Remploy because it was a safe and secure place for them to go and work.

What employer in these times is going to take on a disabled person and spend time and money making sure they or okay when they can get a hundred people queuing outside the door to do the same job for minimum wage and no hassle??

Cameron is stooping lower than Maggie the milk snatcher!!
Jupiter
Scotsman, why are the factories closing?Are they losing money?
wee davy
The jobs were/are being subsidised to the tune of £25,000 per head. They weren't turning over a profit - I believe they will be getting priority in other areas - training etc Unfortunately, it was all old tech stuff.

It is my understanding they will get priority employment, training etc to the same tune of £25k - but that subsidy will go to prifit making enterprises
Sadly - much of what they have been making, there hasn't been much call for, in recent years.

At first glance, it does seem a bit heartless - but its all about giving them a more up to date skillbase.
Jupiter
Basically market forces at work.From your comments weedavy it seems Remploy has come to the end of its viability in the modern marketplace.Far from being a bad move it looks as though the employees will get the benefit of generous govt re training.A positive move from the coalition.
rolleyes.gif
ashfield
Click to view attachment
bilbo.s
Qu´est-ce que c´est que ça? unsure.gif
mlconnelly
Retraining is all very well Jupiter but it doesn't mean they will get work at the end of it. I've had some experience of retraining programmes and no-one would give me a job because I'm on the wrong side of 50 and now that my health is not so good, I've even less chance of being employed. What chance has someone with a disability got.

My friends daughter has special needs and she's been job-hunting since she left school, she's 22, with absolutely no luck. Sadly I suspect as jobs are few and far between at this time, there's a bit of discrimination going on but proving it is another story. Mary sad.gif
Heather
No matter the reason for closing Remploy down, it is still a sad day for those who work there.

Is there any reason they could not have turned the Factory into one making items that are wanted and given work Training on the job??

I remember when working in the Social Security, when ordering beds for Claimants we always ordererd them from Blindcraft in Springburn. This is another place where disabled people work.
I wonder if it will be next on the closing down agenda.
Jupiter
Heather its desperately sad when anyone loses their job,Remploy a goverment owned organisation is having 36 of its 54 factories closed down.It is clearly no longer competative in the market place so business sense dictates.Fortunately the 1700 losing jobs will be offered retraining.Regarding Marys very valid point I would say the sad fact of life is that there is never going to be enough jobs.
GG

GG.
Jupiter
According to the report Remploy lost £68 million last year so I would say any government in charge of such an enterprise would be totally remiss if it did not take steps to rectify this.
GG
Phil Brannan, union convener at Remploy in Springburn, where 46 staff will lose their jobs, all but three of whom have some form of disability, said:
QUOTE
"Most of the workers know they will never ever get another job and will live the rest of their lives on benefits, despite the Government spin.

The problem is employers will not employ people who have disabilities, which is why Remploy exists.

We all welcome the chance of a job in mainstream employment, but right now there is a need for Remploy."

Mr Brannan also said that the network of 54 sites have lacked serious investment to modernise production, with too much money spent on management rather than the production line.

Mr Brannan, a Former soldier, added:
QUOTE
"Unfortunately, Remploy has 4000 workers supervised by more than 500 senior managers.

At the moment, 368 qualify for a company car, while another 280 are paid car allowance. Not enough has been invested in the business."

Ruth Davidson, Scottish Tory leader and a former Westminster candidate for Springburn (Glasgow North East), said:
QUOTE
"The UK Government is putting in more resources and effort to ensure the disabled can have greater access to mainstream employment."

GG.
mlconnelly
Another case of money being paid out to the wrong people. I think its similar to the NHS, too many overpaid penpushers. Time to get rid of theses leeches and focus on the people who really matter, the ones who actually do the work. Mary mad.gif
Heather
So what's new, top Management cream off the money and will no doubt get plenty in Redundancy.

Meanwhile the disabled are left without jobs and will be living on Benefits. The next thing will be that in a few months time they are be told they are fit to work so their Benefit will be reduced.
wee davy
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 14th Mar 2012, 09:30pm) *
According to the report Remploy lost £68 million last year so I would say any government in charge of such an enterprise would be totally remiss if it did not take steps to rectify this.

I'm sorry folks - but for once I find myself totally agreeing with Joop.

What part of UNSUSTAINABLE don't we understand here? 68 million per annum? Other than maybe Manchester United, there isn't another company in the land could cope with such losses

The scheme - laudable though it has been - is from another age.
I cannot imagine ALL current employees being treated with anything less than respect and sensibility, regards remunerations and compensation.

Whilst the future might be uncertain (as it is for the majority of us - apart from the uber rich), it is right to make arrangements for those who are less fortunate, to legitimately CONTRIBUTE to the current and future workplace.

Having said all that - it IS tragic that it has come to A TORY GOVERNMENT (in all but name) to at least TRY and sort it out.

A'hm done smile.gif
I just hope the government are true to their word, regards RE-EMPLOYMENT. It is a promise we should KEEP them to.
john.mcn
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 14th Mar 2012, 10:30pm) *
According to the report Remploy lost £68 million last year so I would say any government in charge of such an enterprise would be totally remiss if it did not take steps to rectify this.

I agree.
campsie
CAMERON IS A D*** HEAD! He has been taking lesson from Tony Blair on how to suck ass with the American President who is also a D*** Head!
zascot
biggrin.gif Good on ye Campsie, say it like it is. laugh.gif
campsie
QUOTE (zascot @ 15th Mar 2012, 06:22am) *
biggrin.gif Good on ye Campsie, say it like it is. laugh.gif

You are most welcome Zascot!
Scotsman
My argument would be that if you can help the bankers out with hundreds of billions then why cant the poor disabled be helped to stay in a job where at least they are paying taxes and buying stuff which provides jobs for others??

Also what I meant in my post was about how the government tried to make out that they were actually helping the disabled people by shutting the factories. If they really are shutting them because of money then why dont they just come out and say that and we can decide on the facts and not the spin?? At least Maggie wouldnae try to hide behind some spin.... she just said it like it was and didnae care who hated her because she knew she was always right!! wacko.gif
Jupiter
Scotsman,one important point is that banks are now back making money and no government could allow the banks to fail or go under. Remploy is losing money hand over fist and is totally unsustainable.The government is giving all employees made redundant re training facilities.
mlconnelly
Thats all very well Jupiter but what about jobs after the retraining. There are precious few jobs for able-bodied people, who's going to employ someone with a disablity. Not only are the employees losing their jobs which is bad enough but for some it will also be the loss of their independence. I understand that the products they are making are no longer making money so why not change what they make and do on the job training as was suggested earlier. Surely it wouldn't cost any more than the government is already willing to pay and keeps people in employment. Mary mad.gif
Jupiter
One word might give you a clue,Mary;CHINA.I think that the British manufacturing industry is all but choked due to cheap foreign imports and in particular from the country better known for its chop suey.Its a sad fact of economic life.I dont know what is produced/processed at Remploy but its obvious the tax payer cannot continue to subsidise it and thats why the government has taken the correct decision to pull the plug.
Heather
I wonder what the total cost of the wages are for the 500 Managers, the 368 Company cars including the car allowance the 268 others get. It must be a massive amount.
Jupiter
Heather it is a massive amount hence the prudent action by the government.

Heather
Why was there the need for so many Managers and why the Company cars and car Allowance. All that expense obviously added to the running costs of the Factories.
mlconnelly
I agree Heather. And I'm also aware of Chinese mass produced imports, Jupiter. So maybe thats what the government should be looking at, instead of shutting down the industry of this country, disabled or otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure that during the 70s the British government encouraged the country to "Buy British", maybe thats what this government should be doing to. Oh, I forgot, we don't have any industries left. Mary mad.gif sad.gif
Heather
Aye Mary, and what's left of our Industries don't get a look in when the Scottish Government buys steel from China for the building of the new Forth Bridge Crossing. mad.gif

So much for them being the Scottish National Party. wacko.gif
john.mcn
Be a bit hard to award the contract for structural steelwork to Scottish companies when no Scottish companies tenderd for it. Where the bidders get their steel from is up to them and including a clause to use Scottish steel may be illegal under EU law.
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Heather @ 15th Mar 2012, 11:03pm) *
Aye Mary, and what's left of our Industries don't get a look in when the Scottish Government buys steel from China for the building of the new Forth Bridge Crossing. mad.gif

So much for them being the Scottish National Party. wacko.gif

Heather, there are no steelworks left in Scotland that can produce the steel required to build the bridge with.

So much for being stronger within the union. wacko.gif
tamhickey
To me, this is a damned disgrace. What's the saying about the Tories? They know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Remploy was initially set up to assist wounded soldiers returning from WW2 and has continued to employ soldiers ever since, as well as other disabled people. There used to be a Remploy factory in Clydebank who produced Army uniforms during the first Gulf war. I know this, as I was working in Partick jobcentre where they gave a presentation about the professionalism of their workers.
As part of my job, I also visited another Remploy factory in Hillingdon, which has also been closed where the workers produced great products, trained their workers to high standards, had great I.T. skills and who were fantastic workers; very few sickies were thrown there by the disabled, many of whom were pleased to be there working and socialising with others.
What now for them? This was never meant to be run as a business, but run as a social need and to provide employment for people on the periphery of the jobs market.
What do they have to look forward to now?
benny
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 15th Mar 2012, 08:37pm) *
. . . ..I dont know what is produced/processed at Remploy but its obvious the tax payer cannot continue to subsidise it and thats why the government has taken the correct decision to pull the plug.

Remploy made a loss of £68 million last year, so the taxpayer cannot continue to subsidise it. Yet the taxpayer can continue to subsidise the privatised rail network to the tune of some 6 billion quid a year.

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature1159/

Extract from the site:

Is it possible for the private sector to pick up most of the tab? It seems not, because UK subsidies have increased by 50% in the last year alone to a record £6.3bn.

While a percentage of this has been allocated to major capital projects, such as the completion of the high-speed rail link between the centres of London and Paris, large sums are required to support unprofitable routes to small population centres where line closures are no longer politically acceptable on environmental grounds alone. Cost-cutting solutions are not easily identifiable.
Jupiter
Its a case of getting the right priorities.No railway network; economy would grind to a halt.
Melody
Ah thought the economy had done that already Jupiter.

Some things in life are not about profit, something that we have been all brainwashed into forgetting about.
Jupiter
Melody the economy is presently ticking along at a very low rate of growth but the government is doing what it can to get things going and by getting rid of an organisation losing £68 million of public money has to be one step in the process. Offering the workers re training is much more than many in the same position recieve.
I happen to think that profit and the creation of wealth is one of the most important factors there is and Im confident the economy will continue to grow.No profit -no re investment-no confidence = stagnation.
It is a harsh decision and probably one that should have been taken years ago by the previous Labour government.

Melody
Growth you say Jupiter? For whom? Not for all the young folk who can't find a job of work which pays a living wage? Not for the poor woman on her mobile phone yesterday that I overheard telling her husband that she and her workmates had all had their employment terminated by text message. Not for the young people working in the service industries which pay minimum wage. What growth are they experiencing?
Not for the several generations of families who find themselves living in the same family home just as in times gone by. But by all means you dream on.

This government is by far the worst bunch gangsters we've ever seen. Maggie had nothing on this lot.

Not for these poor souls:-


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar...mpulsory-unpaid


benny
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 20th Mar 2012, 09:54am) *
Its a case of getting the right priorities.No railway network; economy would grind to a halt.


So why not just renationalise the railways, instead of subsiding private companies to run them? You are right in that it's a matter of priorities though. The priority of the Tory party always was, and always will be, to look after its rich friends and contributors to party funds, and to punish the less fortunate members of society, in spite of the "we're all in it together" claptrap.
Jupiter
Melody I seem to recall in 1999 it was a Labour Govt who introduced the National Minimum wage.
Far from dreaming I can see what the Coalition is trying to do.
At present railways are subsided to the tune of £5.2 billion a year.That is subsidised by the taxpayer and this too is presently under review.
Melody
Jupiter, I was no fan of that New Labour government. As I've said before Tony Blair was the best prime minister that the Tory party ever had. He was simply the forerunner to the heartless creeps we have now. You can wax lyrical for all eternity trying to justify this current particular self serving crowd of hooligans if you like. I prefer to see things as they actually are.
Jupiter
Melody as Ive often said before on the forums Im non political and by that I mean I dont support any party .I dont vote.Im expressing a view,(waxing lyrical in your parlance) on how I see things in the country at present.As far as the self serving crowd of hooligans are concerned I would suggest that 22 months is a very short time for any government to turn things around.
mlconnelly
You should be ashamed to admit that you dont vote Jupiter. I'm not a political person either but too many men and women fought long and hard to get me that vote and I would not insult their memory by not using it even if it meant voting for something like the Monster Raving Looney Party. Mary
Sorry if its a bit off-topic.
Jupiter
Mary,shame isnt something in my psyche.
ashfield
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 20th Mar 2012, 05:11pm) *
Mary,shame isnt something in my psyche.


Then you really are a Tory Jupiter rolleyes.gif
Jupiter
Ashfield I would respectfully ask you to withdraw that remark as you are impugning my integrity.
Ive already said many times I am non political.
Joop.
ashfield
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 20th Mar 2012, 07:39pm) *
Ashfield I would respectfully ask you to withdraw that remark as you are impugning my integrity.
Ive already said many times I am non political.
Joop.


Ok I respectfully withdraw my remark.

I would say instead you have all the right attributes to be a Tory huh.gif
Melody
laugh.gif Indeed Ashfield, no shame.
wombat
laugh.gif
Jupiter
Born and bred in Maryhill working class parents, no profession made a few bob by hard work.Never really interested in politics.Tory?
Give me a break.
rolleyes.gif
In fact I made a wee comment about TORIES yesterday on the" Should kids learn Scottish studies" at 1.06pm
wombat
[quote name='ashfield' date='20th Mar 2012, 07:51pm' post='3571698']
Ok I respectfully withdraw my remark.

I would say instead you have all the right attributes to be a Tory huh.gif


rolleyes.gif to be fair ashfield that other shower of champagne socialists isny much better laugh.gif
ashfield
Perhaps you do a bit of research then before jumping to their defence. Did you know that disabled people are three times more likely that an able bodied person to be unemployed. Did you know that a disabled person will (on average) earn 25% less than an able bodied person?

The decision to close Remploy was based on a report by Disability groups who argued that disabled people should be integrated into the mainstream workforce. Crucially, the recommendation was that an alternative strategy was put in place to achieve this first. As far as I can see, that did not happen. The retraining that is promised will lead to what exactly, look at the unemployment figures and work it out for yourself. At one time employers who had 20 or more employees were required to employ a 3% quota of disabled people and maintain a register of such, that is no longer the case. Employers have cited, lack of productivity, difficulties in training and safety issues for not employing disabled people.

If, as you, say the only argument for making decisions is the economic one then I guess guys like you and me are soon for the chop as we contribute nothing to the economy excepting the drain on pensions and clogging up the NHS (while it still exists of course). If you have a grannie I would hide her now because this lot will be trying to find a way of selling her soon rolleyes.gif
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