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anonymous
Here in Malaysia they have a constitutional monarchy as in the UK, the monarch being head of State, the difference is that the monarchy is not hereditary , the monarch is elected.

In the event of Scotland gaining Independance and deciding to adopt the Malaysian system, who would you vote for in the election and why ?

Who would have the necessary qualities to rule this great nation?
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (red rooster @ 30th Dec 2011, 02:53pm) *
Here in Malaysia they have a constitutional monarchy as in the UK, the monarch being head of State, the difference is that the monarchy is not hereditary , the monarch is elected.

In the event of Scotland gaining Independance and deciding to adopt the Malaysian system, who would you vote for in the election and why ?

Who would have the necessary qualities to rule this great nation?

Howzit Red Rooster.
Is the elected monarch an absolut ruler as in days of old or he he merely a figurehead with others pulling the strings?
anonymous
Basically the same as UK Dave, elected government with prime minister, parliament, Monarch is ceremonial head of state , only elected.

I dont think the Monarch here owns half the coastline and huge chunks of the Country as in Britain.

Here in the state of Sarawak a lot of the land is owned by the people,even the very poor own land where they can grow their own crops, this is thanks to a Brit James Brooke the white rajah, who gave land to anyone who wanted to clear the jungle and grow crops.

The wife's mum has her land and grows rice and fruit, I remember when she first told me that her mum grew rice , I told her "thats funny so does my Uncle Ben"

James Brooke is still held in high regard here, with most towns still having a Brooke Street.
Dave Grieve
Did she ever meet your 'Uncle Ben' biggrin.gif
From what I have read about the 'White Rajah' he was a man way ahead of his time.
wee davy
How's aboot 'electing' Ally McCoist or Neil Lennon - dependin' oan who won the SPL in a particular season? laugh.gif

Sorry guys - I really hid tae dae a double take ai this new thread!

Its certainly no a joab fer me - unless ye get tae lop a few limbs aff, and dae a bit o' tyranny LOL
anonymous
QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 30th Dec 2011, 03:27pm) *
Did she ever meet your 'Uncle Ben' biggrin.gif
From what I have read about the 'White Rajah' he was a man way ahead of his time.


She met him in ASDA Toryglen Dave, right next tae the Homepride Cookin' Sauce. (Uncle Ben that is no' the white rajah )
anonymous
[quote name='wee davy' date='30th Dec 2011, 03:42pm' post='3564599']
How's aboot 'electing' Ally McCoist or Neil Lennon - dependin' oan who won the SPL in a particular season? laugh.gif [quote]
Naw Davie it's fur the Monarch - no the court Jester.



How aboot David Tennant he used tae be a Time Lord !
JAGZ1876
Vive La Republique
bilbo.s
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Dec 2011, 05:10pm) *
Vive La Republique


ˇ Viva la revolución ! ˇ Hasta la victoria siempre ! rolleyes.gif
ashfield
I'll have to have a look on the internet to see if there are any sites that do "how to build your own guillotine" just in case rolleyes.gif
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (red rooster @ 30th Dec 2011, 04:19pm) *
Monarch is ceremonial head of state , only elected.

Sounds exactly like a president.


TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
Monarch is ceremonial head of state ...


QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 30th Dec 2011, 11:21pm) *
Sounds exactly like a president.


Aye, gone are the days when they used to rape and pillage the village like the rest of us. laugh.gif
anonymous
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 30th Dec 2011, 11:21pm) *
Sounds exactly like a president.

Not really alex a president has a lot more political power, I think if you're going to have a monarchy then election is a good way of choosing one, interesting to see that people are conditioned to accept the fact that head of state should be a birthright and the idea of attaining the position on merit is an alien concept.

Also interesting to note that nobody has come up with a serious candidate for the position.

Why is that?

Is it because other than birthright, nobody knows what qualities are required to make a royal family?

Is there nobody respected enough to fill the position?

In these days of press intrusion, where royal family's extra marital affairs, money making scams, sexuality, divorces etc.. have been exposed we have found out that they are no different than anybody else.

What qualities do they have that any other family in the country don't have?
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (red rooster @ 31st Dec 2011, 05:58am) *
Not really alex a president has a lot more political power

It doesn't follow that a president has more political power. The President of the Republic of Ireland is a ceremonial office, in contradistinction to, say, the President of the US.

QUOTE
the idea of attaining the position on merit is an alien concept

A democracy isn't a meritocracy. Think, for example, of the public image of George W Bush as an elected president ; his name has become a byword for the very antithesis of merit.

QUOTE
In these days of press intrusion, where royal family's extra marital affairs, money making scams, sexuality, divorces etc.. have been exposed we have found out that they are no different than anybody else.

There will be examples of that ; Charles was having a relationship with another woman even as he stood taking his vows with Diana Spencer, which is one reason why I do not think he is fit to be a king. But you will look very hard and fruitlessly for any behaviour other than dignity from the present Monarch, or any hint of scandal. You will not have to look far to find a president who stood in front of his wife, children, and entire nation and lied in his teeth about his extra-marital affairs, and tried deceitfully to argue that while being fellated in the White House, she was having sex with him but he wasn't having sex with her. In a tawdry political world, the Queen is scandal-free.

QUOTE
What qualities do they have that any other family in the country don't have?

Perhaps other families could 'do the job', but it is a fortunate reality that the Queen has discharged her duties as Head of State in a manner that is diligent and with a nobility far above that of any president I can think of, and has given a lifetime devoted to service of her country. Whether her successor can match her remains to be seen, but I think there is a strong argument to be made that the esteem in general of the Royal Family is so considerable that its very nature as an institution makes it one that acts to preserve that esteem as its status quo. I think it means it has stability built in.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (red rooster @ 31st Dec 2011, 04:58am) *
... Also interesting to note that nobody has come up with a serious candidate for the position.

Why is that?

Is it because other than birthright, nobody knows what qualities are required to make a royal family?

Is there nobody respected enough to fill the position?

There was a time of course when serious, sword wielding, candidates were aplenty and their respected qualities were well established. Somewhere down the line the "Will of Allah" syndrome must have kicked in; if God hadn't wished it, it wouldn't have been ... so the man was born to be King.
Any complaints should be addressed to priests. tongue.gif
Targer
Check the Clan chiefs I am sure there are a few at the top of the list that could fill the position of being Royal. Dont use an election to select anyone just look at elected positions worldwide to see what that gives you.
Heather
If Scotland does get independence I see no reason to have a Monarchy, they would just be an un-neccessary expense. Other Countries get by without one, so can Scotland.
Tam C
Don't see your job application being posted THH , NOT like you to hold back .Why settle for a knighthood when you can have the whole shebang Cheers Tam C
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Heather @ 31st Dec 2011, 04:23pm) *
If Scotland does get independence I see no reason to have a Monarchy, they would just be an un-neccessary expense. Other Countries get by without one, so can Scotland.


Back of the net.
Well done Heather biggrin.gif
Alex Saville
I'm with you, Heather. Roll on the Independent Republic of Scotland. Hail Caledonia!
Off with their heads!
Alex
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 31st Dec 2011, 08:56pm) *
I'm with you, Heather. Roll on the Independent Republic of Scotland. Hail Caledonia!
Off with their heads!
Alex


Up the republic, yes, but off with their heads ohmy.gif ......You've gone too far Eck.
anonymous
We seem to have strayed off topic the OP was purely hypothetical based on Scotland gaining independance and the highly unlikely occurance of an election being called to determine who would become monarch.

The King and Queen were on telly the other day and the wife happened to mention that the King is elected it started me thinking that if Scotland like Malaysia gained Independance and decided to have an election, who would I vote for, like most people on here I could'nt think of a serious name and thought it would be interesting to see if anybody else could think of one.- obviously not.


QUOTE (red rooster @ 30th Dec 2011, 01:53pm) *
Here in Malaysia they have a constitutional monarchy as in the UK, the monarch being head of State, the difference is that the monarchy is not hereditary , the monarch is elected.

In the event of Scotland gaining Independance and deciding to adopt the Malaysian system, who would you vote for in the election and why ?

Who would have the necessary qualities to rule this great nation?

The question of whether or not an independant scotland should stick with the present royal family or adopt a presedential system is an interesting one and might make a good subject for another thread.

I believe Alex Salmond is already lobbying for the Scottish Crown Estate revenue to be paid direct to the scottish government, given the amount of the Scottish Coastline and other property CE owns I don't see Scotland having any other alternative to the existing Monarchy.

Happy New Year everyone
tamhickey
The alternative is of course to become a republic.
Alex MacPhee
QUOTE (red rooster @ 2nd Jan 2012, 05:19pm) *
I don't see Scotland having any other alternative to the existing Monarchy.

It's hard to see a rationale for an independent Scotland owing any constitutional allegiance to Queen Elizabeth of the United Kingdom, since of logical necessity the Kingdom would become dis-United, although I suppose it's arguable that we had Union of Crowns before Union of Parliaments.
zascot
I know a guy over here who is originally from Edinburgh and he is most definitely a Queen perhaps he could be used. dry.gif biggrin.gif
anonymous
QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 3rd Jan 2012, 11:35pm) *
It's hard to see a rationale for an independent Scotland owing any constitutional allegiance to Queen Elizabeth of the United Kingdom, since of logical necessity the Kingdom would become dis-United, although I suppose it's arguable that we had Union of Crowns before Union of Parliaments.

I don't know the ins and outs of the constitional law or whatever it is they use to decide these things, but as I see it with the crown estates owning so much of the coastline and reportedly all of the sea bed of scotland, I may be wrong,but I would think that should scotland declare itself an independant republic and nationalise the Crown estate property then they would have to compensate Crown Estates and take over the maintenance of the coastline currently owned by CE.

Financially it may be better for the scottish government to retain the queen as Queen of Scotland and try to negotiate a better deal than the 15% she will be getting from Westminster.

But who knows it's all hypothetical at the momment.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out
stratson
I thought if we became Independent Scotland, the Queen would have to pay tax for Balmoral and all the estate she owns in our land.

Would that not be the case?
Heather
Wow Stratson, I never thought of that.
Stratson for First Minister. smile.gif
Isobel
Oh Stratson I am sure they would think of some law to get them out of that one.
stratson
QUOTE (Isobel @ 4th Jan 2012, 08:55pm) *
Oh Stratson I am sure they would think of some law to get them out of that one.




Really don't think they could! They would be visitors to Scotland.----Time will tell, Hope I am around for the referendum. laugh.gif
wee davy
QUOTE (stratson @ 4th Jan 2012, 01:27pm) *
I thought if we became Independent Scotland, the Queen would have to pay tax for Balmoral and all the estate she owns in our land.

Would that not be the case?

Fraid not, Stratson,... not unless you 'do a Robert Mugabe' and just sequest ALL 'foreign' owned real estate, and turn it over to the indigenous peoples hmmm theres an idea - you could always sell it to us expats LOL laugh.gif
You MIGHT just get her to pay full whack Council Tax - but I'm sure they'll find a way around it
angel
If she pays council tax , wether she lives in Scotland or not , will she get a free bus pass ? unsure.gif
Heather
Awe Angel, you have me in fits laughing here just as I'm going to bed. laugh.gif

Do you think she would have the cheek to claim a free Bus Pass for herself and the Duke? ohmy.gif

angel
If she pays council tax , wether she lives in Scotland or not , will she get a free bus pass ? oooops ..whether !
zascot
I can just imagine the queen jumping aff the bus as it wheeks roon the corner at Ballmoral so she disnae hiv tae walk awe the way back fae the bus stop. The wee corgis wid huv tae dreep aff. cool.gif biggrin.gif
enrique
QUOTE (stratson @ 4th Jan 2012, 02:27pm) *
I thought if we became Independent Scotland, the Queen would have to pay tax for Balmoral and all the estate she owns in our land.

Would that not be the case?

Oh stratson, after that suggestion , i would watch yer back if driving through any tunnels in Fance
Heather
Oh Enrique.ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ph34r.gif
Scotsman
I dont know if anyone has said this suggestion but what about the Krankies for the Scottish Monarchy. Maybe not really for the top jobs but I am sure they could be put to some good use after serving the people of Scotland for decades??
mlconnelly
I wonder who would be the heir to the Scottish Crown today if there hadn't been for the Union of the Crowns. Mary rolleyes.gif
GG
I found a couple of possibilities:
QUOTE
The man who would be king

... Perhaps you know of him. He goes by the name of HRH Prince Michael James Alexander Stewart, 7th Count of Albany, and has made frequent media appearances over the years. The publication of his book, The Forgotten Monarchy Of Scotland, created a brief burst of public interest last year.

Once the Scottish parliament has opened, however, he too is heading for centre stage - and no one really knows how he'll fit into an already volatile cast. If an independence movement gathers momentum and needs a figurehead, a king, untainted by the (acquired) Englishness of the Windsors, could come in handy.

According to his book, which reached No 2 in the Scottish bestseller lists, and to the extensive website of The Royal House of Stewart (the family's preferred spelling), Prince Michael's claim to the throne is based on his being the true heir to James II (James VII of Scots), wrongfully deposed from the British throne in the Glorious Revolution of 1688. ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/1999.../features11.g26

Or, if the Scottish Parliament repeals the 1701 Act of Settlement:
QUOTE
The 'Rightful Heir' To The Scottish Throne

A German who became a princess after marrying into the little-known Liechtenstein royal family would lay claim to being Scotland's next rightful hereditary queen if laws banning Catholics on the throne were repealed.

Interior design enthusiast Sophie Elisabeth Marie Gabrielle, 44, will one day rule over the tiny European principality following a fairytale wedding to the country's Prince Alois in 1993.

But her family tree shows she is also part of the direct lineage of the House of Stuart, which was kept off the combined thrones of England and Scotland in the late 17th century then effectively ousted by the 1701 Act of Settlement that outlawed Catholic monarchs. ...

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/286277...Scottish-throne

GG.
JAGZ1876
To end any speculation as to who should be King or Queen of an independent Scotland, many on this site (myself included) favour a republic.
So perhaps a poll could be started asking should we stay a monarchy or become a republic?
zascot
Just watched the movie" The Last King of Scotland" now that would get the world talking. Unfortunately or fortunately for his people he is no longer available but I`m sure I could rustle up a few candidates who are experienced at rip offs thus saving a learning curve.
Heather
That was very interesting GG and not surprising that someone would allege to be the heir to the Scottish Monarchy.

It annoys me that the French spelling 'Stuart' is used instead of the correct spelling ' Stewart ' because of Mary Queen of Scots who was brought up in France.

As I already said, Scotland does not need a Monarchy with all the expense of keeping them and all their hangers on.
fourbytwo
cool.gif I would suggest to all, that should the question of 'Scottish Royalty" be actually put to the question, the the independance issue would die...
The thought that Scotland should endorse the same level of 'privileged hangers-on and leeches' that England suffers, is frightening...The question about Billy Connolly standing as an MP was raised in another topic....
To keep the spirit of Real Scotland, Billy would make a great 'head of state' and would add much needed humour to the dull as dishwater current state of politics, and questions of Royality that seem to be the current trend.
Heather
All Billy Connolly would do would be to embarrass the Country with his filthy language. unsure.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (Heather @ 6th Jan 2012, 06:01pm) *
All Billy Connolly would do would be to embarrass the Country with his filthy language. unsure.gif



And his brown nosing of the royals.
anonymous
QUOTE (fourbytwo @ 6th Jan 2012, 03:58pm) *
cool.gif I would suggest to all, that should the question of 'Scottish Royalty" be actually put to the question, the the independance issue would die...

Probably why the SNP manifesto steers clear of the issue.

They do commit to an independant Scotland joining the EEC which could mean adopting the euro, at least our money would be accepted in england laugh.gif
tamhickey
No such commitment has been made by the SNP, as they have been repeatedly quoted as using the pound post independence. Mind you, the idea of accepting the money down south was funny!
anonymous
I did'nt say that the SNP were committed to joining the euro, I said they were commited to joining the EU which could mean joining the euro

Labour pointed out that if Scotland joined the EU as an accession state they would have to join the euro to which Salmond answered that scotland was already a member of the EU!

This article from the BBC states that the SNP are actually in favour of the euro. http://news.bbc.co.uk/news/vote2001/hi/eng...000/1203444.stm
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (red rooster @ 7th Jan 2012, 03:51am) *
Probably why the SNP manifesto steers clear of the issue.

They do commit to an independant Scotland joining the EEC which could mean adopting the euro, at least our money would be accepted in england laugh.gif


First of all,
why would a question on Scottish royalty kill off the independence issue?.

Secondly,
The UK, of which Scotland is a part of, is already in the EU,
So when is the UK adopting the Euro?.

Answers to one or both of these question would be greatly appreciated, as i must have missed something.

As for England not accepting our money.

Treasury figures show they can't get enough of it.
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