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angel



Tonight on TV , I watched a documentary "20/20 ' dealing with
Polygamous Marriage , I have watched this topic on several occasions over the years , and I always thought , Well ! Maybe this aint the worst situation in the world , a wife for this job
one for another , so on and so forth ! sounds good to me .
This family consists of one financially very secure husband
with three wives and 24 children and all seem to be reasonably happy in their lifestyle .
However this time the programme zero'd in on the children of this marriage , who attended public school , which of course made them , very much aware and vulnerable also to the bigots in
todays society......

definition... Bigot.
n.) A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

So who and what the hell is to blame for a world of one track minds
In my own opinion at this time , of course it is Religion ,
no matter the colour , and each generation suffers , but then it is
alway's the fault of others , God ! "Such small minds "....
makes me sick .

Elma
I am watching this program right now Angel. I can't believe the wives' attitude and can certainly empathize with the 24 children who as you say, feel they will now be vulnerable at school.
We have a polygamus community, Bountiful, about two hours away from here. They are not like these people on 20/20, they are an off-shoot of the Warren Jeffs cult. We see them all the time shopping in Cranbrook, the nearest large town in our area. The women all wear long, high-necked dresses with their hair done up in little covered up buns. They always have lots of children with them. I feel soo sorry for these 'wives' and their children as I know from articles in our paper they are not always happy.

P.S. Interesting wee bit on Tim Allen at the end of the program, eh?
JAGZ1876
Three times the earache, no thanks biggrin.gif
TeeHeeHee
Your reference to the definition of "Bigot" was certainly something I'll bear in mind, Angel. I'll be able to use that the next time I'm lambasted as a "Catholic hater" or " Christian hater" when I next express an opinion with the use of historically recorded data as backing ... and that before the "hate" posts are removed.
Thanks. wink.gif
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (Elma @ 19th Nov 2011, 07:35am) *
I am watching this program right now Angel. I can't believe the wives' attitude and can certainly empathize with the 24 children who as you say, feel they will now be vulnerable at school.
We have a polygamus community, Bountiful, about two hours away from here. They are not like these people on 20/20, they are an off-shoot of the Warren Jeffs cult. We see them all the time shopping in Cranbrook, the nearest large town in our area. The women all wear long, high-necked dresses with their hair done up in little covered up buns. They always have lots of children with them. I feel soo sorry for these 'wives' and their children as I know from articles in our paper they are not always happy.

P.S. Interesting wee bit on Tim Allen at the end of the program, eh?


With 24 handed I think its the other kids at school that should worry about being vunerable laugh.gif
TeeHeeHee
Right, Dave. biggrin.gif
That's the "OK, go an' get yer big brother - see if A'm bothered." situation sorted out. laugh.gif
kenb
wow iwas big brother to five at the the big school ijust managed to" keep the heid"i hate to think big brother to 24, it would have been great for the youngest brother "go get him" infact "bring your army".................
benny
Polygamy - or the lack of it - has far wider implications than religious beliefs. For long periods of our history, the Western world's social system was based on Feudalism. Estates were granted to individuals by a king in return for services rendered. The title to those estates was of paramount importance to the families concerned, and generally descended to the first born son as heir. That's a plain and straightforward rule of succession, and was usually accepted by all concerned. Contrast that with societies like the Ottoman Empire, where umpteen wives and concubines was the rule for the heid bummer, with dozens, and even hundreds, of offspring with one father but different mothers. The result was constant intrigue and power struggles as ambitious family members vied for power. It was common for the Emperor to have his younger siblings put to death on his accession, so that no rivals would stir up trouble.
British kings may have had umpteen mistresses and illegitimate offspring, but none of them were legally recognised as heirs and so couldn't succeed to the throne - a much more stable setup.

Nowadays, when marriage is becoming the exception rather than the rule in the Western world, and people have merr partners than hot dinners at times, we are becoming polygamous in effect, if not in name. Future genealogists are gonnae hiv nightmares tracing their family tree. biggrin.gif
Rabbie
Polygamy = multiple earache + empty wallet syndrome.

Na .. yon polygamy malarky is no fur me, wan dragon is bad enough.

Mind ye, if ye can have the polygamy fun withoot the marraige bit, that might be a different matter.
wee davy
I have witnessed and it is my experience, bigotry in equal measure, comes from those who would align themselves to a religion - AND also as much from those who would rather NOT.

As I will always continue to say - stupidity is not the priviledge of religion.

As for polygamy - I have to agree other learned members - the responsibility to ONE partner is MORE than sufficient for ONE life, thank you very much.

Far too complicated for me, I'm afraid - rosters, HMRC, parents nights, etc etc And I can be a b****r for names LOL laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

Good luck with that, is what I say.
Heather
Well we have Polygamy in Britain believe it or not.

Muslim men in Britain are allowed to have two wives and more as long as they marry the other wives abroad then they can bring them into Britain. If they are on Benefits they can claim for all wives and their children.

A man of any other Religion or none would be charged with bigamy and Benefit Fraud.
angel
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 19th Nov 2011, 07:15am) *
Your reference to the definition of "Bigot" was certainly something I'll bear in mind, Angel. I'll be able to use that the next time I'm lambasted as a "Catholic hater" or " Christian hater" when I next express an opinion with the use of historically recorded data as backing ... and that before the "hate" posts are removed.
Thanks. wink.gif



well Tomi , you seem to have taken my reference to bigotry as a personal affront to yourself.
This of course is not my intention , it's simply to show that bigotry is alive and well ,not only
with religion , but in other ways as the definiton states .
angel


this family are christians and he fully supports his family financially
no claims against the goverment for financial help .
However his children have gone and are going through a lot of misery
from the students in their school because of his lifestyle and now worry about their dad when he has to go to court for because of his polygamous
life .
I personally don't see a problem here , if he can support his family
then that is fine by me .
Muslims countries do allow polygamy but the husband must show that he can support more than one wife , and if in the UK they can bring in a harem to be supported by the british government , then this situation probably has been going on for years by other British governments in the
past. So time to make the Government change .
.
Heather
From what I remember, it was Gordon Brown when Prime Minister who agreed to allow the Muslims to have more than one wife in Britain. wub.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (angel @ 19th Nov 2011, 04:26pm) *
well Tomi , you seem to have taken my reference to bigotry as a personal affront to yourself.
This of course is not my intention , it's simply to show that bigotry is alive and well ,not only
with religion , but in other ways as the definiton states .

No Angel I didn't. It wasn't my intention that you should read it that way either. wink.gif
angel
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 19th Nov 2011, 04:06pm) *
No Angel I didn't. It wasn't my intention that you should read it that way either. wink.gif


that fine Tomi , Suits me .
angel

P.S. Interesting wee bit on Tim Allen at the end of the program, eh?
Sorry Elma , I did'nt see that because my son called just as Tim Allen was speaking , however I did think Tim , looked a bit debauched unsure.gif

anonymous

A couple of points on this

Just wondering if these polygmy communities also practice polyandry - do the women have more than one husband, seems a bit sexist that it should be a guy with multiple wives.

Did'nt see the programme but did they ask the husband what would happen if one of his wives wanted to marry another guy, as they seem very open minded I'm sure the husband would be happy to have another guy in the house.

Of course the children are going to have a hard time at the school, as are kids who have ginger hair, effeminate , dont have the latest trainers etc............ thats kids everywhere, of all colours and creeds ,wrong, but no amount of legislation will ever stop kids bullying anyone they perceive to be different in any way.

Of course bigotry is alive and well, some governments legislate against it and many don't.
wee davy
Which one's DO, red???
anonymous
QUOTE (wee davy @ 20th Nov 2011, 01:12pm) *
Which one's DO, red???

The EU countries are one group, which DO, the UK to the extent that you do not even have to intend to offend a minority, it's a crime if someone perceives you have.

For countries that DON'T, here's an extract from Amnesty international's reoprt on the Middle East and North Africa.

Discrimination

2010 saw little improvement in the status of women and girls who, across the region, continued to face discrimination and violence, including within the family. Men remained superior under family and personal status laws in matters such as marriage, divorce, child custody and inheritance, and women continued to be accorded inferior status under the criminal law. Particularly in more traditional areas, girls were subject to early and forced marriage and women who challenged strict dress codes or were seen by male relatives as not conforming to their particular notions of family “honour” risked violent reprisals and even murder at the hands of their fathers, brothers, husbands or other male relatives. In all too many cases, men who cited “honour” as a mitigating factor escaped any or appropriate punishment for crimes of violence committed against female members of their families.

While virtually all women were at risk of gender-based violence, women migrant domestic workers were particularly exposed. Mostly, these were women from poor and developing countries in Asia and Africa who worked in countries in the Gulf as well as in Jordan and Lebanon. They were generally excluded altogether from local labour laws, where these exist, and were triply vulnerable – as foreigners, as migrants and as women – to exploitation and abuse, including sexual and other violence, at the hands of their employers. Two of the most disturbing cases that came to light in 2010 involved women employed as domestic servants in oil-rich Saudi Arabia: one, a Sri Lankan national, alleged that her employer had driven more than 20 nails into her hands, leg and head after she complained that she had too much work to do; another, an Indonesian national, was cut on the face with scissors, burned with a hot iron and beaten to the point were she required admission to hospital.

Migrants from sub-Saharan Africa who sought to find work in North Africa or to transit them and gain entry to European states were liable to summary arrest and detention or deportation. Those at risk included refugees and asylum-seekers. In Egypt, border guards continued their policy of shooting migrants attempting to cross the country’s border into Israel, killing at least 30. In Libya, thousands of suspected irregular migrants, including refugees and asylum-seekers, were held in severely overcrowded and unhygienic detention centres and faced habitual abuse, sometimes amounting to torture.

Members of ethnic and religious minorities also faced discrimination, as in Iran, or were targeted for attack by armed groups, as in Iraq. In Egypt, Coptic Christians were attacked. In Lebanon, Palestinian refugees continued to be barred from various professions and prevented from accessing other basic rights. In Syria, Kurds faced continuing discrimination and restrictions on use of their language and cultural expression. Life in the region was hard, especially hard, for migrants, refugees and members of minority groups.
wee davy
Interesting piece on Discrimination, red.

Don't worry about bigotry - its certainly got very little to do with polygamy.
(or 'andypandy' or whiteva its called lol)
angel



Canada: It is illegal by Section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada. Bigamy is banned by Section 290. However, the law banning polygamy is not enforced by the government. As of January 2009, no person has been prosecuted in over sixty years.[19] A reference case is currently under way in the Supreme Court of British Columbia challenging the constitutionality of this law. [20]


So in Canada, having more than one spouse can get you in trouble, right? Well, not on the face of it. There hasn't been a successful prosecution for polygamy in Canada for more than 60 years. Nor are statistics kept on how many Canadians live in polygamous marriages, a broad category that covers both men and women with multiple spouses.

I understand that here in Canada , the government only allows one wife to come to Canada
with her immigrant husband . I only hope that it does'nt or won't get into the same situation as the UK has done , regarding benefit payments to these Harems being allowed into the country .

TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (angel @ 20th Nov 2011, 05:05pm) *
Canada: It is illegal by Section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada. Bigamy is banned by Section 290. However, the law banning polygamy is not enforced by the government. As of January 2009, no person has been prosecuted in over sixty years.[19] A reference case is currently under way in the Supreme Court of British Columbia challenging the constitutionality of this law. [20]


So in Canada, having more than one spouse can get you in trouble, right? Well, not on the face of it. There hasn't been a successful prosecution for polygamy in Canada for more than 60 years. Nor are statistics kept on how many Canadians live in polygamous marriages, a broad category that covers both men and women with multiple spouses.

I understand that here in Canada , the government only allows one wife to come to Canada
with her immigrant husband . I only hope that it does'nt or won't get into the same situation as the UK has done , regarding benefit payments to these Harems being allowed into the country .

How about bigamy?
anonymous
QUOTE (wee davy @ 20th Nov 2011, 04:39pm) *
Interesting piece on Discrimination, red.

Don't worry about bigotry - its certainly got very little to do with polygamy.
(or 'andypandy' or whiteva its called lol)


Of course it has'nt - well unless it's a bigoted polygamist, there's plenty of those in the area covered by the amnesty report!
Isobel
I have been watching a series called Sister Wives. Perhaps some of the others here is Canada have also been watching.The family consists of one husband and four wives, and a number of children who all seem pretty nice kids.They have recently moved to Las Vegas, kids attending public school. They have four pretty nice houses all very close to each other and I think they tend to do lots together. However I see jealousy among the wives at different times .Also most of the older children are not sure that this is the type of life they want when they are ready for marriage.
Most young men, even in fantastic jobs are struggling to keep one house one wife and family, so I cant see it catching on.
On a personal note, I don't believe in this type of life style, but to each there own.
Elma
We in our area have been pushing our M.P. to enforce the legislation re polygamy for years now but he did nothing. Bountiful the polygamous town (Church of the Latter Day Saints) is in our riding, Kootenay Columbia. We have a new M.P. now since the last Federal election but he is also Conservative so it looks as though nothing is being done.
Dave Grieve
Just like 'wealthy' people in western countries collect cars, our local 'wealthy' people collect wifes and dispose of them just like they would a car they no longer want.

And the answer is that no woman are allowed more than one husband in Africa because they are inferior to men and are seen as property to be used any way the MAN wants.
Our own President Zuma has 5.6 or 7 wifes (cant remember i've lost track) and has also been charged with rape in the past.


Story in todays local newspaper.

Swazi king kicks out wife No 12 after 'affair'

The 12th wife of Swaziland's autocratic king, who allegedly had an affair with his justice minister, has been thrown out of the royal palace without her children.
Inkhosikati LaDube, 23, who married King Mswati III at the age of 16, says she has been kept under virtual house arrest in her official residence since she and Ndumiso Mamba were caught in a hotel in Mbabane, the capital, last year.
The King, who is 43 and has 23 children by 13 wives, is on his annual period of seclusion. He has not seen LaDube for a year and, she alleges, knows almost nothing about the couple's children.
angel

Life in the dark ages Dave , it boggles the mind . I suppose LaDube
should consider herself fortunate in the fact that she has'nt yet been stoned to death .

As you probably know polygamy is illegal here in Canada , and if women decide to enter into this sort of situation , then they have no rights
according to the law , should they wish to leave .
also many of them do not belong to any of these so called cults , in fact they are middle to upper class incomes and well educated , so it is all a mystery to me .

Dave Grieve
Not so much life in the dark ages as life in the dark continent.
Every year the King of Swaziland and the King of the Zulus attend the Reed dance this is a ceremony when all the virgins in the two kingdoms come together to present themselves to the kings.

In the case of the Zulu virgins they have to submit themselves to a physical examinations by the elder woman of the tribe before they are allowed to participate in the ceremony.

At the Reed dance the maidens cut reeds from the local river and dance in front of the king who then has the right to take one of them as his next wife.

In years gone by this was considered a great honour but I have noticed over the last ten years or so that the more modern educated maidens are not too happy about being looked upon as cattle being put on display.

The only men that are allowed more than one wife are blacks as this is considered part of their 'culture'
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