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Scotsman
I've just read that the government is going to cut benefits because they think that the rate of inflation is too high and unemployed people should not get such a high rise as their benefits are linked to inflation. They say that it would be a slap in the face for ordinary workers because most workers are not getting any wage rises let alone the 6% inflation rate!!

Do you think the government is right to cut benefits to the unemployed even when the cost of food and power is going up so fast?? Or is this just the Tories setting out to punish those who dont have a job and have to rely on benefits??
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Scotsman @ 4th Nov 2011, 01:01pm) *
Do you think the government is right to cut benefits to the unemployed ?

Depends.
Over here, the latest figures for unemployment in a land of 82 million citizens is 2.7 million.
I asked Mary if this figure is doctored; which I think it must be. Her explanation was the €400 jobs.
Lots of folks who are on benefits here are expected; where they can, to take €400 jobs - like filling supermarket shelves or helping out in care homes or even down the local pub.
Their benefits continue but are reckoned together with the €400 (less tax etc.) so they are not among that 2.7 milli figure classed as unemployed.
There is a maximum amount of hours in the month that one can work on a €400 basis. (the €400 being the maximum amount one is allowed to earn in the month, while drawing benefit )
Maybe the UK should adopt this German system to help cut down on the amount of benefits being paid out in the first place. There are lots of small firms which cannot afford to employ a person full time but welcome some one on a €400 part time basis.
Jupiter
Scotsman,is the government not applying to benefits the same sort of rise everyone else working in the public sector is being awarded? Seems fair to me.
Guest
No it's a damn disgrace not keeping benefits tied to inflation. I'm just trying to work it out. A wee bit here a little bit that side and another 6% on the benefits cheque. Keep that going for the next say about 5/6 years and inflation eating away at my wages.

Got it, on March 12th 2017 ah'm gon tae tell the boss to stick his job up his erchie as ah'll be signing on the dole in a financially prudent career move.

Haud on it's Christmas, ah forgot the cooncil tax rebate, roll on Christmas 2016....Jingle bells jingle bells
Scotsman
I think that sounds like a good idea Teeheehee but I doubt that it would fly here as there are very strict rules here about availability for work and even doing charity work when unemployed can mean that you stop getting benefits. I think giving unemployed people the chance to get out there and do something in society and meet people and maybe earn a wee bit more could be a good thing. People I know from the pub say that they cannot afford to take a job because they would lose all their benefits and end up worse off than sitting in the house all day doing nothing but watching daytime telly!!
Scotsman
I cannot agree Jupiter as I think that in fact it is unfair all round because if prices are going up then if people get less than inflation then they are actually worse off then before. How can that be fair I ask?? Only this week I have been reading about executives getting huge pay rises for not doing much and also add that to those bankers bonuses and I think we have a recipe for disaster as people just get angrier and angrier!!
mlconnelly
As someone who has worked since leaving school at 16 until recently, I feel this is very unfair. I do understand why some people get angry at people who are on benefits as I did when I was working and still do when I hear people talking as if its a god given right that they should get benefits when they have never paid a penny into the pot. These are the ones who spoil it for genuine people, especially those of us who have health problems and would like nothing better than to be able to work but can't. I've just had a letter today from my gas supplier say that my direct debit will be going up from £45 a month to £93 a month. I have no idea where I'm going to find another £48 to pay them. Classic story of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Mary sad.gif mad.gif
wombat
QUOTE
I've just had a letter today from my gas supplier say that my direct debit will be going up from £45 a month to £93 a month. I have no idea where I'm going to find another £48 to pay them.


Classic story of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Mary

dry.gif Greedy shareholders and CEO's want their cut too mary ph34r.gif
TeeHeeHee
106% increase! How do they get away with that?
irrie
Morning all. Was talking to a lady in her 80s yesterday. She got a letter from her elect. supplier her monthly payment is to rise from 40 to 62 pounds. Ihe very next day she got a cheque from same co. for 300pounds she has overpaid. Make sense to anyone?. Cheers
benny
The power companies who supply gas and electricity to us are private concerns, in business to make a profit - as big a profit as possible. Many of these companies are part of mulitnational concerns, and not even Brtish owned - their loyalty is to their shareholders and directors, not to their customers.
Successive governments - both Labour and Tory - have done nothing effective to control the huge increases in the charges made to the customer by the power companies over the last few years, and are unlikely to do so at this point.

My own view is that gas and electricity industries should never have been removed from public ownership.
jeep
Mlconnely, I had a similar experience with mt gas bill.
I phoned them to query it and it was instantly reduced.
Worth while phoning them.

Jeep
Heather
I agree Jeep. Mary should phone and question that increase.

We are with Scottish Gas we also get our Electricity from them.
We got our statements in the other day and out Monthly DD for Gas is going up from £62 to £72 a month.
Our Electricity is in Credit so no increase and no refund as we will be using more electricity in the Winter.
mlconnelly
I most definitely intend to make the call and query the increase. I know its slightly off topic but can someone tell me whats the point of OFGEM when they clearly have no control over the gas and electricty suppliers. I agree benny, power suplly companies should never have been privatised. Mary
james.tc
we should re-nationalise the utilities the reason to privatise was to create competition and create cheaper energy.it has created the opposite and fed the greed of the private investment and shareholder entity.we need social cohesian we need to get back to basics we are letting the free loaders get away with it and freeloader sallmond is not the answer hes a tory in diguise.
wee davy
I wonder just how many of those who grabbed the instant gratification of a few shares STILL HAVE THEM???

Short term gain - a LIFETIME of pain .

ALL the UTILITIES need their backsides kicking - AND they're deliberately hiding behind ECO measures. It was pathetic when the UK Cabinet 'took them to task' a couple of weeks ago.

"Expect prices to go only one way - UP" we (AND THE GOVERNMENT) were told.

(Sorry - dont know what any of this has to do with the Topic LOL)
Heather
Ofgem are just another group of free loaders enjoying big salaries that we all pay for.

It really annoys me that we have VAT added on to Electricity and Gas. The Government could change that if they wanted to.
kenb
well then as a new non working day time tv watcher (not) 75% of my working life self employed paying tax corporation tax national insurance mortgage interest private pension etc etc yes i was making money profit buti was taxed on all sidesunfair yes and just as my health let me down my pension went south with the collapse of the banks and endowment mortgage jumped up and bit me as nest egg went south not just for winter also the house should have been paid for and nest egg for future not now house prices have crashed so i owe i owe its off to work cant go . so they the foreign faceless owners of our utilities power water gas have now combined to get direct debits of £120 and £43 per month were will this money come from ,for now we can just manage wth the wife working. so taxing benefits cutting benefits its the goverments turn AGAIN as i am a house owner i dont get much benefit from the goverment but i am sure they will take it back some how and a good way is to cut it am i pi***d off yes do i let it get me down no ive had a good life so far and still look forward to the rest even if they do try and cut my benefits and my penson when it rolls round wow thats a chest releaser that one tongue.gif tongue.gif
wellfield
There's millions here in the States whose unemployment benefits have run out years ago...and senior citizen pensions haven't been raised in the last two years!...
tamhickey
It occurs to me that the Government, having paid off the banks with billions if not trillions of pounds, now cutting back on hundreds of thousands of jobs in the public service, cutting wages hours and conditions where they can, forcing people to work longer for even less of a pension and now making such an arse of it that inflation is going through the roof that the unemployed, the sick and pensioners need to pay for it. It further occurs that this is an old, old ploy by Government to find a scapegoat in order to take the heat off them. Let's blame everyone on benefits for our inflation. Geezza brek. I'm too ill to work nowadays and my wife is the same, but that doesn't mean we don't do anything, and despite the stereotype, I never ever watch daytime telly. We both have worked on films as both crew and as producers and have also acted as well with a community based film company. OK, this means no money for us, but we're getting out and meeting people, discussing ideas and being creative. Sadly though, funding for this seems to have disappeared for now, and who knows if it will ever come back.
My point is this; don't start blaming one another just because the Government are trying to cover their backs - it's their fault and don't let them forget it!
angel


Scotland ,is'nt the only country going through tough times
there are others who are having to deal with much of the same
cutbacks by their goverments .
angel
QUOTE (angel @ 6th Nov 2011, 12:19pm) *
Scotland ,is'nt the only country going through tough times
there are others who are having to deal with much of the same
cutbacks by their goverments .
-oooooooops , governments .
wee davy
Treasury Chief Secretary Danny Alexander said today, the UK 'could' in theory give the IMF FUND a total of FORTY BILLION POUNDS, without any recourse to asking parliament! I kid you not!

The money the government may save from witholding half of the already agreed inflation rise for people on benefits? - estimated to be around £1 BN

I keep asking this - doesn't charity begin at home???

(Why not make that just THIRTY NINE BILLION we promise to the IMF?)
kenb
QUOTE (angel @ 6th Nov 2011, 02:03pm) *
-oooooooops , governments .
angel i dont live in scotland and i am feeling the "pinch" i think we all know its not just scotland ph34r.gif ph34r.gif
mlconnelly
I've been asking the same thing for years, Wee Davy. Mary sad.gif
angel
QUOTE (kenb @ 6th Nov 2011, 07:57pm) *
angel i dont live in scotland and i am feeling the "pinch" i think we all know its not just scotland ph34r.gif ph34r.gif

Well kenb , that is good to know , because there are countries going through much more than Scotland , although up until this point we in Canada have been more fortunate , simply because of our banking system , however if Greece and the Euro Zone don't get their act together ,the next problem will be Italy and Spain and so we will all go down that stank together, should these problems not be resolved. government and the people cannot have their cake and eat it.
Scotsman
Aye wee davy it is totally bonkers.... to say the least. We are supposed to steal from the poorest people in our society just so that we can give a MASSIVE £40bn to the IMF so that they can then use the money as a carrot/stick to bully other governments into pushing through cuts to public services in their own countries!!

This is madness I tell you.... MADNESS!!
Scotsman
I agree with you tam hickey that the government is just trying to pass the buck and get people to start fighting and arguing with each other and blame each other. Politicians are to blame for the mess we are in today.... plain and simple!! Lets not forget this for a single moment as it is what they are trying to make us do. Wouldnt it be great if we could have a vote of no confidence in ALL politician.... I wonder if anyone would vote actually against that one??
Rabbie
QUOTE (Scotsman @ 7th Nov 2011, 05:49pm) *
I agree with you tam hickey that the government is just trying to pass the buck and get people to start fighting and arguing with each other and blame each other.

A case of divide and rule, now where have I heard this before.

This government stinks worse than a well deid rat floatin in the Auld Molindiner during roasting hoat summer's day. Ahh.. bisto! "Maw look wit ah found fur tea!"

The shower of political inepts bail out the worthless dods o' keech and then hit up on the unemployed, pensioners and other less well aff portions of humanity to make up for latent greed and inbred incompetance.

The encumbent eggitry presently installed in Loonieminster should try hitting up on the troughers that can afford to lose a few staine aff thurr blootered erses and several million aff thurr bank rolls. Now then, if these financial wizeerds do not like this they can awe waddle aff elsewhere. I doobt thier so called skills would be welcome anywhere else ootside a corrupt banana republic, like the Divided Kingdom.

The seeds of revolution? Well, jist look what happened to them upitty greedy nobs and nobessess in France a wee whilie ago, a severe case of freshly sliced loafs. That fooked em, for a while. laugh.gif

It is so comforting to know that we are all in this together. Aye right, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and get thier faces rubbed in the pigs swillers mess. Toon centers are ghost towns haunted by 99p stores, charity shops, pawn brokers, gold buyers and National Tat Shops. Awe this makes Skid Row look like Silverburn. Mr. Camaroon <sp>, like you yer big society sooks and badly at that.

Ach see this place, fit a mess it is. Righty 'O must be time for a no so wee malt or twa the noo, there is always spiritual comfort in a bottle o' ra guid stuff:)

Alternate reality time; wee green men and nuetrinos incoming!
GG
According to one report, it gets even worse for the poor and incapacitated, especially in Glasgow, once UK government policies take full effect towards the end of 2014:

QUOTE
Welfare reforms could force 600,000 off incapacity benefit

... The study found the reforms would have the greatest impact in areas that had been struggling for years to cope with job loss and where the prospects of former claimants finding work were weakest. Merthyr Tydfil, Easington in County Durham, Liverpool and Glasgow were likely to be hit 10 times harder than Kingston upon Thames in London or Wokingham in Berkshire.

Fothergill said: "The estimates show that the coalition government is presiding over a national welfare reform that will impact principally on individuals and communities outside its own political heartlands.

"In terms of the numbers affected and the scale and severity of the impact, the reforms to incapacity benefits that are underway are probably the most far-reaching changes to the benefits system for at least a generation. They will impoverish vast numbers of households and cause untold distress in countless more. The incapacity benefit numbers need to be brought down, but this is not the way."

Full story here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/no...apacity-benefit

GG.
GG
The Telegraph is happy to report that the number of people set to lose incapacity benefits under Coalition reforms is ser to rise to 1 million.

QUOTE
... Over the next three years, major changes are being introduced to incapacity benefit, including a tougher medical test for claimants, the re-testing of existing recipients of payments, and a limit on the length of time individuals are entitled to non-means tested benefits.

Disabled groups and charities have claimed the new tests are stigmatising the disabled and mentally-ill as “scroungers” in order to save money from the welfare bill.

Ministers insist that the reforms are not an attempt to stop “scroungers” but will help more people currently deemed unable to work find jobs. ...

Looks like a co-ordinated campaign by the Tory government to spread fear and alarm through the poorest communities in advance of the cuts.

According to today's Herald:
QUOTE
In Scotland, Glasgow will be hit hardest. The report estimates that more than 22,000 people are likely to lose their incapacity benefits and more than 12,000 will be denied benefits entirely.

GG.
tamhickey
No question, there is some overhall needed to the benefits system, but to label everybody as some sort of scroungers is obscene. Yes, there are cases reported in the press where some people have tried to screw the system and they deserve time in jail for it, but for the most part, this does not reflect the reality of the situation. People are forced to through medical tests (paid for by Government) where you are expected to be found fit for work regardless of your disabilities. It's a set up, where you aren't properly examined at all and NONE of the answers you give are believed. At over £100 per consultation, these ex GP's are doing well out of it.
I am in receipt of what's called Employment and Support Allowance which believe me, is not a fortune, and have twice appealed the decisions that these quacks have made about my health. How many others do the same though? I know my body and know that I can't guarantee an employer that I could work for them without becoming ill. It's not fair to either them or me yet the government pretend that they are helping us both. They aren't, they just want to cut the benefits available to the poor, the sick, the needy and the disposessed. How dare they? I was always a worker until ill health got a hold of me and paid into the pot. Now that I need their help, the Government does it's very best to say no.
Well, I for one say no too. No more to this self serving egocentric shower of millionaire cabinet ministers and no more to bailing out the banks. No more to them giving billions away to the IMF and no more to the corrupt and discredited EU.
I want our politicians to get real and it's time there was some re-distribution of wealth rather than the social iniquities we have now.
Rabbie
It is all too obvious that there are able bodied scroungers shafting the system. Quite rightly these feigning lead swingers need to be purged from the incapacity system.

Sadly, this cleansing exercise will save little in comparison to what financial inepts cost this country. It would be much easier to change a few tax loop holes, this alone would help to recover a multplicity of what this exercise will save and could be used to help those that are in genuine need of help and fallen on hard time dues to this governments general incompetance.

The question I think need asked is how so many able bodied folk on incapacity got into the system in the first place. Obviously at some time this has muct have been based on some scab lifters medical opinion.

Therefore, are we to say there are 100,000's of mis-diagnosis to qualifiy for incapacity benefits, if there is such a mis diagnosis on such a large scale, what else has been have these quacks ballsed up?
fourbytwo
I am sorry to say that these 'budget cuts to benefits' will actually result in NO REAL BENEFITS TO ANYONE, and from a plethera of reasons, this is by far the most damning.........
Currently, ( and for about the last 5 years), the increase in agencies set-up to 'Advise and Support' the Nation's unemployed, has increased by 28%.
These 'quango' agencies get funds from the Government, allowing them to schedule sessions where their 'trained instructors' will offer training and support so that the unemployed will stand a better chance of getting a job...!
Like most 'quangos' by the time their officials and administration get their large salaries from the trough....there is of course very little to actually use to help the real unemployed.
The NHS Health Boards, Various Unemployed 'Training' centres, The Jobcentre, and the armies of specialists chasing potential fraud cases...all take a massive slice of the pie.
Now we have a society that openly looks for villains to take the vision away from the multi-level 'grab-it-all' of major companies and all National institutions, who are now free to award themselves vast bonuses on the backs of the poor unemployed and benefit claimants..(and getting poorer).
Hitler did it in Germany by spotlighting the Jews as enemies, and whilst the German people harassed them....was able to 'screw-the-system' inside out.
We see the same formula working in another guise.....
Attack the Benefits, stop the so-called fiddlers, increase taxes on everyday items from food to petrol, but skillfully....... Don't allow the GB people to vote on NOT sending £billions to Europe, keep the fat-cats happy by allowing them obscene bonuses using taxpayers money, make sure Police wages are kept high, lie to the public about the need to 'cut-back', and by doing so, allow the government to 'rake-it-in' from numerous sources...... but remain pleading poverty.
That's why so many people in this country have to back horses and gamble on the Lottery..... TO TRY TO GET TO HELL OUT OF THE COUNTRY.....!
Scotsman
Was invalidity benefit not used by the government to hide the real number of unemployed as those who were on this benefit were not included as unemployed because they were unable to work. So the more people who were on invalidity then incapacity then the better it looked for the government?? I know people who went for it and got it but I also people who were refused it even after jumping through hoops.... although not really jumping through hoops as that would have meant they were able to work!! smile.gif

A simple question comes to me on this.... where are the 1 MILLION jobs going to come from for these former benefit claimants to walk in to??
Jupiter
Benefits are costing the country billions of pounds per year so is it very wrong for the government to take a fresh look at how money can be saved by getting claimants off benefits and back to work?
I fully believe that a person who is entitled to benefits should get everything he or she is entitled to.
I have no doubt there are many people out there,although I have no figures to substantiate this,who are quite happy with their lot living off the state and taking Incapacity benefit indefinately when they are able to work.
I think the Coalition Government should be applauded on their efforts to improve the benefits system. rolleyes.gif
Dylan
"Was invalidity benefit not used by the government to hide the real number of unemployed as those who were on this benefit were not included as unemployed because they were unable to work."

Yes, Mrs. Thatcher in troduced this to masage the unemployment numbers and created a generation of Incapacity Benefit claimants as it paid more than Unemployment Benefit. This was at the same time as she turned vulnerable people out of Hospitals with her " Care in the community. ! These people claimed Benefits and many ended up in Prison.

I fail to see how cutting benefits for genuine people will help unless we can offer them a job.

How can we get them back to work if there is no work?

I agree the cheats must be exposed but the current system appears to be bringing untold misery to already poor and disadvantaged people.

Some of the cheats are experts , perhaps a "Poacher turns Gamekeeper", or " to catch a thief " approach should be adopted !!!!!!

The Coalition must make this a priority and make it fair.
mlconnelly
Your right, Jupiter, there are too many people out there living on Incapacity Benefits who have no intention of ever working if they can avoid it, so yes the system has to change. Although I'm on benefits myself, I have no idea how to go about getting Incapacity Benefit or if its still available but I'm not sure I would want it even if I did. I get Employment Support Allowance because its expected that at some point I will be able to return to some form of employment and hopefully, at some point with some support , that will happen. I hate not working.

Wee update on gas suppier. I called to query the rise in my db and spoke to a very helpful young lady who got everything sorted out in about 10 minutes. So instead of paying an extra £48 a month, I'm only having to pay an extra £10 a month. Apparently the increase was based on a computer generated calculation because my last 2 bills were estimated. Mary biggrin.gif
Mathieson
Who exactly is suggesting the deserving will lose their benefits - other than scaremongers that is?
Does anybody seriously believe there are not thousands and thousands of malingerers currently claiming benfits to which they are not entitled? Really, seriously?
And if Glasgow is due to "suffer" more from the introduction of new measures to limit benefit fraud then maybe that's because Glasgow has more than it's share of benefits cheats.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 8th Nov 2011, 11:56am) *
... I think the Coalition Government should be applauded on their efforts to improve the benefits system. rolleyes.gif


QUOTE
It's the way I tell them. laugh.gif

Jupiter
THH You are too kind.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (mlconnelly @ 8th Nov 2011, 12:30pm) *
... Apparently the increase was based on a computer generated calculation because my last 2 bills were estimated. Mary biggrin.gif

That happened to me once Wi' the Inland Revenue cool.gif
Scared the bejases out of me. rolleyes.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 8th Nov 2011, 01:10pm) *
THH You are too kind.

I do try Joop. biggrin.gif
ashfield
I am very impressed with how many "experts" on disability we have on here. You guys could save the government a fortune with your ability to assess large groups of people without ever seeing them. Or perhaps you just believe everything the Daily Mail prints.
TeeHeeHee
Well, although I can't claim to be an expert on disability benefits ... I know a thing or three about being disabled. tongue.gif biggrin.gif
Mathieson
QUOTE (ashfield @ 8th Nov 2011, 02:28pm) *
I am very impressed with how many "experts" on disability we have on here. You guys could save the government a fortune with your ability to assess large groups of people without ever seeing them. Or perhaps you just believe everything the Daily Mail prints.

... and the Labour Party just loves the likes of you mate. smile.gif
Heather
Yes there are a lot of people on IVB & DLA who should not be.

I have interviewed them in the Social when they were trying to get more money and seen them flouncing out the door when they were refused. They went down the road so quick Roger Bannister would have a hard time keeping up with them.

There are also a lot of genuine people who cannot work because of their health. It's them I feel sorry for as you can be sure some of them will have their Benefit cut or taken off them.
ashfield
QUOTE (Mathieson @ 8th Nov 2011, 03:45pm) *
... and the Labour Party just loves the likes of you mate. smile.gif

Or perhaps the fact that I worked with disabled people for nearly 40 years gives me some informed basis for making comment.
Mathieson
But are you suggesting that there are no people who currently claim disability benefits who are in no way disabled?
odeonclubboy
hey guys does it never occur to anyone that this is just the tory party having a bash at people who never vote for them anyway in a country where they are detested?
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