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TeeHeeHee

[b]MPs to vote on the death penalty: People power will force Parliament to reconsider capital punishment
[/b]


QUOTE
The last time this was debated – during the passage of the Human Rights Act in 1998 – restoration was rejected by 158 votes.

But if lots of people want Parliament to do something which it rejects, then it is up to MPs to explain the reasons to their constituents. What else is Parliament for?

People have strong opinions, and it does not serve democracy well if we ignore them or pretend that their views do not exist.

Capital punishment: Sir George Young, the Commons leader, writes that if there is a groundswell of public opinion, the House should not ignore the petitions

Capital punishment: Sir George Young, the Commons leader, writes that if there is a groundswell of public opinion, the House should not ignore the petitions

MPs face being forced into a landmark vote on restoring the death penalty.

Capital punishment is expected to be the first subject debated by Parliament under an e-petitions scheme.

The initiative allows the public to help set the government agenda and means anyone can set up an internet petition on any subject. If it attracts more than 100,000 signatures, MPs must consider debating it in the Commons.

The scheme is officially launched today, but it has already backfired on the Coalition because Right-wing internet bloggers have been collecting signatures for the last few days.

The restoration of hanging for the murderers of children and policemen is by far the most popular serious issue.



QUOTE
People are beginning to wake up to the fact that this is a new era for the House of Commons. Two years ago, battered by scandal and with public confidence at an historic low, many wrote off Parliament as irrelevant.

Over the last 12 months, it has not only been more responsive to the public, it has been fighting for the public interest, for instance by leading the debate on the phone hacking revelations.

There’s no room for complacency: Parliament needs to keep on connecting with the outside world.

But if politicians want to regain the trust of the public, then they need to trust the public. Giving people more power is the right place to start.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...l#ixzz1U0k6TKua
Jupiter
Ive always taken the view that no one has the right to take a human life,including the state.
In the years I spent in the police and in particular in the Crime Scene office I encountered many people who were ultimately charged with murder.Most of them were pathetic figures who usually knew the victim;husband,wife etc and in many instances alcohol and drugs were involved.
People have asked me how Ive felt towards such people and I can honestly say I felt nothing for them by way of sympathy or disgust for what they done all with the exception of one guy who had murdered a wee girl in Glasgow and dumped her body in a cellar.At the time my girl was about the same age and I did think,"You bad evil ********!Hangings too good for you" But to what purpose?
Now this man in many peoples opinion is a prime candidate for the rope and I can fully understand that but I feel that justice would be better served by locking him up for good and letting him reflect on his crime
It will be interesting to see the outcome of this latest debate on capital punishment.I dont think it will be brought back.
Dave Grieve
I am pretty conservative in my views on life and have always wanted a return of the death penalty.
However I have to agnowledge that in the past there have been a few miscarriages of justice were an innocent person has been hanged.
Although I voted yes to a return for all cases of first degree murder I would also stipulate that in the event of the convicted person declaring their innocence that they be held in a prison built to hold people like this for the rest of their natural life.
If after say ten years there had been no attempt by them to prove their innocence then the original sentence could be carried out.
Let me just add that I am not interested in the argument that the death penalty is no detterent, but more interested in getting scum taken out of society permanently.
TeeHeeHee
I initially voted "Yes; but only for crimes against children" just to get the poll started. I'm surprised to note that up until this moment only 12.5% of those who hit on the topic have made use of the pole; 8 from 69.
I remember last year shortly before Christmas when that young lass was killed and her body just thrown away like so much rubbish at the side of the road in the snow. Her landlord; innocent though he was, took a lot of stick when the media got wind that he was a chief suspect ... and that all because he looked and acted eccentric. This might of course have been a welcome diversion for the police in as much as the true perpetrater might have felt quite safe, who knows, but he was eventually found and charged. At that time; in the case of the suspect landlord, there was a terrible taste of the lynch mob in the air.
I understand Joop's take on this as an officer of the law but my own point of view has always been that if someone deliberately sets out to take a life; other than in defence of his/her own, then that person should know that his or her own life is forfeit when the scales of justice tip against.
Life has always been cheap and easily extinguished but; in fairness, it's hard to understand a justice system which can sometimes ensure that a killer can be released; under a new identity, in much less than 15 years during which time his/her human rights have been upheld.
I doubt very much if this parliamentary debate will bring about a restoration of capital punishment for capital crime but it will be interesting to see how it goes and if " ... by the people, for the people." carries any weight.
Rabbie
Nope, it is legalised homicide / murder and serves little other than to serve as state revenge killing.

It does not deter or prevent the causes of henious crimes and of course always the chance of an innocent person copping their whack.

CP belongs in the dark ages and there it will remain.
benny
I would have no qualms about taking the life of a criminal convicted of murder if it could be proved beyond any doubt that they were guilty. But, there have been so many cases where people have been wrongly convicted,that such a course would, in my opinion, almost always be unsafe. Mistakes can be made even with DNA evidence, which many seem to think is the magic bullet of crime detection., and once you've taken a life there's no way of giving it back again.

What I would like to see is a life sentence which actually meant for the term of the natural life of a criminal, not the 15 years (or less) with time off for good behaviour.

I don't see any possibility of a return to the death sentence, even for the most heinous crimes, no matter how many votes are taken on the matter by Parliament.
Dylan
I am pleasantly surprised at the result of the poll so far.

I usually find myself in the minority.
wiznayme
No and I cannot ever see it being brought back.
mlconnelly
I voted for the death penalty but I doubt if it will ever be brought back. That being the case, I think there has to be some sort of revenue as far as sentencing goes. A life sentence should mean life with no chance of parole. Having taken the life of another person and therefore taken away that persons Human Rights. murderers should have no recourse to Human Rights laws either. Mary
JAGZ1876
I also voted yes, but i know it will never be brought back. Like others have already said on this issue, i would like to see a review of the present sentencing. Most of us will never experience so called serious crimes, Eg, murder, rape, etc, so i would like to see stiffer sentences for crimes that do affect most of us, house breaking, car theft, assault, general neddery & anti social behaviour for example. And if a criminal has to serve 3 years then they serve 3 years, if they misbehave in prison extra time is added to the sentence. It would eventually dawn on even the thickest of criminals that if they don't behave they will never get out. I think this would be worth trying as the present system is clearly not working.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 4th Aug 2011, 12:34pm) *
... if a criminal has to serve 3 years then they serve 3 years, if they misbehave in prison extra time is added to the sentence ...

I must agree with that. I can never understand a reduction in time served on grounds of good behavior when bad behavior brought about the original sentencing .
benny
Even worse, it seems to be the norm in Britain now to have time lopped of any sentence simply for pleading guilty. Perhaps we should just retire aw the judges an issue everybody wi a gun for their personal protection.
bilbo.s
QUOTE (benny @ 4th Aug 2011, 09:50pm) *
Even worse, it seems to be the norm in Britain now to have time lopped of any sentence simply for pleading guilty. Perhaps we should just retire aw the judges an issue everybody wi a gun for their personal protection.


Sounds good to me. I had an airgun at the tender age of 9 and nobody messed with me. rolleyes.gif
angel

I have voted against Capitol pushishment , because I'm just not sure .
......there are times when I think that , that person should be hung ,
then again , I think , no , let him rot for the duration of his life ,
in prison .
Crewsy Fixer
If you voted yes, would you personally carry out the execution, I dont think I could put a noose round a neck or strap someone into an electric chair.

Glasgow Girl
They rarely rot though angel, but yeah crewsy, I couldn't personally hurt a fly.
angel


Glasgow Girl and Crewsy
I could hurt a fly , but could never carry out capitol punishment.
Crewsy Fixer
QUOTE (angel @ 4th Aug 2011, 08:24pm) *
Glasgow Girl and Crewsy
I could hurt a fly , but could never carry out capitol punishment.


Neither could the majoirty of people, who want Capital Punishment, if they had to do it.
Heather
I have always been against Capital Punishisment.

The problem is nowadays that the Prison sentence does not always fit the crime and too many Prisons seem to be like four star Hotels. Then we have the Human Rights Bill that criminals use when they consider themselves to be badly treated.
I also believe a Life sentence is a joke as it is usually eight years with time off for good behaviour.
Criminals who commit serious crime's should have to serve the full time the Judge hands out and have no right to make any claims using the Human Rights especially when they have denied some one else the right to live.

A lot of times the sentence handed out for serious crime's is a joke.
An Asylum Seeker who has a string of convictions was to be deported. He was driving a car while disqualified and knocked down a 12 yrs old girl, he ran off leaving the child dying in the street. When he was caught he got four months Prison Sentence as the Judge said it was an accident.

After leaving Prison he was successful in winning his appeal against getting Deported.
Where is the Justice when four months is all a criminal gets for killing a child.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Crewsy Fixer @ 4th Aug 2011, 08:06pm) *
If you voted yes, would you personally carry out the execution, I dont think I could put a noose round a neck or strap someone into an electric chair.

I could pull the trigger though wink.gif
Rabbie
QUOTE (Crewsy Fixer @ 4th Aug 2011, 08:06pm) *
If you voted yes, would you personally carry out the execution, I dont think I could put a noose round a neck or strap someone into an electric chair.


I have strapped a more than a few eegits into ejection seats.. tongue.gif
Crewsy Fixer
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 4th Aug 2011, 09:55pm) *
I could pull the trigger though wink.gif


Would you give the condemned a last fag.
Heather
I could not carry out an execution.

But I wonder how I would feel if one of my family was murdered and I was to watch the person responsible being executed.
TeeHeeHee
I think if you were unable to carry it out you'd be less able to watch it.
Crewsy Fixer
Remember the Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma Bomber) I read he looked at the relatives of his victims and said Thank You during the execution.
Heather
I think your right Tomi, I would probably pass out with stress and fright.
glasgow lass
I am not in favour of the death penalty, I think it is horrible and barberic. Tho life should mean life without parol., and what about these womwn who correspond wea these killers and becone married to them, there is definitely something wrong wae them as well.
tamhickey
I have never believed that state sanctioned murder is any better than the original crime. It is the law of the lynch mob, and does nothing to deter murder, as has been proven over the years. As has been said, murder is normally carried out by people who know the other person and often drugs are at the bottom of it. That and crimes of passion are the norms, but there are always going to be crimes that turn your stomach, especially when it comes to children being killed. This is an awful crime, and for me, the participants deserve life and know that their lives will end in a prison cell living with the stress of what may happen to them from fellow prisoners on a daily basis.
I often wonder about the politicisation of the parole boards who often let people out prior to their rehabilitation. Is this for financial reasons that the Government seek to do this? Just remember Ken Clarke and his nutty ideas recently.
What worries me is that the Government have now thrown the doors open to all sorts of unrepresentative right wing/left wing co-ordinated groups such as the one demanding the return of capital punishment by using web based petitions, rather than concentrating on the ACTUAL business of parliament, which is to represent their constituents rather than populist propositions. All it takes is for 100,000 signatures to effect Parliament moving to discuss and perhaps alter this country of 56 million people. Is this the future of democracy in our country? If so, then why bother to vote when some groups of people will hold sway over the rest of us rather than our elected representatives?
Perhaps we should all just make a wish list as we did at Christmas as children and maybe get a couple of weeks free fuel from the gas/electricity companies before we freeze in the winter.
Maybe that is worth more exploration than the headlines given over to this populist nuttiness.
Dave Grieve
A few of the people who voted against the death penalty coming back have asked the question to the yes voters if they would be able to carry out the act of executing a murderer.

Personally I would be able to do it and not in a gloating kind of way nor in a 'I am just doing my job mindset'
My thoughts would be on the person that is not there to see justice done, my thoughts would be on the murdered person that is no longer walking the streets nor able to live life to their potential, have children, get married, look forward to life, live their dreams and if lucky have a happy future.
I would also be thinking of the two families that have been destroyed, The murdered persons family and the murderers family.
All because one person decided that they had the power of life or death over another.
There is no comparison between a murderer killing someone, whether it is because of substance abuse,vile temper or simply because they are an evil person and the capture, trial and carrying out of a death sentence of the murderer.
The execution of a convicted murderer is the permanent removal of someone who has decided that they have the power of life or death over anyone in society, whenever they decide this can happen.
It is the removal of someone that has forfited All right to life.
I agree that no one should have the right to take another persons life, court sanctioned or not, but that is Utopia, unfortunately we dont live in Utopia, we live in reality.
one writer said that the death penalty is barbaric, it probably is but so is war, it is even more barbaric, why hasn't war been banned?

As i write this the majority of people that have voted have voted for a return of the death penalty.

I also have to agree that there is little chance of the death penalty coming back, and the main reason is apathy it is easier to go with the flow than make a stand for what needs to be done.
Apathy is the reason the death penalty will probably never return.
ashfield
Sorry Dave, I am against CP, I have always been against CP and I always will be against CP. Nothing to do with being apathetic, quite the reverse. I know there are lots of people who could carry out the sentence, but I find that worrying. Comparisons to war is like comparing apples to pears in my view.

I am not religious, I just don't believe that anyone has the right to take a human life, regardless of the circumstances. Nothing that anyone could say will ever change my stance.
Dave Grieve
QUOTE (ashfield @ 5th Aug 2011, 09:12am) *
Sorry Dave, I am against CP, I have always been against CP and I always will be against CP. Nothing to do with being apathetic, quite the reverse. I know there are lots of people who could carry out the sentence, but I find that worrying. Comparisons to war is like comparing apples to pears in my view.

I am not religious, I just don't believe that anyone has the right to take a human life, regardless of the circumstances. Nothing that anyone could say will ever change my stance.


Hi Ash
When I said apathy I meant apathy from the pro death sentence group. it seems easier to motivate the anti lobby than the pro lobby.
benny
I don't believe that apathy is the reason that the death penalty will never return. The reason is that those who have the power to vote for its return, will not do so, because most of them appear to view it as a retrograde step, not in keeping with a civilised nation.

I don't agree with that viewpoint, nor with the argument that capital punishment should be prohibited because it is "barbaric". Barbaric it may be, but no more so than the act of murdering innocents. As I've already said, the only objection I have to capital punishment is the fact that we can rarely be 100% sure that a suspect is guilty, and you can't give someone their life back once you have taken it away. That lingering doubt is enough to sway me against capital punishment.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (tamhickey @ 5th Aug 2011, 04:08am) *
... All it takes is for 100,000 signatures to effect Parliament moving to discuss and perhaps alter this country of 56 million people ...

If your population figure of 56 million inhabitants is correct, Tam, and if my maths are correct then it would mean that 0.02% (100,000 eSignatures) of the population can have a serious effect on the rest; as you say.
But this 100.000 signatures is the requirement to bring about a parliamentary debate and from there on it would be up to the constituent voters to ensure that their elected representatives really do represent the wishes of the people who put them where they are.
Remember that it was only recently that such collection of signatures, headed by Joanna Lumley, fired off the debate which made it possible for Gurkha soldiers who fought valiantly as part of the British Army to have the right of abode in the UK with their families ... and why not indeed since every Tom, Dick and Achmed with terrorist bent can enter; and remain in, the land on human rights grounds as opposed to those Gurkhas who were prepared to sacrifice their lives for the same land.
The 100,000 signatures would be enough to kick off the debate.
Democracy would then referee how the rest of the game was played out ... I hope. rolleyes.gif
Rabbie
e-polls and a sample base of 100,000 are hardly a true reflection of the view the general UK populace, therefore I put little credence in them.

Out of the 2 people questioned 90% voted maybe. Umm . . have to think aboot that.

It is known that e-polls tend to a favoured haunt of an element of society with extreme views on both sides of any argument. Also, these “polls” are fallible in many senses, one being it is very easy to create multiple profiles, hence once person can multi "votes.” Oh it happens!

As for incumbent eegitiry on some of these websites, take a wee trip thro them and attempt to interpret some of the puerile infantile gibberish, some of it makes me ashamed to be labelled human. That’s the Internet for ye, the eegit filtration system is well jiggered but hell that is half the fun. <evil grin>~ rolleyes.gif

People who purport that they would carry this out bring around a slight sense of unease in me as to my thinking this is not normal or mainstream behaviour in any way of form. The taking human life in this cold blooded, revengeful and state sponsored manner is just as pointless as the crime the for which the CP sentence was awarded. Award, makes it sound like a pressie but does not put the clock back or correct anything.

Our Divided Kingdom is not rootin’ tooting’ cowboy, sorry cowperson, state and what a state, Texas.

Last night when on little green men patrol, a wee cloud came over my scooting over my horizon so I was at a loose end for a few moments, so I took the opportunity to look down from the heavens and gen up on how they like to do things “their own way” in Texas.

I was quite alarmed to learn the manner of the zest and zeal in which this state carries out its not infrequent State Sponsored Toppings. This might even make some ardent CP fans think twice, so much for a “civilised country!” Is the US of A’s Human Rights not a world removed from Chinas?

Over to you Mr Alabama....
drew1952
I'll give you one name of a convicted killer and then tell me there should not be CP..........Ian 'kin Huntley.

Without being a bible puncher 'Vengance Is Mine Sayeth The Lord'
I'm quoting not preaching.

Do you think God would forgive him?

I just think if we did the job for him here on earth he would get there quicker for God to then meter out his punishment, plus we would not be paying to keep the b'stards in prison!
TeeHeeHee
I dare say there are many cases where a husband/wife murders a partner to escape a life of abuse; as if there would be no other escape route rolleyes.gif and it could be accepted that such action would not be repeated on release following a lengthy jail term but for serial killers there should; IMHO, be only one outcome ... a good example would be the recent horrific occassion in Norway.
The deterent factor is not that other people might consider their actions before embarking on such a course; there will always be such individuals, but that that individual would be deterred from ever harming an other creature and justice will be seen to have been done.
Dave Grieve
"cowboy, sorry cowperson"

Sorry Rabbie but the example you give above is an example of what is wrong with society today. You have changed cowboy to cowperson because you dont want to offend somebody and want to be seen to be Politically Correct. You may have done it with tongue in cheek, but the fact is you did it.
For to long minority opinions have been able to influence society far above their numbers to the extent that society finds itself hamstrung because they dont want to offend anybody.

People who take a life dont deserve to live,the example given by Drew1952 is a prime example of why the death penalty should never have been taken away.
Dont be uneasy about people like myself who could do the goverments job for them.
Also there IS a point to goverment executing murders, the point is there is NO chance that they will be allowed out to murder somebody else.
Ogey
I believe that Capital Punishment should be re-instated as a deterrent to the number of random and completely unneccessary murders carried out in this country. Gang-related, and pre-meditated, as well as paedophile, and racist murderers, should all face the ultimate punishment.
I would also add to that list, those who conspire to commit terrorist atrocities, whether they're carried out or not.
Oh, and suicide bombers too!

As well as being a deterrent, just think of the money we'll save not having to feed them for 15-20 years!
angel
Ogey, I'm wondering if you would feel the same way against capitol punishment , if the murderer was your son or daughter , brother , sister
even mother or father .
TeeHeeHee
Angel, OK the question is not addressed at me but I have to wonder about the seriousness of it.
One can't say "I'm for Capitol Punishment ... but not in the case of my nearest and dearest."
If my son (or even one of my daughters) was to murder someone then he'd have to face the consequence of his action.
I can't speak for my predecessors because I don't know who they are. tongue.gif
Rabbie
QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 5th Aug 2011, 01:31pm) *
"cowboy, sorry cowperson"

Sorry Rabbie but the example you give above is an example of what is wrong with society today. You have changed cowboy to cowperson because you dont want to offend somebody and want to be seen to be Politically Correct. You may have done it with tongue in cheek, but the fact is you did it.


Yikes, crivens ma boab!

I have been called many, many really nice things in my short time, but PC?

Sorry shipmate, you are miles off course with your diagnosis, please read my comment as sarcasm and you wont be too far off aff the mark.

Yet, I am deeply offended and traumatised by the use of the PC word and my unsullied name in the same sentence. Whatever will the 2 Tommies think? there goes my OAP streetcred and impending peerage, I am a broken man. ~ "Violins in background."

Accordingly, I must seek an immediate grovelling apology accompanied with a small tribute of 10 000 and a couple of barrels of Guinness and we will call it quits, that's fair dinkum blue.


In order to to clean my tarnished halo.... umm where did I leave it....

As regards PC, I can only say two things about that, well 3 if I plug the hingin' factor into the equation.

1) If it is political it is not correct, PC is what puts the morons in oxymorons.

2) PC + Rabbie = DILLIGAF!

3) PC is a definate hingin' offence.

Opps, did I mention I was opposed to CP, perhaps I could make an exception for that PC shower. Moral here.. it just goes to show, you can only push folks so far and they will revert to the use of the rope.

Jordan does it for me, its enough to want to top yerself.

cool.gif

glasgow lass
drew you asked if God will forgive him, to those who believe in God we know that the answer is a definitely yes. The Bible is full of wonderful examples of Gods forgivness.
Dave Grieve
Sorry Rabie
would CFA30,000 do. I still have some notes from the last time i was in West Africa. + - GBP27
Nae chance o getting you barrels of guiness but if you can make it to my place this sunday theres a couple of bottles of Johnnie Walker Black Label for you along wie a nice steak whichever way you like it. smile.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 5th Aug 2011, 03:46pm) *
drew you asked if God will forgive him, to those who believe in God we know that the answer is a definitely yes. The Bible is full of wonderful examples of Gods forgivness.

He didn't forgive any in Sodom and Gomorra when he nuked them. tongue.gif laugh.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Rabbie @ 5th Aug 2011, 03:44pm) *
Yikes, crivens ma boab!
... Whatever will the 2 Tommies think? there goes my OAP streetcred and impending peerage, I am a broken man. ~ "Violins in background."


...
QUOTE
perhaps I could make an exception for that PC shower.



Ye were nearly away there wee man. biggrin.gif
For PC read Punishment:Capitol; airmen for the use of. tongue.gif laugh.gif
angel

He didn't forgive any in Sodom and Gomorra when he nuked them

Aw we know that Tomi , but they were really , really , Really a naughty
bunch. laugh.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif
angel

I stated in a previous post , that I had voted against C.P. because I was'nt sure that it is a strong enough deterent to deal with the murder of others , this I still believe , but I do think that it is time the justice system was changed to give these murderer's the rest of their lives in prison
with the least possible comforts e.g bread and water , for example. !

,
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (angel @ 5th Aug 2011, 04:39pm) *
Aw we know that Tomi , but they were really , really , Really a naughty
bunch. rolleyes.gif

laugh.gif You can't say He didn't give them a chance or two first.
"Right! That's it! That's yer Lot." laugh.gif
wee davy
Your forgetting THEE - Lot managed to get a few aff, oan Appeal! wink.gif
JAGZ1876
QUOTE (wee davy @ 5th Aug 2011, 05:23pm) *
Your forgetting THEE - Lot managed to get a few aff, oan Appeal! wink.gif


Yes he did, but did God not a salt his wife with a pillar.
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