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wombat
dry.gif fair distribution of wealth ? dont think so , dry.gif 1% own 39% of worlds wealth

U.S has 5.2 million millionaires
japan comes in second with 1530
china in third place has 1110.
Jupiter
Whats your point,Wombat?
Melody
It's a point of information Jupiter. It's always worth being reminded of these figures.
Dexter St. Clair
and the current cabinet has 23 millionaires.
Melody
Says it all really Dexter.
Jupiter
What does it say .Melody?
TeeHeeHee
More like what it doesn't say. rolleyes.gif
It doesn't say "The meek shall inherit the Earth". tongue.gif laugh.gif
Jupiter
Does it mean,"If you are not first,you are last?"
I wonder when was the last time any of our posters walked down the street handing out tenners to citizens they considered to be poor?
Doesnt happen often,if at all.
Ionnsaigh,have you spread out any of that jam you recently won?
Family perhaps?Total strangers perhaps?
TeeHeeHee
Because it wouldn't change a thing.
Jupiter
Ive just read that Glasgow business man,Willie Haughey has donated £250,000 to the Lord Provosts Goodwill Fund.
WELL DONE MR HAUGHEY!
Mathieson
Aye, no doubt there's a high expectancy of some return "good will" from Glasgow council exactly when he needs it. smile.gif
Jupiter
Mathieson, are you suggesting,dare I say it,skullduggery? rolleyes.gif
wee davy
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 2nd Jun 2011, 11:05am) *
More like what it doesn't say.
It doesn't say "The meek shall inherit the Earth".


Click to view attachment


Philanthropy is much more prevalent than you might think it is. Just because you don't hear or see it happen, doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist. For example, if ionnsaigh DID win 100 + million, I truly believe he would NOT be renting a penthouse apartment somewhere exotic - but would be making a REAL difference to poverty, starvation and the lack of clean water in many parts of the world.

We CAN make a difference, THEE - in fact we do it all the time, in our small ways.

Every year there is at least one natural disaster.
Every year, we all put our hands in our pockets - even when we can't really afford it. How many of you out there subscribe monthly to either UNICEF? Cancer Research? or Christian Aid? I wouldn't mind betting its quite a high proportion.

And long may it continue.

No matter HOW small your contribution may be - you DO make a difference.

Even those with gargantuan fortunes, (albeit arguably not enough of them) donate substantially to good causes.

Each £1 Euro or US Dollar freely given , often contributes to a life saved, or relieving pain & suffering

Click to view attachment


KEEP MAKING THAT DIFFERENCE FOLKS

wee davy
http://www.globalpost.com/webblog/ngos/cha...tions-there-app

Exposing ONE of the big bucks people who could be doing MORE.

(Google has apps for giving - whats Apple's excuse we wonder?)
Ahhh yeah - that old biscuit - 'we want to prevent our customers from being scammed'
ionnsaigh
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 2nd Jun 2011, 11:39am) *
Does it mean,"If you are not first,you are last?"
I wonder when was the last time any of our posters walked down the street handing out tenners to citizens they considered to be poor?
Doesnt happen often,if at all.
Ionnsaigh,have you spread out any of that jam you recently won?
Family perhaps?Total strangers perhaps?


Aye, as I mentioned on a previous post, I've held on to my council house, and all my entitlements
( pension etc ) also my Nine year old Fiat Punto, Mr Te he...... wink.gif
Before we left for Barcelona, and after much wrist wringing - we decided to give the house rent free, plus my car and pensions to Wesley Kunsanama, and Hope his wife... they have Three children and are refugee's from Southern Sudan. We gave each of our Eight neighbours the price of a holiday £2000.
( even the wans wae didnae like )
Those people in the square below me in the plaza del Sol.... Madrid, have a new printing press which hopefully be delivered Manana.
I hopefully will pour Millions into the coming revolutionary armed struggle in Scotland.
I have long admired the power of the Kalashnikov. cool.gif
ionnsaigh
QUOTE (Dexter St. Clair @ 2nd Jun 2011, 08:00am) *
and the current cabinet has 23 millionaires.


and 46 half millionaires.
andypisces
QUOTE (Dexter St. Clair @ 2nd Jun 2011, 08:00am)
and the current cabinet has 23 millionaires.

and 46 half millionaires.


Probably only one wit and the rest are not half as lucky
Mathieson
QUOTE (wombat @ 2nd Jun 2011, 01:28am) *
dry.gif fair distribution of wealth ? dont think so , dry.gif 1% own 39% of worlds wealth

U.S has 5.2 million millionaires
japan comes in second with 1530
china in third place has 1110.



So what's the answer? Communism? China's doing not too badly in third place considering it's been working to communist principles these past several decades. laugh.gif
Crewsy Fixer
QUOTE (Dexter St. Clair @ 2nd Jun 2011, 08:00am) *
and the current cabinet has 23 millionaires.


The previous government didnt have any millonaires at all. Would be millionaires, but not yer actual millionaires. Old money is dead.
Dunvegan
QUOTE (wombat @ 2nd Jun 2011, 10:28am) *
dry.gif fair distribution of wealth ? dont think so , dry.gif 1% own 39% of worlds wealth

U.S has 5.2 million millionaires
japan comes in second with 1530
china in third place has 1110.

Actuall 80% would be nearer Wom.
Dunvegan
QUOTE (ionnsaigh @ 3rd Jun 2011, 04:31am) *
Aye, as I mentioned on a previous post, I've held on to my council house, and all my entitlements
( pension etc ) also my Nine year old Fiat Punto, Mr Te he...... wink.gif
Before we left for Barcelona, and after much wrist wringing - we decided to give the house rent free, plus my car and pensions to Wesley Kunsanama, and Hope his wife... they have Three children and are refugee's from Southern Sudan. We gave each of our Eight neighbours the price of a holiday £2000.
( even the wans wae didnae like )
Those people in the square below me in the plaza del Sol.... Madrid, have a new printing press which hopefully be delivered Manana.
I hopefully will pour Millions into the coming revolutionary armed struggle in Scotland.
I have long admired the power of the Kalashnikov. cool.gif

A.K. used to kill more innocents than any other automatic weapon since Ypres.
ionnsaigh
QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 3rd Jun 2011, 12:54am) *
A.K. used to kill more innocents than any other automatic weapon since Ypres.


Why bother making a distinction ? Innocent Guilty, it's not the gun - it's the finger.
charlieboggins
And communist socialist, working class fingers have killed more than any war could manage, pity the directiojn of the gun.
wombat
QUOTE (charlieboggins @ 4th Jun 2011, 02:26am) *
And communist socialist, working class fingers have killed more than any war could manage, pity the directiojn of the gun.

have tae disagree charlieboggins the working class are puppets of the rich/greedy rolleyes.gif

ionnsaigh
QUOTE (charlieboggins @ 4th Jun 2011, 01:26am) *
And communist socialist, working class fingers have killed more than any war could manage, pity the directiojn of the gun.


Pity we missed you wink.gif
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
have tae disagree charlieboggins the working class are puppets of the rich/greedy rolleyes.gif

Aye Wombat ... even the Communists had/have their rich and greedy. rolleyes.gif wink.gif
Dunvegan
Where ever has there been a socialist "regime" that did not create and fill gulags, death camps, war against "fraternal socialist regimes" make prisoners of their own "freedom and peace loving citizens"; Iron curtains, concrete walls, worked to death in isolation and mass starvation. No need to look to history, look to Korea, North that is. The contrast between the two Germanys was stark. the East had one in every ten citizens working for the "Stasi" and could not even produce an automobile. the Soviet Empire could produce weapons of war and mass destruction but could not produce a working electric drill for sale on the open market. It also had the most class divided society since the Tokugawa shogunate in Japan. Party hacks shopped at special stores, had access to western decadent goods, medicine and housing beyond even that of the highest professionals. They were even buried in special party cemeteries!!!!
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
the East had one in every ten citizens working for the "Stasi"

Aye, and the rest. cool.gif
wee davy
Hey THEE - whats with the 'Guido Fawkes' avatar? Bonfire night's no fer anither 5 months yit! laugh.gif tongue.gif
TeeHeeHee
Always pays to be one step ahead Davy. Aye Ready; ye might say, even if Guido was a Catholic. tongue.gif laugh.gif
wee davy
Advise staying oot ai any 'parliamentary type threads' fur a while - never know WHO's 'taking names' lol Mind you, I dare say were AWE marked doon by noo, as subversives of wan description or anither! LOL laugh.gif

Make sure ye read my new judgement day post btw - prob shouldv'e been in here - bit ach weel!
Go To:
Mrs specsavers
benny
QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 5th Jun 2011, 04:54am) *
. . .the Soviet Empire could produce weapons of war and mass destruction but could not produce a working electric drill for sale on the open market. . . .



Ah beg tae differ. Whatever the severe shortcomings of their system may have been, producing shoddy consumer goods wisnae wan o them - at least for the export market. Ah had a Soviet made Rigonda Bolshoi radiogram at wan time, an it wis built like a tank, an lasted for decades. Ah also had a tranny made in the USSR, an it also lasted for many years, an wis made o plastic aboot three times thicker than the equivalent Western model. OK, they might no hiv been pretty tae look at, an they might've been heavy, but they were built tae last. Oh, an ma Da had a clockwork Russian movie camera that we had tae end up throwin oot, when 8mm movie film gave way tae the camcorder. The only problem ah suppose, wis that if ye were a Russian, ye widnae be able tae afford any o these things, an wid hiv tae wait years for them even if ye could afford them .
TeeHeeHee
I still have my Made in the USSR Zenit 35mm camera from the '60s.
I genuinely cracked a couple of skulls with it up in Köln (Cologne) in full swing and it had absolutely no effect on the camera. laugh.gif
Certainly a collectors item and built to last. cool.gif
Dunvegan
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 6th Jun 2011, 09:13am) *
I still have my Made in the USSR Zenit 35mm camera from the '60s.
I genuinely cracked a couple of skulls with it up in Köln (Cologne) in full swing and it had absolutely no effect on the camera. laugh.gif
Certainly a collectors item and built to last. cool.gif

The Pracktica was the only thing I remember coming from Soviet occupied Germany that did what it was supposed to. The camera works left over in the occupied zone, Exacta comes to mind, after the liberation were sitll in operation, even if the technicians were not. The Zeith how ever was in the same class of goods as the "Trabbi" It did what it was supposed to but not much else.
wombat
laugh.gif spose none of yie's heard of the ZETOR tractor then ?
TeeHeeHee
The Zenit E was produced in Moscow and Belarus. Built like a T34 cool.gif biggrin.gif

Click to view attachment
Dunvegan
QUOTE (wombat @ 6th Jun 2011, 10:34am) *
laugh.gif spose none of yie's heard of the ZETOR tractor then ?

Thats the wan that came wi only three wheels and an iron lung tae get it started biggrin.gif
Dunvegan
I have had 3 Rolleis 3 nikons 1 Leica M2 with telephoto, hand singed by the technician who machined it, and a twin lens 6x6 Yashica. The Nikons are still working exactly, one after 40 years, the Rollei 35mm is still after 40 years in excellent working order. Only trouble is they are all analogue and virtually defunct as far as everyday use is concerned. I once bought my wife the last model Practika, a reasonable camera for a soviet satellite, however the shutter release sounded like a Mack truck changing gears on a 45deg. grade. My first SLR was a Practika.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
the shutter release sounded like a Mack truck changing gears on a 45deg. grade.

laugh.gif
The system for the reflex mirror on the Zenit E was like a ropes-and-pulley system. laugh.gif
wee davy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...-perfectly.html

Click to view attachment


Is THIS your Leica, Dunvegan? If so, your my friend lol laugh.gif
ionnsaigh
QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 5th Jun 2011, 03:54am) *
Where ever has there been a socialist "regime" that did not create and fill gulags, death camps, war against "fraternal socialist regimes" make prisoners of their own "freedom and peace loving citizens"; Iron curtains, concrete walls, worked to death in isolation and mass starvation. No need to look to history, look to Korea, North that is. The contrast between the two Germanys was stark. the East had one in every ten citizens working for the "Stasi" and could not even produce an automobile. the Soviet Empire could produce weapons of war and mass destruction but could not produce a working electric drill for sale on the open market. It also had the most class divided society since the Tokugawa shogunate in Japan. Party hacks shopped at special stores, had access to western decadent goods, medicine and housing beyond even that of the highest professionals. They were even buried in special party cemeteries!!!!



I note you use the term regime, in what appears a ridiculous and futile attempt at attacking Socialism.
If you where to use similar language attacking Christianity, I'm fairly sure you would upset some people with deeply held views. I personally find such attacks hurtful, however I'm not a German, nor Russian,
Korean, or Japanese, broadly speaking I'm a Celt of Scottish Irish descent, so I'm far from perfect in understanding the workings and mind sets of anything other than my own.

Did the West have Secret Police ?
Did they have political prisoners ?
Did they have special prisons ?
Did they have mass unemployment ?
Did they have millions of poor ?

Your attack fails to address, the high moral values embedded within Socialism, how dare you suggest otherwise ( true socialists have love and compassion for their fellow man ) they demand fairness in society, and a redistribution of wealth in that society. They demand an end to the cycle of poverty and strife, that inflicts one third of our dear people in Scotland. Socialism embraces true democratic principles, with a change and shift of power, from the few rich elite, to the broad masses.

I refuse to be associated with the monster you paint.

TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (ionnsaigh @ 6th Jun 2011, 01:13pm) *
... the high moral values embedded within Socialism ... They demand an end to the cycle of poverty and strife, that inflicts one third of our dear people in Scotland. Socialism embraces true democratic principles, with a change and shift of power, from the few rich elite, to the broad masses.


QUOTE
I refuse to be associated with the monster you paint.

But you are.
When did the socialists in the UK ever make good on the ideals mentioned by you above?
After all their years in control either as MPs or Councillors when did they ever make significant changes to the poverty and strife that inflicts one third of the inhabitants of Scotland?
Where is this embraced true democracy; this utopian shift of power from the few rich elite to the broad masses?
You cannot consider socialism in your own small corner without considering the effects of socialism in the other parts of the world where its results were inhuman; to use the milder description.
wee davy
Click to view attachment


Whats monsterous about me? lol tongue.gif laugh.gif
zascot
QUOTE (ionnsaigh @ 6th Jun 2011, 02:13pm) *
I note you use the term regime, in what appears a ridiculous and futile attempt at attacking Socialism.
Your attack fails to address, the high moral values embedded within Socialism, how dare you suggest otherwise ( true socialists have love and compassion for their fellow man ) they demand fairness in society, and a redistribution of wealth in that society. They demand an end to the cycle of poverty and strife, that inflicts one third of our dear people in Scotland. Socialism embraces true democratic principles, with a change and shift of power, from the few rich elite, to the broad masses.

I refuse to be associated with the monster you paint.

Socialism has been quite successful here in Africa at attacking itself. What High moral values did socialist leaders have?Love and compassion for their fellow man? I think not.Redistribution of wealth from the rich to the party elite I`d agree with. Please inform me where socialism is successful.
benny
I can't speak for Africa, but Britain is certainly a country where Socialsim has been successful. If you look at the mortality rates and the living conditions in 19th Century, or even 1930's, Britain and compare them to today's, it will become obvious that British Socialists have bettered the lot of their fellow human beings immeasurably. If the only thing that the 1945 Labour government had ever done had been to introduce the National Health Service, millions of people living in this island would still have had reason to thank it on their bended knees. The fact that generations of real Socialists were sold down the river by the money grubbing opportunists of New Labour is no reflection on those idealists who gave their lives to the struggle for equality.
Tommy Kennedy
I agree absolutely with Benny. I well remember the poverty my family suffered in the pre-war non- Socialist years. Not only the belly hunger much of the masses suffered but the rampant childhood diseases; even common to see the bow legged children suffering with rickets thru the lack of decent food and sunlight. The days of ‘Means tests’, the humiliation a poverty stricken family had to go thru to get a hand out from the Parish –such the present government would like to bring back with their benefit cuts!
The only good thing to come out of WW2 was to bring in a Labour Government – the best Labour Government ever; it was similar thru out Western Europe when the masses demanded much more from their Establishments.
Remember how the right wing here opposed all the improvements in Social democracy here; the N.H.S. – increasing the school leaving age to 15 then 16.
In the post war years Britain was far more in debt than now – YET brought about such massive improvements in Social democracy, even embarking on major social housing for the masses.
Most certainly we have had some phony ‘Labour governments’. We never get a phony Tory government, a major advantage they have is that the British Establishment, one of the cleverest in the world, even when a Labour government is in office, is so designed to bribe those that they cannot control.
A disadvantage a Labour government has always had is that they are inexperienced, not clever in the business world.
Ironically that is a now a problem the Tories have. Well they never were really clever in the business, world Pre-WW2 they didn’t have to be as Britain always had a ‘captive market’ for its goods with its Dominions and colonies, further the advantage of Euro countries being at each other’s throats.
Socialism does seem to take 2 steps forward and one back but it IS here to stay and spread thru out Western Europe even where right wing governments are in power. An example is the U.S. where Socialism has always been a dirty word yet has creeping Social democracy.
As ‘peoples’ become better educated, better informed, travel more, they will demand more equality.
Education, information – (Not so very long ago totally controlled by right wing governments) is what right wing Establishments fear.
We see now 'Information' - how the rest of the world is' even having its effect in the Arab world
wee davy
Totally disagree with you and benny, Tommy!

But can't really be a***d to argue my corner LOL

Socialism is a mighty fine aspiration, in its purist form, but the world has yet to witness a successful application of its ideals, I feel. It can be every bit as abusive, every bit as violent, if not MORE so - than a tinpot radical right wing republic.
ionnsaigh
Ever get the feeling of being ignored, it reeks with the whiff of bad manners. ohmy.gif

Socialism can mean many things to many people, some Polish academic calculated over two hundred meanings... So I regard Socialism purely as the means to an equal distribution of wealth. It's abundantly clear that Scotland never had Socialism, however we had State Industry, and Corporation Council's, that provided anything from clean water, to City parks. Council Houses ( I've been a tenant for all life ) has at it's core the socialist recognition of housing Poor People. The British Rail and Post Office, the Public Library, the Steamie... all in true essence Socialist.
If by hook..... or by crook, The Working Class People of Scotland, will have their Workers Republic, ( I think they are more than capable )

Dare to Struggle
Dare to Win.
benny
QUOTE (wee davy @ 6th Jun 2011, 08:18pm) *
Totally disagree with you and benny, Tommy!

But can't really be a***d to argue my corner LOL

Socialism is a mighty fine aspiration, in its purist form, but the world has yet to witness a successful application of its ideals, I feel. It can be every bit as abusive, every bit as violent, if not MORE so - than a tinpot radical right wing republic.



Well, it certainly can't be said of Capitalism that it has never successfully applied its ideals. The result has been - and is - extreme poverty for the masses and luxury for the few.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
I regard Socialism purely as the means to an equal distribution of wealth.

How would this wealth be taken from those who had accrued it and how much would be expected to be reinvested by the people among whom it was equally distributed in order that more wealth was accrued ?
Would those who had never felt the desire to do a days work be included among the ones receiving an equal part in the distribution of wealth and if not, why not?
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