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GG
The French government has passed a law banning the wearing of Islamic headscarves in schools, which came into effect at the start of the new school year today. The French had been debating the issue for two decades, but it intensified in the past couple of years, with dozens of girls expelled from secular schools for refusing to remove their head covering.

Many French people regard the headscarf as a symbol of oppression of women, as well as the embodiment of a political worldview that rejects secularism and even, for some, embraces Islamic extremism.

Do you think the banning of the headscarves (and other overtly religious symbols) is a progressive step in a modern society and would you like the law to spread to other countries?

Related News Articles:

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.htm...143&sid=5187530

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&cl...94043961104B234
Archie Millar
If you live in a country you abide by its laws
Isobel
Fully agree with Archie, You live in a country you abide by thier laws. Hats of to France.
hubert
Quite a number of years ago Sikhs that worked on Glasgow corporation buses got to wear their headgear turban if you like, I believe this happened, I dont see a problem with people wearing headwear that relates to their religion.
Sure are a lot of narrow minded people in this world, live and let live!
whyteinch
Hubert .. time has moved on.
France has taken this action because they perceive a problem coming in their state schools.
France clamped down on them as a symbol of a growing Islamic identity among pupils, also seen in cases of Muslim pupils denying the Holocaust and rising numbers fasting during Ramadan and pressuring less observant Muslim pupils to join them.

Jewish pupils have also reported increasing attacks by Muslims. France has 5 million Muslims and 600,000 Jews.

The ban also covers Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses, to ensure the secular rules are applied evenly, but officials have made clear their main target was the headscarf. The ban does not apply in Catholic and other private schools.

I support the move
carmella
If this is what the French wish to do, since I do not live there, I have no problems with it. I do, however, think that this line of thought will spread throughout Europe. These are very strange times in which we live, and one wonders if there is as much freedom of speech and deed in the 21st Century as we are led to believe – of course, there is far more in the West than there has ever been – but is this progress? There are certain things which I would consider to be an infringement of my own personal and civil liberties – what I wear is one of them. Doubtless, in France, many Muslims will feel the same way!

The individuals concerned will still be able to practice the religion which they have grown up with, be it children or adults. The most important thing in these cases therefore, one would assume, is to be true to whichever religion that is – regardless of clothing.

All that I would add here, however, is that when, on a few occasions, I and many others have visited countries where the predominant religion is Islam, we are advised that it should be borne in mind that we are visiting a muslim country and that we should be mindful and respectful of this at all times and not offend the populous, as we are guests in their country. Further being reminded that we should be careful of what we wear when going out and about.

Whilst I totally agree that people should live their lives as they see fit and obey the various religious doctrines, which include dress in many cases. I think too, that when you go to another country and make that country your home, you should integrate into your new adopted society as best you can, keeping the religious side as a private matter. This is perhaps not so easy with Islam, as part of their day-to-day beliefs is the dress code – particularly the wearing of headscarves for women in some sects.

When in Rome do as the Romans do – so long as you let me get on with my life – I will let you get on with yours. I loathe bureaucracy and red tape in all its forms and detest being dictated too, this is called free will.
Melody
How sad it all is, this short life of ours. Archie says live and let live, and that would be exactly my sentiments. So what, someone chooses to wear a crucifix , someone else a scull cap, someone has pigtails, someone else has a headscarf. All crutches in life to help us through what at times is a difficult and confusing road.
I think it's so sad.
hubert
Hey Melodical a thought it wis me that said live and let live? rolleyes.gif HaHaHa
ca,ppp,doremi
Laugh if you will. But my reaction to this situation is, I have no opinion. I find that certain areas in the world have become just such a crazy mixed up state of affairs mostly because of religious beliefs and differences,and constantly hanging onto past injustices from past wars. I do not envy a country with such multicultural challenges to deal with. Seems that the meaning of the word PEACE....is no more.
Tom
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Melody
Oh Hubert, humble apologies but you know me, must have been havin' a whirly day! laugh.gif Ah;m jist scared somebudy tells me ah canny wear red Pradas!!(Joke) Ah;m Glaswegian a'h canny help it!
AmazingGrace
What a narrow minded world we live in. Richard and I have just spent 4 and a half wonderful years living in Malaysia. A hugely multicutural, multi religious and absolutely everyone lived in harmony together respecting each others religions, dress, colour, race etc. I have no objection to anyone wearing what they like, have the religion they prefer, and the beliefs they have as long as I am not forced into it, I have my own. When we lived in Saudi Arabia I had to always wear the Ahbaya, the long black coat, more for my own peace and so that I would not stand out in a crowd but I was also living in a country which was not my own and therefore I was a guest and respected it accordingly. The UK is getting too "we have to pussyfoot around all the guests" in our country who want and get everything without giving anything back and not be able to ring church bells on a Sunday morning, not be able to have little ornamental pigs in our lounge window and not fly the flag because it might offend someone. AND NOW TODAY'S NEWS taking children hostage, and people are worried about girls/women wearing headscarves sad.gif
Tizzard
I think the ban is a GOOD STEP forward and is LONG OVERDUE.

Muslims in France have for many years becoming increasingly militant in their attitudes to French society. The wearing of the scarf was only the tip of the iceberg and has recently been hijacked by extremists who had been using the garment and the issue to intimidate the authorities and other groups (particularly the Jewish community who are outnumbered in France by Muslims by 10:1 and are increasingly the victims of racial hatred). Muslims activists had been campaigning for the implementation of rules of behaviour in schools along Islamic teaching, such as segregation in swimming pools. Perhaps they will now think twice!!!
steakpie
I think the losers in the headscarf battle will be the muslim girls. They will not be allowed to attend public schools, so will be sent to religious schools, which will only teach them what they want them to learn. At least in public schools, they had an opportunity to see different cultures at work together and not men jumping women's bones because their hair was showing, as their religion seems to tell them.

These now segregated girls will then pass on their narrowed views to their families and the cycle will be continued. Probably exaclty what the extremists want.

Cripes, when I was being brainwashed with all the catholic guff, I believed it with all my heart. Only when I went out into the real world did I begin to question and look for rational explanations, as far as my limited intellect would allow. Take these muslim women out of circulation at an even earlier age and they will never get out from the tyranny of their religious mullahs.

I can't think of any religion which does not profess one thing and condone another. How many of us are turning the other cheek? And now we are doing unto others before they do unto us.

If there is a satan, he is laughing his head off. Maybe he wrote all those holy books. Could've done, the way people use them to justify their evil acts, Christian, Jew and Muslim alike.
Isobel
You got it Amazing grace.
AmazingGrace
Steakpie, Islam is not all bad like all religions, there is good and bad. If you walked along the streets in Kuala Lumpur you could see young girls/women wearing headscarves with spray on jeans and designer label tops and no one bothered them. On Fridays their holy day they would wear the taditional dress(their Sunday best I suppose) with the most wonderfully coloured headscarf to match. In Jeddah the younger generation of girls/women were seen in the shopping malls with their ahbya's blowing in the breeze, whisps of hair showing and underneath they wore desinger clothes in my eyes a bit of a rebellion starting, so good luck to the French Muslims to sticking to their rights, it is not the everyday muslims on the streets it is these religious idiots who have nothing else to worry about, just have a look if you have not already of the big stocky Russian soldier with the dead child in his arms THAT is what we need to worry about with all the terrorist nutcases in our world today sad.gif
August26
I totaly agree, when in Rome do as the Romans do, if you don't like it. leave, over in the Gulf our soldiers are not allowed to wear any kind of religious symbols, so "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" The Muslim radicals are trying to control the French, it is the fastest growing religion in the world, they are murdering Christian's and in the past few years have probably killed more Christian's than Hitler killed Jews during WW2, my neighbors are Muslim, they told me they are a peace loving Religion, so I asked them, why aren't the peace lovers speaking out against the radicals, no answer. I know a lot of you will jump on your soap box and defend them, but I suggest before you do, do a little research find out what is going on in the world, in the Sudan, the rebels are Muslim, how many Christian's have they killed.

August
flim
Hi All GG's France is correct about the wearing of headscarves its their country,Especially when you get Islamic [Muslims] threatening to kill two[2] French journalists,just because they want France to ditch this Law,if they are so concerned about wearing their head-dresses why dont they go back to an Islamic country of their choice..It is well known, even over here in Britain they want it to be an Islamic state,and remember they will never support the country that they live in,to go to war with another Islamic country..Thats my tuppence worth Cheers Flim
Heather
Aye your right Flim. Sure about 2 years ago I was amazed when it was announced that the muslims in England wanted a town handed over to them so they could create a muslim state within England.
A relative who lives in England told me that when the English towns were celebrating the Queens 50 year on the throne and had flags and bunting flying, the people in one town were ordered to take down the Union Jack as it was offensive to the muslim's, apparently it nearly caused a riot because the people refused and quite rightly so. I cannot remember how it ended up.

The latest is that the muslim's want a black stripe put on the Union Jack to represent them. They do not seem to understand that the Union Jack represents the countries within the union not religions.

I and many more like me are sick to death at being told that some of our customs are offensive to the muslim's. Well if they don't like our customs why are they here? we certainly did not invite them and if they are unhappy then the quicker they leave the better for us.

I have no objection to anyone practising their choice of religion but, I don't want their customs rammed down my throat or our customs changed to suit them. If Christians went to a muslim country would they make changes to suit us, I like hell they would. wub.gif
Catherine
I've shortened down the Dress Code that's mandatory in our school to fit this topic..Here goes..

Inappropriate Attire:
Clothing with offensive language or messages that disparage any race, gender, sexual orientation, creed, ethnic or religious group.
Clothing that conceals identity.

There are a few Muslim children in our Primary, they wear their headress along with western style clothing.
I would NEVER look at them or others and think they were offensive. I totally respect that they wear the headress because of their religion.

I think France is wrong to bring this law in, they have walked right into TERRORISTS hands by doing so. They have given TERRORISTS, who camouflage themselves under law abiding Muslims, an excuse to murder...and the vicious cycle goes on and on and on.

How France could be surprised at the outcome of terrorist activities after this law astounds me. This law is no better than the Dictatorship they , along with other Western countries, say they abhorr.
Just my opinion, ah'll skeddaddle noo... biggrin.gif
flim
Hi All GG's..Could someone please tell me why Muslims must have head-dresses on,surely they cant go to bed with them on,lets be honest here, the Muslims who live in this country would never join the British Armed forces if we went to war with an Islamic Country,our Soldiers die along with Coalition forces in Iraq ,while they moan about our unfair System [ nuff said] Cheers Flim
Isobel
I have many friends like you Catherine who are of all different backgrounds. I dont even think about where they are from or what religion they practice. One of the things I found very pleasing about Canada. No more are you Catholic or Protestant.
However this is a bigger issue here. I have heard so many stories about the Muslims in England.I don't think we fully understand it Catherine. They are definately trying to take over in some area's. Sorry I don't like that. Britain is their country of choice , and they should abide by that countries laws.It's not their right to offend the folks who made Britain what it is today. No one is saying don't practice your religion.What they are saying is dont ask us to change our ways to suit your religion. So I still say If you don't like the rules try somewhere else. Just my opinion.
Catherine
Hi Flim
I believe it's a mark of respect, for example the same way Jewish Orthodox religion demands women wear wigs outside the home. Hair has always been known as a show of vanity through the ages. I myself was brought up in the Catholic faith and remember as a wee girl going to Mass that I had to have my head covered...in respect to my religions belief that Our Lady was never seen with her head uncovered.

I cannot debate on the point you make about going to war for another country etc, I don't know anything about that but read with interest here as many contribute points I didn't know existed.
I can only reply to the topic header and cannot fathom why with so many more dangerous issues going on, that the French Government choose to target SCHOOLCHILDREN ....who may or may not be being influenced wrongly outside school by those terrorists.
Here's another view, {cripes nae mare ah kin here ye's sayin biggrin.gif } I know it's small but added to everything else how big it could be..maybe..


Children LEARN how to hate, they're no born with it..it doesn't come naturally, and for those children at an age where they could go either way....then France has blown it by using the one thing that impressionable ages rely on....NOT just for religion reasons either, and that's the right to be comfortable in their own dress sense.
This might sound another 'flimsy' excuse, but I speak from remembering being a teenager, and how rebellious I was when someone told me what I could or could not wear. At the end of the day I complied, but no without angry attitude.

With the zealots out there just waiting for this very opportunity to turn those impressionable minds to their way of thinking, with this new law they're that step closer to getting ahead, in my opinion.

Sorry Isobel, ye slipped in there pet. Yes I hear what you're saying, but wearing a headress surely shouldn't offend another and if it does then those who get offended are easily so.
The other issues as I said, I cannot comment on, I understand that I'm out the loop not living there, but where the headress and other issues become one I totally fail to see.
Heather
The people who run the schools have made it a rule that the scarves or other religious objects should not be worn therefore, the parents are wrong in encouraging their children to ignore this ruling.
I personally do not see anything wrong with wearing the headscarves but what is the reason for wearing them? the muslims seem to be the only one's complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I listened to a discussion on the radio the other night regarding this issue and a muslim who took part in the discussion said the wearing of headscarves had nothing to do with their religion and it was a matter of choice for the woman/girls whether they wore it or not.

Catherine I also remember when we would not dream of going into Church for Mass or any other service with our heads uncovered. I also remember the mantilla which was popular with the girls, I wore one myself. Nowadays the only time you see hats being worn in Church is for weddings or in the winter because it is cold.
Catherine
Hi Heather,
I've heard similar discussions on radio and tv over here, that nowhere in the Korans/Bibles of the world does it actually state that head gear must be worn.
However {ye knew this wis comin} ....I think it's wrong not to take into consideration 'traditions' for want of a better word, within a religions community.
My way of thinking is that there must be a lot more migrant people as the world gets smaller, many Muslims who in this instance may only be second generation to Western countries like France..maybe less, {then again I'm only guessing here before anyone jumps doon ma throat.}, and to many, the headress is part of their identity within their religion , which many of them believe is the most integral part of them as human beings .
My wee gran was horrified when the schools got rid of the Catechism, so were my parents and that was a ruling by their church, cripes ah could jist imagine the uproar if it had been a school ruling!

I have to say honestly that I've never heard France being praised much before for tolerance of any kind other than for themselves. Just a personal observation of mine and I'm not stating fact.


I firmly believe guys that racial hatred could be erradicated from this world if the people in it would just let incidentals {like headscarfs} go, respect differences and be open to learning from one another.
{And ahm no a goody two shoes either afore ye's throw me tae the lions } biggrin.gif
August26
Tommy watched a show last night on PBS about the re-building of Iraq, the Muslims were adamant that in no home in Iraq would prayer other than to Mohammad be allowed, when it was explained to them that other religious would pray in the privacy of their own homes, the Muslims would not accept it, so how on earth do they expect other countries to accept them, talk about trying to control the world, I think it's time for the politician's to take a real stand on this, when in Rome do as the Romans do. and remember shortly we will be going into the Christmas season, remember it's Merry Christmas, not happy holidays biggrin.gif

August
Catherine
Och away an bile yer heid Tommy laugh.gif

Seriously August, I'd be a bit suspect of that tv interview{personal opinion}.elections comin up ect...maybe? maybe no?
Ah jist no how much ah love that edit button, an ahm nae professional [no that ahm a cynic} wink wink...but don't let me go oan.
August26
Catherine:
It was a legitimate show, well according to Tommy, you know how those Marines are, by the way when I called Mags tonight, Mike answered the phone, I told him who I was and asked to speak to Mags, Yankee Mike said he threw her in the Long Island Sound, he was doing his Scott Peterson, is he a bugger or not. dry.gif

August
hubert
Catherine of Canada, you have it right, looking at your posts and summation of this thread and topic I couldnt have said it better, I am proud of you and this is not the first time, its the second! HaHa
Have you been taking further education classes? HeHe
Live and let live is my believe.
A lot of this has me vaguely recalling the story about the Protestant man in Nazi Germany where he tells about the Gestapo coming for the Jews, and he did nothing then the Gypsy`s, again he did nothing, then the Catholics, same again, it went on, then they came for him, and there was no one left to defend or stand up for him.
Anyhoo something like that, someone may recall that story.
I have little tollerance for bigots and racsists, including all of that ilk!
Stand out of the way folks, and let your God handle things!

Thought that VAGUELY looked wrong! HaHa
Changed it, no so smart Melody! HeHe
Melody
Aw Hubert, the voice of reason, hey Catherine for an auld grump he's gie clever!
Well the way I look at it is this. If I need a doctor or a nurse or somebody to help me, I certainly won't ask them if they are A Muslim, A Jew, A Catholic, or if they wear a headscarf or a turban or have long black pigtails.
I'll take their hand and thank my God for their help.
I don't care what flag waves above me, I can only do my best for others in the very short time that I am on this planet.

Then let us pray that come it may,
As come it will for a' that
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
May bear the gree, and a' that.
For a' that, and a' that,
It's comin yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that!
smile.gif
August26
Melody:
Great poem by Robert Burns, but I wonder what he and our founding Fathers would think if they were living in today's world.

August
hubert
Outstanding Melody, not only noo can I not say it better than Catherine, a canny say it better than Rabbie Burns.
And also Melody, who I know doesnt need further education classes, she is a natural! wub.gif
Catherine
Thanks Hubert, the cheques in the mail laugh.gif
{Seriously, thank you xx}

Melody, "I'll take their hand and thank my God for their help" , what a wonderful sentence, take a bow.

August, I think Rabbie would embrace tolerance, try and understand why things today are obviously needin some oil somewhere {oops pardon that pun}...to think his work is the age it is, yet how appropriate it is for every generation.
August26
I think all you Brittish women should go out and purchase Muslin Headscarves, read today's Sunday Herald, Al-Muhajiroun would like to see the Islamic Flag over # 10 Downing Street...............
wake up, it's the fastest growing religion in the world today, controlled by a bunch of terrorists.

Burns wrote the poem in a Christian world, I can imagine what he would write in today's world, I doubt very much it would be" A Man's A Man For A' That"

August
steakpie
If imposing a ban on headscarves is seen as a denial of human rights, what about making women wear them in the first place? Just another man-made rule. Women already have more than adequate head-covering. it is called hair and was designed by some entity a lot smarter than any so-called prophet.

Is islam afraid of hair, or only women's hair? (or any other attribute of women?) Many of the restrictions against women suggest a phobia. Mysogynists?

And just how much right do muslim women really have to decide to wear the headscarf or not? No women who walked uncovered in a restrictive muslim country would go unmolested by these "devout" men.

So, I wonder, do they believe that god made a mistake by creating women with a full head of hair? Are they jealous of it? What if women shaved their god-given hair to the scalp? Would that suffice? If the problem is that it awakes men's lust, then the problem is surely with the men. Shouldn't they be the ones to be blinkered. Maybe a nose ring and chain would help control their lusts,or at least contain it for the appropriate time(chosen by the women,so don't hold your breath, men).

As I said before, this denial or the right to wear a scard,(doesn't that sund really stupid?) will only make muslim women even more isolated. The isolation itself will produce more restricted thinking which will be passed on to their children. What we need is an announcement that women can wear or not wear a scarf regardless of what any man says.

I, too remember having to wear a head covering to go to church. If I had lost it on the way, I would've missed mass rather than enter the church uncovered. And if I had died on the way home, having missed mass on Sunday, my religion taught me that I would've gone straight to hell, as missing mass was a mortal sin, punishable by eternal damnation. The junk we believe when we have it spoon fed into us sticks with us until we get out from under it. If these muslim girls are restricted any more, they will be the breeding ground of the next generation of taliban and al quaeda.

Just a Sunday morning rant against the stupid rules of religion. I'm really going to hell, ain't I? Look at the rule and see the man behind it. I am certain that no benign creator made any of these rules. If he/she/it is benign at all, then just being good to each other is all he wants.

Here endeth the rant.
Catherine
Here you August, yer wummin here's wide awake ah'll let you know....and Rabbie wisnae exactly flavour of the month in the Christian society when he was alive so I still say he'd write that piece with the same thoughts in mind. biggrin.gif

I hear what both yourself and Steakpie are saying here, I'm not ignorant of what is going on altogether, I do have a clue believe it or not.
I still stand by my belief that France is wrong to bring in this law for the reasons I stated earlier.

I know there are terrorists hiding within the Muslim faith, there are terrorists hiding everywhere in many faiths, look at the so called IRA, are you asking me to believe that all Irish Catholics are terrorists, does that make all catholics worldwide terrorists? Presuming you'll answer "of course not ," then why should I be thinking exactly that about those in the Muslim faith?

I agree Steakpie about many of the man made rules made in religion, but what I feel is wrong about this is the CHOICE of those who value this headress to be part of their being has been taken away.

I notice in I think it was Heathers post, that the banning also includes large crucifix's...which leads one to believe that small ones are acceptable.
Where is the fairness in that, because there's no much can be done about the size of yer heid is there?

My wee gran used to say "there's more things brought by prayer than this world dreams of" , sadly someone in the terrorist business must have heard it through the ages an aw, because many have hidden within religions in order to murder instead of love their fellow man.
Tom
I'm sure the poor girls would not choose wear this kind of dress to school,can you imagine beeing the only one in the class dressed like this especialy with all these prblems in the middle east.
Heather
No Catherine, I never mentioned anything about the wearing of a crucifix. Don't worry about it all is forgiven. wink.gif

As far as I can remember the rule applies to the wearing of all religious symbols. This rule does not apply to nor enforced in Private or Catholic Schools.

As I have already said I cannot understand why the wearing of a headscarf should be a problem, especially as it is not a religious symbol. As Catherine said it is more a tradition than anything else.

What a stushie over the wearing of a headscarf. I think there is more to this than what we are being told.
Catherine
Sorry Heather, it was whyteinche's post about large crucifix's, sorry to you too Whyteinch biggrin.gif

Tom, Personally I hear ye cos I can't stand anything on my head....but that's no the point here, the point is there now is no choice whether you wear it through traditional respect to your religion or whether you jist like to wear a wee headress.
If you have worn a headress throughout your life, either through tradition to religion or not.... the choice is now gone regardless of your personal being.

I think you're right Heather, there is way more to this than meets the eye, and at the end of the day whatever it is, whether we ever know it or not, part of it comes down to pure Racism.

Hubert mentioned that wee story earlier, it zoned in and helped me articulate to myself exactly why I've felt unease about this new law from the start.

ANY kind of zealot is a danger I believe, and somehow the fact this law has been passed in France does not surprise me.
Where in the past has France been anything other than vaguely tolerant of it's 600,000 Jewish populace...all of a sudden they're 'worried'?
Well ..how convenient!
August26
Catherine:
I'm happy too hear your wide awake, now here's something I didn't know, we were at the bookstore today with the Grandkids, at the time of the Crusades in the 11th century, the Crusaders went to the Holy Land and killed the Muslims, I didn't get much of a chance to read the book, like I sad the kids were with us, but I'm sure before I can get back there someone on the board will enlighten me, so Catherine my friend lets hear it......................
I'm waiting. time for my history lesson.
Those Islamic radicals have no respect for women, their aim is one world wide Islamic state.
So instead of the red hat society, we will have either the black or white headscarf society. ohmy.gif

August
Catherine
Nae bother Heather, ye no me, ah'll wing it onywherr.

On second thoughts, I'll start a new topic about the Crusades and we could go from there before the Off Topic Polis arrive...{an rightly so Martin, no complainin, no complainin biggrin.gif }
August26
Listen to the chatter above, com'n Catherine we know your the GG police in disguise cool.gif

August
Melody
We all know there are many and sickening reasons for decisions like these, regarding the wearing of religious symbols.
These kind of steps from Governments are making racists and fools of us all. Think how far we have come from the sixties regarding being far better educated and tolerant. We have taken a million steps back since then! The reason greed for oil!
Now we'll be told to be afraid of headscarves? What are we coming to? Proves the power of the media. Divide and conquer. Capitalism used to sugar the pill with how safe we were and housed and clean and able to keep ourselves financially. It shows it's real face these days when the sugar is removed.
carmella
Tom - You’re misguided at best to say that the girls who wear the headscarves feel bad or awkward in their classrooms. France is very used to the ways and customs of diverse communities, particularly the Muslims. Children who are not Muslims in the classrooms to which you refer would think nothing of sitting next to another pupil dressed this way. There is the largest Muslim community in France of all the other European countries over five million in fact.

The French Education authorities have stated that any girl turning up at school still wearing the headscarves will be, very possibly, expelled. I read recently where a schoolgirl living close to the border between France and Belgium felt so strongly about the wearing of this, that she has opted to begin this year’s school term after the summer break at a school in Belgium – doubtless she will be in the minority.

All of the rules recently imposed by the French Government aimed at all religious symbols, Jewish Skull caps, large crosses and the wearing of Muslim headscarves, when one considers that they also recently stated, despite the banning of these items, they wished pupils from different religious backgrounds to become more fully integrated and with a greater understanding of the various religions is, to me, a rather naïve argument, and smacks of double standards. I think it is totally without regard, what pupils wear on their heads or around their necks as to whether they integrate or not. But, the French Government will not be moved on this; therefore the ban is now permanenent.

I have read many articles on this subject and as has been stated previously, it certainly reads to me that it is permissible to wear a tiny cross or crucifix around one’s neck – so size therefore seems to be an issue – does this make sense to any of you, since we are talking about religious differences and cultures? Surely, if this were the case, the wearing of any religious item should be banned!

Well this is France, we’re talking about – the French, as ever, will go their own way in many things. I somehow doubt that their recent ban will affect the rest of Europe or spread throughout Europe – it will be interesting to see what, if any, the backlash to this ban is – after all it is in its early days!

If the French aim to achieve religious integration solely by this action, which I believe was backed by the majority of French people, then I wish them luck – but I hae ma doots, as they say!
August26
Carmella:
thanks for the explanation, I knew you could do it, now you have to go to the other thread and tell us about the crusades

August
flim
Hi All you Catholics who wore scarfs/head-dresses to Chapel ,I cant recall an Elected Government telling you to wear them,the difference is France is being blackmailed by Islams [Muslims] to change their democratic law ,by threatening to kill two French Journalists, Forgive them Father for they know not what they do ...Please dont take it to heart but that is the honest truth..as i see it..Cheers Flim
Catherine
I can't recall an elected Government telling me I COULDN'T wear them Flim.
Where is the democracy when a government tells it's subjects what religious symbols it can and cannot wear...with accordance to size thrown in ie: small crucifix's are acceptable.
Last I heard religion was free choice and nothing to do with Government.

The poor journalists are at the mercy of terrorists here, refusing to allow schoolchildren to wear a headress in accordance with their beliefs be they traditional or mandatory, in my opinion is downright racist by the French government. {jist my opinion mind}

If they haven't already been murdered, and if it happens, will the French government blame it on those who disagreed with the new law?
Will there be people who will turn on schoolchildren and blame them?
If so those people will be no better than the terrorists themselves who are using this {journalists} as an excuse to anger France to begin with.
littlebernie
cathey if you think head dress is not on try this muslims woman wear there dress from head to toe and all you see is there eyes and you be lucky if you see there eyes i watch eight go though customs and for I D all the persons did was flike up the vale so as the customs could see there face new zealand is a very easy going country and i dont agree at all with this kind of dress but they it is there religion do as the romans some hope bernie
Catherine
See when ye think of it Bernie, all they do is look at our passport photo's and then our faces too.
Women who wear this dress, dis it begin with a B? Bhurka something?
Anyway, they go through the same security over their clothes the way others do, so if anything was hidden it would be found the same way.
I believe it's only a woman security officer that does this out of respect to the persons religious rules.

True story here...
The other week there I was waitin in the queue in some dept store, the woman behind me had this dress on and had her baby in the pram, gorgeous wean.
Ma boys were talkin away to the wean as was I, so I caught the mums eye and started talking with her, because I was aware of my own boys glances towards her, they didnae know quite what to make of it...was it scary or no..yet they liked the wean...confusion reigned.
Her and I chatted away and I could see both my boys relax over the whole scene once they realised she wisnae Darth Vader, but wis jist another mum with different clothes on biggrin.gif
Once outside I made sure the boys understood that jist because people look different or dress different, it disnae make THEM different.
littlebernie
glade it was not dark vadia it the security bit it worry me all the concelled clothing as to what could be hiden and no real i d being seen how ever it the border security probelm no dought they will have answer for this bernie
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