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GG
Politicians have been out in force this week to uncompromisingly condemn the actions of players, management and supporters during the Old Firm Scottish Cup match last Wednesday night. The game ended with Celtic beating Rangers 1-0, while three Rangers players received red cards and there was a touchline bust-up involving Neil Lennon (Celtic manager) and Ally McCoist (Rangers coach).

Politicians have variously described the scenes during the match as repugnant, disgraceful, thuggish and abhorrent. Police chiefs have complained about the soaring cost of the fixtures and called for alcohol bans and matches to be played behind closed doors. Campaigners blame on-field confrontations between players for increasing domestic and street violence in the west of Scotland long after an Old Firm game ends.

However, supporters and football enthusiasts have described the controversies as minor incidents felled by passion for the game, describing the claims of politicians, police and vested-interest groups as being a gross overreaction.

As reported in the Scotland and Sunday today, one leading expert on football disorder, Dr Clifford Stott, described the confrontation between the coaching staff as a "minor spat" and claimed the problems generated by the Old Firm clashes were "relatively low". Dr Clifford said:

QUOTE
"You need to keep a sense of proportion about what is going on here. What we are talking about here is a minor spat between a manger and a coach. The issue here isn't that serious.

Yes, of course, the actions of managers and players can be inflammatory, but it is not necessarily going to lead to disorder. I welcome the calls for players and managers to avoid confrontations, but they are part and parcel of the game.

We have to recognise that if games didn't have this edge they wouldn't be the flagship events they need to be. That's why people like them, that's why people engage with them, that's why they are exciting and meaningful."

Glasgow SNP MSP Anne McLaughlin has tabled a motion in Holyrood condemning the violence following the match. Ms McLaughlin said:

QUOTE
"The images of grown men tearing each other apart over a football match is abhorrent to watch. This is not the kind of Glasgow that I want the world to see when they come here for the Commonwealth Games [in 2014]."


Old Firm match highlights, 2nd March 2011

Click to view attachment

GG.
benny
Ah'm no a fitba fan - ah couldnae care less if they closed aw the stadiums in Scotland - but when ah visit friends who are fitba fans, ah'm sometimes forced tae watch if there's a big game oan. Ah saw the game in question, an ah think, aye, it wis a disgrace tae see people who are supposedly sportsmen behavin the wye thae did.
At times ah didnae know whether ah wis watchin a fitba game or the Moscow State Circus wi aw the tumblin aboot frae the Celtic players, an naw, ah'm no a Rangers fan or any other kinda fan. The behaviour o the Rangers players wis, if anythin, worse - especially the baldie wan wi the white strip runnin doon the centre o his heid.
Then the spat - whitever it wis aboot - at the end of the game between the managerial staff topped aff the night's woeful behaviour. If these people were behavin like that in the street ootside, they wid get done fur breach of the peace , an ah don't see why it should be any different in a fitba park.
Jupiter
I do think they are making a mountain out of a molehill.What is there to be expected from an Old Firm cup tie except blood and thunder.Rangers started off on the back foot as underdogs with a weakened squad while Celtic were right up for it after their previous Old Firm win.
The game itself was no different from many previous ties.Whittaker was sent off for two yellow cards,some might say stupid tackles which wouldnt have raised an eyebrow in bye gone years.The other sending off was I believe again two yellows.El-Diouf is a loose cannon ,no two ways about it and easily wound up.Sent off after the final whistle.The track side rumpus could have got out of hand and I just wonder what McCoist whispered to Lennon to send him into orbit.
All in all a stushie now history but something has developed and it is puzzling me and its this.
What were the racist remarks allegedly made by Lennon?Who,in an area which is in the heart of the Celtic main stand,and the reports say it was members of the public,reported Lennon to the police ?Some Celtic fan offended by Lennon?
Time will tell,but Aye a mountain out of a molehill,a storm in a teacup.
weeshuggie
No Jupiter, time has already told, hundreds of rangers bigots encouraged by some idiotic you tube post contacted the police demanding action. I have just discovered that 40% of Rangers supporters have deaf sisters who are absolutely crap at lip reading, must be Scottish education flaw. The whole farce has been created to deflect attention away from the thuggery of Rangers players. Diouf says in the Record that Lennon is no racist, however that won't stop the religiously bigoted, did I say religiously, religious, these morons couldn't find a religious arena wae a satnav that only located rosary beads and presbyterian bibles.
Mountain out a mole hill, yes in Lennon's case and no in Rangers case where their outrageous actions have been covered up by a smear and typical idiotic claim of racism.

Death threats, threats to his family, bullets in the post, all for having your team win a few games. The cry is that Lennon incited all this hatred. Paddy McCourt and Nial Mc Ginn were sent bullets too, their contribution to inciting hatred, they are Catholic and from Northern Ireland. Yes how the media change the facts.
kennyjenkins
How about closing both teams down. This rubbish has gone on far too long. Maybe it's about time Glasgow grew up.
Crewsy Fixer
A basic answer, to the basic question asked in the opening post. Glasgow is a powder keg always ready to be lit.

I remember seeing some sort of documentary about the troubles in NI, during its height, and the question being asked could it spread to Glasgow, the answer was that "combined wisdom ensured this wouldnt happen"

Quite scary, when I thought about that, Im for peace before war.

TeeHeeHee
I worked for a short spell at Belfast Airport around '89 and was asked by a Scot, a Glasgow lad wearing a Union Flag lapel badge, if I was a Catholic or a Protestant. I told him I was neither the one nor the other. He told me that that answer wouldn't do in Belfast.
It's never been any different in Glasgow and the Old Firm teams even if the had 11 foreigners on each side, are a reflection of that. I grew up with a bunch of mates the majority of whom were Celtic supporters (I infamously stood with them behind the Celtic goal mouth at a new year game and almost paid for it with my life when John Grieg put away the only goal on the last minute)
My family had a lot of Men of Orange and my sister was in The Eastern Star.
There was also a Catholic side to the family.
Sport? What sport?
Jupiter
weeshuggie,can you tell us what was supposedly lipread?
Dunvegan
QUOTE (kennyjenkins @ 7th Mar 2011, 09:51am) *
How about closing both teams down. This rubbish has gone on far too long. Maybe it's about time Glasgow grew up.

Too much vested interest in fuelling the flames; another control module that has been used too divide and rule the Scottish working class.
"There is a plot between the Pope and Joseph Stalin to undermine our freedoms and our glorious Union" and a large proportion of Scots and Nothern Irish fell for it and still are.
Scotsman
I can't believe the mileage these.... YES!.... minor incidents have been given. A couple of hard tackles which back in the seventies would have been shrugged off as run-o-the-mill and a couple of players got sent off. Then at the end of the game a brief exchange of words between passionate coaches - good on them - and a hot-head numpty with form taking his top off and throwing it to the crowd. It's the constant media replays and 'expert' opibion that is keeping this mince going.

That said, what was Walter Smith thinking about when he brought Diouf into the Scottish game? Even for a manager desperate for attacking talent it was a move that a veteran like him must have known would backfire eventually. An inauspicious end to his managerial career.
Guest
QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 7th Mar 2011, 01:53am) *
Too much vested interest in fuelling the flames; another control module that has been used too divide and rule the Scottish working class.
"There is a plot between the Pope and Joseph Stalin to undermine our freedoms and our glorious Union" and a large proportion of Scots and Nothern Irish fell for it and still are.

Stalin was innocent and definitely Not Guilty. I don't know about the other guy though. tongue.gif
rabatat
If there's a bandwagon coming along Salmond will jump on it – remember Braveheart?

This sums it up better than I can:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...rs-alex-salmond
*Gordon*
Most football games have a gross overreaction. People need to remember its a game, and although it should be taken serious, it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
*greta*
For goodness sake what an over reaction. This is an old firm game after all, if you didnt have this form of passion there would be no point in having the game at all. Its that (as the good Dr says) that gives this game the edge over all others.
ionnsaigh
I thought it was great - highly exciting. I wonder what the defeated and dejected McCoist, said to the jubilant and buoyant Lennon ? Is our Ally a sectarian racist ? Lennon looked happy enough when he approached the disgruntled Glasgow Rangers (chief in waiting ) Lets face it, the gers have a disciplinary problem, as much as their fans - who sing those hate songs.
enrique
laugh.gif i am in ma 60s now and in my early years followed Rangers, the old firm games were always a bit hairy to go to , but most fans screwed the bobbin and stayed clear of the trouble that was around you , there always was and still is a minority of people who look for trouble, nowadays though as well as the people at the game you have thousands in the pubs and clubs getting well bladdered before and during the game, so its obvious the chances of trouble are multiplied , i am afraid for me the police chief who is up in arms and calling for the old firm games to be banned is in cloud cookoo land , maybe the police have it too easy nowadays , in my area if you see a policeman you feel like asking for his autograph as it is so rare nowadays, so when there is a bit of trouble they seem to take offence to be asked to do their job, the argument of domestic violence , i cant really go with that as these numpties dont need a fitbaw match for that , they do that when anything upsets them, the answer for me is get the clubs to ban supporters who are looking for trouble and arrest as many as possible , but give the courts the ammunition to really hammer these people, none of this community service as a punishment, a couple of years in the Bar-L will soon dampen their ardour
The Callands Rebel
Having Protestant and Catholic backgrounds, I tend to leave this game alone as my inlaws are staunch "Rangers".

One might get a doing if he mentioned Celtic.

But politicians need to keep the hell out of this game.

They've screw up the world as is, led by the "YANKS' a truly sorry bunch of 500 so leave footbal to the footballers, the "League" can handle the necessary means to apportion finers or whatever.

Rivalries are rivalries, I see the same intensity in the English Premier League, i.e. kicking, head butting and elbows.

Simply don't go to the game, its been this way for 40 years I know of.
Mathieson
Nice to see weeshuggie being so objective and totally non-partisan. laugh.gif

Speaking as someone who actually attends games I think it's all been blown out of proportion, although some of the combatant club officials need to refrain from the winding-up of opponents whilst getting so easily wound up themselves.
When I suggest a lot worse has gone on in the past, it's not to defend the scenes from Wednesday night, but more to question the motives for this sudden involvement of sundry police officers and politicians.
Quite possibly, the police, under pressure like all public sectors to reduce costs, would like to hand over the full charge of policing to the two clubs thereby freeing up the money they have to pay out of their budget and so intend to make the most of highlighting the situation to push their case.
The politicians? Well, history tells us that when the country is in such a state, they dearly love any opportunity to deflect attention away from their own failings (somebody already mentioned Salmond's tendency to jump onto any convenient bandwagon). Maybe they should be focussing their attention on the circumstances that make Scotland such a hell-hole of binge-drinking and violence on a weekly basis and then, just maybe, the general level of behaviour in Scotland - and not just at football matches - would significantly improve.
"T in the park" to an increasing degree year on year seems to suffer from a wide-spread drug problem, binge drinking, stabbings, sexual assaults and multiple arrests - I await the day that Salmond and Co jump on the bandwagon to ban that event.
rabatat
Don't think Salmond will jump on the "T in the Park" bandwagon – the only wagons he boards are the ones approaching an election.
*misterglasgow*
The recent Old Firm controversy is the end product ( release valve) ... of the Act of Settlement ... i.e No Catholic allowed on the throne ... and also the barring of a Roman Cathoilic being allowed to act as Prime Minister.

One good way of looking at this situation is ... 'Well at least we are not shooting each other ... The battle is on the playing field ....
TX4
Another Old Firm match another wee spat.

However if you take McCoist and Lennon out of the equation,everyone else involved were not brought up in the Rangers /Celtic tradition.

You also have police chief,s calling for the fixture to be banned. If their wishes were to be granted would that not be the first step to a police state?

You also have wee Salmond putting His tuppence worth in, how many Old firm games has he been to where he has actually bought a ticket to watch the match? He usually gets His tickets from freejunketslapupmeal.com.

Before both teams had their stadiums re-developed, Old Firm matches were watched by 100,000 plus at Ibrox and 80,000 plus at Parkhead, in the days when you could actually take booze into the game.

Perhaps the police chief's should do some research and compare the arrest rates then to the figures of today, as Ibrox holds 50% and Celtic park 80% of their capacities.

Old Firm games have been a tradition of growing up in the West of Scotland for over 100 Years. And even if both sides played each other every week, you would still get capacity crowds. So to call for them to be banned would be like asking David Coulthard to win a formula 1 Grand Prix in a home made bogey.
PabloDav
QUOTE (weeshuggie @ 6th Mar 2011, 11:45pm) *
No Jupiter, time has already told, hundreds of rangers bigots encouraged by some idiotic you tube post contacted the police demanding action. I have just discovered that 40% of Rangers supporters have deaf sisters who are absolutely crap at lip reading, must be Scottish education flaw. The whole farce has been created to deflect attention away from the thuggery of Rangers players. Diouf says in the Record that Lennon is no racist, however that won't stop the religiously bigoted, did I say religiously, religious, these morons couldn't find a religious arena wae a satnav that only located rosary beads and presbyterian bibles.
Mountain out a mole hill, yes in Lennon's case and no in Rangers case where their outrageous actions have been covered up by a smear and typical idiotic claim of racism.

Death threats, threats to his family, bullets in the post, all for having your team win a few games. The cry is that Lennon incited all this hatred. Paddy McCourt and Nial Mc Ginn were sent bullets too, their contribution to inciting hatred, they are Catholic and from Northern Ireland. Yes how the media change the facts.

Obviously a Celtic supporter Sir.
auldbutcher
Paplo boy canny work whit team you support ,hard wan tae work oot innit weeshug laugh.gif wink.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (auldbutcher @ 7th Mar 2011, 08:03pm) *
Paplo boy canny work whit team you support ,hard wan tae work oot innit weeshug laugh.gif wink.gif


Ye could ay ask whit school he went tae. rolleyes.gif
jimmy gee
I cant believe all the hype the old firm game is getting are the media with all there lies trying to start a bloodbath at the next old firm game all we saw was two teams going at it hammer and tongs two coaches having a wee handbag fight yet the media have turned it into world war three and we have the mindless bigots believing there gutter press lets bring back some sanity for all our sakes.
Jupiter
Can anyone say what was supposed to have been said and lip read?
ashfield
No but if you are desperate to know try the Sunday Mail website
Jupiter
Thanks Ashfield but Ill forego that literary pleasure.
*ANDY*
Very well said, Sir. I wholeheartedly agree - best to give that rag a miss!

Save our heroes.
Taggart
I think it is disgraceful the way that politicians try to hijack any high-profile or controversial event as a way of trying to divert attention from the fact that is them who are failing to do the jobs they are paid very well to do (with or without lavish expenses). A couple of weeks ago a middle-aged woman was attacked and raped in Glasgow city centre by a gang of fiends. It was the latest in a series of similar assaults in Glasgow. One Glasgow MSP was subsequently forced to resign after he suggested that the victim might be a prostitute who had put herself in harms way.

Politicians are employed to deal with the underlying causes of problems in society in a professional, responsible and effective manner. It is totally unacceptable that Glasgow's politicians not only consistently fail to do their jobs, but also are prepared to jump on any and every bandwagon that comes along that might divert attention from their own laziness and incompetence.

When are we going to have politicians in this once-great city who are (i) conscientious, (ii) productive and (iii) fit for purpose?
nippynell
QUOTE (ionnsaigh @ 7th Mar 2011, 10:30am) *
I thought it was great - highly exciting. I wonder what the defeated and dejected McCoist, said to the jubilant and buoyant Lennon ? Is our Ally a sectarian racist ? Lennon looked happy enough when he approached the disgruntled Glasgow Rangers (chief in waiting ) Lets face it, the gers have a disciplinary problem, as much as their fans - who sing those hate songs.

I agree...Lennon offered his hand.....I'm sure Ally whispered more than "SWEET NOTHINGS" in Lennons ear... huh.gif
Crewsy Fixer
I was having a look around the open viewing Rangers and celtic forums.

Celtic supporter on rangers fans, they're not normal, they hate us more than supporting their team.

Rangers supporter on celtic fans, they're not normal, thay hate us more than supporting their team.

I think both sides are being played, like a violin. Who is the conductor?
Crewsy Fixer
On a more serious note, word reaches me that Vicious celtic fans sent a
4-4-2 formation to Walter Smith in the post.
weeshuggie
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 7th Mar 2011, 01:41am) *
weeshuggie,can you tell us what was supposedly lipread?

A youtube clip was put up with Neil Lennon caught by quite a few hundred, by all accounts, rangers fans who had a deaf sister who could lip read and in the video they claimed Neil Lennon had called Diouf a F'''''g N''''r. They set up a cause and asked for everyone to phone the police and make allegations about Lennon. The police confirmed over two hundred complaints.

The News of the World went further and actually hired a recognised professional lip reader. Neil Lennon confirmed he had called Diouf a F'''''g D''k, the recognised professional confirmed that Neil Lennon had stated what he said he had spoken. How is it possible that so many Rangers supporters can sit back knowing their deaf sisters are being denied proper lip reading education. And further more how come so many rangers supporters have deaf sisters, I said how come so many rangers supporters have deaf sisters biggrin.gif

Diouf has stated Lennon is no racist and did not make any racist comment. You really must question the motives of so many rangers fans resorting to something so spiteful and vindictive.
Mathieson
QUOTE (nippynell @ 7th Mar 2011, 09:44pm) *
I agree...Lennon offered his hand.....I'm sure Ally whispered more than "SWEET NOTHINGS" in Lennons ear... huh.gif


Oh, you're "sure"? Maybe you could enlighten us all then. biggrin.gif
Rabbie
Pftt.

Load of auld tripe and trotters an as usual blown oot of aw proportion. Jist look with goes on in Inglish fitbaw¬ Kissing, hugging, dry humpin. Aye, it's a queer game awricht ¬¬

No me.. ah support a real game... rugby. It's no been ruined, yit.

This latest auld firm lovers spat has more entertainment value than those twa showers of over paid fairies trying to kick a baw aroond the park.

Keech stirring drama queens and politicians need to keep thier nebs oot of sport and dea wit the tax payer wants them to dea, go hing thumselves:D
hubert
QUOTE
A £500,000 funding package to tackle sectarianism in Scotland has been announced following a summit into Old Firm-related disorder.

It will be shared between organisations Sense over Sectarianism, Nil by Mouth and Show Racism the Red Card.

Police requested the summit after describing scenes at last weeks Celtic versus Rangers game as "shameful".

The game saw three red cards, several touch-line and tunnel confrontations and 34 arrests inside Celtic Park.

Representatives from both clubs, the Scottish Football Association (SFA) and Strathclyde Police attended the meeting in Edinburgh on Tuesday.

Continue reading the main story ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12670175

QUOTE
Ask yourselves a few questions. Is this just about football? No. It is also about policing and public order.

Very definitely within the realm of public policy. That is, politics.


Strathclyde Police confirmed on Thursday that it had asked for the summit following the previous night's match, which Celtic won 1-0.

A statement from the force said: "There can be no doubt that the levels of drunken violence that have blighted our communities and the number of people who have been arrested due to their sectarian behaviour is simply unacceptable.

"Something has to be done."

Read Brian Taylor's blog


"My take, in the bold print is how I see this"! Hubert
benny
Ah agree, Hubert. Despite some posters fond memories of the mayhem at the game forty years ago, and the assertion that "it's always been that way" and the "passion" of the players and aw the other rhubarb, uncalled for violence in "sport" has wider implications than jist the odd player gettin duffed up oan the pitch. Why should fitba players be exempt frae the laws that govern everybody else?
ashfield
So the Chief Constable House says that any player committing an offence on the field will find themselves in trouble with the police, how unusual.

Wonder if Duncan Ferguson would anything to say about that rolleyes.gif
Norman G
Why should football clubs have to solve problems in society?

The furore after the last old firm game masks the truth that politicians have failed for years to eliminate the root causes in society. i.e. unemployment, poor housing, the drink till I am wasted culture.

One post stated that the problem was caused by not allowing a catholic on the throne. Last time I looked this was the 21st century - why is anybody on the throne? Why is there still a monarchy?
weeshuggie
Let's be honest the government took action, they held a meeting, case closed for another few years until the next big rammy.

Close grounds, stop drinking, aye that'll be coco. Celtic and Rangers just accept losing a couple of million quid and every pub in the vicinity saying, oh aye shut us doon for the night we don't want to take money of football supporters. See they wee pink elephants in the sky, mair chance of one of them landing on yer heid than any of the other nonsense happening.
GG
The response from concerned publicans regarding a potential alcohol ban:

Billy Gold, of the Rangers-leaning Hielan Jessie in the East End, said:
QUOTE
“I would be very concerned if this idea gained credence, because we have never had any trouble and it would punish our customers for the faults of some other pubs.

We manage our pub perfectly well by taking on extra staff, by sound management, and by ensuring the pub isn’t totally packed – and we have Celtic-supporting customers on match days as well as Rangers fans.”

Tam Carberry, of Celtic-leaning Bairds Bar, near the Celtic ground, said:
QUOTE
“It would destroy our pub if this went ahead. We had not a single complaint during the last two match days, and totally rely on match days for our business – we don’t see a lot of custom Monday to Friday.

Most of the trouble comes from people drinking supermarket carry-outs – and if we see anyone trying to bounce in full of drink they’ve bought elsewhere we simply turn them away.”

Caroline Wright, of Jinty McGuinty’s Irish-themed bar in the West End, said:
QUOTE
“We don’t show matches, we don’t allow football colours, and we certainly don’t tolerate loutish behaviour.

But if you close the bars near the grounds you’ll simply get a dispersal of a local problem to other parts of the city.”

GG.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (weeshuggie @ 7th Mar 2011, 09:25pm) *
And further more how come so many rangers supporters have deaf sisters, I said how come so many rangers supporters have deaf sisters biggrin.gif


Laughed my heed aff.
I'm deaf but my sister's a Rangers supporter. laugh.gif
ashfield
Eh, what, can yi' speak up huh.gif
Dunvegan
QUOTE (Norman G @ 9th Mar 2011, 05:49am) *
Why should football clubs have to solve problems in society?

The furore after the last old firm game masks the truth that politicians have failed for years to eliminate the root causes in society. i.e. unemployment, poor housing, the drink till I am wasted culture.

One post stated that the problem was caused by not allowing a catholic on the throne. Last time I looked this was the 21st century - why is anybody on the throne? Why is there still a monarchy?

The Tories divide and rule and the gutless pseudo socialists never ever tackle this discrimination; what is in the European Union, against law and custom, is law in England and in her regional empire Scotland, Six Counties of Ireland and Wales. NO CATHOLICS!!! on the throne, the prime minister and I believe the Lord Privy seal. I only return to the country of my birth on Google Maps. I was and still am a second class citizen there. Yes Norman 21st century indeed.
benny
QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 9th Mar 2011, 10:04am) *
The Tories divide and rule and the gutless pseudo socialists never ever tackle this discrimination; what is in the European Union, against law and custom, is law in England and in her regional empire Scotland, Six Counties of Ireland and Wales. NO CATHOLICS!!! on the throne, the prime minister and I believe the Lord Privy seal. I only return to the country of my birth on Google Maps. I was and still am a second class citizen there. Yes Norman 21st century indeed.

Ah don't know whit it's got tae dae wi fitba, but ye should be grateful there's nae Catholics oan the throne. Efter aw thae Royals sittin oan it - ye don't know where they've been! biggrin.gif
Dave Grieve
I was in the Forfarshire Bar on the corner of Parly rd and Dundas st a wheen of years ago when a Rangers bus came in (they had been playing away to Dundee that day) the Forfarshire had a small snug area maybe 4 tables, that woman could come in and sit.
Anyway the Rangers supporters were very loud F#*#* and Blindin when one of the men sitting with his wife/ girfriend (not wearing any colours) asked them to stop swearing as there are woman present.
Not a word came from the Rangers supporters the only thing that happened was a pint glass was smashed into the mans face and the Rangers supporters all ran out of the pub.
The point is that if they had been arrested wearing their colours it would have been put down to football violence, in fact it was drunken thuggery nothing else.
JimD
So players are being warned they can be arrested for actions during a match now....when will we see the same during boxing matches, or the more violent cage fights.
goodfellows
friend came up with interesting idea to deter fans and clubs from this kind of behaviour at football games and it was a points reduction for guilty team or both if no finger of blame could be pointed at anyone team.a reduction of at least ten points was the idea
ashfield
QUOTE (JimD @ 9th Mar 2011, 03:21pm) *
So players are being warned they can be arrested for actions during a match now....when will we see the same during boxing matches, or the more violent cage fights.


Aye, and what about the rugby, you would need the polis at every match rolleyes.gif
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