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Dave Grieve
Like all Scots people whether living at home or having moved away we only want the best for Scottish football at club or nation level.
However I feel that the proposed new 10 team premier league is football suicide.
This new league setup is for the benefit of 2 teams only Celtic & Rangers plus the league sponsors & TV people.
Are we going to keep reducing the league every few years until Celtic & Rangers play each other every week? WILL THAT FINALLY MAKE THE MONEY MEN HAPPY?
As a lifelong Celtic supporter I never thought I would say this but for the sake of Scottish football it would be better for both Celtic & Rangers to go out of business and we have a more competitive league setup of at least 16 clubs.
As far as I can see the people running Scotland’s football are no better than the Kelly, Maley & White families that robbed Celtic blind and nearly put us out of business all those years ago!
I don’t know if it’s because I am getting older or what, but I feel that I need to speak up and say what I feel instead of just going with the flow and allowing people who pretend they know better to kill of our game?
How can we build up the Scottish player base when the name of the game is stay in the premier league at all costs this just encourages the clubs to buy foreign players instead of developing local talent.

Just as an exercise I went into the EUFA web page and worked out the positions of all the European Nations plus their league sizes. Out of 53 European nations Scotland are ranked in position 30 (the bottom half in Europe)
•The top 10 nations don’t have a league smaller than 16 clubs
•The top twenty nations the smallest league is 10 clubs. (This is Switzerland who also has the clubs from Liechtenstein playing in their league)
•The bottom nation has a 7 club league

Nation Clubs UEFA Position

Spain 20 1
Holland 18 2
Germany 18 3
England 20 4
Portugal 16 5
Croatia 16 6
Greece 16 7
Norway 16 8
Russia 16 9
Italy 20 10

Slovenia 12 11
France 20 12
Slovakia 12 13
Switzerland 10 14
Serbia 16 15
Montenegro 12 16
Denmark 12 17
Sweden 16 18
Czech republic 16 19
Turkey 18 20

Ukraine 16 21
Republic of Ireland 10 22
Belarus 12 23
Hungary 16 24
Northern Ireland 12 25
Bosnia 16 26
Austria 10 27
Bulgaria 16 28
Israel 16 29
Scotland 12 30

Lithuania 10 31
Rumania 18 32
Belgium 16 33
Armenia 8 34
Albania 12 35
Poland 16 36
Georgia 10 37
Latvia 10 38
Finland 14 39
FYROM (Macedonia) 12 40

Moldova 14 41
Estonia 10 42
Cyprus 14 43
Azerbaijan 12 44
Iceland 12 45
Wales 12 46
Luxemburg 14 47
Faroe Islands 10 48
Kazakhstan 12 49
Liechtenstein clubs play in Swiss league 50
Malta 10 51
Andorra 8 52
San Marino 7 53
hubert
Dave I have not read any other arguements one way or another as to what the number of teams would be best for the SPL, presently its 12 and what you are saying may well be very true, although I dont know enough to say how many I would like to see for the betterment of all Scottish teams.
This morning I watched the whole second half of the Aberdeen 0 Hearts 0 game on my PC, and it wasnt too bad a game a draw looked like a fair result, however having said that with both teams the players looked fit and capable of playing decent fitba yet, the playing conditions were poor, the field was bumpy and bare in a lot of areas, the ball bounced all over the place, to ask players to perform to a high standard is virtually impossible.
My point is with many games being posponed and a log jam resulting in many make up games on the same fields all within days of each game how is it possible to get lousy fields and playing surfaces even half decent, its not!
The elements control Scottish fitba.
I will never give up saying Scotland should play in better weather therefor better conditions for all including those that go to the games.
Now about Celtic and Rangers, you say getting an advantage moneywise with only a 10 team SPL, again you may be correct, also both the old firm teams have the fan support enmasse and already have an advantage on getting to sign better players paying higher wages its always been that way, not sure what could be done about that, its never been a level playing field for the vother teams.
If young Scottish players are to be developed, they should have the advantage of playing league fitba in the summer and better weather and better playing conditions otherwise it makes very little difference from what I can see in regards to any other changes one way or another that will help the decline in Scotland.
auldbutcher
The spl are like lemmings following there antiquated tunnel vision outlook i canny fae the life o me unnerstaun why we don't switch tae summer fit baw everything aboot it is a plus better conditions lead tae better fitbaw ,sitting on yer erse wie yer cojones lagged fer fear o misshap, member the brass monkey's ,does nothing tae tempt any right thinking person tae abandon his telly on a setterday efternoon wie it either pissin doon or the pitch on a parr wie the Crossmyloof in its heyday where he is spoilt fer choice fer gemes tae cherry pick fae or in some cosy wee howf the patter an the bevy flowing jasus its a no brainer.

But if it wis a balmy efternoon whits tae beat oot in the fresh air watching a product that would be much less half-hazard and most definitely enhanced by the conditions i rest my case.

As far as the auldfirm these blud suckers will continue to bleed the other teams fer aw they can get its the nature o the beast that and the cherry pickin of any young lad that takes there fancy off these said teams catch 22 comes tae mind.
tombro
Not such a bad idea, auldbutcher !

Here in Oz, our A-League plays its games in Summer and I think our summers are definitely hotter than Scotland's.

Another aspect is that there is far more chance of pitch recovery after games with the sun being there to aid in that recovery.

The negative; it means you'd be playing in Europe out of your season but that shouldn't be much of a problem given the recent record of Scots teams in Europe !

Tombro rolleyes.gif
Mathieson
QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 26th Feb 2011, 09:53am) *
Like all Scots people whether living at home or having moved away we only want the best for Scottish football at club or nation level.
However I feel that the proposed new 10 team premier league is football suicide.
This new league setup is for the benefit of 2 teams only Celtic & Rangers plus the league sponsors & TV people.
Are we going to keep reducing the league every few years until Celtic & Rangers play each other every week? WILL THAT FINALLY MAKE THE MONEY MEN HAPPY?
As a lifelong Celtic supporter I never thought I would say this but for the sake of Scottish football it would be better for both Celtic & Rangers to go out of business and we have a more competitive league setup of at least 16 clubs.
As far as I can see the people running Scotland’s football are no better than the Kelly, Maley & White families that robbed Celtic blind and nearly put us out of business all those years ago!
I don’t know if it’s because I am getting older or what, but I feel that I need to speak up and say what I feel instead of just going with the flow and allowing people who pretend they know better to kill of our game?
How can we build up the Scottish player base when the name of the game is stay in the premier league at all costs this just encourages the clubs to buy foreign players instead of developing local talent.

Just as an exercise I went into the EUFA web page and worked out the positions of all the European Nations plus their league sizes. Out of 53 European nations Scotland are ranked in position 30 (the bottom half in Europe)
•The top 10 nations don’t have a league smaller than 16 clubs
•The top twenty nations the smallest league is 10 clubs. (This is Switzerland who also has the clubs from Liechtenstein playing in their league)
•The bottom nation has a 7 club league

Nation Clubs UEFA Position

Spain 20 1
Holland 18 2
Germany 18 3
England 20 4
Portugal 16 5
Croatia 16 6
Greece 16 7
Norway 16 8
Russia 16 9
Italy 20 10

Slovenia 12 11
France 20 12
Slovakia 12 13
Switzerland 10 14
Serbia 16 15
Montenegro 12 16
Denmark 12 17
Sweden 16 18
Czech republic 16 19
Turkey 18 20

Ukraine 16 21
Republic of Ireland 10 22
Belarus 12 23
Hungary 16 24
Northern Ireland 12 25
Bosnia 16 26
Austria 10 27
Bulgaria 16 28
Israel 16 29
Scotland 12 30

Lithuania 10 31
Rumania 18 32
Belgium 16 33
Armenia 8 34
Albania 12 35
Poland 16 36
Georgia 10 37
Latvia 10 38
Finland 14 39
FYROM (Macedonia) 12 40

Moldova 14 41
Estonia 10 42
Cyprus 14 43
Azerbaijan 12 44
Iceland 12 45
Wales 12 46
Luxemburg 14 47
Faroe Islands 10 48
Kazakhstan 12 49
Liechtenstein clubs play in Swiss league 50
Malta 10 51
Andorra 8 52
San Marino 7 53


Yeah Dave, let's put Rangers and Celtic "out of business" : that should fix things good and proper I'm sure. Never mind the many tens of thousands of Rangers and Celtic supporters like myself who turn up week in week out, home and away, spending a not inconsiderable amount of their disposable income in doing so. Whatever happens, I'm sure we'll all find something to do, maybe get the weekly shop done, give the car a wee wash, tidy up the front green, stuff like that. And whenever we start to get all misty-eyed about the good old days when we followed the team we supported all our days - along with our family and friends - we can always take comfort in the fact that some guy in Joburg is occasionally watching a more entertaining product like St Mirren versus Dunfermline on his plasma TV. Just how quickly do you think we could put your plan into action? biggrin.gif
Dave Grieve
Morning Mathieson
I think you miss my point, the last thing i would want to see happen is for the old firm to go out of business, but it seems to me that the original change from the old 18 team format was at the instigation of the old firm.
The new proposed formated is very much in the interests of the old firm as they dont want to lose 2 money making fixtures.
My suggestion of a 16 team set up is purely based on the wish to see Scottish football prosper with more home grown talent coming through.
If the 10 team league is passed all that will happen is that ALL the teams in that league will BUY whatever players they can in order to, in the case of the old firm win as many trophies as possible and in the case of ALL the others ensure survival in the top flight. all that will happen is that less home grown talent will come through
When i did that exercise with the national teams what became apparent was that the more successful a country was in terms of EUFA and FIFA standings the bigger the home league this in turn means that there is a bigger pool of home grown talent coming through.
I also think that a change to summer football might be a good thing, but they have been talking about that since the 60s that i can remember.

On another change for the sake of change matter, when they changed the points for a win from 2 to 3 points I worked out for the three seasons before the change that even if the 3 points system had come in earlier then the same teams would have come in first second and third and the same teams would have been relegated as with the 2 point system in all of those seasons.
All i am saying is that if we do change make it for the future long term improvement of the Scottish game and not for the interests of the money men.
Mathieson
Forgive my irreverent response Dave, no harm meant. smile.gif
You make a lot of good points but I don't know what the answer is, if it was an easy fix it would have been fixed before this. One thing I do know, and it's been proven often enough, is that Rangers and Celtic do not have an exclusive monopoly in looking after their own interests first.
Dave Grieve
The incidents on and of the field after Wednesdays cup replay only makes my argument stronger for enlarging the league and going back to a one game home and away season. i know you cant legislate for being drawn together in cup competitions and possible replays but at least there wont be so many games so close together.
zascot
Slightly off the subject we have had many discussions on U.K. football and one guy made what I thought was a goog suggestion. When a team are promoted up a division they should be given amnesty from going down the next season. His logic was that when they come up they have little finances and by the time they accumulate some to buy better players their fate is already decided. So if they know they are staying up it will make them more attractive to some players who don`t want to take the chance of down a division at the end of the season.Any thoughts?
irrie
Morning all.Hi Zasccot. On the face of it this sounds like agood idea but the teams who always seem to be near the bottom of the league are never going to vote for it. Cheers.
enrique
i have already out my thoughts to this thread , although i am a Falkirk supporter, i also think the 10 team league is a no no , its been tried before, listening to Walter Smith and the Celtic management i think they also would like a larger league , my idea would be at least a 14 team league , but with 3 down and 3 up system this would allow teams like Falkirk a wee breather if they get relegated , knowing they had a chance to regroup and have a good chance of coming up again , it would also allow the old firm to play some friendlies in the overseas countries that support them , as its getting more like they will not be playing champions league football , this would bring in the much needed revenuue that they badly need, the other so called big teams ie. Hearts, hibs, aberdeen, if they cant survive in this sort of league then they dont deserve to stay up, i think it would encoursge a more attacking style from the other clubs .
Jim D
The 10 team league is not to benefit the old firm. It's to benefit the provincial clubs. It was only a few years ago that they wanted rid of the old firm. Why, the old firm until then, had not taken anything out of the SPL pot at the end of each season - a deal that had been agreed in order to go to a 12 team league. All of a sudden, when the old firm became eligable for their cut, the other teams wanted rid of them.
in the current situation, the "wee" team gets 100,000 TV cash each time they play one of the old firm. 4 pay days per season. Going to a larger number of teams would reduce the income for the provincial clubs. Also, there would be more meaningless games and this would cause attendances to drop. Although I can't see the attendances dropping lower than Rangers last away game of TV - 5000. And I don't blame the Gers fans for not going. Simples!

As for the suggestion of no relegation for the team newly promoted? That would be crazy! Would it be fair if the newly promoted team finished bottom of the league, 10 points below its nearest rival, only for the rival to be relegated? At the moment, the relegated team gets a "parachute" payment to allow them to try an keep their squad and make a challenger for promotion.
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