I had a pm from Jupiter showing concern why I was 'absent' from the board - hoping I was okay. Very nice/kind of him. He seemed a a bit despondent that there wasn't much to discuss on the board so I thought I would post this for him; knowing it would cheer him up

From Dodgy Daves favourite newspaper - 'The Daily Star'

I dont see anything in this post/report which could be considered as contentious.Im sure every person putting in a hard days graft and paying their taxes will be happy to see the spongers taken care of.I thought the subject of benefit cheats had been milked dry,Tommy.

Incidentally,Im quite chuffed you have put up a post in my nom de plume.
Joop

I thought the subject of benefit cheats had been milked dry,Tommy.
(Maybe that was worrying Duncan Smith!)

Just a little thank thanks for your kind pm, Jupiter

What employer would want to take on a 'Skiver'
During my business life I had a few sent to me from the dole - no way would I take them on!

Ah'm interested in this wan, Tommy. How did ye manage tae fire yersel?

after years of skiving, fiddles - National service, MN, and business I found God, Benny - had a good talk wi' ma self and chucked it all in. I'm a changed man now

Ahn i worked aside many o them in butchers factory's when i wis a gaffer they got a quiet word in the bog, if they didnnae shape up it wis butch's boot up the erse as i used tae call ,it you skive and yer putting mair work ontae yer fellow worker,the boot up the erse wisnae physical, it wis a weeks notice an by by ,the quiet word in the bog you don't demean some wan in front o every wan, wee bit o decorum an the chance tae mend yer wies ,wan or two took me up on it an nae harm done, the wastrels ,naw ahm no talkin aboot the prince ponces ,got there erses kicked oot the door. yer boss gives you a honest days pey then earn it or ship oot .

AB...We called it RIP andPIP......Rebuke in Private...Praise in Public.

hi jupe wanse upon a time a wis caught short it wis late at night polis dun me guess whit it wis a female magistrate jasus ,baiamc,black affronted i ah magistrates court wis gonna say wid ye like tae examine the evidence yer grace but ach she widda asked me tae meet her in chambers an am a wan wumman man

Something for Sunday Morning?
Proposals being announced this week set out plans by IDS for the workshy to be stripped of their benefits.That is layabouts who have become so dependant on benefits that they dont know how to work.There will be the introduction of compulsory community or office work to teach the long term unemployed the self discipline to hold down a job.
This has got to be a step forward in helping those dependant on benefits back into the work place and also helping to cut down on the massive national benefit bill.
Well done IDS for this innovative approach

And this government are shelving police, fire services etc.
What will they booster, prison guards, security guards.

I think they are shutting 8 prisons.

Ah well they might recomission the hulks!

HMP Weare?

Get them on community service to earn their benefits

Joop writes 'compulsory community or office work' as being a progressive move - isn't it more akin to 4/5000 years ago, when the Pharoah's were having their pyramids built?# ie slave labour
(I thought community service was seen as some form of alternative punishment - if so, is it right to possibly 'punish' people for being in receipt of benefits?)

before we get 'them' on this 'service' shouldn't we be giving 'them' some kind of a skill, in order to DO these services? ie a painter, paints - most office workers surely at least have to have some form of literacy level, and computer skill these days? Who's going to do the training?

Let me read about the infrastructure being put in place in order for IDS (these letters once stood for 'Inter Dictor Strike' to me, btw), and his proposals even have the slightest chance of success, then I'll begin to believe he's got some Messiah type qualities.



And yet all the while, those 16-18 year olds sink deeper and deeper into that black hole - that abyss which turns them into disaffected and bitter human beings - and the problems of tomorrow
Youth projects are being closed down faster than you can say IDS - and those who have limited ability/eligibility to 'bridge the divide' between elementary school and higher education 'sentenced' to a miserable and unfulfilled future.

Call me a bit pessimistic if you like - but does anyone REALLY care?

We need INVESTMENT too - investment in those young people who will soon NOT be aspiring to 'UNI' (supposedly an achievement in its own right these days), due to ENORMOUS fees (which still need to be PAID for btw). This new government, although I wish them well, have still many important issues to resolve - JUST as important, if not MORE so, than trying to make a benefits system more 'fit for purpose'.

And we STILL haven't done anything about addressing much needed REFORM of our political system. In fact, I believe were actually going BACKWARDS, in actually INCREASING the overall numbers in the House of Lords - whilst doing nothing to reduce numbers of MP's!
I would like to see them introduce a moritorium for bye elections, for example.

Hope this is enough 'food for thought' Joop

I knew you’d be chuffed with my reviving the ‘Benefit cheats’ for you, Jupiter (My wee thank you for your kind thoughts ) A quick search thru your posts and I can’t find any complains/comments on any of this government’s ‘spending review’ other then ‘Benefit cheats’ – not even a complaint that the tax payers are paying for Cameron’s personal photographer; charged with producing a good image of him!
It is said that IDS went to America to see how they handle work shy/benefit cheats, their Social problems, and is copying US methods.
Yes, go to the country that comes tops in the West with Social problems – U.K comes second - and see how they go about solving – should say unsolving – their problems. Don’t go to our Euro neighbours that have less social problems than U.K. and ask why.
No attempt is made to ask why we come top in Western Europe for our workshy/scroungers/drug addicts/alcoholics/teenage pregnancies/ crime.
The truth is the right wing here admires the U.S. rightwing contempt for social democracy.
The IDS program is back to the days of making the poor/unemployed ashamed of their poverty, it's all their 'own fault'.
I saw your post, Jupiter where you showed disbelief with Heathers post – unable to comprehend it –that some would actually go without rather than take up benefits they were entitled to; this reinforces my post to you to ‘Get some in’ ‘Phew’ you say with disbelief
Unbelievable to me that you, as an ex-police man and of mature years are unaware of this, can’t understand it. I put it down to your not accepting that there are those who suffer from ‘unfortunate circumstances’ and those who gain from ‘good circumstances’.
Heather mentioned how my generation who relied on the Parish were ashamed of it, wouldn’t tell or admit it. Very true, and that was down to the Establishment; it was our fault we were poor, we were workshy/lazy – the IDS of the days said.
Here is something for you NOT to understand; when my brothers and self got an issue of parish clothes my parents took them to the pawn shop; with the money we then went to that barras and bought second –hand clothes. You can’t get guess/understand why, eh?
There is only one way, as other Euro nations have proved, to solve our social problems; and it, if addressed will take at least 2 generations to solve. Good social housing for the masses, get rid of our sink estates and a vast improvement with our education system

This,below, is our major problem: we are still ruled by those who have never had to work and live off inherited wealth!

I think you should face up to the fact that for years the workshy have been getting a free ride and now we have a government determined to put a stop to it.The only people with anything to worry about are those who have milked it at the expense of others.Others who get out and do a turn,.pay taxes every week and do their best to contribute to the country not just tak tak tak everything they can.
I make no apology for my views on this particular aspect of the cut backs and Ill gladly make comment on any others you may care to suggest once you and your china get back into the 21st century.
Is the Barras still open? I need a hair shirt to punish my self for having the audacity to hold views and make opinions on what I think will be good for the country.

And that will sove all the countries problems, eh, Jupe, like it has done in the U.S.
It is you and our establishment that wants to get into the 21st century.(didn't Osborne say, like you - 'No apoligies').
Our problem is that up to WW2 the U.K. 'lived off Empire' and can't grasp, as other Euro nations have, that countries in the 21st century have to be 'self suffcient' - Well there is a wee bit realistaion of it ,Haig went around begging trade from countries like India, oh counties with a long memory of what Britain did to them! Seems like Obama has had more success!.
And what has U.K. got left to flog abroad, other than arms, what the Thatcher government didn't destroy - manufacturing - big business has 'outsourced' for bigger profits.
Can't even buy a Christams prezzie toy that's made in this country.

(What I've heard of the Barras - these boards - is it's where you go now to buy drugs and knocked off gear! - don't know if it's true)

P.S......so there are at least a million odd jobs for the workshy to take up, Jupe

Im well into the 21st century,and I dont know what Osborne said but what I do know is that finally something is being done to get long term unemployed back into the work ethic and finally pull the plug on the gravy train.Tommy you will never get me to change my views even with your extensive history lectures which I would enjoy in another time and place because I know you have a wealth of experience but as for your grip on the big picture at present....well you just dont get it.Tell us truthfully that you are quite happy for the lazy workshy fraudsters claiming benefit to go on as they are? Are you?

Tell us truthfully that you are quite happy for the lazy workshy fraudsters claiming benefit to go on as they are? Are you?

I'm very unhappy with this lot- below- of workshy/fraudsters claiming what they believe is their 'god given rights' to benefits' (add the Royals to that!) and keep the country living in 'yesteryear'


What you don't grasp, Jupe - and IDS conveniently ignores, -is that in time of full employment you can bring out tough rules -as they did in the 50s'/60s- to make long term uenmployed to take jobs they were directed to or lose their dole. In times of high unemployment, with more to come, it's ridiculous. But then this government know that; it's all directed at many people like yourself, and there are a lot of you, old trick, give the masses something to hate, take the minds off the other sneaky things they getting thru like attacking the welfare State that the Tories have always despised.

As for the real workshy/skivers( and they have little effect on a countries ecconomy) - no employers want them, sadly in a civilised society they have to be supported


As, for my 'not getting it' I still travel extensively, and until very recently all round Europe - first year I haven't been to Berlin in a long time.
Visit London/Manchester/Liverpool regulary - made a point with my kids - and my older G/kids - of showing them the 'real inner cities' places where for cops....tho they deny it, are 'No Go' areas.

P.S.........'Not getting it' - this from a man whoe feigns disbelief that someone in need would not take up benefits they are entitled to

Clue, Jupe: 'Humiliation - it numbs the mind and destroys the soul!

I've got a wee idea for IBS, sorry I mean IDS (canny think why I got mixed up there ) Maybe all these "voluntary tasks" they are going to make people do could be called "jobs" and they could actually pay those people a living wage to do them. Schmit, sorry Smith and his compadres are so removed from reality they should be writing scripts for soap operas, then again, that would make them too far fetched, eh.

Councils aw over Britain are shortly going to make thousands if not hunners o thousands o people redundant but streets will still need cleaning parks will still need tidying thats ok the men and women on the broo will dae it and for nothing anaw whit a great idea.

Its already happening, irrie - the lists huv already been drawn up of who's for the chop - and the hatchet men are swinging away quite merrily - I'm sure there will be plenty of 'xmas presents' in council 'stockings' this year.

The biggest problem wi' thinking people kin jist clean the streets/parks - or perform ANY menial task, WELL and with SOME sort of pride is to have an INCLUSIVE society and offer prospects. I've said this before - just WHO are we expecting to supervise and control all this?

Maybe awe oor redundant civil servants? I'm sure they'd be so grateful they were still doing something useful, eh? NOT

We ain't seen nothing yet - as the song used to go.

I don't know why Joop seems to think he's in the 21st Century - were getting closer to complete class distinction, every day - much more reminiscent of the 19th Century. There are HUGE gulfs about to appear - between the elite of our 'modern' world (read upper crust') - the 'wannabees' - (read, nuevaux riche) - the jist aboot 'haves' (middle class) - the 'have nots' (what we once called 'working class) - and the seriously 'have nots' - there at least THREE different classes here.
Those who ARE UNABLE TO WORK (for whatever reason), those who are temporarily out of work (unemployed), and finally - those manky cretins - the anathema's of society - the great unclean - the lowest of the low - the fraudster - the benefit cheat - the less than sub human 'class'.

Welcome to the 21st Century - NOT! In Queen Victoria's day, at least we could get some natural wastage, by syphoning off some of the less fortunate in society, off to the Crimea and the like. Nothing like a wee Empire disturbance to cull a few pesky cretinous unworthys, eh?

Yeah - in this day and age, 150 years on - just look how weve 'advanced' - theres a high falootin idea ai huvin a BIG SOCIETY - wie us 'awe in it the gither' - only those without or those who are not amongst the haves (5/6% of the population), kin jist volunteer their services fur free if they've no goat a joab - or anythin' ELSE tae dae!

Some might call this PROGRESS???

Jupes ‘china’ Osborne and his kind have never had experience of the real world – more understanding for Osborne – who inherited a multi million pound trust fund and lives in a 2 million pound house in West London – than for our Jupe. Like Jupe they do not believe/accept that many have ‘bad circumstances’ in life. ‘Oh, it’s all their own fault’ and all their ‘Good circumstances’ of inherited wealth was down to the cleverness of their families. – They are entitled to it. Mind I’m sure they give a regular donation to this and that charity to prove they have a conscience, which they do not have.
They who often speak of family values have no real family values – how can they when they pay someone to change their offspring’s nappies for them.
You don’t have to go back to Victorian times, Davy, for the to-days right wing Tories attitude to the weak/poor/ inadequate in our society it’s the ideology they have always had – survival of the strongest.
They will never really address the countries social ills – it is the country’s social ills, poor education, bad housing that gets/keeps them in power no matter which party is in office – oh, and have the odd war!
Tories have every reason to be anti- the E.U. – knowing they dare not leave it, as now the largest percentage of our exports go there – they are fearful of the day when the E.U. will drag the U.K. into the 21st.Century
P.S. I have no intention of trying to change your views Jupiter; you have all the attributes to make you a good Tory

Morning Tommy,
Burning the midnight oil again with your propaganda?
Its very kind of you attributing all those words to me and also not attempting to change my views.
As Ive said many times before I believe in commenting on what I see freely and no, I dont support any political party but if as you say I have the attributes of a good Tory,. that then would put me in the majority of people in the UK who voted for them.
Terry towelling or pampers,George?

Good morning to you Jupe.....I think history shows the Tories came tops in the world during the 19th/ 20th centuries for propoganda until the Yanks replaced them -----John Mills was no match for John Wayne
And if you check your Maths you'll find the majority of the times the Tories were in office - I say in office as even out of office they often control the strings of power - the majority of Brits did not vote for them under our poltical system.

IDS is not the first to come out with such proposals, Churchill as home secretary proposed it in the late 30s, tho' he was more honest about it, called it 'work camps' and intended to use the army to control them. Then in the 30s of course unemployed crims, even petty crims, were often give the choice; Prison or the army.

Thats you off with your history lessons again.

The majority of people in the UK did not vote for them, Joop.

Tories polled 10,726,614 votes or 36.1 % of those voting.

Labour polled 8,609,527 votes or 29.0% of those voting.

LibDems polled 6,836,824 votes or 23.0% of those voting.

Another few million voted for the smaller parties.

So, even discounting votes cast for the smaller parties, only 36% voted Tory, whilst 52% voted against them.

Has it not already happened ( about 70 odd years ago?)
I think they were called untermenschen back then !

And history repeating itself. - It was only WW2 that blocked Churchill's proposed 'Work camps' but Hitler used his ideas !!!!

Another history 'lesson' being repeated by the Tories:
Maggie Thatcher blamed the single mothers for the countries woes - this lot changed it to benefit cheats

Tories polled 10,726,614 votes or 36.1 % of those voting.

If I remember right, Benny, that was the voting figure that put Hitler in power
(Another wee history leson for Jupiter)

Life just got harder for the workshy and benefit scroungers with the introduction of a three strikes and you are out policy included in the introduction of a new claimant contract.Full details in todays Daily Telegraph outlines a tough no nonsense approach which will be welcomed by hard working citizens who watch as their taxes go into the bottomless benefit pit.

You've got some memory, Tommy. Wur you wan o the wans that voted fur him?

Just like Jupiter believes the majority of Brits voted for the Tories, Benny, most people believe the majority of Germans voted for Hitler.
And re- Jupiter's post above....continuing history lesson for him. He did what Jupiter praises - copied Churhill's proposed idea for the unemployed and introduced 'Work camps' .(Soon to be called 'Concentration camps')
The right wing factions here and in France showed great support for him.....well until he started to come West instead of continuing East!!

When history is ignored it repeats itself!

When history is ignored it repeats itself!




Wonder who that reminds me of

Jist one slight adjustment to your take on things there, Tommy.

It was US who 'invented' Concentration Camps (I'm sorry to say).

11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day - we SHALL remember them!

Correct me if Im wrong Tommy(as I know you always will) but were concentration camps not introduced by the British during the Boer War.Thats the time you got the VC at Rourkes Drift is it not?
Or was that a different war.I seem to recall there was a Zulu War?

Have you already been accepted for your executive position wi the 'gulags' then, Joop?

Or wid ye rather take a more 'hands on' approach?

Of course you're right Jupiter....well nearly right, Brits first used them in their East African colonies for Blacks that opposed them, as did the French in thier colonies.

I must away now for a 'Pub lunch' by the river
GIve you some time to think up some more 'cliches'

Weedavy,Ive already done my time in the Gulag,Im mean Sheriff court and left the hands on to the minnions.

[quote name='wee davy' date='11th Nov 2010, 12:02pm' post='326558']
Jist one slight adjustment to your take on things there, Tommy.

It was US who 'invented' Concentration Camps (I'm sorry to say).
Are you going back to the 'Injun days', Davy....'The reservations'?., well you'd be right there but I think the words 'concentration camps' was first heard/used during the Boer war. I think also it was a British woman who used the words, forgotten her name, that visited the camps the Brits set up in S.Africa and was applauled by the conditions for the woman and children.

'Scorched earth policy' was another phrase that came out of the Boer war - destroying the fields of boer farmers but of course that was used in warfare long before that war.

(We shall remember them-----aye cost nothing to remember the dead, but costly to remember the survivors!)

My 'pub lunch' awaits!

Bush/Blair/Tories/Jupiter?????

Tommy your dinner is getting cold.Talk about the pot calling the kettle black,you really take the biscuit.

They've actually been a feature throughout history.
In the ancient classical world, there are NUMEROUS examples.



There IS a cost to be extracted for not remembering/honouring our dead or injured from two world wars, and numerous other conflicts since,. right up to this present day That cost is incalculable, with respect to the freedoms we all enjoy as a result of their sacrifice.

WeeDavy, a vey poignant article on todays BBC site on the story of how the Unknown Soldier was selected.

away and eat your lunch and give us all peace

Hitler had a smaller percentage vote and gained power. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown's last labour government also had a smaller percentage vote in 2005 than David Cameron and retained power in a MAJORITY government. Strange way in which democracy works. Cameron and his cronies get a larger percentage of the vote but don't get a majority. If broon had gotten the same percentage vote he would have had a majority.
In Hitler's case his presidential campaign of 1932 he garnished 30% and he became chancellor by appointment of Hindenburg in early 1933. He took command, like Gordon Brown, unelected, when Hindenburg died

Tony Blar's landslide goverment of 1997 had only a 43% cut of the vote. In fact he got the same percentage as Hitler attained in his second round vote, the same 43%

No Government in Britain, as far as I am aware, has had a majority of the vote but they have almost all had majority governments. If labour or the conservatives have had a majority I am sure someone will be able to inform us. Strange that Blair and Hitler gained so much power from such small support. Now how much of a vote did George Bush and Bill Clinton get. Did the Americans back Bush in a manner that the people of Britain never accorded to Blair.

So with less votes Blair had a majority government with no majority support. That means Cameron has a bigger mandate than Blair. Okay Dave lets invade Spain for it's sunshine and cheap booze. Anyone up for invasion of Brussels to abolish the Euro. Cameron has the mandate but he is not a man.

Can someone give the figures for that one.