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Tommy Kennedy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-11190561

Must have taken some ‘thought’ for the ‘good’ cop to report his colleague – he won’t be very popular with others.
Very shocking that other cops witnessing the bully cop did not go to the woman’s help – bad cops

(sorry, heading should have said GOOD, not God.....typo)
glasgow lass
Tommy seeing this brutality makes my blood boil, Id love tae see this coward of a cop in a cell wae ma big son, he'd be begging for mercy. Shame on him to say the least.
Jupiter
One of the most important things I learned in my police career was never to take or make it personal.Despite the bumps, bruises,black eyes and broken bones I never once took it as personal.
Certainly if someone assaulted me I had no hesitation in retaliating and defending myself using reasonable force under the circumstances.
This officer is a disgrace and quite rightly is facing the courts and possibly worse.
wombat
there is an average of 10--15 deaths in custody per year (aboriginals)been over 400 in a twenty yr period , yet not one cop charged. just google australian aboriginal deaths in custody for info,some of the stories will shock U eg auld drunk guy left in divvy van in 50 degree temp died and was found with third degree burns on his body,the list goes on and on ,the wurst offenders being south australian police with queensland police a close second. mad.gif
Tommy Kennedy
QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 5th Sep 2010, 06:14pm) *
Tommy seeing this brutality makes my blood boil, Id love tae see this coward of a cop in a cell wae ma big son, he'd be begging for mercy. Shame on him to say the least.

I think the cops' behind the desk' who did not interfeer in the brutality should be charged as well. As policemen they had a duty to stop an assault - even a private citizen has that duty.
I do not believe most policemen are of his ilk but policemen who witness a collegue - as in the recent video of a cop assualting a guy, resluting in his death,- and they're were many of them - who do not come forward bring discredit to the police force.

I wonder how the media got hold of the video - I doubt very much if the police authority produced it willingly.
Rabbie
That was really awful, going on the footage it would seem like unreasonable force in my view. Bloody awful to see a wee women like that getting manhandled like that.

Where the hell where the female staff to deal with this or intervene.

Chilled my blood to see that in this day and age.

I wid gie that effing porcine swineage at least 10 years in a womens' prison fur that.
Rabbie
Tommy the same questions came to my mind.

Will we get the truth? I think I ken a wee bit what was going on here. That pig was a cop shop bully.

I ken copper or not if I seen that going on I would be right in there and stop it copper, mate or not. Then ye wid have to polish me dented armour me auld mate. haw haw,

No one who treats a human, pissed or not like that is a friend of mine.

That was not a instance of "minimum force". It was a bully of a pig on a power trip with a helpless wee wuman. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I wid gie the bastard power trip, a 1000W cattle prod up its erse.

What hurts we give power to these sorts and its abused. What is is even worse his fellow colluegues did fook all at the time to intervene.

Hmmm.

Ah dinnea care fur wee clipes, Yet, ah wid shop on a bent polis, they are the lowest of the low, betrayers of trust.
Melody
What a dusgusting brutal bully this policeman is. I hesitate to use the word 'man' for him. I hope they throw away the key on him. Are there no regular psychological tests done on policemen? If not, there certainly should be. It chilled my blood too Rabbie.
Tommy Kennedy
Being a sergeant he will have been in the force for some years - how many other acts of brutality has he been responsibly for, and got away with.
Melody
What a sobering thought Tommy. Imagine how his family must feel watching that.
Tommy Kennedy
Click the video to hear woman tell of her ordeal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-11190561

So, he's due to be sentanced to-morrow, Tuesday

(Sorry it's not the video - will try again)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-11190561
Tommy Kennedy
Oh, it is there - scroll further down
Melody
Why would he be suspended on full pay when his cruelty was there for all the world to see?
glasgow lass
One of the privileges of being a police officer Melody.
Melody
Well it's just wrong Glasgow Lass.
Tommy Kennedy
QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 6th Sep 2010, 07:17pm) *
One of the privileges of being a police officer Melody.

Yea, like the cop who assaulted the guy in London - a non-demonstrator, who died from the assault; as the enquiry took over six months to reach a conclusion it was said it was past the 'Time frame' to charge him with assault - not even sacked!!!
martini
QUOTE (glasgow%20lass @ 6th Sep 2010, 02:17pm) *
One of the privileges of being a police officer Melody.


no, one of the privileges of belonging to a union.
Lennox
I find that clip very didturbing, what kind of training or lack of it goes on in the police force these days .

I have friends here on are on the job I can't imagine what would happen to them if it was them on this footage ..that "man " should be lock up and lose his job.
glasgow lass
Privileges or union behind this him he's obviously felt that he was in a safe place to act out his aggression. This was a very cowardly act towards a defensless woman. This sergeant was psychologically unfit to hold his position. Now that he's lossed his job, maybe he'll get some anger managemant for his own sake.
Tommy Kennedy
The cop was an ex-soldier; what a danger he must have been to his comrades and any civvies in a foreign land!
glasgow lass
It gives me the creeps just to think of working with such a person, a know ah'd feel very threatened.
Tommy Kennedy
6 months for the basket!


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/07/p...custody-assault
Jim D
QUOTE (martini @ 7th Sep 2010, 02:35am) *
no, one of the privileges of belonging to a union.


Police officers are not allowed to be a member of a union or a political party.
wombat
sez who?
Tommy Kennedy
Well he won't be jobless when ge gets outa jail - he'll always get a job as a bouncer; he's proven he knows how to throw woman out of a club!
Jupiter
Its heartening to see that this officer has been dealt with fairly and firmly and has been shown no form of favouritism by the bench.He will have a long time to ponder on his mistake.
A sad day for a man who served society in his capacity as a soldier and a police officer and who has lost his all for a few minutes of madness.
Melody
None of us are allowed by the law to have a few moments of madness like his Jupiter. He is obviously a complete brute. I noticed that in a previous post you mentioned the word ' retaliate' in reference to how a policeman may react to an assault. I was under the impression that a policeman was only allowed to 'restrain' in a situation where he may find himself being attacked. 'Retaliate' suggests that he may hit back. Can you enlighten me please as to what exactly 'relatiate' would mean here?
Not that he found himself being attacked in this particular case.
Tommy Kennedy
Your post Jupiter is suggestive that the brute ‘only had a few moments of madness’. You don’t have to be a shrink to recognise that it was his character and most likely as a ‘serving soldier’ behaved similar. Every recruit has known at least one’DI’ who used his position to bully.
The judge had no alternative but to imprison him when the whole world saw the video
Shameful that the cops behind the desk did nothing to restrain this brute but better still, use your word ‘retaliate’
I would like to know how the media got hold of the video; most certainly not voluntary handed over by the police authority
Jupiter
Tommy and Melody Ill do my best to enlighten you.
"Retaliate"...to fight back in kind to an injury (or affront).Thats in the dictionary.
You are quite right Melody in your assertion that none of us in law are allowed to have moments of madness like this.You might have it but hopefully as in this instance it is severely punished.
Melody if you try to envisage a situation where an officer,no not just an officer is attacked,any citizen.He has the right to defend himself.If he is punched or kicked repeatedly he is entitled to reciprocate.If the aggressor is then overcome and subdued this is when any action by the officer or citizen eg continued kicking or punching becomes an assault.
If you have the time or inclination you can search this out as it is enshrined in Scottish Law by way of a stated case.
Tommy I repeat what I said to Melody about the moment of madness.
I know nothing about the man,his past history or his mental state.Perhaps you do as you have made the comment about his character.
Im also surprised at your comment about bullying DI.As anyone with the slightest knowledge at all of the workings of the police would know recruits and DIs have very little contact.A recruit will spend perhaps a month in the CID where far from being bullied he would be brought in to judge his potential as a future detective officer and a career in the CID explained to him.I never once came across a bullying supervisor,a few harsh words now and then usually deserved.
"The Judge had no alternative to imprison him "is also interesting comment but not strictly accurate.
The accused was over 21,had committed a common law crime and had never been to prison before so the judge could have given him a fine.A suspended sentence.A community order.
In some cases a person convicted of one or two instances of assault wont be imprisoned.The third offence means there is every possibility of a custodial sentence.
The judge recognised the gravity of the crime and he was sentenced to imprisonment.
The video was used in evidence and as such is then in the public domain.
The female officer who reported the matter was praised by the judge and commended by her chief constable.
A clear case of a person sworn to uphold the law and breaking it being dealt with without any bias being shown by the Judiciary.
Melody
Thank you Jupiter, I never knew that a police officer had the right to retaliate or reciprocate. Maybe my understanding of both words are incorrect. Retaliate to me would be to hit back in the same manner, give like for like, and reciprocate would mean to give in return. I assumed that the police would immediately use restraining methods rather than either of the above.
Jupiter
Hi Melody,
If I can perhaps explain differently.Any person has the right to defend him/herself.
This is a basic tenet.On the Police point of view.

Take an example of an officer being attacked by an aggressive individual.The officer is kicked,punched and all the rest of the abuse.Now the officers main concern at this point is self preservation and secondly ensuring that his attacker is arrested.To achieve these aims the officer may have to trade blows with the assailant or perhaps give him a good kick in a sensitive spot before he can be restrained and arrested.
This is whats known as using reasonable force.
Reasonable force is not defined you may be surprised to know.
Each case is decided by a Judge in open court.
Excessive force as the name implies is when the circumstances of the attack change and the attacker then becomes victim,if he has been overpowered,subdued and presents no further threat but violence is still visited upon him.

I hope this helps to clarify any misunderstanding,Melody.


Tommy Kennedy
Im also surprised at your comment about bullying DI.As anyone with the slightest knowledge at all of the workings of the police would know recruits and DIs have very little contact

My reference re- bullying D.I.s, Jupiter refered to the thugs army career...... That army recruits experience some bullying from D.Is - Drill instructers.

So, it was a woman who reported the thug - and the judge praised her, sadly he did not condemm his felow officers behind the desk for not protecting the terrified woman.

Of course the judge had no alternative than to jail him - Knowing there would be a a public out cry - as the world had seen the video - if he hadn't.

I suppose you would say the cop who assaulted the guy - causing his death - at the recent demonstration, London, had a 'Moment of madness' - no cop came forward to report him. It was an American tourist
Jupiter
Not knowing any army parlance I assumed the recruits you referred to were Police recruits.
The judge you refer to was in fact a she and the other officers present at the time and who gave evidence are subject to an internal enquiry which may well lead to further charges.
As I say the judge had other methods of disposal, prison for a first offender on an assault charge is not always used but on this occasion the assault was aggravated because of the accuseds position and that is the reason a custodial sentence was imposed.A judge will pass sentence on the basis of evidence nothing else but as you have shown so much background knowledge of this case you might wish to enlighten us on the judges sentencing decision.
And Tommy,do me a favour:Dont make any assumptions about what I might say.
Ref the man who was allegedly assaulted,and please correct me if Ian wrong,is it not the case that the cause of his death has not been established?
Joop
Jupiter
Re my previous post,Mr Ian Tomlinsons tragic death was fully investigated and my understanding is that there were three or four post mortem examinatons carried out with fundamental differences of opinions given by the pathologists thus making the prospect of any criminal case unrealistic.
Joop
Tommy Kennedy
NO, his death was NOT fully investigated as the evidence of 'assault' was there for his superiors to see - the video - and he should have been arrested at once as any civvie would have been with such evidence available. As an ex service man I recognised, on seeing the video that the cop carried out a 'Military charge' on the guy that service men are trained in, not just a push - and possibly cops for such demonstrations.
It was said that as a time frame of 6 months had past the cop couldn't be charged with assault

I think what is more frightening about the case was so many other cops NOT restraining the thug cop - then of course no comment from you about the cops that did nothing to restrain the thug cop assaulting the woman.
Jupiter
The INDEPENDANT POLICE COMPLAINTS COMMISSION investigated the matter and passed its findings to the CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE who concluded that there was no realistic prospect of a conviction on available evidence.
According to some quarters, also known as barrack room lawyers it wasnt investigated.What is the foregoing if not a thorough investigation?
Tommy if I may respectfully suggest, have a look at the Guardian 22.07.10 and the statement by Keir Starmer QC,Director ofPublic Prosecutions.It is a very interesting article and may go some way to enlighten you.
Joop.
Tommy Kennedy
The fact is THERE a policeman assaulted a man who had his back to him and his hands in his pockets and was NOT charged or condemned by his fellow officers or you

Cover up!
auldbutcher
Ach i had a few bouts wie glesga's finest in my time and never complained difference was i was a fit young man who could haunle himsel, whit i seen o this thug was the complete an utter disregard fer this womens safety,and the utter contempt fer his fellow officers who must hae seen him carry oot the said assault, any wan who think this was a wan aff by this creep must believe in fairies .

Wonder if there might be more people mibbies bring cases agin him and i also wonder what kind o life his wife had wie this scumbag.

The sentence this cur received was a bluddy joke, hope this lady sues the Force of which he was a member and also brings oot claims fer damages agin him tae.
Jupiter
Tommy you say there was an assault so there must have been an assault.Wheres the evidence?The fact remains, despite your assertion of a cover up,the incident was fully investigated and I wont repeat the findings.As you may know in the case where a person dies the Crown becomes the complainer and in this instance the Crown didnt have evidence of any crime.
Maybe you could enlighten us about the cover up and tell us exactly what it is.
I have persistently condemned malpractice in the police,however as there is no evidence here to suggest Mr Tomlinson died from malpractice the need to make any comment is not relevant.
Call me old fashioned but Im one of those people who believe that a person is innocent until proved guilty.The legal system may not be perfect but it is all that we have got.
Joop
wombat
Call me old fashioned but Im one of those people who believe that a person is innocent until proved guilty.

rolleyes.gif or until proven irish, right ? laugh.gif
Tommy Kennedy
Wheres the evidence? - you ask, Jupiter
The video the American tourist took and was shown to the whole world

Here is the evidence - plus many witnesses came forward and gave statements
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/v...-police-assault
I say again, even with such overwhelming evidence the cop was NOT charged
wombat
tommy wrote:I say again, even with such overwhelming evidence the cop was NOT charged

wink.gif nuthin new there then?
Jupiter
Morning Tommy,I see you took up my suggestion and had a look at the Guardian, just a shame you couldnt manage to separate the wheat from the chaff.
There may well be images of the man falling but there is no conclusive evidence on the cause of his death and that is why there were no charges.You will be aware of the phrase"proven beyond all reasonable doubt".It couldnt be done in this case.
I woke up this morning came on here eagerly and hoping to see all the evidence of the COVER UP but here I am reading the same old same old.
But Im persistant and Im sure you have the inside story and will tell us all about the COVER UP soon.
Joop.
Jupiter
Morning Wombat,
Im a bit puzzled by the content of your last two posts and wouldnt mind some enlightenment.
Cheers
Joop.
Tommy Kennedy
I suppose the way you viewed the video, Jupiter, is that the man stumbled and the nice concerned cop rushed forward to try and catch him rolleyes.gif
Tommy Kennedy
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 9th Sep 2010, 09:16am) *
Morning Wombat,
Im a bit puzzled by the content of your last two posts and wouldnt mind some enlightenment.
Cheers
Joop.

The guy's finding it difficult to understand why anyone would think the cop in the video is assaulting the poor guy, Wombat - don't confuse him any further tongue.gif
benny
QUOTE (Jupiter @ 9th Sep 2010, 08:57am) *
Morning Tommy,I see you took up my suggestion and had a look at the Guardian, just a shame you couldnt manage to separate the wheat from the chaff.
There may well be images of the man falling but there is no conclusive evidence on the cause of his death and that is why there were no charges.You will be aware of the phrase"proven beyond all reasonable doubt".It couldnt be done in this case. . . . .


It' a real shame fur the polis, they're always bein accused of things that the Crown Prosecution Service cannae prove. Look at that Brazilian guy that wis shot in the London Underground, an nae polis wis charged. Must've been because there wis nae connection between him dying an gettin umpteen polis bullets fired point blank intae his heid, eh?
Tommy Kennedy
They can't catch real baddies like that Wombat, Benny, even when I've posted pics of his hideout in the 'outback' tongue.gif
Angela Chick
QUOTE (benny @ 9th Sep 2010, 10:10am) *
It' a real shame fur the polis, they're always bein accused of things that the Crown Prosecution Service cannae prove. Look at that Brazilian guy that wis shot in the London Underground, an nae polis wis charged. Must've been because there wis nae connection between him dying an gettin umpteen polis bullets fired point blank intae his heid, eh?



Well said Benny, Necessary evil? Legalised thugs? take your pick.


wombat
It' a real shame fur the polis, they're always bein accused of things that the Crown Prosecution Service cannae prove. Look at that Brazilian guy that wis shot in the London Underground, an nae polis wis charged.

hi benny! ah remember that incident,brazilian guy wis an electrician gauin tae wurk
runnin fer the train 7 bullets in the napper cos he looked "middle easternish an wis kerryin a backpack "wis he ridin a camel urr what?
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