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Lennox
I know that I don't live in the UK and I am not as up to date as I should be on the politics of the country or who is who these days , That said I almost chocked to death on my coffee this morning when this flashed across my screen ( See the link) Tony Blair is to get the US Peace Prize

I am stunned, and I bet I won't be the only one. Any one thinks he should have been awarded this ?


http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/brits...edal%2F19538153
bilbo.s
Dubyah must be in the running for the Nobel!
Melody
The older I get the more out of step with the world I become. Dae ye mind when things were either right or wrong, true or false? Noo there's aw sorts of alternatives. In fact ye begin tae doubt yer ain sanity. laugh.gif
Lennox
QUOTE (Melody @ 2nd Jul 2010, 02:14pm) *
In fact ye begin tae doubt yer ain sanity. laugh.gif




See, so its no just me , phew biggrin.gif
Melody
Could be that both of us have lost it Lennox nothing would surprise me....... but ah doubt it. laugh.gif
Lennox
Melody , that could be but if it is you & me who have lost it wit does that say for the rest of them on here biggrin.gif
bilbo.s
Ta muchly! biggrin.gif
wee davy
I'm a great believer in whoever gets the gong, always accepts an accolade for those who actually made things happen. There is no doubt he presided over, and facilitated the ongoing peace process in Northern Ireland.
The benefits of a relative 10 years of calm is perfectly evident if you want to visit Belfast, and the outlying areas. The wounds are slowly but surely healing, and will take at least another generation or two, to eradicate themselves, but the world is a better place for it.

The rest of Europe couldn't deal with Kosovo without the UK's firm resolve to get to grips with it. Something else his administration can rightly take credit for. He also dealt with the 'fallout' from it.

The fact weapons of mass destruction, or the capability were never physically located, I maintain was as much down to there being an awful lot of desert to hide it in - as anything. It was and still is hard for anybody to believe that Saadam Hussein (who often gets forgotten about this when it comes to discussing Tony Blair) was not actively pursuing such. It was, on the face of it, & could be seen as a wrong call - but it would be unthinkable for the UK to turn their noses up, when the US asks us for support. The fact is we would not all be expressing our opinions, so freely, if it was/were not for US interventions 70 yrs ago. (Lets not forget what sparked 'Iraq Part II').

The fact that, as a 'normal' citizen, he even attempts to broker peace in the Middle East, has got to be seen as worthy. We see much talk, on these very boards, about how the WORLD abhors the Israeli handling of the situation - which is not 'unlike' the troubles in Northern Ireland.

It is for these reasons, (which Bill Clinton made some reference to, in the citation) I think he will be accepting such an honour, on behalf of ALL the people - but essentially, the Soldiers, Sailors & Airmen, of the United Kingdom, who have given, and give their lives to endeavours of peace. For lets not forget, the fight for peace must and will, continue.

wee davy (just a humble 'player')

(now i await the sandstorm! lol unsure.gif )
ashfield
I think that's a balanced account Davy, you can also add Sierra Leone to N Ireland and Kosovo.
TeeHeeHee
It's easy to slag Blair, and he made it easier for all by appearing to be such a Dubya poodle, but Saddam bathed in the light of the idea that the world (and especially Iran) thought he had WMDs.
He looked dangerous, he acted dangerous and he was dangerous.
The old motto, "When in danger, when in doubt, sort the biggest basturd out", seemed to me, too, to be the logical consequence of Sadam's posturing.

Any one who played a hand, including all those women who put themselves in the firin' line, in bringing peace to Northern Ireland deserve every accolade which they receive.
bilbo.s
I´m thinking somebody has changed the hymn sheet here, but I don´t think there is one containing " For he´s a Jolly Good Fellow". Puke! mad.gif
TeeHeeHee
laugh.gif Ach Bilbo, The moving finger writes ... and having written moves on laugh.gif
bilbo.s
Oh good! laugh.gif
Melody
laugh.gif laugh.gif
Lennox
laugh.gif
big al
QUOTE (Melody @ 2nd Jul 2010, 02:14pm) *
The older I get the more out of step with the world I become. Dae ye mind when things were either right or wrong, true or false? Noo there's aw sorts of alternatives. In fact ye begin tae doubt yer ain sanity. laugh.gif


Remember the famous Blair "Third Way" - now you see it Melody - you can lie, cheat, pull the wool over people's eyes and call it the third way and it gets accepted - the moving finger does write and move on - often in mysterious ways.

I still believe that there will be a bullet for him someday - from someone, somewhere for some part of his doings over time.....

Maybe the Americans should get him drafted in to sort out the BP situation !
benny
Aye, Tony did a grand job in Northern Ireland and the Balkans so we should just forget about Iraq and Afghanistan. Mebbe we should put Hitler forward for a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize as well - after all he solved the problem of persecution of ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia and other non-German states. OK, so he got a few hundred million people killed and he was a devious, conniving liar, but so what - naebody's perfect.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (big al @ 2nd Jul 2010, 07:38pm) *
Maybe the Americans should get him drafted in to sort out the BP situation !

His name has already been suggested as new BP Chairman, Al.
Melody
Aw thank the lord for some sane clear thinking folk. It's that Third Way that confuses me Al, I was brought up to be honest like most working class folk. If something stinks then it stinks it's not all of a sudden quite fragrant.
bilbo.s
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 2nd Jul 2010, 10:40pm) *
His name has already been suggested as new BP Chairman, Al.



Mibbes Heather can put a word in for him wi Benny boy. Fink there's aready a St Anthony though. laugh.gif
wee davy
QUOTE (Melody @ 2nd Jul 2010, 08:41pm) *
Aw thank the lord for some sane clear thinking folk. It's that Third Way that confuses me Al, I was brought up to be honest like most working class folk. If something stinks then it stinks it's not all of a sudden quite fragrant.


Credit where credit is due, is hardly the work of unclear 'insane' thinking, Melody. And honesty is not the sole priveledge of 'badge wearing', fully paid up, and upright 'working class folk'.
Finally, I find Channel No 5 quite revolting - but the smell of a good scotch broth, ecstatic. One person's odour - is another's perfume! If something looks or smells bad, therefore it must be bad?
I question your logic - but not your sanity.

Thank the Lord we are all individuals in our own right - not belonging to sanctimonious irrational & quite frankly, ludicrous stereotypes. Like you choose to belong to the 'honest like most working class folk' bracket - I would associate myself with the questioning, reasoned debate, and fairness, fraternity. By the way, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th Class values went out the door, post WWII.
There's still a 'first class' I will grant you - but even our politician's are being forced to consider a less obvious 'class divide'. (Slowly but surely).

Your (b & w) view of the world, is what is the cause of division, conflict and strife.
Being able to appreciate your neighbours point of view, is critical in my view, to living in harmony.
wee davy
QUOTE (benny @ 2nd Jul 2010, 08:00pm) *
Aye, Tony did a grand job in Northern Ireland and the Balkans so we should just forget about Iraq and Afghanistan.


Are you seriously suggesting the conflicts which are Iraq & Afghanistan are down to our former Prime Minister? Do Iraq (and especially the Taliban/Al Quieda faction in Afghanistan & Pakistan), not have to accept the lion's share of responsibility, for their LACK of responsibility in the past?

In the harboring of fundamentalist factions, they have brought a terrible blight across the world. We live in fear of the next organised terror attack - whenever, and wherever it may happen - you all lose sight of WHY WE ARE INVOLVED, and why we do not shirk our responsibilities
Lennox
Thanks to you all who took the time to post here, but PLEASE don't start turning this into a slaging match I just asked if you think he deserved to get the prize, I am not the most political savy person on here, and I am sure am not the only one, but from what I have seen and read, Blair was not the best PM that Britan has had since I left the UK 26 years ago, Just like Obama , is not the best for us now. But we have to deal with it !

Again don't make personal attacks in this topic please, I don't make these kind of topics very often and for good reason, I would like to make one quote from big al,

QUOTE
I still believe that there will be a bullet for him someday - from someone, somewhere for some part of his doings over time.....


The thing there, is I also think that someplace down the line is pal George W, Bush, has one with his name on it also . for his actions mad.gif
bilbo.s
QUOTE (wee davy @ 3rd Jul 2010, 01:56pm) *
Are you seriously suggesting the conflicts which are Iraq & Afghanistan are down to our former Prime Minister?



Bit of a tirade there, Davy. Methinks all some members are "seriously suggesting" is that Tony Blair is an unscrupulous, devious, mendacious , self-serving toerag.

Maybe you can try to appreciate their point of view. I certainly can. smile.gif

Quite right, Lennox!
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (Lennox @ 3rd Jul 2010, 12:19pm) *
QUOTE
Thanks to you all who took the time to post here, but PLEASE don't start turning this into a slaging match

Can we carry on if we use slightly weighted pillows biggrin.gif



QUOTE
The thing there, is I also think that someplace down the line is pal George W, Bush, has one with his name on it also . for his actions

He should have gone huntin' wi' his big mate Dick Cheney.


Don't worry Lennox, the heavyweights have left the boards ... but the referee is still in the ring biggrin.gif
bilbo.s
Dunno. Mibbes Gina/Murn/ whitsisface have gone in for a bit mair reincarnation. The undead are among us. rolleyes.gif
wee davy
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 3rd Jul 2010, 12:23pm) *
Bit of a tirade there, Davy. Methinks all some members are "seriously suggesting" is that Tony Blair is an unscrupulous, devious, mendacious , self-serving toerag.

Maybe you can try to appreciate their point of view. I certainly can. smile.gif

Quite right, Lennox!


I bear no malice towards anyone's particular point of view - or indeed their rights to express it - but I also still reserve the right to disagree with the commonly held 'popular belief' which tends to be perpetuated.

Yes, I will admit to losing my rag a bit. Not with any individual member - I'm just totally fed up wi' Tony Blair always taking the 'rap' for everything thats gone wrong in the past 10/12 years, in this country of mine, often from people misinformed and having no perception of what it must be like to make decisions involving other people's lives.

The UK has spent millions of pounds in recent times, trying to prove there was some sort of crime committed. The result? Nothing. The legal fraternity are laughing all the way to the bank, what wie 'this' inquiry, and 'that' inquiry. Whilst were about it, why don't we blame him for the Bloody Sunday events?
Were always beating ourselves up over something.
Whatever happened to the 40's unflinching support & respect we showed for those who were tasked with the difficult decisions of sacrificing life for the sake of the common good? Rightly or wrongly they MADE A DECISION.

Like I say - I do not wish to 'slag any one person off'. I'd just like to give the public at large, one helluva shake! (It's clear I'm the only sane one around here, isn't it? lol laugh.gif )

PS I'll also admit I never ever thought I'd be sticking up for 'my mate Tony'! haha
glasgow lass
Awk jist luv it davy,,,,,,,,,,, an' did he no turn tongue.gif .
wee davy
QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 3rd Jul 2010, 03:50pm) *
Awk jist luv it davy,,,,,,,,,,, an' did he no turn tongue.gif .


Aye, Lass. wink.gif
bilbo.s
What´s that I hear you say ? Let´s have more support and respect for politicians? OMG!! laugh.gif

Don´t you think respect should be earned, rather than handed out willy-nilly to anyone who happens to be in power, in any field?
bilbo.s
QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 3rd Jul 2010, 05:50pm) *
Awk jist luv it davy,,,,,,,,,,, an' did he no turn tongue.gif .



Aye, like mulk ye mean! tongue.gif
wee davy
where's yer human kindness, bilbo? left it oan the bus again, huv we? smile.gif you watch that team ai' urs go oot oan penalties, later oan! tongue.gif
bilbo.s
A prophet noo ur ye? Has god been speakin tae ye direct or were ye telt whit tae think? tongue.gif

A´ll no huvtae bother watchin noo - save ma hypertension. Thanks fur that! biggrin.gif
wee davy
am afraid nane ai ma prophecies huv come tae fruition, bilbo - every single wan ai them, (up tae noo) has landed oan rocky groond. mibbe a should ring my pal, tony lol laugh.gif

a used tae be quite good at the old predicting footie results - bit this world cup has had me beat, awe ends up!!!

even andy piggin murray huz let me doon (again!)
bilbo.s
Ye´re Scottish, man. Ye must be used tae it by noo

Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall not be disappointed. ...Well I still manage it! . sad.gif
Melody
Maybe since Wee Davy was not 'slaggin off' any individual member he may like to apologise to me.

I won't hold my breath though. laugh.gif
.
bilbo.s
QUOTE (Melody @ 3rd Jul 2010, 08:31pm) *
Maybe since Wee Davy was not 'slaggin off' any individual member he may like to apologise to me.

I won't hold my breath though. laugh.gif
.



The Melody Lingers On, eh hen? smile.gif
Melody
Sometime, someplace thanks Bilbos ah live in hope and therefor will never die in despair. laugh.gif
bilbo.s
Perish the thought, doll. cool.gif
Melody
laugh.gif
wee davy
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 3rd Jul 2010, 06:36pm) *
The Melody Lingers On, eh hen?


If I offended you in any way, Melody, then I apologise for making you the butt of my frustration.

smile.gif wacko.gif

I still reserve the right to be the only sane one here!
Melody
Thank you Wee Davy, your right is reserved. laugh.gif
bilbo.s
Napoleon the Umpteenth, I assume. tongue.gif

Melody, Don´t let him aff wi that - demand roses!
Melody
laugh.gif Bilbos, 'All the world is weird excepting you and me and even thee is a little weird'. laugh.gif Mind that yin.
bilbo.s
No wan fur half measures - a´m totally weird! wub.gif
Melody
Aw don't be tellin' me that noo. laugh.gif
benny
QUOTE (wee davy @ 3rd Jul 2010, 12:56pm) *
Are you seriously suggesting the conflicts which are Iraq & Afghanistan are down to our former Prime Minister? Do Iraq (and especially the Taliban/Al Quieda faction in Afghanistan & Pakistan), not have to accept the lion's share of responsibility, for their LACK of responsibility in the past?

In the harboring of fundamentalist factions, they have brought a terrible blight across the world. We live in fear of the next organised terror attack - whenever, and wherever it may happen - you all lose sight of WHY WE ARE INVOLVED, and why we do not shirk our responsibilities



No, I am seriously suggesting that Tony Blair, against world opinion, and even against the original advice of his own chief law officer, took his country - our country - into a needless war which has resulted in the deaths of many thousands. It has been well established that Sadaam Hussein had no links whatsoever with Al-Quaeda - despotic megalomaniac though he may have been (that's Sadaam, no Tony, by the way).

From Wikipedia on who was responsible for the events of 9/11 - the tinder which sparked the war in Iraq:

. . . .In September 2003, President Bush told the press, "we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th.". . .

. . .The 9/11 Commission Report stated that there is "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq collaborated with the al-Qaeda terrorist network on any attacks on the United States. In September 2006, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence concluded that "there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein had prewar ties to al-Qaeda and one of the terror organization’s most notorious members, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" and that there was no evidence of any Iraqi support of al-Qaeda or foreknowledge of the September 11th attacks.


So, the Al-Quaeda connection with Iraq is as mythical as the Weapons of Mass Destruction claim. Blair is a liar and a hypocrite of the first order. The reasons given for WHY WE ARE INVOLVED are a load of ballocks.

wee davy
I repeat

QUOTE
Are you seriously suggesting the conflicts which are Iraq & Afghanistan are down to our former Prime Minister? Do Iraq (and especially the Taliban/Al Quieda faction in Afghanistan & Pakistan), not have to accept the lion's share of responsibility, for their LACK of responsibility in the past?


Please read my deposition carefully, benny.
You went to great pains to avoid answering my question, directly.

I took care to limit my thoughts regards the Taliban/Al Quieda connection geographically. I will ask you again - do you really blame Mr Blair for whats going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan? If so, what EVIDENCE and what basis do you have for accusing him of such a thing? Would you say THAT part of the region should have been 'left alone'? To 'peacefully' go about their business of planning Death & Destruction, THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. You and I both know when it comes to having the resolution to DO something for the common good - it so often responds either late, or not at all. (The United Nations).

My reference to Iraq goes back PRE 9/11. I have personally never once suggested they had any direct involvement with the situation in Afghanistan. Iraq's irresponsibility as a country goes back MUCH further, through supporting 'the mother of all middle eastern meglomaniacs'. If you favour the Devil,... dont be surprised when you get burnt. There was no 'may have been' about it btw. I have always maintained Iraq was simply 'a job not done' which would have still festered away.
Or do you contend we should have just left things 'as was'?

As for Weapons of Mass Destruction - I take it you do KNOW all the different forms these take?
Their not always big pointy things, without a guidance system - they could be fairly insignificant even mundane materials, that when mixed together, cause MASS debilitation and death. We may well be talking here about technically fairly SMALL quantities. Like I said before - we talking about a helluva lot of SAND to BURY stuff in. NEEDLE and HAYSTACK come to mind. Nothing was found, ready assembled, that's all. IT DIDN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY.
HE USED CHEMICAL ON HIS OWN PEOPLE BENNY!! BIO MUST HAVE BEEN HIS NEXT 'DREAM'.

So, ... I come back to the situation today - as in right now.
Whether any of us like it or not, we have our young people, once again, both sides of the ogin, fighting a war. For their sake, we ought to be showing our solidarity - our unbending resolve, to support them - no matter what. There is no 'whites of the eyes' any more - with regards to foes and enemies. At least those involved in the two great wars generally knew who their opponent was
- our guys seldom do.

My reason's given are not a load of bollocks. What people might SAY/REPORT were the reasons, I cannot agree with. There's only one reason which concerns me:
That is the security and relative safety of our nearest and dearest, for them to go about business without having to worry about some young dickheads, turning themselves and thousands of other innocent people, into human confetti! To do NOTHING just isn't an option - believe me. Or Neville Chamberlain is mibbes whit we need??

Whatever deceipt, or hypocracy Blair is guilty of, he will have to surely answer for - as we will ALL!

I just don't buy the populist, media led, quasi intellectual hype - his record speaks for itself on the main principles of taking action on behalf of our nations best interests. Show me a statesman who was never a stranger to the truth from time to time, or was guilty of some indiscretional hypocracy
- and I will show you a man bereft of all courage, and any true sense of duty, or accountability.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE (wee davy @ 4th Jul 2010, 12:40am) *
There is no 'whites of the eyes' any more - with regards to foes

Just a wee, tiny, little point of correction there davy ... there never was
a "Wait till you see the whites of their eyes" command.
This was, I believe at Bunker Hill, when, with regard to the approaching British soldiers who wore white crossed straps with their uniform, the defending militia had been ordered to "wait till you see the whites on the rise *", before firing.
(* the ridge)
( A bit like "Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance". rolleyes.gif )
wee davy
thank you THEE - a very timely and apt correction if i might say so!
(it was 3s 6d wasn't it? laugh.gif )
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