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Patter Merchant
Reading the findings of the report into the abuse of children at Catholic-run churches in Ireland I am dumbfounded at how men and women of God could have done this to children.

Did the 'carers' really think they were helping buid better future members of society?

The main findings were:-

QUOTE
  • Physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of the institutions.
  • Sexual abuse occurred in many of them, particularly boys' institutions.
  • Schools were run in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff.
  • Children were frequently hungry and food was inadequate, inedible and badly prepared in many schools.
  • Many witnesses spoke of being constantly fearful or terrified, which impeded their emotional development and impacted on every aspect of their life in the institution.
  • Prolonged, excessive beatings with implements intended to cause maximum pain occurred with the knowledge of senior staff.
  • There was constant criticism and verbal abuse and children were told they were worthless.
  • Some children lost their sense of identity and kinship, which was never recovered.
  • Absconders were severely beaten, at times publicly. Some had their heads shaved and were humiliated.
  • Inspectors, on their occasional visits, rarely spoke to the children in the institutions.
petalpeeps
It is a disgrace that this should happen in any home , but people i think, expected better treatment of children in church run homes ,due to the fact these people were meant to be compassionate and loving.I know of children who had similar treatment by their own parents growing up in the 60's 70's . I sometimes wonder where the social services were in these cases . To some extent ,i am glad that the old 'children should be seen and not heard ' attitude is no longer used , and at other times not so glad . My kids could complain for Britain laugh.gif
Heather
This was disgusting treatment of children and yes Petal, we should expect more and better from those in the Religious life.

My husband and I were talking about it today and he cannot believe no one is to be charged. There will be some of them still alive, including the Inspectors of these Home's who turned a blind eye to what was going on. They may not have known the whole story, but surely they must have noticed something was not right.

I noticed the Sisters of Mercy were mentioned which interested me as I was taught from infant school by them and never had any bother. In fact my Confirmation name is after one of the Sisters, my favourite.
One of them was very strict but didn't hit anyone. I did not have her as a Teacher, but my older sister did.
Southside jim
They should be sent to jail !!!!!!!!

How anyone can be let free is beyond me. Because if it was an ordinary member of the public they would be on the sex offenders register and sent to jail.

BUT, The way they are allowed to do as they please in jail and the way they are protected from the oridinary convicts is shocking !!!!!

Let them be housed in the same wing as the murders, drug-dealers and gangsters...and let them suffer at the hands of the them.

But No, they will get comfy cells with anything they want as it is classed as an illness.

Total white wash, and no justice for the victims. Sums this country up !!!!!!!!
bob121062

The ordinary punter on the street has known for decades what was happening at the hands of these priests.
Even at my primary school kids would slag thier catholic friends with jokes of what the priest had done to them.... SADLY IT REALLY WAS NOT A JOKE. But if young kids were aware of these "rumours" why has it taken so long to do anything about it......I dont even know if there has or will be anything done about it.
Before we say much more it must be pointed out that there are paedophiles ALL OVER THE PLACE and not just in the catholic church.
But there obviously is or was a problem if for all these years there was rumour after rumour and in some cases it was even known about by the 'big wigs' in the catholic church who removed the perpetrator to another area where, I assume, he just carried on abusing.
I think if the catholic church wants to come out of this whole sorry mess that they must start handing over these perverts to the POLICE !!!
No messing about with red tape - JUST HAND THEM OVER !!!!

And the same goes for the church of Scotland, the army, the boys scouts and any other organisations where a paedophile has a case to answer....... NO MORE COVER UPS - JAIL THEM ALL !!!


These are sick people and I dont have a suitable answer for them but CHILDREN MUST BE PROTECTED AT ANY COST !!!!

Bob
glasgow lass
Parents should be more on the ball regarding all of this. Its been going on for yrs, so whats so shocking today, nothing has changed. There will always be child predetors whether is aunty,uncle Charlie or some pervert who calles himself a priest.
TeeHeeHee
I think Celibacy, brought into being I believe around 1200 a.d. should be dropped like the hot iron that it is.
A lot of unmarried men in frocks, and with half the power of God, can't be a safe environment for young boys.
Mhoira
These people are Vile scum of the earth dont matter what they are priests and many other walks of life they all need to pay for what they have done and it is also a sad reallity of life it is not all men who commit this abuse . There are also people who protect them and ignore what they are doing are just as bad as the scum who commit these acts on the innocent.
angel
I don,t think celibacy is the problem, there are also married men/women who commit these sex crimes against innocent children.
bob121062
Angel,
Celibacy might be te problem in the catholic church and that is what this thread is about, IRISH CHURCH CHILD ABUSE SCANDAL..........


but you are right when you say its not just single men who perpetrate this terrible crime.
Its so very sad and BAD that the RC church even covered it up and moved priests from one parish to another.

Like I said i another post.................. GET THE POLICE !!!! Why shouldn't these evil nasty men get away with this crime. The evil nazis from the 2nd world war are still being hunted so why not these priests ?
angel
Bob the way in which the catholic church has dealt with child abuse whether it be sexual or otherwise in the past is in its self criminal to my mind, However I do not believe that celibacy is the cause of paedophilia
whithin the church, one is either pedophilic or not , so how to stop these abominations against young children before it starts, who can tell if this candidate for the priest hood is not a paedophile, I would,nt know? would you?, that being said ,I do think that priests should be allowed to marry if they wish However this will not stop the abuse against children we can only hope that these peverts are caught and exposed.
ps... I understand that there are paedophiles who in actual fact practice celebacy who are not priests.
glasgow lass
very well said angel.
bob121062
Are we all missing the point that this evil crime is actually A BLOODY CRIME !!!! GET THE POLIS !!!!!

WHY CANT THE POLICE GET THE NAMES AND THE DETAILS OF THE PERPETRATORS OF THIS CRIME IN THE IRSH CHURCHES?

Why are priests ( or anybody else) gettin away with it?
Is it ok for these vile people because they pretend to be a man of the cloth? I am honestly completely bamboozled as to why these people DONT GET CHAREGED WITH CHILD RAPE !!!! And, another thing, too many ordinary decent people turn away from this evil crime when they hear about it rather than DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Surely the ordinary folk in Ireland should be writing to thier police deparments and thier politicians or even the POPE to complain and have something done !!!!!




Why ?

somebody tell me.... why ?
Catherine
I have no idea either Bob.
I do think however, the fact that people are willing to talk about it now and bring it out into the open, can only help the future Generations.

This obscenity has been going on since the Dinasaur ages, all through History within the Church and outside it.

Name them , shame them, then throw away the key and let them rot....and give the Victims all the support in the World and no the other way around.

Just my opinion.
Lennox
QUOTE (Catherine @ 24th May 2009, 02:17pm) *
Name them , shame them, then throw away the key and let them rot....and give the Victims all the support in the World and no the other way around.

Just my opinion.



No Just your opinion on this Catherine I think a lot of think the same there.
TeeHeeHee
I 'll keep this as short as I can:
My oldest daughter just escaped a guys clutches when she was 12. I had to be severely restrained. Although he had only gotten as far as a "fondle" before she broke away he was to be charged with enticement of a minor and indecent assault on a minor.
Police guaranteed he'd "do a three stretch in the big house"...own words. We agreed to attend court and daughter and her wee mate would appear as witness.
Ages later my sister-in-law shows me an item in the newspaper.
Case was over and done with and we hadn't been informed.
His shop was on my normal route to work. I was forbidden, by law, to use this route in future because he felt intimidated.
Within six month he moved, with his family, to Sheffield.

The guy had grandchildren who were in the flat above the shop at the time he was trying to interfere with other peoples children. He was known to be worth watching by the police.

What happened there ?

Where the Law ?

Where the protection ?

Send him out of town to start fresh somewhere else ?

Heh, Where the Shame ?
Isobel
I think we are all in agreement here. Crime by anyone has to be punished, no matter what type of position you hold. However my question would have to be, why has it taken so long for all these people to step forward? It was the same here in Canada with the native Indian children. Many were taken from their homes to be raised as civilized people and also to get a better education on the white mans ways. Many of them were abused by various churches including the Catholic Church. However after the first court case a number of years ago where there was a monitory settlement all of a sudden many more appeared looking for a cash payout. Talk about jumping on the bandwagon.
My friend’s mother was taken off the reservation with many of the children of school age and was clothed, fed, and given a good education, for which she is most grateful. So we must not forget the good clergy and there were lots of them who only wanted what’s best for these children.
YES PUNISH THE BAD BUT DON'T TAR THEM ALL AS BEING THE SAME, ITS JUST NOT FAIR.

TEE HEE HEE .I can relate to your post.I wrote on another post a long time ago about a friend of mine. Her little ten-year-old girl was rapped and when the two boys were caught because they were minors they virtually got away with a slap on the wrist. Annie’s husband saw them one night hanging about a close and he ran after them got one and knocked him about a bit. This I might add was a very quiet man who would under normal circumstances not hurt a fly. But put yourself in his shoes for a moment, what man would not stand up for his little girl. Well need I say, he was charged and ended up with an assault record? Now where is the justice there? This incident was in Barlanark in Glasgow.
aquamarinesea
It's a shame to know that members of the Catholic church do not self-actualize what they have been preaching us. I know they are not perfect being, but the way they treat children in an orphan is not forgivable. I also agree that it has nothing to do with celibacy. If there are people with malicious intent or unpleasant desires, then we can't assume that priests are doing what they aren't suppose to be doing.
TeeHeeHee
It now seems that the Irish Church scandal has bore seed in the form of pending bankcruptcy and falling attendances as a result of the hugh sums being paid out in compensation to the child abuse victims of latter years.

QUOTE
Two years ago a damning report into clerical sex abuse found that the diocese had covered up the activities of 46 priests accused of abusing children.

It found the church placed its own reputation above the protection of children in its care.

It also said state authorities including the Garda Síochána facilitated the cover-up by allowing the Catholic church to operate outside the law.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/1...urch-bankruptcy
Mathieson
Incidentally, what became of this situation (below)? At least there are signs that at long last the elected authorities in Ireland (or at least some of them) want something done about this scandalous situation. The mass cover up in other countries is apparently still going on.


Latest update: 25/07/2011 - Benedict XVI - Catholic Church - Ireland - religion - sex abuse - Vatican

Vatican recalls Ireland envoy after child abuse report
The Vatican said Monday it will recall its envoy to Ireland after the publication of a damning report on the Catholic Church's handling of sex abuse by priests. The Irish government has expressed outrage over the Church’s culture of "dysfunction". By News Wires (text) AFP - The Vatican said Monday it was recalling its representative in Ireland following a damning report on the Catholic Church's handling of child abuse by priests that sparked government outrage.

"Apostolic Nuncio Giuseppe Leanza has been recalled for consultations" after the publication of the judicial report into abuses in an Irish diocese "and in particular due to the reactions to it," the Vatican said in a statement.

Irish Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore, who summoned Laenza to urgent talks earlier this month, said the recall was "a matter for the Holy See," but said Dublin was still awaiting the Vatican's response to the report.

The minister said in a statement that it was to be "expected that the Vatican would wish to consult in depth with the Nuncio on its response."

The publication of the report into more than a decade of sex abuse by priests in the diocese of Cloyne triggered a blistering attack on the Vatican by Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny that was widely hailed.

In language never before used by an Irish leader, an outraged Kenny told the parliament that the Church's inability to deal with the cases showed a culture of "dysfunction, disconnection, elitism and narcissism" at the Vatican.

Kenny, who became Taoiseach, or prime minister, after elections in February, slammed the Catholic Church's behaviour as "absolutely disgraceful."

The report condemned the Church's handling of abuse claims against 19 clerics in Cloyne in southern Ireland between 1996 and 2009, saying it was "inadequate and inappropriate".

The Vatican said last week that it would respond to the report at "an appropriate moment" and appealed for "objectivity".

On Monday, a Vatican official said there had been "some excessive reactions" which had surprised and disappointed the Holy See.

However, the official, who declined to be named, said the scale of the reaction justified the recall of the papal nuncio, and said this demonstrated "the wish of the Holy See to establish serious and effective cooperation".

Kenny returned to the theme of his parliament speech late Sunday when giving a lecture at a political summer school in County Donegal, receiving a standing ovation.

"The fact that I have had thousands of messages from around the world speaks for itself about the impact and the way people feel," he said.

The prime minister also said he had been surprised at the number of priests who supported his speaking out against the Vatican.

"The numbers of members of the clergy who have been in touch in the last few days, to say it is about time somebody spoke out about these matters in a situation like you are, has astounded me."

"I haven’t made any other comment except to say that we await the response from the Vatican."

Father Michael Collins, a Dublin priest and author of a book on pope John Paul II, said the meaning of the nuncio's recall was unclear.

"We don't know if he actually been recalled just for consultations or recalled, which means his appointment here is finished," he told RTE public radio.

Collins said he expected the Vatican to be taking Kenny's criticisms "very, very seriously".

"Suddenly to find the leader of the Irish government effectively saying in parliament, 'look, we don't like the way that you are interfering with the state of our country, that we are now the political elected members... and we feel that you are running a counter-culture which doesn't correspond with the job we have been given'."
FiddlerMig
I think the screening process for men that want to enter the priesthood is now much stricter, I don't know what the guidelines were in the past, but obviously it seems that the Church was infiltrated by perverts , who obviosly abused their positon, and have brought utter disgrace on the Catholic Church. I am glad that it has all come to a head and now the cancer can be cleaned out! I am Catholic and agree that the Church was inadequate at handling the problem internally,and should have handed these perpetrators over to civil authorities to deal with.
I think the problem is today for men entering the priesthood is that if they even have gay tendencies, they won't be admitted , then the Church will be accused of Homophobia! Seems like a no win situation for them if they have to be so politically correct. Being politically correct sometimes goes against the teaching of the Church.
TeeHeeHee
QUOTE
... Being politically correct sometimes goes against the teaching of the Church.

So too does handing perpetrators over to the civil authities.
*Fiddlermig*
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 29th Sep 2011, 10:53am) *
So too does handing perpetrators over to the civil authities.

Like I said, the Church has thier internal body of dealing with problems I think its like they go before a tribunal , a bit like a doctor or a nurse if they were found to be guilty of malpractice , I they would be suspended then have to go through a trubinal by their workplace.

The Church had their system of trying to deal with matters of professional misconduct , but this was so obviously inadequate and wrong. And as I am a catholic the whole thing sickens me as with all good catholics and priests. I think now with hindsight they jolly well know they should have booted the perverts out! Just means the problem would have been in the open a lot earlier and dealt with in the proper manner, and prevented so much misery. Shame it was kept behind closed doors for too long .
FiddlerMig
QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 29th Sep 2011, 10:53am) *
So too does handing perpetrators over to the civil authities.




Like mentioned, the Church has thier internal body of dealing with problems I think its like they go before a tribunal , a bit like a doctor or a nurse if they were found to be guilty of malpractice , they would be suspended then have to go before a trubinal by their workplace.

The Church had their system of trying to deal with matters of professional misconduct , but this was so obviously inadequate and wrong. And as I am a catholic the whole thing sickens me as with all good catholics and priests. I think now with hindsight the Church authorities jolly well know they should have booted the perverts out! Just means the problem would have been in the open a lot earlier and dealt with in the proper manner, and prevented so much misery. Shame it was kept behind closed doors for too long.

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