4th Apr 2009, 09:57pm
Hi Paul I have been reading various comments about Gallowglass names and have found it all very interesting. I was wondering if you could help me with the name McGregor possibly in Colraine could this be a gallowglass name as I believe they were Catholic. I also have another branch of my family named Slowey who came to Glasgow from Ireland c 1840 and settled in and around the Bridgegate for 60 years. I dont seem to be able to find anything on these names in Ireland and would be grateful for the help. Thanks
5th Apr 2009, 10:29am
I have never heard of McGregor being mentioned as a Gallowglass surname and I am sure all the McGregors in Ulster are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Planters.
I have had a quick look around to see what I could find about the McGregor surname in County Derry. According to the following website, McGregors were among the Scottish families given land in County Derry during the 17th century Scottish Protestant Plantations, particularly fertile land in east Derry around Coleraine and the River Bann.http://www.4crests.com/masuhi.html
Some of these Ulster McGregor families later migrated to the United States in the famous Ulster-Scots (Scots-Irish) (Scotch-Irish) migrations to North America of the 18th century. The Presbyterian Minister James McGregor of Aghadowey, south of Coleraine, in east Derry is quite a famous person in Ulster-Scottish history. As a youth he was present at the Siege of Derry in the late 17th century (1688) where he is said to have fired the gun which announced the arrival of the relief ships. In the early 18th century, he founded the town of Londonderry, New Hampshire in the United States.
You said you think your McGregor ancestors from Coleraine were Catholic. That could very well be the case probably as a result of a 'mixed' marriage somewhere back in your family line. ie a Protestant McGregor man marrying a Catholic Irish girl and raising his children as Catholics. Although mixed marriages were not that common in Ulster, they did happen occasionally (especially between Protestant men and Catholic women) as I have seen in my own family history in County Donegal and other peoples' family histories from Ulster.
I have mentioned the Slowey surname at the end of post #231 of the topic 'Common Irish Surnames In Scotland'. It is a native Gaelic Irish surname from County Monaghan.http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.ph...st&p=176558
Bridgegate - or the Briggait as it is more affectionately known by Glaswegians - was a famous Irish ghetto near the cente of Glasgow in the mid 19th century, especially around the time of the Irish Potato Famine of the 1840s.http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.ph...st&p=105954http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.ph...st&p=106169http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.ph...st&p=120398
5th Apr 2009, 12:19pm
Without any historical reference on my view, I find it strange that any MacGregors would be given land in Ulster in the 17th century since the name was proscribed at least once early in the century. One was by James the VI. in 1603. Although many changed their names to other clan names such as Greig, Black, Paterson etc. So I am surprised that some one named MacGregor would be given land by the "Crown", especially when the statute that repealed the proscription of the name wasn't until 1774. Then again I am not sure how long planting went on in Ulster. Interesting that history is never black and white.
5th Apr 2009, 04:59pm
I suspect the outlawing of the McGregor surname has rather been overplayed probably because of the story of Rob Roy MacGregor, a story which was greatly embellished in the novel by Sir Walter Scott.
The James McGregor I mentioned in my earlier post was born into a Scottish Presbyterian Planter family in Magilligan (a few miles to the west of Coleraine) in County Derry in 1677. He was educated in Glasgow (like many other Scots-Irish of that period eg Francis Hutcheson) where he freely used the surname of McGregor. In fact James McGregor was a contemporary of Rob Roy MacGregor who had been born in the Trossachs area of Stirlingshire in 1671. By the late 17th and early 18th centuries I suspect the authorities had a problem with Rob Roy McGregor - who couldn't be trusted - and his immediate family rather than with the McGregors in general.
Last year I saw a documentary on the History Channel on my satellite TV about Rob Roy and he came across as a rather untrustworthy character who frequently changed sides and whose main purpose in life seemed to be to make money for himself by whatever means possible.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3236983.stm
Returning to Sir Walter Scott, the famous American author Mark Twain blamed the novels of Sir Walter Scott for the American Civil War because of the popularity of Scott's novels among the many people of Scottish and Ulster-Scots (Scots-Irish) descent in the American southern states. Twain himself was of Scotch-Irish ancestry.http://www.electricscotland.com/history/ar...es/civilwar.htm
5th Apr 2009, 06:20pm
Hi Paul, Thanks a lot for the info. The McGregors have been a mystery to me for some time and as with many other family trees there is a sad story to accompany them. My direct ancestor was a Mark McGregor c 1830 who lived with (didnt marry) an Elizabeth Park from Colraine. They had a son Mark in1855 who died the same year and a second son Daniel in 1860. Unfortunately when Daniel was only months old Mark was admitted to the poorhouse in Greenock and transfered to the Lunatic Asylum thereafter. He died about 8 months later with softening of the Brain aged 31. I managed to get a copy of the poorhouse records which stated that he was a Roman Catholic his next of kin was a brother Neil McGregor and his parents Daniel and Elizabeth McKendry. I know he was with the Argyll and sutherland Highlanders stationed at perth in 1851 but there the trail ends. The only reason I think they are from Ireland is because of Elizabeth Park and the fact that I cant find any other records on any of the family in Scotland. Do you know where i should search for records regarding the Colraine area? Thanks again for your help.
Oops forgot to mention Mark also spent some time in Inverary jail between 1851 and 1861 having been charged with Contempt of court. Maybe he was a bit of a rogue following in the footsteps of Rob Roy himself.
5th Apr 2009, 08:17pm
Park is a Scottish surname and is found in Ulster probably as a result of the Plantations. McKendry is quite a common surname in Ulster and is of mixed origins. Some people in Ulster with the surname McKendry or McHendry or McHenry are descendants of 17th century Scottish Protestant Mac Eanruig Planters. The others are members of the native Gaelic Irish Mac Einri family, who are descendants of Henry O'Kane, the son of Dermot O'Kane (O'Cahan or O'Cathain) an Irish chieftain from County Derry who died in 1428. I have read that people in Ulster with the surname McHenry are usually of native Irish stock while those with the surnames of McKendry or McHendry are usually of Scottish Planter extraction. From personal experience of studying surnames, I am sure there will be many exceptions to this rule!
5th Apr 2009, 10:35pm
Hi Paul, This is all really interesting and sheds a lot of light on my ancestors. You have obviously spent a lot of time studying this subject. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Kind regards Pauline
6th Apr 2009, 08:48am
QUOTE (pidge @ 5th Apr 2009, 08:32pm)
My direct ancestor was a Mark McGregor c 1830 who lived with (didnt marry) an Elizabeth Park from Colraine.
QUOTE (Paul Kelly @ 5th Apr 2009, 10:29pm)
Park is a Scottish surname and is found in Ulster probably as a result of the Plantations.
I knew the Park surname was somehow familiar and I have just realised that there is a thread on the Family History forum started by the GG member CottonHistorian which mentions a Park family from County Derry. From CottonHistorian's remarks later in the thread it seems likely that his Park ancestors from County Derry were Presbyterian.http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15794
Coleraine is of course in County Derry. I have had a quick look at the International Genealogy Index and it seems that Park or Parke was quite a common surname in County Derry. Nevertheless, you and CottonHistorian could be somehow related.
Scottish born Mungo Park (from the Scottish Borders region where the surname is said to have originated) was a famous late 18th and early 19th century explorer in Africa.
6th Apr 2009, 12:48pm
Pidge was the young Mark born in 1855 born in Ireland or Scotland? I couldn't tell from your original post.
6th Apr 2009, 08:54pm
I can answer that for you. I was checking the International Genealogical Index (IGI) earlier today and Mark McGregor junior was born in Greenock, Renfrewshire in 1855. His parents were Mark McGregor senior and Elizabeth Park. Mark's youger brother Daniel McGregor was born in Dunoon, Cowal, east Argyll in 1859. Although Dunoon is in Argyll, it is just a short boat trip across the Firth of Clyde from Gourock in Renfrewshire.
Pauline, the west Renfrewhire towns of Greenock, Port Glasgow and Gourock were well known for their large Irish immigrant populations in the mid/late 19th century. I have made several references to Greenock in the topic 'Common Irish Surname In Scotland'. If you use the search facility in that topic you will find the posts which mention Greenock.
You said Mark McGregor senior was a Catholic and that he died in 1861 in Greenock aged 31 years and that his parents were Daniel McGregor and Elizabeth McKendry. It is clear from the IGI that Mark was a very unusual forename to be associated with the McGregor surname. What is even clearer from the IGI is that the McKendry surname was very much associated with the north of Ireland, especially Counties Antrim and Derry. In an earlier post I said that McKendry is an Anglicisation of the Scots Gaelic surname MacEanruig and that it is also sometimes an Anglicisation of the Irish Gaelic surname MacEinri. Well, the Scottish Gaelic surname of MacEanruig was more usually Anglicised as Henderson, especially in Scotland. The Anglicisation as McKendry seems to have been peculiar to those MacEanruigs who settled in County Antrim during the 17th century Scottish Plantation of Ulster. And, of course, the native Irish MacEinris also adopted the Anglicisation of McKendry, as well as McHenry, in both Antrim and Derry.
I think it highly likely that Mark McGregor senior (born c1830) came from County Antrim or County Derry because he was a Catholic and because his mother's maiden surname was the uniquely north Ulster surname of McKendry.
Coleraine is of course in east Derry right next to county Antrim.
Pauline, how do you know Eliza Park came from Coleraine?
7th Apr 2009, 01:49pm
Hi Rond, Young Mark was born in Scotland (Greenock) in 1855 just at the start of records. It appears he had a younger brother that also died (pre1855) but i cant find any record of this on the old parish records. I assume because he was catholic.
Paul. I know Elizabeth Park was from Colraine because it is just visable on young Marks Birth certificate. It also said that Mark is her second child stating 1 boy living 1 boy dead and that Mark senior was from Glasgow. On Baby Marks death cert 3 weeks later is states that he died in Smith Lane Greenock. I also have not came across many Marks so agree that is not a very common name despite it being a biblical name. I think the whole family definately had an association with Argyll as Marks brother Neils records also place him in Dunoon, Lochgilphead and Greenock. On Neils records it also said that he was from Glasgow but I assumed maybe they just said that to avoid prejudice that was rife in those days.
Kind regards Pauline
7th Apr 2009, 07:09pm
So Mark McGregor senior (born c1830) and his brother Neil were both from Glasgow and they were Catholics. I think it is highly likely that their mother, Elizabeth McKendry, was Irish and came from either County Antrim or County Derry for the reasons I gave about the McKendry surname in my previous post.
Although there was a big upsurge in Irish immigration into Glasgow following the Irish Potato Famine of 1846, many Irish immigrants had settled in Glasgow prior to the 1840s ie in the 1820s and 1830s and possibly even earlier. It is known that steam boats began on the routes from Belfast and Derry to Glasgow in the early 1820s. According to the 1841 census there were around 44000 Irish born people in Glasgow which was 16% of the population of Glasgow and this was 5 years before the Irish Famine. The Glasgow statistician, James Cleland, in his census of the city of Glasgow in 1831 numbered the Irish born at 35554 out of a total population of 202426 (17.5%). Of the 35554 Irish born, he listed 19333 as Catholic and 16221 as Protestant. Some historians have argued that Cleland probably slightly overestimated the Irish born population of Glasgow in 1831, though he correctly highlighted the fact that a substantial minority of the early Irish immigrants to Glasgow were Protestants. I have discussed the number and percentage of Irish born people in Scotland according to 19th century censuses in posts #287 and #289 of the topic 'Common Irish Surnames In Scotland'.http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.ph...st&p=230817
Although Elizabeth McKendry was probably Irish, her husband Daniel McGregor may or may not have been Irish. In fact, he may have been the one who had a connection with the Cowal region of Argyll.
8th Apr 2009, 09:25am
Hi Paul, I dont know where the argyll and Ireland parts seperate but Neil also married an Irish girl. During my searches I found another McGregor family with a son Mark (ages dont match) born in Dunoon but the parents and g/parents didnt match. Im sure as Mark is an unusual name there must be a connection but I cant find it. I have been searching the Derry area and came across a Samual McGregor (Shoemaker) in church st, Colraine about 1824. This was also Marks father Daniels occupation (Maybe a family business who knows). Anyway the search continues, Thanks for all your help.
8th Apr 2009, 04:42pm
Shortly after making my last post yesterday evening I received an email from someone who had noticed the thread. The person had looked up Mark McGregor Junior's birth certificate for 1855 and the 1861 census entry for Mark McGregor Senior on the scotlandspeople website. The person forwarded the 2 files to me. I had already seen Mark McGregor Junior's 1855 birth details on the IGI but the actual birth certificate from the scotlandspeople website is much more revealing. If you want to see the 2 scotlandpeople files you should send me your email address and I will forward them on to you. I suspect you have already seen the 1855 birth certificate but you seem to have missed a few important details on it probably because the writing is fairly faded in parts.
According to Mark McGregor Junior's 1855 birth certificate, his parents Mark McGregor Senior (born c1830) and Elizabeth Park married in Glasgow on 30th May 1852. Eliza Park was born in Coleraine, County Derry and Mark McGregor Senior was born in Glasgow. However, the 1861 census entry for Mark McGregor Senior when he was staying in the Greenock Lunatic Asylum indicates that he was born in Ireland! Mark Senior must have died shortly after the 1861 census.
So Eliza Park was from Coleraine and she probably came to Glasgow as a young woman where she met and married Mark McGregor Senior in 1852. As for Mark McGregor Senior, he may have been born in the north of Ireland (County Derry or County Antrim) around 1830 and came to Glasgow as a young boy in the 1830s with his Irish parents Daniel McGregor and Elizabeth McKendry. So, although Mark Senior was strictly speaking Irish, he was probably brought up in Glasgow and thought of himself as a Glaswegian. Alternatively, Mark Senior may have been born in Glasgow though I am sure that his mother Elizabeth McKendry must have been from Couty Antrim or County Derry for the reasons I gave about the McKendry surname in an earlier post. Have you ever tried looking for the McGregor family in the 1841 and 1851 Glasgow censuses?
The connection with Cowal (east Argyll) might just be that that Mark Senior had been with the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders as a young man. After leaving the army, he seems to have worked as a labourer in the neighbouring locations of southeast Argyll (Dunoon) and northwest Renfrewshire (Greenock) until his mental health deteriorated and his ultimate death in Greenock in 1861. If you don't mind me asking, what became of the family after Mark Senior's death?
8th Apr 2009, 05:48pm
Hi Paul, What you have said about Mark being born in Ireland and brought up in Glasgow makes a lot of sence. I have searched the Glasgow cencus for the family but unfortunately have drawn a blank. Thanks for the offer but I already have copies of the various documents from Scotlands people. I did notice the marriage date but on Mark seniors death cert it states that he was single and on the lunatic assylum admission papers it states that he and Elizabeth were co-habitating not married. What do you think about the other younger Mark that I found in Dunoon. Do you think there is likely to be some connection due to the unusual name?
After Mark seniors death Elizabeth went on to marry a James Kyle(from memory) he was from the Partick area of Glasgow. They eventually moved to the east coast where young Daniel married in Dunfermline, Fife. He has 3 children Mary Elizabeth (my grandfathers mum), Robert and Nora Burton McGregor. After the death of his wife in 1898 Daniel married again and had (from memory) 3 other children and moved back to Greenock where he died.
7th Apr 2010, 01:37pm
I came across this thread.
I have knowledge of 2 catholic McGregor families from near Coleraine
And most Mcgregors in Ulster were prestbyterian
1 family lived in Drumsurn headed by Alexander McGregor my Great grandfather born circa 1860 (we know not where) who married a Bridget McLaughlin and had many children
The other catholic McGregors lived close by in Limavady town and we know anecdotally that the families were cousins
We also think anecdotally that there was a Scottish and an army connection but have not been able to take it back either way
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