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Well today I finished knitting Nessie!!!! while listening to Al Bannach.Good music .I'll leave Nessie to finish when I get back from the cottage in October .Just has to be stitched together .Now I'm going to start the Coo' for my other daughter .Lol at the Knit your own Scotland Book .
QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 19th Aug 2013, 06:20pm) *
Cannae be daein' wi´ hings runnin´ roon in circles. unsure.gif

Dugs, cuddies, folk, caurs, bikes - aw the same tae me!

Mair fun wi´ ma Hornby Dublo!

Hornby make sex toys? ohmy.gif
Belle Vue 49 Birmingham 41.
Good meet but i still don't undestand the rules.
Think Belle vue have turned a corner.
Hi Purplefan, YOU dont understand the rules, I have been going to speedway since 1964 and I gave up on the rules, they keep changing them for the better?? aye

Bye for now, norrie
I was standing near the start line Norrie and when the race began,
the riders reved their engines, and i was hit by a ton of Gravel. biggrin.gif

WOrk today then Football tonight.

Altrincham Vs Barrow skrill North league.
waiting for a delivery.
Why are you never first?
Looks like i'm in all day; miss the football. if i pop out for a few tins of bru
i bet thats when they will come.
I'm having to clear all my rubbish out of the big garage today. Mary's brother was planning his birthday BBQ in the garden this afternoon ( the reason that I had to make it all pretty in the last few weeks with a new fence and rockery) but rain stopped play this morning.
Sun's trying to make a show but we can't take the chance ... anyway, grass is wet. Pity it didn't rain yesterday, then I needn't have cut it laugh.gif
Hi Purplefan, I stand on the back straight at Ashfield, near on the centre, I still get hit by stones biggrin.gif
Safety glasses should be worn

Bye for now, norrie
It was exciting hearing the roar of the engines. A lot of old blokes go.
Our attendance in the elete league was about 6,000.

Just watched star trek !V voyage home. Now going to watch Lord of the rings two towers; and recorded from last night Jack the ripper.
And no; it was not a masonic cover up, or the Queens grandson Prince Eddie.
Hi Purplefan that was a good turnout, if tigers had a 1,000 fans they would be happier
Another defeat todat at home, Ipswich turned us over, we are a sorry team, roll on next season
Off to the football.
Skrill North league.
Vauxhall motors Vs Altrincham.
Bugger all.
I'm knackered. Hard day at work.
Just chilling this evening. Feet up on the recliner and a cup of coffee.


Thu 22nd Away Swindon Elite League w 42-48
3 wins in a row for the aces. biggrin.gif
Been round Kitchen showrooms today and the past week or so, not one of my favouright pastimes
Got to bite the bullet kitchen is needing some TLC
First price is in and it was pretty close to what I expected
Will watch Arsenal tonight
Hi Norrie. My parents just had their kitchen done by Wren. They have a summer sale on just now and really nice choice of kitchens. Mary
I was going to go into Town today but was too lazy to make the effort.
Now I am bored out my mind and wish I had gone out, so I started to knit another pair of mitts to use up the odd balls of wool I have.
having a go on my wii fit. sad.gif
Aww it's no fair.
I have ta go in fur a bath and i want te go out cartin with my pals.
wee eck and fat boab.
Hi miconnelly, we have been to 4 copmpanies, I have had enough, 2 quotes still to come in, after that we can decide who will do the job

Bye for now, Norrie
I went to the Hairdresser today and got my hair cropped, and I mean cropped.
When I came home I asked my husband if he liked it. Typical man, he said he did not see any difference. biggrin.gif
QUOTE (Heather @ 29th Aug 2013, 03:44pm) *
I went to the Hairdresser today and got my hair cropped, and I mean cropped.
When I came home I asked my husband if he liked it. Typical man, he said he did not see any difference. biggrin.gif

I would not have bothered Heather. You can't perfect perfection.
Awe Purple Fan, that is a nice thing to say especially as you have never seen me.

I was shopping in the Supermarket today and a very elderly lady was blocking the aisle. Three times I asked her to " excuse me please " she seemed not to hear and leaning right towards her I again asked her " excuse me please " and she replied with a smile on her face," I'm very well thank you ". laugh.gif
I just stood there smiling at her until she finally moved.
Watching a show called ghost adventures on really.
They have all the hi tec equipment. Heat detectors, motion sensors, a radio that can pick up
spirit voices, and a EMF meter; in fact they have everything except a bloody ghost. laugh.gif
Hi Heather I am sure your hair is nice, Claire has had short hair for donkeys years, no problems with her say I am drying my hair, I keep mines short too biggrin.gif
Bye for now, norrie
Going up to Glasgow on the overnight. preparing my paper for the whitchapel
society on the subject of, why Elizabeth stride is not a Ripper victim.
Then as it is the 126th anniversary of Mary Nichols death in bucks row. (31st August).
Off to London for a Ripper lecture and walk by Martin Fido.
Busy weekend.
Norrie, sure it's a wise man you are to keep your hair short. wink.gif

My hair is so short I could hardly tong it this morning, it was all sticking up. biggrin.gif
Hi Heather, do what your mother did, lick your fingers and rub them in your hair biggrin.gif

Bye for now, norrie
Purple, you certainly have a wide range of interests. That's so great.
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 31st Aug 2013, 08:35am) *
Purple, you certainly have a wide range of interests. That's so great.

I like to keep busy betsy.
wow! I never knew how expensive London is.
Euston station. Bacon roll and a cup of tea
8.75. I'd sooner starve.

Giving my talk later. Very nervous.
Hi Purplefan, hope it went OK

Bye for now, norrie
Decided not to take the flat. It has too many problems.
So still looking.
Having a sleep day, as i'm not that Long back from London.
Talk was okay. Done one before but as this was on the annaversery 126 years ago; it was a
bit special. 80 people were there.
Had a really good weekend.
Hi purplefan, so your no nearer seeing the Jagz in a regular basis, keep looking

Bye for now, norrie
Never eat in stations - there's usually a cafe round the back where the workers go.
This is the talk i did. I hope you don't mind but i am buzzing.


Elizabeth stride was found at 1am on the 30th september 1888 in the yard of the Jewish International working mens club at 40 Berner street (formally dutfield's yard) By Lousi Diemschutz. He turned his pony and cart into the yard; his horse shied to the left he thought there was a bundle of rags, so he prodded it with his stick; he could not lift it, so he got down of his cart and struck a match and in the split second it took the wind to blow the match out, he could see it was the body of a woman.

Her throat had been horribly cut but no more mutilations. It is believed that The ripper was disturbed by the arrival of Diemschutz and he had escaped when Diemschutz went to get help. As we will see there are several discrepencies to this theory and as we look at them closely, we can come to the conclusion that, ELizabeth stride was not killed by the ripper.
The 30th september is known as "The double event" as 45 minutes after Stride was killed; Catherine Eddows was horribly mutilated in miter Square. In this paper i am going to look at 4 main reason why stride could not possibly have been killed by the ripper.
1. The M.O of strides death.
2. The location I.E. Dutfirld's yard.
3. Strides death in relation to the others.
4. Timing.

As stated in the opening ststement, stride was totally different to the other ripper deaths. You have to bear in mind that when looking for simmularities, you have to keep in mind the other murders dissimilarities.
1. Ripper victims were cut lying down from Left to right.
2. Ripper victims showed signs of strangulation.
3. Ripper victims were found on their backs.
None of those three main points were found on stride.
1. Stride was found on her side.
2. stride was Not strangled.
3. her throat was cut from left to right but not as deeply as the others.
In fact the only murders that fitted the rippers M.O. was Polly Nichols, Annie chapman and catherine Eddows in miter square,
. Local doctor Frederick William Blackwell attended the inquest he was to comment t:" that there were too many disimularities in the stride case to the other two". The first disimularitiey was the position of the body. It was found lying on her left side. The other ripper victims were found on their backs. Also the way in stride was attacked is different. The other ripper victims were attacked from the front and cut when they were lying on the ground. Stride, said Dr. Blackwell was cut when she was standing up or on the way down to the ground.
"I should say that as the woman had held sweets in her left hand that her head was dragged back by means of a silk handkerchief she wore round her neck, and her throat was then cut".
There was a clear-cut incision on the neck. It was six inches in length and commenced two and a half inches in a straight line below the angle of the jaw, one half inch in over an undivided muscle, and then becoming deeper, dividing the sheath. The cut was very clean and deviated a little downwards. The arteries and other vessels contained in the sheath were all cut through.

The cut through the tissues on the right side was more superficial, and tailed off to about two inches below the right angle of the jaw. The deep vessels on that side were uninjured. From this is was evident that the hemorrhage was caused through the partial severance of the left carotid artery.
There was no sign of strangelation like in the other victims.
If you look at Annie chapman M.O of death it i different in several departments.
Dr, Bagster phillips describes the body as he found it.
The body was found on it's back.
"The left arm was placed across the left breast. The legs were drawn up, the feet resting on the ground, and the knees turned outwards. The face was protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips. (indicating she was strangled) The tongue was evidently much swollen. The front teeth were perfect as far as the first molar, top and bottom and very fine teeth they were. The body was terribly mutilated...the stiffness of the limbs was not marked, but was evidently commencing. He noticed that the throat was severed deeply; that the incision through the skin were jagged and reached right round the neck... Elizabeth stride was clean and dieviated a little downwards.

He should say that the instrument used at the throat and abdomen was the same. It must have been a very sharp knife with a thin narrow blade, and must have been at least 6 in. to 8 in. in length, probably longer.

A handkerchief was round the throat of the deceased when he saw it early in the morning. He should say it was not tied on after the throat was cut."
The cuts in the throat were different in the fact that chapmans cut was jagged and Stride was straight. Blackwell commented that he felt the murderer knew what he was doing in the Stride case.
Also if you look at the first murder in Buck's row of Polly Nichols, Her throat was cut in two places. This mortuary photograph of polly shows two cuts.

On the left side of the neck, about 1 in. below the jaw, there was an incision about 4 in. in length, and ran from a point immediately below the ear. On the same side, but an inch below, and commencing about 1 in. in front of it, was a circular incision, which terminated at a point about 3 in. below the right jaw. That incision completely severed all the tissues down to the vertebrae. The large vessels of the neck on both sides were severed. The incision was about 8 in. in length. the cuts must have been caused by a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence. No blood was found on the breast, either of the body or the clothes. There were no injuries about the body until just about the lower part of the abdomen. Two or three inches from the left side was a wound running in a jagged manner. The wound was a very deep one, and the tissues were cut through. There were several incisions running across the abdomen. There were three or four similar cuts running downwards, on the right side, all of which had been caused by a knife which had been used violently and downwards. the injuries were form left to right and might have been done by a left handed person. All the injuries had been caused by the same instrument."
Annie chapman.

Again if we look at the way Nichols and chapman had their throats cut, you can see it was different, it may well have been a different knife that was used on Stride.
As to dutfield's yard as a location for the murder. I think that what happened that night was that Stride was caught in a robbery. She was standing outside dutfields yard when a man approaced her and grabbed her shoulders, forced her down and she let out three screams.( not very loudly). This was witnessed by a man named Israel schwarts who was returning home at 12:45 am or there abouts. Timing is another issue that i will look at closely.
I think the press were too quick to connect this murder with the two previous and the Eddows one in miter square that was to happen later.
There was already anti jewish semitism in the area, and people were saying that No English man could have comitted such horrible crimes, and that it must have been a forgigner. Foreigner was a name given to describe Jews. The amount of Jews in whitechapel had trebbled, and also the irish in the area, were starting to resent the jews. I think that when stride was killed in Dutfield yard, the press wrote it up because it was mainly jewish patrons in the club and the Leather apron scare started by the star after the chapman murder on the 8th September had died down. It was a way to write up the problems of the area, and the radicals thought they had a good chance of winning the by election used the murders to fuel the conditions people lived, the left winged press; particulary the star and the pall mall gazette, sensationilised them and wrote it up to implicate the Jews, and if the murder had happened on adifferent night to Eddowes, i do not think the stride murder would have been linked. Dutfield's yard itself is a strange place.
It was a three story building that was converted into the Jewish working mans club and on the night of the murder, there was a debate called;"Why Jews should be socialists" It was chaired by a man named
Maurice Eagle who left the club at 11:45am to take his young lady home, leaving by the front door. He said he returned at 12:35am and the front door was shut.

He told the coroner that it was too dark to see anyone lying on the ground. He also did not remember seeing anyone in Berner street and this is a crutial point as we look at the timing the only person who had a watch was Dr. Blackwell, and he looked at it when he went into the yard it was 01:16am. The rest of the times are only estiments. And as we see there is a descrepency in the time Israel schwarts saw stride being attacked at 12:45am and louis diemschultz finding her at 1:00am. If that was the case then the Ripper must have hung about for 15 minutes doing nothing waiting to make his easape, and he could have completed his mutilations. Abraham Hoshberg who lived at number 28 Berner street told the press:Yes; I was one of those who first saw the murdered woman. It was about a quarter to one o'clock, I should think, when I heard a policeman's whistle blown, and came down to see what was the matter. In the gateway two or three people had collected, and when I got there I saw a short, dark young woman lying on the ground with a gash between four and five inches long in her throat. I should say she was from 25 to 28 years of age. Her head was towards the north wall, against which she was lying. She had a black dress on, with a bunch of flowers pinned on the breast. In her hand there was a little piece of paper containing five or six cachous. The body was found by a man whose name I do not know - a man who goes out with a pony and barrow, and lives up the archway, where he was going, I believe, to put up his barrow on coming home from market. He thought it was his wife at first, but when he found her safe at home he got a candle and found this woman. He never touched it till the doctors had been sent for.

The little gate is always open, or, at all events, always unfastened. There are some stables up there - Messrs. Duncan, Woollatt, and Co.'s, I believe and there is a place to which a lot of girls take home sacks which they have been engaged in making. None of them would be there, though, after about one on Saturday afternoon. None of us recognised the woman, and I do not think she belonged to this neighbourhood. She was dressed very respectably. There seemed to be no wounds on the body.
It is a well detailed report; as we can see there are several discrepancies.
1. The time. He said it was about 12:45am when he heard the policemans whistle. But it was 01:00Am.
so you can see why we should be very cautious.
Also the description of Liz was wong.
2. He said she had a Bunch of llowers, infact there was only one red chrysanthemum pinned to her dress.
3. He also gave the impression that Diemschutz
touched the body by saying "He never touched it till the police arived". Diemschutz never touched the body at all.
In relation to the time of the murder we have to look
at another witness who stood outside her door.
Mrs.Fanny mortimer was standing at her door between 12:50am and 1:00am.Yet she saw and heard nothing. She only saw a young man walk up Berner street who stopped to look at the club then rushed off. His name was Leon Goldstern who was a traveling sales man and the bag contained empty cigarette cartons. Yet unwittingly Mrs. Mortimer has
given the first immage of the ripper with his black shiny bag. Mrs. Mortimer infact had told the star that she was outside the whole time, between 12:30am and 1am. If we look at this it could not have been the case. If she was outside at 12:30am, why did she not see PC smith walk by? She said that she heard the heavy stamp of a policeman before she went out. Now unless PC smith passed up Berner street at a later time, she must have been wrong. She did have a clock inside. We can work out the time she was standing there by an unlikly source.
Charles Letchford told the press.
I passed through the street at half-past 12, and everything seemed to me to be going on as usual, and my sister was standing at the door at ten minutes to one, but did not see any one pass by. I heard the commotion when the body was found, and heard the policemen's whistles, but did not take any notice of the matter, as disturbances are very frequent at the club, and I thought it was only another row.
So was charles Letchfords sister Fanny Mortimer?
Letchford said she did not see anyone pass, but Mortimer saw Leon Goldstern pass at 12:55am?
And the fact that he was carrying a black bag
Perhaps that is why this idea that he was a doctor had stuck? The Location was wrong in that there was just too many people in the club. The club being very busy there were over 100 people at the talk, some had stayed on, about 40 people. After killing stride he then walked over to the city and mutilated catherine Eddowes (with a different knife that was used on stride) then went back into the east end.
He dropped a piece of catherine Eddows Apron in the door way of a shop in Golstoun street that was found by P.C.Long. He was walking his beat in Goulston Street at 2.55am, 30th September 1888, whereupon he found a portion of woman's apron (produced at the inquest) lying in the entrance of the staircase to 108-19 Wentworth Dwellings. There were bloodstains on it and one portion was wet. Above it on the wall of the passage was a message written in chalk. At the inquest, PC Long gave the wording as "The Jeuwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing". The apron piece had not been there when he had passed the spot earlier at 2:20am, though he could not say if the writing had been there also. He took the apron piece to Commercial Street Police Station, reporting it to the Inspector on duty. So after killing stride, the in a bloodied frenzie killed Eddowes he took off and dropped the piece of apron and then wrote a cryptic message in chalk on the wall.
It just dose not add up. I do believe the ripper murdered Eddowes and dropped the piece of her apron, the clue that tells us he was heading back into whitechapel. But other than that, the grafitto i believe was already there and PC Long just failed to notice it.
The ripper case is filled with little discrepencies and of course a lot of powerful immagery. But i think the events surrounding Elizabeth strides murder will show that the ripper did not kill her. There are 5 murders that are attributed to him. Known as the (Canonical 5) They are
1. Mary Ann (polly) Nichols
2. Annie Chapman
3. Elizabeth stride.
4. Catherine Eddowes
5. Mary Janette Kelly.
But in the whitechapel files there are 11 murders and it is a fallacy that the murders stopped after
Kelly, in millers court on the 9th November. I also think that Alice Mackenzie on the 17th July 1889 and Frances cole 13 February 1891 are Ripper victims, and the list should be:
1. Martha Tabram 7th August 1888.
2. Mary ann (polly) Nichols 31stAugust 1888.
3. Annie chapman 9th Sept 1888.
4. Catherine Eddowes 30th Sept 1888.
5. Mary kelly. 9th Nov 1888.
6. Alice Mackenzie. 17th July 1889.
7. Frances coles. 13th Feb 1891.

Source material.
Star News paper 1st October 1888.
police illistrated News 2nd september 1888
A to Z Of Jack the Ripper by keith skinner, paul begg, and Martin fido. (page 316 Nichols inquest
First dress rehearsal for my acting debut tonight. 7:30.
QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 2nd Sep 2013, 09:22am) *
Never eat in stations - there's usually a cafe round the back where the workers go.

Especially any of the London stations. Mary
Today I went to the wool shop in the Gallowgate and bought nice pale blue aran wool to knit a childs sweater.

I have been using up all the odd balls of wool I have knitting childrens mitts.

I have also knitted a couple of baby hats with mitts to match and a nice ladies scarf.

I will hand them all in at the end of the year for the Chapel Christmas Fete.
I like the gallowgate. There is a cracking model shop there. Forget
what it is called. Jamiesons is it?
Purple fan I do not have a clue what the name of the Model Shop is, I can't remember seeing it.

My husband used to make a lot of Models, but bought them from The Clyde Model Dockyard shop in Argyle Arcade, now long gone. He even made models some from some kind of cement for making models.

I have had a lazy day as usual. I did some knitting and in a burst of energy I washed down a couple of doors.
That model shop was discussed in the Hielanman's Umbrella thread.
Lot of changes all for the bad.
Just won 100 on a scratch card thumbup.gif
Hi Purplefan, good for you and thanks for reminding me, I have not checked last night syndicate lottery biggrin.gif
smashing pf enjoy your win wink.gif
Well done, Purple. Enjoy! Are you going to buy a new toy with it?
I have decided to buy partick Thistle fc.
Ive no idea what ill do with the remaining 90.00 though.
I'm going up to Glasgow next weekend to look at a flat; so i'll
spend it there, I need a set of kitchen scales.

doing some house work.
Good luck with the flat.
ive looked at about 10 so far; none suitable. Thanks.
it's in cathcart,
I was going to the football but i slept in.
Play on my wii for a couple of hours.
Ill be spiderman for the afternoon. smile.gif
Sitting at the PC, a wee bit muzzy after a late night biggrin.gif
Glad I wasn't intending to drive ths morning

Bye for now, norrie
QUOTE (norrie123 @ 7th Sep 2013, 01:21pm) *
Sitting at the PC, a wee bit muzzy after a late night biggrin.gif
Glad I wasn't intending to drive ths morning

Bye for now, norrie

Just a wee bit? biggrin.gif
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