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> City Centre Police Get Taser Stun Guns, New scheme to protect officers and public
fronswa
post 30th Jan 2010, 05:13pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 30th Jan 2010, 02:08pm) *
They'd have Tased me right away to be on the safe side.

Yup!

We all know that most of the police will be reasonable if they were allowed to carry them, but FAR too many will 'trigger happy'.

I have to add though that Strathclyde police seem a lit bit more reasonable on the whole. Especially if you compare them to the Met' in London. mad.gif

But if you give the police something... they're going to use it. No doubt about it.

Look at the Terror Laws, and the number of people that have been detained using them.
-The guy at the Labour conference -
-Two journalists at an arms fair in London
- and the best of the bunch... one of the Lords that actually helped set up the terror law in the first place. huh.gif
None of them had anything to do with terrorism. It was just a handy tool that allowed the officers on duty to cut corners, and detain someone without reasonable cause.

If you think about the trial period... what officer is going to abuse it, or be too quick to use it if they are under close scrutiny? None!
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Jim D
post 30th Jan 2010, 06:09pm
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The current Taser guns operate using low current and high voltage. It is used to cause an involuntary contraction of the muscles.

The shock from a household appliance is more dangerous.

Police officers in Scottish Police forces are trained in all methods, baton, handcuffs and CS spray. This training is continuous throughout their service. You cannot be an operative officer unless you have qualified and continue to re-qualify in the skills annually. It is part of the compusory officer safety training, which also include basic first aid and CPR. Each time an officer uses any of these he must be able to personally justify his use of force.

Officers have been wearing "stab proof" body armour for years? Why? I think it was issued because it was deemed necessary. A person with a knife is potentially and commonly a killer. That person could justifiably be shot dead by a firearms officer.

The skills required to use a Taser gun required strict rules regarding when it IS and is NOT justifiable in using such force.
The Taser gun has been in use by authorised firearms officers in Scottish Forces for a number of years . Have we heard of any horror stories? If there were we would have heard of them in the press.

Unlike officers in other countries, the Police in Scotland do not approach a motorist with a gun in order to do a routine check. The normal approach is that the person in the car is a normal member of the public. Why should that change?

On the other hand, if the person is causing a danger to the officer or other members of the public? That person deserves to receive the full force of the law!

Why should a Police officer be deliberately under-equipped to protect himself and the public? The officer is the person you would expect to come to your assistance when you are attacked and when you are in danger - to possibly put themselves into the same dangerous situation with you. They would then be expected to relieve you from that danger. That action requires suitable equipment to minimise the danger to themselves and the public.


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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit - NO man is at all hours wise.
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*Guest*
post 30th Jan 2010, 06:58pm
Post #33






No, no, no,!-the UK Police Force is respected the world over for being able to handle difficult situations with diplomacy and teamwork, not tasers and guns. Although even the Police are not perfect, they are just a reflection of the society they live and work in and considering this we must support them, not encourage them to be pro-actively aggressive. This is always the temptation when you arm 'peacekeepers'. The record shows, that apart from a few sad cases the Police have managed to control the streets protecting themselves and the innocent public without this kind of thing. I fear, if brought into use, it could be a slippery slope..towards packing pistols. My father was a policeman and he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry.
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fronswa
post 30th Jan 2010, 07:43pm
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QUOTE (Jim D @ 30th Jan 2010, 06:07pm) *
Why should a Police officer be deliberately under-equipped to protect himself and the public? The officer is the person you would expect to come to your assistance when you are attacked and when you are in danger - to possibly put themselves into the same dangerous situation with you. They would then be expected to relieve you from that danger. That action requires suitable equipment to minimise the danger to themselves and the public.

They have stab proof vests, batons, CS spray, handcuffs, vans, cars, helicopters, dogs, and considerable assistance at the call of a radio - which includes assault rifles, and armoured riot squads.
Add to that the fact that they have more rights under legislation than normal citizens (quite impressive rights that are abused on a daily basis by some). Granted, with that, they are also obliged to get involved in a situation - if they didn't they could be charged, unlike normal folk who can pass by a rape etc, and wouldn't be committing a crime.

We give the police a considerable edge over the rest of us in society so that they can perform their role. And rightly so. But there's limits, and some of us disagree where those limits are.

To say that they are accountable if they screw up and misuse their powers is a bit of a stretch by the way.
Yeah... they'll be disciplined if there are independent credible witnesses nearby.
If not?
The Met were trying to blame protesters for the death of that guy in London until camcorder footage came out. The police are only accountable if someone is there to see them, or the officers present are willing to 'rat out' their colleagues, and that's pretty rare to find given the nature and conditions of their work-life.

Police in Glasgow are pretty professional in my experience, but where I grew up they were off their heads.
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TeeHeeHee
post 30th Jan 2010, 08:59pm
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QUOTE (fronswa @ 30th Jan 2010, 08:41pm) *
... Granted, with that, they are also obliged to get involved in a situation - if they didn't they could be charged, unlike normal folk who can pass by a rape etc, and wouldn't be committing a crime.

That's strange. In Germany if you walk past someone in trouble and ignore the situation, you have committed a crime, Same as if you drive past a car accident where people might be injured and ignore that, you have committed a crime.


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fronswa
post 30th Jan 2010, 10:01pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 30th Jan 2010, 08:57pm) *
That's strange. In Germany if you walk past someone in trouble and ignore the situation, you have committed a crime, Same as if you drive past a car accident where people might be injured and ignore that, you have committed a crime.

Yeah.
I'd probably prefer it if people were obliged to step in, assuming they are able bodied etc.

'Bystander Intervention' is a funny subject though. It's all well and good me saying that people should step in and get involved, but until I'm in that situation, and faced with any risks etc, it's all just talk on my part.

When you mention someone in trouble in Germany, do you mean general trouble, or being assaulted by another?
I can understand the car accident thing in.
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j.irvine bell
post 31st Jan 2010, 12:42am
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I have voted to wait and see. I see that usual know it all politicos are at it again. Anytime the subject of the police is raised they are out with their mythical accusations of riot squads beating up the population as a whole and their political fellow travellers in particular. As we all know the preservation of public order is a police matter and it can hardly be otherwise unless you want to return to the days of the army and militia controlling the private citizens of this country. I am really tired of the constant comparisons of Scotlands police forces with the multiple law enforcement agencies and their methods in the U.S.A. who seem to cross each others paths. In recent years we have seen the G8 summit at Gleneagles and although there was some localised violence - probably on both sides - the fact remains that compared with law enforcement agencies on the continent and elsewhere our police used a softly softly approach which was overall a success and for which they should be commended. Perhaps the miners strikes in the eighties - another of Thatchers legacies - caused a lot of concerns about police tactics and methods but it appears that they have learned from this. It is also curious that the bloggers opposed to this have questioned the training of the police in the use of this weapon. I would expect that the officers concerned would receive full training as every other specialist in the police does from your traffic cop, dog handler, mounted division, C.I.D. officers and last by no means least your firearms specialist. I have never been in favour of an armed police service other than those especially trained in the use of firearms when the occasion demands it, but not only the level of violence but the very methods used in this new century demand something more than a wooden or extending metal truncheon or even a pepper or similar spray. Not only for the protection of the officers but the public they serve. To the vast majority of people whose contact with the police is rare if ever and who are not politically radical in the extreme sense whether of the left or right, the police are thought off very little until some serious disruption offending society in general, or the death or serious injury of an officer on duty and the even rarer occasions of corrupt officers, comes to their attention via the media . Then the approbation or condemnation comes but is normally in both cases short lived. If this device proves to be effective in containing violent crime then it should be available to SELECTED and voluntary officers for the protection of the public as well as the police. So let us await the outcome of the trial period and the assessment by all the experts, including public opiniion, and we can take up this debate again. Let the hotheads have their say - they will anway as we all live in a democracy that allows us so to do and not in a totalitarian state where opposition is swiflty and often violently executed in every sense of the word. I would not normally support any wait and see approach but as our Nation and City have had no real experience of such methods on a day to day basis, this I contend is the best way forward without compromising the integrety of the excercise. dry.gif
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TeeHeeHee
post 31st Jan 2010, 12:57am
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Fronswa, I think if you see someone being assaulted and don't at least inform the police asap then you are liable to criminal prosecution. If you walk or drive past as if you had seen nothing and do nothing you have commited a crime. ( ... and if you were clocked on a CCTV being a passer-by ... ?)
But I'll check it out and let you know on that.


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*Bob T*
post 31st Jan 2010, 05:10am
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"...he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry. "

Time to wake up! I've lived in 3 other countries where police are armed and i've never felt threatend. Look at what happened at the ASDA carpark a week ago. If there was a patrol car there, they could have followed the suspects instead of getting on the radio and waiting for the armed squad. 15 minutes would be a long time to wait if you were getting shot at.

So, would we have circumvented WWII by getting rid of the army navy and AF?

No sidearms is great in fantasy land, but in the city with the highest knife crime rate in Europe, they are a nessesity.
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*R Mac*
post 31st Jan 2010, 05:17am
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Hi fronswa,

It is not worth getting involved in any violence here. I have intervened twice in Glasgow, once on Sauciehall St and one in the West End where people were gettingkicked in the head on the ground. The second time group tried to attack me. End result? I was charged wih assulting a minor (17 years) and 19 year old. The guy getting kicked didn't want to press charges on the gang, but the gang were happy to do it to me. Luckily they didn't turn up on the day in court, but geez.

The Lesson:
Do not ever get involved in anything.
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weebren3
post 31st Jan 2010, 05:49am
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sorry I need to replym regarding german post. We dont live in germany but in any situation when some one is in an acident or needs help in A car,crash sick, or being attacked,we would have to be A moron,no compasion not to do something to help,would be totaly wrong.I have never met A scots who would not do that,or even call the police in A bad situation,at least we would do something right. Anyway my opinion again,we all have that right,and it would be A crime if we done zipo. dry.gif
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Rabbie
post 31st Jan 2010, 04:14pm
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Naw.

I widnea even trust some bizzies with a bottle of tizer let alone 50 000 volt "stun gun." Wits next, equipping the foosties with tranquilizer darts an blaw pipes? Mind ye that would suit some of them.

Must be other ways of curbing the "growing violence" on the "streets.", like reducing the causes in the first instance?

Same old crapperage, fight fire with fire, maybe buckets of cauld water wid be better fur “cleaning up the streets.”


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**Jim McGee**
post 31st Jan 2010, 04:59pm
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If we didn't have politcally correct socialism in this country, we wouldn't have half as much crime. The ridiculously scrawny little male and female coppers who arrive at the scene of an incident is enough to evoke raucous laughter.. A physical presence is neccessary to keep thugs in order. Big sturdy men in uniform rarely have to lift a finger to stop a disturbance and would rarely require a stun gun . The idiots who removed the size and weight guidlines for police entry are to blame for civil disorder. The big lads in the force must dread being paired with one of these arrogant midgets. It doesn't matter if a 5Ft copper can handle him/herself, they look ridiculous straining to run weighed down by a belt full of accessories. If you are a little police officer you are there because of socialist equality stupidity not because the police or public want you, help the cause of law and order and get a job at ASDA.
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**Jim McGee**
post 31st Jan 2010, 05:05pm
Post #44






QUOTE (Guest @ 30th Jan 2010, 06:56pm) *
No, no, no,!-the UK Police Force is respected the world over for being able to handle difficult situations with diplomacy and teamwork, not tasers and guns. Although even the Police are not perfect, they are just a reflection of the society they live and work in and considering this we must support them, not encourage them to be pro-actively aggressive. This is always the temptation when you arm 'peacekeepers'. The record shows, that apart from a few sad cases the Police have managed to control the streets protecting themselves and the innocent public without this kind of thing. I fear, if brought into use, it could be a slippery slope..towards packing pistols. My father was a policeman and he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry.

I'm sorry mate. you must be living in a different Glasgow from me. the police officer who steps in front of us to protect us from a thug needs the tools to do the job, personally i would give them all guns.
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Melody
post 31st Jan 2010, 07:19pm
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Aw Rabbie ah'm wi you pal as usual. Sometimes yer posts are aw that keep me just on this side of sanity. smile.gif Enough to say I don't agree with this zapping of folk business.
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