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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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JAGZ1876
post 19th Nov 2020, 05:21pm
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Well done The Simpsons season 32 episode 5, the world is waking up to Scotland regaining our independence. laugh.gif




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DannyH
post 19th Nov 2020, 07:44pm
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I know Jagz and Ashfield will accept that at this moment in time, I am not really focused on political issues. Having said that, I feel that I am able to clarify my reason for not wanting Scotland to be a member state of the EU.

I will start off by saying I have taken note that Jagz is two years younger than my daughter! That puts a different perspective on how I have been responding to his posts. I thought I was dealing with someone who was at least in their 70’s. Jagz is only 62. I am 89. So my attitude towards the EU is based on what happened before Jagz was born!

Jagz claimed in his post #22509, dated 16 Nov 20, that I hate the EU.

Ashfield in his post #22519, dated 17 Nov 20, is of the opinion that I am still willing to accept our subjugation by another state.

I hope to reply to you both in a reasonable manner.

Immediately after World War 2, my generation were conscripted into the armed forces for two years, or by choice, five years in the Merchant Navy. Those who had been in the armed forces, then had to serve five years in the Territorial Army and Reserves.

This was at the height of the Cold War. I served behind the Iron Curtain most of my time in the Army.
Many young servicemen who were children during WW2 lost their lives during their Service time. Including, young men who were murdered by German civilians, while on Guard duty in Western Germany. I am just mentioning them because they seem to have been forgotten. The reason we were there, with American and Canadian forces is well documented. To halt the Russians from pouring across Europe.

Then sometime after the war, what is referred to as The Common Market was formed. I had no issues with that. It was a trading organisation. This was subsequently superseded by the EU. All things changed. We are supposed to believe this was to create a larger market economy. Sorry. This was created to use the Eastern European countries as a barrier between Russia and the Western European countries. What other trading organisation would tolerate the majority of its members to operate with a deficit balance sheet? I know some of you will be scoffing at me.

Well please tell me why it is necessary for the USA and Canada to station military forces in this so called Trading consortium. If the USA pulls out of NATO, this will send shivers across the EU member States. Another reason why the EU doesn’t want to lose the the UK.

So Jagz, I don’t hate the EU. I just don’t want Scotland to be subjugated by an organisation which demands open borders. If the SNP want an independent Scotland to join the EU, then I won’t vote for Independence. That means I am in effect voting for Scotland to stay in the UK. This would be an occasion to vote for the devil you know. NOBODY BUT NOBODY on this forum can forecast what an OPEN BORDER will do to Scotland by the end of this century.




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bilbo.s
post 19th Nov 2020, 10:14pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 19th Nov 2020, 09:44pm) *
I know Jagz and Ashfield will accept that at this moment in time, I am not really focused on political issues. Having said that, I feel that I am able to clarify my reason for not wanting Scotland to be a member state of the EU.

I will start off by saying I have taken note that Jagz is two years younger than my daughter! That puts a different perspective on how I have been responding to his posts. I thought I was dealing with someone who was at least in their 70’s. Jagz is only 62. I am 89. So my attitude towards the EU is based on what happened before Jagz was born!

Jagz claimed in his post #22509, dated 16 Nov 20, that I hate the EU.

Ashfield in his post #22519, dated 17 Nov 20, is of the opinion that I am still willing to accept our subjugation by another state.

I hope to reply to you both in a reasonable manner.

Immediately after World War 2, my generation were conscripted into the armed forces for two years, or by choice, five years in the Merchant Navy. Those who had been in the armed forces, then had to serve five years in the Territorial Army and Reserves.

This was at the height of the Cold War. I served behind the Iron Curtain most of my time in the Army.
Many young servicemen who were children during WW2 lost their lives during their Service time. Including, young men who were murdered by German civilians, while on Guard duty in Western Germany. I am just mentioning them because they seem to have been forgotten. The reason we were there, with American and Canadian forces is well documented. To halt the Russians from pouring across Europe.

Then sometime after the war, what is referred to as The Common Market was formed. I had no issues with that. It was a trading organisation. This was subsequently superseded by the EU. All things changed. We are supposed to believe this was to create a larger market economy. Sorry. This was created to use the Eastern European countries as a barrier between Russia and the Western European countries. What other trading organisation would tolerate the majority of its members to operate with a deficit balance sheet? I know some of you will be scoffing at me.

Well please tell me why it is necessary for the USA and Canada to station military forces in this so called Trading consortium. If the USA pulls out of NATO, this will send shivers across the EU member States. Another reason why the EU doesn’t want to lose the the UK.

So Jagz, I don’t hate the EU. I just don’t want Scotland to be subjugated by an organisation which demands open borders. If the SNP want an independent Scotland to join the EU, then I won’t vote for Independence. That means I am in effect voting for Scotland to stay in the UK. This would be an occasion to vote for the devil you know. NOBODY BUT NOBODY on this forum can forecast what an OPEN BORDER will do to Scotland by the end of this century.




RAVINGS AN AULD LUNATIC, AGAIN !


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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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DannyH
post 19th Nov 2020, 11:18pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 19th Nov 2020, 10:14pm) *
RAVINGS AN AULD LUNATIC, AGAIN !

Don’t worry folks. I know I have had some strong disagreements with some of you, but please believe me. I don’t associate any of you with Bilbo.

I am afraid Bilbo has become an embarrassment to this forum. I feel no anger towards him, only pity.

Danny
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JAGZ1876
post 20th Nov 2020, 12:07pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 19th Nov 2020, 07:44pm) *
So Jagz, I don’t hate the EU. I just don’t want Scotland to be subjugated by an organisation which demands open borders. If the SNP want an independent Scotland to join the EU, then I won’t vote for Independence. That means I am in effect voting for Scotland to stay in the UK. This would be an occasion to vote for the devil you know. NOBODY BUT NOBODY on this forum can forecast what an OPEN BORDER will do to Scotland by the end of this century.


First of all Danny, no EU country has ever been "subjugated" by the EU, they have all joined freely without any fear of conquest, it is a proper union of equal states, unlike the sham of a union you want us to remain with in which Scotland was "subjugated" by England.

And neither can you tell what the future holds Danny.
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DannyH
post 20th Nov 2020, 01:02pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 20th Nov 2020, 12:07pm) *
First of all Danny, no EU country has ever been "subjugated" by the EU, they have all joined freely without any fear of conquest, it is a proper union of equal states, unlike the sham of a union you want us to remain with in which Scotland was "subjugated" by England.

And neither can you tell what the future holds Danny.

Jagz, please. I didn’t claim I can forecast the future. My opinion has been formed by history which I lived through before you were born and were a wee boy.

I have stated my case. That what debating is about. We are all entitled to express our opinions. We don’t have a show of hands. We listen to each other’s opinion, then go away, and if we are not convinced by those expressing an opposing view, fine. Who the hell cares what anybody says on this wee forum.

The bottom line for me at this moment in time is. Nobody but fanatics are bothered about Independence at this moment in time. My granddaughter lives near Aberdeen. She has two young children. Like thousands of others, her husband has just been made redundant. Their top priority is Independence. Aye that will be right.

Anyway, it will come as no surprise to you that I don’t feel in the mood to continue arguing about Independence. I have stated my view on this issue. If you disagree with my opinion. Fine. All I ask from you and others is, please don’t call me a Tory, or a Brit Nat. or a hater of the EU.

My definition of Independence is different from yours. Let’s leave it like that.
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JAGZ1876
post 20th Nov 2020, 02:13pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 20th Nov 2020, 01:02pm) *
Jagz, please. I didn’t claim I can forecast the future.

I have stated my case. That what debating is about. We are all entitled to express our opinions.

Nobody but fanatics are bothered about Independence at this moment in time. My granddaughter lives near Aberdeen. She has two young children. Like thousands of others, her husband has just been made redundant. Their top priority is Independence. Aye that will be right.

Fine. All I ask from you and others is, please don’t call me a Tory, or a Brit Nat. or a hater of the EU.

My definition of Independence is different from yours.


I know you can't foretell the future Danny, it's just that you gave the impression that you expected others too when you said "NOBODY BUT NOBODY on this forum can forecast what an OPEN BORDER will do to Scotland by the end of this century".

I'm well aware of what debating is Danny.

Well that's your opinion, and you must add Brexit to that too Danny, or are EU separatist fanatics ok with you?

Your Granddaughters husbands top priority along with your Daughter won't be Brexit either, will it?

You don't want to be called a "Tory, or a Brit Nat. or a hater of the EU", which is fair enough, as long as you and others don't call me a nationalist, fanatic, dreamer etc etc.

BTW, i made a boo boo, i'm only as year younger than your Daughter.

Best wishes to you and Mrs H.
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TeeHeeHee
post 27th Nov 2020, 01:49pm
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Gerry Rafferty sang ... If you get it wrong you'll get it right next time ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt00VG7n3Kk...nnel=MeganSmith

So, get it right next time wink.gif



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55087364


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― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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JAGZ1876
post 27th Nov 2020, 07:10pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 27th Nov 2020, 01:49pm) *
Gerry Rafferty sang ... If you get it wrong you'll get it right next time ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt00VG7n3Kk...nnel=MeganSmith

So, get it right next time wink.gif



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55087364



Gerry must have been thinking of the Blue and Red Tories when he sang 'clowns to the left of me jokers to the right. wink.gif
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wombat
post 27th Nov 2020, 09:28pm
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laugh.gif stealers wheel tongue.gif


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because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

wombat thit grates oan yie.
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DannyH
post 27th Nov 2020, 11:19pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 20th Nov 2020, 02:13pm) *
I know you can't foretell the future Danny, it's just that you gave the impression that you expected others too when you said "NOBODY BUT NOBODY on this forum can forecast what an OPEN BORDER will do to Scotland by the end of this century".

I'm well aware of what debating is Danny.

Well that's your opinion, and you must add Brexit to that too Danny, or are EU separatist fanatics ok with you?

Your Granddaughters husbands top priority along with your Daughter won't be Brexit either, will it?

You don't want to be called a "Tory, or a Brit Nat. or a hater of the EU", which is fair enough, as long as you and others don't call me a nationalist, fanatic, dreamer etc etc.

BTW, i made a boo boo, i'm only as year younger than your Daughter.


Best wishes to you and Mrs H.

Thank you for your Best wishes Jags; much appreciated. Regarding your age, your still a wee boy!

I am having difficulty in responding to your question, are EU separate fanatics OK by me?

That issue has been settled. It is over and done with, just like Scotland’s Independence. Both issues were voted on. It is the SNP who have raised the issue of Scotland’s Independence, during an ongoing pandemic.

On the assumption that you heard on the news today, another retail chain is collapsing. In my opinion, the collapse of High Street shops will continue after the Coronavirus pandemic recedes. Why?Because of the power of the Internet. Thousands of jobs will go. In some ways it is history repeating itself. When I was a school boy, Glasgow was full of relatively small family owned businesses. They all disappeared, some being replaced by Asian owners, but mainly by Supermarkets. Now some of them are getting the heave because of online shopping.

So with that in mind, plus the affect Coronavirus will have on the immediate future economy, I don’t think this is the correct time to start demanding another Independence referendum.

Again, just my opinion, I think many people voted for the SNP because of the poor quality of the Opposition Parties Leaders and their lack of policies. Not because they want Independence.

Think about it. If the SNP are honest with the Scottish Electorate, during the forthcoming Scottish Parliamentary Election, they should address three issues in their manifesto.

1 Independence

2 A vote for Independence is a vote for Scotland to apply for membership of the EU.

3 Scotland’s ageing population problem.

I have added the third because that is how Nicola described my generation and the one following on from that. You are on the list.

Maybe the Coronavirus will have eliminated that problem for her.

Among the names you don’t like being called on this forum, is a “Nationalist”! C’mon Jagz, give us a break. Of course you are a Nationalist. Nothing to be ashamed of.


Danny
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JAGZ1876
post 28th Nov 2020, 11:18am
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QUOTE (wombat @ 27th Nov 2020, 09:28pm) *
laugh.gif stealers wheel tongue.gif


Give that man a coconut. laugh.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 28th Nov 2020, 11:52am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 27th Nov 2020, 11:19pm) *
That issue has been settled. It is over and done with, just like Scotland’s Independence. Both issues were voted on. It is the SNP who have raised the issue of Scotland’s Independence, during an ongoing pandemic.

So with that in mind, plus the affect Coronavirus will have on the immediate future economy, I don’t think this is the correct time to start demanding another Independence referendum.

Think about it. If the SNP are honest with the Scottish Electorate, during the forthcoming Scottish Parliamentary Election, they should address three issues in their manifesto.

1 Independence

Among the names you don’t like being called on this forum, is a “Nationalist”! C’mon Jagz, give us a break. Of course you are a Nationalist. Nothing to be ashamed of.


Danny


No Danny, those issues will never settled until Scotland regains it's independence, democracy never stands still, and people are allowed to change their minds, and it was the British nationalist parties who kept bringing up independence and their opposition to it before and during the pandemic, the SNP are only now coming round to discussing it due to public pressure.

The future economy of Scotland can only be addressed by independence, your dependence on English nationalists making the right financial and political decisions for Scotland have failed us time and time again.

I would like to see the SNP have a manifesto which made it clear that next May's Holyrood GE be a referendum for Scotland to regain it's independence, if they win then a vote can be carried out by the parliament to decide if we should dissolve the union, after all, that was all that was required to form this sham of a union in 1707 against the wishes of the people of Scotland.

And the only issue of yours that i want i want addressed is.

1. Independence.

Everything else can be addressed when we have all the powers to tackle other issues like the EU, monarchy etc etc.

Among the names you don’t like being called on this forum, is a “Brit Nat”! C’mon Danny, give us a break. Of course if you are anti Scottish independence then you are a Brit Nat. Nothing to be ashamed of.
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DannyH
post 28th Nov 2020, 12:34pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 28th Nov 2020, 11:52am) *
No Danny, those issues will never settled until Scotland regains it's independence, democracy never stands still, and people are allowed to change their minds, and it was the British nationalist parties who kept bringing up independence and their opposition to it before and during the pandemic, the SNP are only now coming round to discussing it due to public pressure.

The future economy of Scotland can only be addressed by independence, your dependence on English nationalists making the right financial and political decisions for Scotland have failed us time and time again.

I would like to see the SNP have a manifesto which made it clear that next May's Holyrood GE be a referendum for Scotland to regain it's independence, if they win then a vote can be carried out by the parliament to decide if we should dissolve the union, after all, that was all that was required to form this sham of a union in 1707 against the wishes of the people of Scotland.

And the only issue of yours that i want i want addressed is.

1. Independence.

Everything else can be addressed when we have all the powers to tackle other issues like the EU, monarchy etc etc.

Among the names you don’t like being called on this forum, is a “Brit Nat”! C’mon Danny, give us a break. Of course if you are anti Scottish independence then you are a Brit Nat. Nothing to be ashamed of.


Jagz, I voted for Scotland’s Independence at the referendum. You just don’t get it do you. I voted for Scotland to be an independent country. To hell with your definition of a ‘normal’ Independent country.
If a country is a member of the EU it CANNOT be an independent country, if for no other reason, it has no control over its borders.

You sir are completely unaware that employers who normally took on our own school leavers as apprentices, now bring in skilled EU workers. They complain there is a shortage of British skilled workers, that is why they import EU tradesmen.

Theses tradesmen come from countries like Poland, who have the largest deficit in the EU.

So your claim I am a British Nat is, because you are blinkered. Looking back through your posts, all you have done is call people like me, Brit Nats, and Tories. Why? Because you are too lazy to put forward any cohesive argument for having an Open Border. So please please tell us all the benefits of having an open border. Please don’t mention the NHS.

In the 1960’s Canada had a skill shortage in manufacturing and medical staff. They opened up offices to recruit the type of skilled people they required. Private agencies opened offices in Glasgow, such was the demand. This period became known as The Brain Drain. Thousands of skilled British people went. It was controlled emigration. Not an open border.

You would only be a schoolboy at that time.

Here is a another question. Is a vote for Independence a vote for Scotland to apply for EU membership? I won’t vote for the SNP this time around, like I did at the last Scottish Parliament election, because I don’t trust them. Any political party that can even think of Independence at this present time, don’t seem to have grasped, that we are in a War against an invisible enemy.

Speaking of enemies, I guess you won’t take the Oxford vaccine because it is manufactured in enemy territory.
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TeeHeeHee
post 28th Nov 2020, 01:24pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 28th Nov 2020, 12:19am) *
... That issue has been settled. It is over and done with, just like Scotland’s Independence. Both issues were voted on. It is the SNP who have raised the issue of Scotland’s Independence ...

Yes, Danny, the issue was swttled and it was 55%/45% for staying in the union of The Crown as it was called back its day.
However something changed and that was with the other Union, namely The European Union where Scotland voted by 68%/32% to remain in that union only to be dragged out screaming by wishes of the greater majority of England.
So being part of one union was detrimental to being part of a greater union.
Of course Brexit was backed (vocally) by Bojo's big mate in the good ol' Ameruican union of the states but he's history now.
The people of Scotland have the right, now that the lies and subterfuge of self-serving polititians has settled, to properly decide their future and that of generations to follow, now that the smoke of deception had cleared and the Westminster Mob are seen off for their meddling tactics and deceit.

Nemo me impune lacessit

Wha daur meddle wi' me?


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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