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> South Africa, Oscar Pistorius Trial!
carmella
post 18th Mar 2014, 10:46am
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I have been following this trial from its first day.

I have been curious to know what our ex-pat community now living in SA think of how this is
shaping up.



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It is possible to fail in many ways...while to succeed is possible only in one way.
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Dave Grieve
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:01am
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Hi Carmella, the mans guilty and will be found guilty, he in his own words shot an unknown person through a closed door who posed no threat to him, he also had no idea if this unknown person was armed in any way.
What he is busy trying to do is 'damage control' by making out it is a tragic accident and he did not know it was Reeva he is trying to win the sympathy vote and get off with a suspended sentence.
His advocate is doing a fair job in trying to discredit the police handling of the case but Pistorious by his own words has condemned himself.

Guilty as charged My Lady


If by some miscarriage of justice he is found innocent he will be seen as our OJ Simpson
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*Guest*
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:04am
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QUOTE
Hi Carmella, the mans guilty and will be found guilty

Is justice in South Africa not dispensed by a judge and his assistants?
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carmella
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:18am
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I haven't decided 100% yet Dave, but I'm tending more towards guilty than to anything less. At first I thought perhaps manslaughter, but at the end of the day as you rightly point out, whether he intended murder or not, if he is set free, he will be finished as this will the the OJ scenario all over again I agree.

I am only now enjoying Barry Roux's handling of his defense, although I do believe the police have made mistakes in the way it would appear they handled evidence, time will tell.

Incidentally, I watched a documentary last week about the original OJ Simpson case, and they are now thinking he was innocent of that, in fact, they're pointing the finger for the killings at his son, who was never questioned - perhaps this is just theory.

I look forward to the outcome of the OP trial, and hope that the judge reaches the right decision.

In either event, before firing a gun he should have been certain who it was being fired at - that shows his already eluded to wrecklessness.


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Dave Grieve
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:55am
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Carmella in the good/bad old days I was standing there when a policeman told a friend of mine that if he ever had occasion to shoot a K&&%$ in the back make sure to turn him over and shoot him in the chest, his defence then could be that the first shot spun him around as he was attacking and the second shot was fired so fast it hit him in the back.
The defence in that case would be self defence. one shot in the back would be murder as the attacker in the act of running away posed no threat to you.

Pistorious has no defence what so ever he admitted firing through a locked closed door, result murder, we have a lot more shootings here and I would think the majority of people living here would tell you he new what he was doing.

How many of the posters here go to the toilet and lock the door especially if it is only you and your partner in the house?


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carmella
post 18th Mar 2014, 05:51pm
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My cousin has told me so much about SA over the years, he lived there from 1972 until well into the late 90s. From all of the documentaries I've seen, from what he's told me, and a friend of mine who was born and raised, as was her husband in SA until they left to come and live here in the 90s, it seems to be a very dangereous place to live, so I have to ask myself why people live there - I don't mean to offend you Dave.

It's also a very beautiful country, I visited my cousin two or three times during his time there, and just thought it was so beautiful, a wee bit too warm for me though.

Anyway, as for the toilet thing, the only reason I could put up for Reeva locking the toilet door, was habit, and the fact that although it would appear she frequently stayed with him, it was a new relationship - really, they hadn't been going out all that long, so I was putting that as being the reason she locked the door (if you believe his initial story).

It will be interesting to see the eventual outcome. His life as he knew it is over regardless.


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wellfield
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:49pm
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Ah'...my fellow friends!...*who are we to decide*...granted he is a celebrity and that's means points on his side (don't know why)
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wellfield
post 18th Mar 2014, 11:51pm
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Oooops'...forgot to add.....American talk radio has already pinned him to the wall.
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Dave Grieve
post 19th Mar 2014, 05:32am
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QUOTE (carmella @ 18th Mar 2014, 08:08pm) *
My cousin has told me so much about SA over the years, he lived there from 1972 until well into the late 90s. From all of the documentaries I've seen, from what he's told me, and a friend of mine who was born and raised, as was her husband in SA until they left to come and live here in the 90s, it seems to be a very dangereous place to live, so I have to ask myself why people live there - I don't mean to offend you Dave.


Hi Carmella as your cousin would have told you I think up until the mid eighties suburban SA was not a violent country, the violent crime rate only started to rise when apartheid began to be relaxed and that was long before Mandela came out of jail.
Unfortunately with this relaxation came the the crooks and murders who up until that time had never been a problem, at the time of your cousins decision to leave the country we were five or six years into the new black governments rule and violent crime against whites had sky rocketed and your cousin was just one of many thousands of all hues who decided enough's enough and for what ever reason left. (incidentally we are seeing more and more coming back)

If he had stuck it out he would have seen a different country today, we still have violent opportunistic crime that often results in murder and probably have more gun shootings in a month than the UK will have in a year, but its a country in a more relaxed state of mind than in the 'siege' mentality your cousin experienced.

Why do I stay here? I love this country and only want to see it succeed, flourish and be a good place to bring up kids, whether my great-grand children will be living here at my age is in the lap of the gods.

Now they must just bring back Shrien Dewani for trial and I will be happy
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carmella
post 21st Mar 2014, 11:07pm
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Thanks for the replies folks. Thank you too Dave for filling me in, and bringing me up to date with a little bit of history.

My cousin had several reasons for leaving SA, you have outlined some, but he also had six children 4 of whom were boys, born while they were in SA, I know from conversations with him, that he did not want the boys to do their national service, and that had a huge bearing on his decision.

Wellfield - I follow the press, trials, media a lot and you're right not just in SA but also in the States Pistorius has already been found guilty.

Whether he is, or is not guilty - mud sticks, and he is, I believe, ruined either way.

I also think the prosecution at the moment are not looking good - giving a reason that they had to prepare more and needed from Wednesday until Monday, at this stage in the trial is either a cover for ineptitude, or they have just discovered the defense has some other evidence. I cannot imagine going to trial and then half way through the Prosecution saying they need more time - it beggars belief.

We will find out one way or another what this big gap has been about next week, and I can't wait.


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Dave Grieve
post 22nd Mar 2014, 05:48am
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QUOTE (carmella @ 22nd Mar 2014, 01:24am) *
I also think the prosecution at the moment are not looking good - giving a reason that they had to prepare more and needed from Wednesday until Monday, at this stage in the trial is either a cover for ineptitude, or they have just discovered the defense has some other evidence. I cannot imagine going to trial and then half way through the Prosecution saying they need more time - it beggars belief.


Try thinking that Friday was a public holiday (Human Rights Day) and a long weekend at the coast or a game reserve is more appealing than staying in Pretoria thumbup.gif
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carmella
post 22nd Mar 2014, 11:49am
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Yes Dave, I am aware of that, in fact I think it was mentioned at the time Nel asked for a break until Monday.

I just don't think so far, that the Prosecution have proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm known for reaching my own decisions closer to the end of the trial and not half way through, so I still might be wrong of course, and if so, will concede to that.

At best at the moment, I'd say this is either Manslaughter or Culpable Homicide, and not Murder. To me murder has to be proven. We know he killed her, and he's never denied this, because he can't - he was the only person in the house at the time firing a gun. It is his charge of murder I'm having trouble with, because murder is premeditated, planned - either days or weeks beforehand, or on the day itself - no-one has proved this to me yet - that's all I'm saying, and I've not missed a day of the trial.


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Dave Grieve
post 24th Mar 2014, 06:49am
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Hi Carmella the prosecution dont have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt they are going for premeditated to get a stiffer sentence, he on the other hand is trying to prove it was a tragic accident in order to get a lighter sentence.

My opinion utter garbage on his part he has no defence, before you can get a gun licences here you have to undertake examinations to prove you are fit to hold that permit the big no no is firing at someone who poses no threat to you, an unknown person behind a locked door who may or may not be in possession of an unknown weapon does not pose any threat, the man commited murder without a shadow of a doubt.

I don’t know if there is a difference in legal interpretation of the charge of murder between the UK and SA (We don’t follow the UK judicial model but the Dutch) and to be found guilty of murder here is not dependent on the accused having committed the crime with premeditation as the motivating factor.

I talk from experience in that my daughter and grandson witnessed a murder in my driveway in which a sixteen year old girl was shot and died as a result of a car high jacking.If you want to hear about police incompetency or as I prefer to call it Criminality that’s for another post and is the reason I had to send my daughter to London for two years for her own safety.
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zascot
post 25th Mar 2014, 11:14am
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Now that the e-mails have been retrieved after Pistorius saying he did not have the access passwords for his various I-Phones and the police having to take them to Apple in the states it seems all was not so Rosy in the relationship. I personally think the trial is boring but the good news is that it looks like Shrien Dewani is being sent back to stand trial, he should hire Barry Roux who will say he is not indian and was never married biggrin.gif


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Dave Grieve
post 25th Mar 2014, 12:04pm
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QUOTE (zascot @ 25th Mar 2014, 01:31pm) *
Now that the e-mails have been retrieved after Pistorius saying he did not have the access passwords for his various I-Phones and the police having to take them to Apple in the states it seems all was not so Rosy in the relationship. I personally think the trial is boring but the good news is that it looks like Shrien Dewani is being sent back to stand trial, he should hire Barry Roux who will say he is not indian and was never married biggrin.gif

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