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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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Kemedian
post 31st May 2019, 01:59pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 31st May 2019, 01:36pm) *
Would 'The will of the majority of the people' be more acceptable for you? unsure.gif

That's the same thing.

No Party can claim to have it, but they do. It changes; it's not a tangible constant force that can be owned. As it changes and the Party's claims become out-of-date then the newly formed majority of people are frustrated and are left asking 'who are these people the Party talks about?'. But what's even worse, is when a Party claims a people's will that has never materialised and was never present to begin with.

Plus, the so-called will of the people is frequently bent out of shape by Politicians in order to suit their particular agendas, which you could call a highjacking of our democratic right to freely assert and change our opinions.

Worst of all, is when a referendum result isn't accepted by a government as an instant measure of the public mood, to the extent where further referenda are required to confirm the original. If results aren't meaningful then why hold the referendum in the first place?

I've mentioned no names, but after two major referendums in Scotland and the UK the voters who swung both outcomes in their favour were left reeling when the respective governments failed to let the results influence the necessary party policy. In other words, it remained business as usual.

The situation today that we are discussing on here is far from ideal to put it mildly, instead of making progress the situation has taken us backwards, and none of the main Parties have passed the test as far as I can see.
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JAGZ1876
post 31st May 2019, 06:49pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 31st May 2019, 02:59pm) *
That's the same thing.

No Party can claim to have it, but they do. It changes; it's not a tangible constant force that can be owned. As it changes and the Party's claims become out-of-date then the newly formed majority of people are frustrated and are left asking 'who are these people the Party talks about?'. .


No it's not the same thing at all, in any election (or referendum) there is a majority will of the people, but democracy isn't static that's why we have elections every four or five years.
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Kemedian
post 31st May 2019, 08:57pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 31st May 2019, 07:49pm) *
No it's not the same thing at all, in any election (or referendum) there is a majority will of the people, but democracy isn't static that's why we have elections every four or five years.

Agreed.

The so-called 'will of the people' is transient.

Yet many prominent politicians are guilty of its misuse.



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JAGZ1876
post 1st Jun 2019, 12:18pm
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Oh dear, i thought you were above that type of thing. rolleyes.gif
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Kemedian
post 1st Jun 2019, 01:47pm
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It's one of my pet hates and it emphasises my point.

Those two leaders share the keys to the engine room of the country's current constitutional crisis.

In laying out their political mantras they both refer suggestively to 'the people' as if they could at any moment wield us weapon-like in an act of terrifying reprisal against the evil establishment. (Our First Minister likes to hammer her point home, an awful lot.) laugh.gif

Pull yourself together, Jagz. If the boot was on the other foot, or if it wasn't your venerable leader you would be laughing along as usual!
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JAGZ1876
post 2nd Jun 2019, 11:50am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 1st Jun 2019, 02:47pm) *
It's one of my pet hates and it emphasises my point.

Those two leaders share the keys to the engine room of the country's current constitutional crisis.

In laying out their political mantras they both refer suggestively to 'the people' as if they could at any moment wield us weapon-like in an act of terrifying reprisal against the evil establishment. (Our First Minister likes to hammer her point home, an awful lot.) laugh.gif

Pull yourself together, Jagz. If the boot was on the other foot, or if it wasn't your venerable leader you would be laughing along as usual!



Do you really think it's unusual for the leader of Scotland's largest party to talk about the will of the people of Scotland when the self same people keep voting for them?

What do you actually want for Scotland Kem?
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Kemedian
post 2nd Jun 2019, 12:26pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 2nd Jun 2019, 12:50pm) *
Do you really think it's unusual for the leader of Scotland's largest party to talk about the will of the people of Scotland when the self same people keep voting for them?

What do you actually want for Scotland Kem?

Did you just say that the people of Scotland keep voting for the SNP??

Thanks for exemplifying the very issue that I'm raising. What arrogance!

Carmella's point at the end of her post 4048 clearly went over your head.

As for your second question, if it's not rhetorical then you'll need to refine it just a little. rolleyes.gif
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wombat
post 2nd Jun 2019, 07:02pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 2nd Jun 2019, 11:50am) *
What do you actually want for Scotland Kem?



laugh.gif to be absorbed into britishness ? rolleyes.gif


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the mighty only appear mighty
because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

wombat thit grates oan yie.
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JAGZ1876
post 3rd Jun 2019, 09:48am
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QUOTE (wombat @ 2nd Jun 2019, 08:02pm) *
laugh.gif to be absorbed into britishness ? rolleyes.gif


That happened 312 years ago and look where we are now. yes.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 3rd Jun 2019, 09:57am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 2nd Jun 2019, 01:26pm) *
Did you just say that the people of Scotland keep voting for the SNP??


Carmella's point at the end of her post 4048 clearly went over your head.

As for your second question, if it's not rhetorical then you'll need to refine it just a little. rolleyes.gif


Who keeps voting the SNP into power if not the people of Scotland then?

No it didn't, but did most of the people of Scotland vote to remain in the EU or not?

I thought it was a fairly simple question to understand but i'll try again, since you don't share the YES campaigns future for Scotland and i hope you don't share the Brexit separatists future for Scotland, then what would your ideal vision for the future of Scotland be?
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Kemedian
post 3rd Jun 2019, 04:22pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Jun 2019, 10:57am) *
Who keeps voting the SNP into power if not the people of Scotland then?

Supporters. huh.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Jun 2019, 10:57am) *
No it didn't, but did most of the people of Scotland vote to remain in the EU or not?

We voted to remain by 62%. Then separately at the recent EU election the SNP won 38% of the vote (a low turnout equates that to just 15% of the electorate).

But how can you justify your claim from those figures that the Scottish people keep voting SNP?

Don't believe the hype, Jagz. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Jun 2019, 10:57am) *
I thought it was a fairly simple question to understand but i'll try again, since you don't share the YES campaigns future for Scotland and i hope you don't share the Brexit separatists future for Scotland, then what would your ideal vision for the future of Scotland be?

I voted to remain in both referendums as you very well know. I accept both results and I'd vote the same way again. thumbup.gif
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carmella
post 4th Jun 2019, 07:37am
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I have never voted for the SNP in my life, and I never will.

The poor voter turnout in the recent election, I believe, is down to laziness, and a smuttering of voter apathy. The recent SNP result bears this out.

One of the things I pride myself in is that so long as I have free will, there will never be a referendum, local or general election that I will not cast my vote for.

I think people who don’t vote should be ashamed of themselves, and embarressed. I also think voting in the UK should be compulsory.

Figures and hype cannot be set in stone when there is a low turnout.

We are all individual, and entitled to our own opinions. I just happen to think I am right on many fronts. smartass.gif


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wombat
post 4th Jun 2019, 07:09pm
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[quote name='carmella' date='4th Jun 2019, 08:37am' post='3739500']
I have never voted for the SNP in my life, and I never will.

I also think voting in the UK should be compulsory.






rolleyes.gif
its compulsory here carmella and all we get is a suntanned version of the same as you ,we just
voted in a new fool a cuppla weeks ago yes.gif


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wombat thit grates oan yie.
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Kemedian
post 4th Jun 2019, 08:30pm
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QUOTE (wombat @ 4th Jun 2019, 08:09pm) *
Its compulsory here carmella and all we get is a suntanned version of the same as you ,we just voted in a new fool a cuppla weeks ago yes.gif

I'm forwarding your message immediately onto the Office of Scotland's First Minister. You never know, with any luck she'll emigrate and lead a breakaway Australian state onto freedom, nationhood and EU membership!

The Ozzie sun would probably do her more good than ours, Wombat. cool.gif

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taurus
post 4th Jun 2019, 09:07pm
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dead right Wombat but we voted in that fool to keep an even bigger fool out.
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