Let's Have Our Own Referendum Now!, Should Scotland Be An Independent Country? Options

[JAGZ1876]

Hello again, JAGZ1876

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you regarding your assertion that UKIP's success is a clear warning that England is moving rapidly to being an extremely far right country.

They have genuine concern for the future of their country and they want the three main parties in England to know they are fed up with the empty promises they have been given for many years.

No matter how the vote for independence for Scotland goes, I would suggest that these are issues that the Scottish electorate will want action to be taken. The SNP seem quite happy with the current immigration controls and for Scotland to stay in Europe. Having said that, I haven't heard any strong voices being raised on these issues by any of the major political parties in Scotland. So come independence, we may see the emergence of the SIP (Scottish Independent Party) to deal with the issues that has attracted so many people to vote for UKIP.

Regards

Danny Harris

Hi Danny, you are of course quite entitled to your opinion but i have been watching the political situation in England for some time and i am becoming quite alarmed at the rate the electorate South of the border are lurching further and further to the Right, the success of UKIP on Thursday will mean ( in my humble opinion of course) that the Tories will now move even further to the right to try and regain their lost support.

In local elections any protest vote against the sitting mid term government would normally go to the main party of opposition, but this didn't happen which surely must cause concern for any Scottish labour party member or voter because my Cameron/(Johnstone)/Farage scenario is a major possibility, hopefully the Labour for independence campaigners will move up a gear and bring this reality to the attention of their colleagues, for if Scot's Labour voters vote NO next year they will have condemned us yet again to to a Tory government who will strip Scotland of the power we already have and make sure that Standard for Scottish independence is never raised for generations at the very least.

When you said,

"They have genuine concern for the future of their country and they want the three main parties in England to know they are fed up with the empty promises they have been given for many years."

You now know how we who support Scottish independence feel, except replace the word years with Decades.

Danny, next years referendum is about whether or not we take responsibility for own affairs, any other referendum on leaving or remaining in the EU or whether we retain the Monarchy or not are for the people of Scotland to decide when we have that power in our hands.

Vote YES next year

[john.mcn]

Whatever you think about UKIP, you have to admit that they have learned from history that whenever there is a crisis of capitalism which results in huge unemployment, people losing their houses, falling living standards for all it creates a huge opportunity for far right groups to take control as they engender fear of the immigrant, the disabled, the Trades Unionists, and promote a xenophobic agenda. Sound familiar?

The linking of political parties with a certain movement in the last century certainly does sound familiar and as usual it's bollox

Looking at our recent history it's the 'left' that want to stop free speech, it's the 'left' that organise illegal marches to counter legal marches, it was the 'left' that limited our rights, it is the 'left' that court the fanatics under the UAF banner.. In fact when i think about it the 'left' scare me far more than any 'right' party out there.

[farrochie]

UKIP isn't really a political party yet, it's a one-man show. But it has the potential to become a party unless the Tories can attract back the anti-EU anti-immigration voters. The first past the post system in Westminster is designed to prevent the smaller parties having a voice; well AV was rejected 68% to 32%, so no chance of a change there.

The radio discussion this morning was that UKIP are actually attracting the anti-political party vote. I'm inclined to agree with this. At Westminster level, we are faced with a privately educated, Eton and Oxford clique, both on the Tory and Labour benches. These are supported by those "elevated" to become Lords, fitted with ermine robes and provided from the public purse with good expenses.

Westminster is a level and type of government that is no longer needed by Scotland. We can manage all issues from Holyrood, and I'm sure we can do it more efficiently, and in a way that is more representative of what people here vote for.

[wee davy]

Not just anti political, but anti the Westminster model of government. This was why we finished up with a coalition in the first place.
What happened in the last election reflected the country's frustration with previous administrations making promises (manifestos) which they had no intention of keeping.
And what happened? They've just done it all over again.

I sincerely hope , if independence is realised for Scotland - they will reject a system which has favoured the 'silver spoon' brigade, for as long as it's been biased in favour of people who simply want to maintain a comfy life.
Ermine and pearls make me physically sick.

Let Scotland determine its own fate - for its ain folk!

[bilbo.s]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday...-poor-1-2920665

The Scotsman attempts a wee bit of balance for a change. Keep it up!

[bilbo.s]

...and now the Herald ! Whatever next? A new Age of Reason?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ref...otland.20985084

[wee davy]

Just disagree with,

the SNP have failed to make a vivid, engaging, day-to-day case for independence

Herald
Where they HAVE failed, is engaging in a completely non-commital NO campaign. (You can't engage with someone if they refuse to debate)

Most (if not ALL) of the 'spine' of this 'Jimmy Reid' inspired paper, is actually supported by the YES campaign, and SNP views.

Other than that, full marks!

[*Guest*]

I've heard it all now, a communist who bangs the drum for a right wing imperialist regime that has delusions of grandeur that it is still a world power your on the wrong thread Noonan there is a joke thread on GG.

Keep in mind the it is/was the communist party of Great Britain and as such does/did not regard any form of nationalism as being center to the beliefs as set out in the "Communist Manifesto", which incidentally suffered from the abuse and final denigration at the hands state capitalists in every country which adhered to the pretence of socialism, finally forming their own imperium.

[farrochie]

YES?NO at 67% to 33%. I wonder how this has changed since it was first run. Almost 1 year to go, I think the momentum is with YES.

[wee davy]

wonder how many who can still claim residency, are planning to take a trip back, September next ??

[farrochie]

wonder how many who can still claim residency, are planning to take a trip back, September next ??

As long as they are registered voters for this poll. I remember when I live in NL, I tried to get a postal vote for Scottish Parliamentary election, that must have been 2005, but I couldn't. As ex-pat I could only get vote in Westminster election.

[wee davy]

Yeah - I know about residency - I was registered for years through my gran's address - np Bit difficult now, as she is no longer with us
Lots of people will still have a similar arrangement with family.
It did'nt work through postal, as I remember trying. If still registered at an address as a resident, it should'nt be a problem.

[farrochie]

Scotsman reports that Scotland will vote YES if we are £500 a year better off on average.

Herald reported that we are £6000 pounds worse off under tories and on an annual basis "employees across the UK have lost an average of £1350 a year in real terms since 2010"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/pol...tories.21798353

It was also reported on STV that if people think tories will get in again at Westminster then we'll vote YES.

So all the signs are for a big swing to YES.

[wee davy]

The Tories will get back with a thumping majority - but not if they keep dodgy dave##=

[farrochie]

For years, I always said no to independence as I always believed in the Union (by the way I was raised and still am a loyalist). But the way this whole country is being ruined by consecutive Westminster governments has turned me round.

I am placing a load of trust on Salmond to deliver the goods. The first thing I want back, is rights over our own oil and gas reserves. Westminster sold this to foreign powers who in turn sell it back to us at inflated prices.

We have no choice in the matter now, as things will only get worse if we remain part of the UK. As say, it is a chance we take and a big gamble at that. But we could be damned if we do, and certainly damned if we don't!

Great post, Libisa.
I think many people are still struggling over this question and you hit the nail on the head with your comments on Westminster. My belief is that they have concentrated on London and the South-East to the detriment of Scotland; we have been a useful "cash-cow" to be milked of our:
Corporation Tax
VAT
Income Tax and NICs
Duty from whisky, fuel, road fund etc
and Petroleum Revenue Tax

I'd say your challenge, like the rest of us, is to enlighten a few "undecided" friends to the possibilities that an independent Scotland can offer. It's amazing when you get someone to even consider switching to YES. Good luck!