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> Commissioner Criticises Scotland's Attitude To Smacking
john.mcn
post 16th Jul 2017, 08:24pm
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Has anyone ever wondered who the hell are these people?

A quick sharp smack is an instant punishment and teaches a child where they went wrong and can bring them back under control, what do they expect parents do to a child who tries to bolt across the road in front of cars, sit them down and explain the concept of velocity + mass = a very hurt or dead child. A child understands pain before they understand language, they will only touch a hot radiator once and remember what 'burny' feels like so not only will they not do that again the word burny will ensure something doesn't get touched.

As for his view about criminal responsibility, 18??? is he having a laugh, has he never experienced a gang of drunk teenagers, does he really want them untouchable..

QUOTE
Commissioner criticises Scotland's attitude to smacking


Scotland's new children's commissioner has criticised the country's attitude towards smacking.
Bruce Adamson said the view that it was acceptable for a parent or carer "to assault a child for the purpose of physical punishment" was "untenable in international human rights terms".
A consultation is under way on a Green MSP's proposals to ban parents from smacking their children.
The Scottish government has said it has no plans to introduce legislation.
However, it added it did not support physical punishment of children.
In an extended interview with BBC Radio's Good Morning Scotland programme, Mr Adamson said that Scotland had been "routinely condemned" over equal protection of children from violence by "all of the UN human rights committees, at the Council of Europe and the EU".
He said: "There are some things where Scotland is doing very, very well and there are some things that are absolutely shocking, where Scotland is coming last in the world.
"We still in Scotland say that it's okay for a parent or carer to assault a child for the purpose of physical punishment, and that that can be justified, which is just untenable in international human rights terms.
"I think it really goes against the basic values that we hold in Scotland in terms of human dignity and respect for children.
"So it is a very strange position we are in, where the government isn't supporting the change in the law at this stage, despite consistent international condemnation."
Law on smacking
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland there is no ban on smacking and parents are allowed to use "reasonable chastisement".
However, hitting a child so hard that it leaves a mark, or causes bruising, swelling cuts, grazes or scratches could result in criminal charges.
Under Scottish law, parents can claim a defence of "justifiable assault" when punishing their child.
But section 51 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 prohibits the use of an "implement" in the punishment.
It also bans parents from shaking their child or striking them on their head.
The public consultation on smacking was launched in May, ahead of a proposed member's bill in the Scottish Parliament which aims to give children equal protection from assault.
The move by Highlands and Islands Green MSP John Finnie has been backed by a number of children's charities, as well as the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents.
A Scottish government spokesman said: "The Scottish government does not support physical punishment of children.
"We have no plans to introduce legislation in the area, but we will consider carefully the member's bill that we understand John Finnie intends to introduce.
"We continue to support positive parenting and we recognise that physical punishment can set children the wrong example and is not an effective way to teach children discipline."

During his interview with BBC Scotland, Mr Adamson also expressed disappointment at Scottish government plans to raise the age of criminal responsibility in Scotland from eight to 12, arguing that it should be "significantly higher".
He said: "The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child said 10 years ago that 12 was the absolute minimum, and that anything below 12 was absolutely unacceptable internationally.
"It is quite confusing to me that the debate in Scotland is now about moving it from eight to 12, which was the absolute minimum 10 years ago.
"I would like it significantly higher and I think there are some strong arguments for putting it as high as 18.
"But I think the real debate needs to be about where between 12 and 18 it sits - not between eight and 12."
He added: "I think it is disappointing that the government has only committed to move to the minimum standard as it was 10 years ago."


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bilbo.s
post 16th Jul 2017, 09:26pm
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zascot
post 17th Jul 2017, 03:48pm
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If there is no statute of limitation then a lot of us are going tae the chookie.
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angel
post 17th Jul 2017, 04:37pm
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QUOTE (zascot @ 17th Jul 2017, 02:48pm) *
If there is no statute of limitation then a lot of us are going tae the chookie.


biggrin.gif


I think that you maybe right zascot yes.gif , in my lifetime
I have found that the children who did not receive the
proverbial slap ??????? and then + another , were more
adjusted in there growing up and

did better in life than the kids who had parents who
took out their own frustrations on their children with more
than slaps .





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john.mcn
post 19th Oct 2017, 07:35pm
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Well it seems that those idiots in Holyrood, some of whom dont have, nor will ever have children, have decided that all those parents who give the odd smack to kids when they disciplined them are now criminals.
Kids should not get 'equal protection' because they are treated differently under the law, there is the age of criminal responsibility for one which means a child beating a younger sibling will face no charges but if a parent gives him/her a smack on the bum as punishment they could receive a criminal record.

If a child becomes a little shit who is anti social and often has run ins with the law then the Parents are held responsible for their actions and could have a parenting order placed against them, failure to comply will see the parents charged. How is this fair or equal, 'equal protection' but still punish the parents


Reading some of the comments I am glad to see that I am not alone in thinking this is idiotic. For those among us who disagree with smacking then the solution is easy, dont do it and leave those who think that a smack and even the threat of a smack is a useful tool in ensuring kids become respectful adults.
Smacking to be banned in Scotland


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bilbo.s
post 19th Oct 2017, 09:12pm
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John, I can't help wondering if you were a child who was never smacked, or one who was not smacked enough. Never mind, there's still time to remedy the situation.


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JAGZ1876
post 20th Oct 2017, 09:36am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 19th Oct 2017, 10:12pm) *
John, I can't help wondering if you were a child who was never smacked, or one who was not smacked enough. Never mind, there's still time to remedy the situation.



Definitely the latter. laugh.gif

Nice to see there's somethings we can agree on though.
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john.mcn
post 21st Oct 2017, 02:37pm
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Well it seems like some cant debate the issue and yet again try to derail topics because of their own personal problems.

Now back on topic!
No doubt that Kevin who like Jim Sillars was once the darling of the YES will now be faced with abuse from the Scottish internet mafia
QUOTE
Kevin McKenna: This ban smacks of pandering to the middle-class dilettantes


THE class war being waged by the Holyrood elite on the marginalised communities of Scotland continues. It’s not as blatant and obvious as that waged by the Westminster Government through benefit reforms; it’s a more insidious thing disguised as being “progressive” and “enlightened”. The Scottish Government’s decision to back a ban on smacking called for by the Greens represented a U-turn by an administration that had promised not to criminalise parents for smacking their children. Its previous position had been sensible: that Scottish parents were the best arbiters of what was reasonable and what was not to maintain discipline safely and securely in the home.

That the smacking ban is the work of the Scottish Greens renders this proposed legislation even more unpalatable. In the list of pointless institutions that exist in the UK the Greens hover somewhere between the Scotland-Uranus trade association and the campaign to grant tax advantages to dolphins. They exist to give Holyrood a rainbow complexion and make us feel guilty about climate change. The extent to which they are out of touch is highlighted by their aversion to aeroplanes and cars. This ignores the fact that cheap air travel and mass-produced automobiles were two of the most liberating changes in the lives of poor people in the past 50 years or so. It allowed access to distant relatives and friends that had been the exclusive preserve of rich people and royalty.

Meanwhile, if the Scottish Government tells you anything similar then your next move ought to be to seek legal advice as it will probably involve the criminalisation of you or members of your family. There are good reasons why the proposed ban on smacking is not supported by the overwhelming majority of people. It carries the risk of depleting the resources of already hard-pressed social workers in their attempts to deal with real abuse of vulnerable children. If this act of Scottish Government folly were an isolated one it would beggar belief but we have been here before with this Government in its crazy obsession with the ludicrous and unworkable Named Persons Scheme and its Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.

Is Holyrood genuinely unable to differentiate between normal, law-abiding parents gently chastising their children – often over matters relevant to their health and safety – and the actions of violent adults and child abusers? The law as it stands on protecting children from abuse is good and it works. To distort it under pressure from a boutique and inconsequential political party none of whose members has ever been democratically elected to Holyrood is sinister.

Like many other well-meaning and concerned liberals (my God, there is nothing that doesn’t concern us), I’ve been silently and helplessly appalled in supermarket queues watching some wretched and harassed mum hit her children while yelling obscenities at them. We want to intervene and afterwards, in self-loathing introspection, we reproach ourselves for having failed to do so. Rarely do we consider the chaotic circumstances in which many young and rough-looking parents may be forced to operate. They may be single mums left alone to bring up their children by a nameless father. Benefit sanctions by the Department of Work and Pensions, low-waged jobs and the ever-present threat of homelessness or coping with a drug or alcohol-addicted partner form a daily cocktail of jeopardy and despair.

So they may not have read the latest good-parenting guide issued by some Sanhedrin of middle-class behavioural specialists. They may still be trying to work out why the Government’s nice baby boxes include three packets of condoms and a poem. They won’t know what a birthing pool is and may be unfamiliar with the latest Classic FM collection to calm children. They won’t be able to afford a nanny. They’ll have elected to have children instead of a couple of designer cockapoos whose fate is to be taken with 20 other dogs to a park by a company called Paws for Effect or Tails of the Unexpected.

Yet, in the overwhelming majority of cases, their children will be loved and they will come to know the struggles and sacrifices made to keep a home together and why, occasionally, their stressed mums living on the edge felt the need to strike them instead of calming them down with whispered promises and incantations.

Like the Named Persons Bill and the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, the ban on smacking targets mainly poor and disadvantaged people. In the absence of anything since the dawn of devolution that has reduced health inequality and high mortality rates in disadvantaged communities the SNP has opted for the easy option. Instead of creating anything genuinely radical and life-enhancing for the vast majority of Scotland’s poor it has resorted to criminalising them.

Has teacher seen anything unusual in wee Wullie’s behaviour patterns recently? If so, assume the worst and contact the designated Named Person;no parental consent required. Officer, if you’ve observed any young football fans singing songs from Ireland’s history, kettle them, intimidate them, raid them at dawn and lock them up; we can look for the gangsters and the murderers another day.

Perhaps the SNP will issue the number for a helpline where anonymously you can report the next-door neighbours for smacking their poor children. The SNP seems bent on turning Scotland into a fantasy state; a holiday island for middle-class dilettantes where they can indulge their cultural fads and fetishes about how the working classes ought to behave.

They would need a sat-nav to find Shettleston or Possilpark and, if they did, they’d want to build a wall to protect the rest of us from all that smacking, all those unpleasant songs and all that swearing and anti-social behaviour. The SNP Government genuinely does not have a Scooby about the lives of real people. When Scotland gains its independence I hope it will disappear shortly thereafter.


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wombat
post 24th Oct 2017, 07:26pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 21st Oct 2017, 03:37pm) *
Well it seems like some cant debate the issue and yet again try to derail topics


tongue.gif c'mon M8 U no how it works ,England and westmister slap the scots in the chops(for wanting merr porridge) and the scots in their frustration belt their weans .easy peasy. yes.gif


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TeeHeeHee
post 24th Oct 2017, 08:39pm
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The period of childhood is a learning period which in many instances involves the "trial and error" scenario where, as John.mcn pinted out, "burnny" was noted and accepted. During this period; the forerunner to the puberty stage, young children are unaware of the concept of "boundaries" in their varied forms whether physical, moral or geographical and often push their parents to their limits which can lead to dire bewilderment for the child and, perhaps, a great deal of soul searching for the parent.
A child who might try to find how far he or she can control the parent; getting their own way, might quickly reconsider when it is pointed out in a firm and decisive tone that they have reached their limit and that any further atempt to push it would result in a skelpit bum without question.
By the time the children have reached the puberty stage, although they might consider themselves in positions now to try out their new strengths, they will at least be well aware of the ground rules.

I read an article where a mother wished that there could be a universally accepted signal that a person in charge, say, of an unruly infant in a supermarket could make to a stranger in the queue who would pick up on the signal and then with a stern voice or countenance would suddenly scold the child for it's bad behaviour.
This would have three positive reults:

1) The child would more than likely be shocked into silence. unsure.gif

2) The child's caution regarding strangers would be strengthened. ph34r.gif

3) The mother would have no requirement to skelp the child's bum in public and so have her peace. rolleyes.gif

tongue.gif


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*Billy Boil*
post 24th Oct 2017, 09:02pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 17th Jul 2017, 04:37pm) *
I think that you maybe right zascot yes.gif , in my lifetime
I have found that the children who did not receive the
proverbial slap ??????? and then + another , were more
adjusted in there growing up and

did better in life than the kids who had parents who
took out their own frustrations on their children with more
than slaps .

I take it that all those proponents of " The Slap" have made a full and exhaustive clinical study of the matter using control groups and verifying your findings with 20 year follow up of cases in point? Or is this another opinion justifying the violence you or those acquainted with you inflicted on defenceless children.

Education through violence is the last resort of an exhausted mind. I grew up in an atmosphere of "A Good Slapping" never hurt any child ( or wife for that matter ). It left me with a propensity for violence which clung to me like a shroud.
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john.mcn
post 25th Oct 2017, 10:26pm
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QUOTE (wombat @ 24th Oct 2017, 07:26pm) *
tongue.gif c'mon M8 U no how it works ,England and westmister slap the scots in the chops(for wanting merr porridge) and the scots in their frustration belt their weans .easy peasy. yes.gif



Bugger all to do with England or Westminster, this is all the Greens and SNP doing (SNP buying favours)and 'belting' your kids has been against the law for years. A smack on the backside or hand that leaves no mark will now be criminal and a parent who is only doing so to discipline and raise well mannered children could face being investigated by the police and/or social services. Now I dont know about any other sane people out there but I would rather the public services concentrate on the real abuse and criminals out there.


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Dykejumper
post 17th Nov 2017, 05:51pm
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The Scottish Govt are determined to make the smacking of children an offence, wouldnt it be a good idea to first stop immigrants selling theiir children for sex on the streets of Govanhill? the usual
subjects seem to be turning a blind eye, obviously terrified of the 'racism' tag.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotl...ated-by-police/
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john.mcn
post 17th Nov 2017, 09:40pm
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Why is this now 'news', go onto discussions elsewhere these past few years regarding the 'enrichment' of Govanhill and you will have seen talk of kids being touted for sex. The chief executive of the charity herself said it has been going on for ten years so why now do the politicians seem to give a shit.


Story from 10 years ago

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1276685...ts_Of_Scotland/


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