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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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DannyH
post 16th Jul 2017, 10:25pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 16th Jul 2017, 02:13pm) *
Bilbo's ,
better not to reply to danny ,he just keeps rattling on
forever, actually I think he has a ghost writer. :lol: :lol:



Angel, it would be refreshng if just for once you would take notice, that this topic is not about me.
For goodness sake, how about contributing something meaningful to this topic. I think by now we all get the point. You do not like me. We all know that.

Funny how you are cosying up to Bilbo. It wasn't that long ago that you two weren't the best of friends. Funny old world isn't it.

Danny Harris
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angel
post 16th Jul 2017, 11:36pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 16th Jul 2017, 09:17pm) *
http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/12506.aspx


I hope this answers your question. Trade is not a devolved matter.



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angel
post 16th Jul 2017, 11:50pm
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Thank you for that link Bilbo , it was very informative to me.

At this time I am hearing the rumblings from a nasty storm
which has been forecast in the evening news , so meanwhile
I will just quit the computer and go hide, yes.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 01:10am
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QUOTE (angel @ 17th Jul 2017, 12:50am) *
At this time I am hearing the rumblings from a nasty storm



Yes, John will be here soon. laugh.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 01:16am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 16th Jul 2017, 06:42pm) *
You have accepted the results of both referendums? laugh.gif

Promises? Saying that Scotland would need to apply to join the EU was not a promise

Simple fact is Jagz both you and the SNP want to keep having referendums until the public votes YES


Yes i have.

I never said it was.

I can't speak for the SNP but i will never give up on Scottish independence till it happens.

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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 01:25am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 16th Jul 2017, 11:16pm) *
Hi Jagz

Your ideal seems to be that Scotland must remain a member state of the EU

My vision is that Scotland would be free to do trade deals with any country in the world, without having to get EU approval.

Danny


I have never said that Danny, stop putting words in my mouth, i have said time and time again that i want independence first and foremost, any other referendums can be tackled after that.

You seem more than happy for Scotland to do trade deals with any country in the world, having got Westminster approval though.
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DannyH
post 17th Jul 2017, 10:13am
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Jul 2017, 02:25am) *
I have never said that Danny, stop putting words in my mouth, i have said time and time again that i want independence first and foremost, any other referendums can be tackled after that.

You seem more than happy for Scotland to do trade deals with any country in the world, having got Westminster approval though.


Hi again Jagz.

If I have misunderstood you , I am genuinely sorry. I don't want to get involved in anymore fueds!

Why I made my comments about our different stances, was because of my interpretation of some of your posts regarding Scotland's Indpendence and the EU.

From the quote above, you have made it clear that you want Independence first and foremost.
I thought that is why the SNP was founded. Now the SNP leadership is soley focussed on Scotland being part of the EU. Some prominent SNP politicians like Alex Neil have expressed concern about this approach. Independence and EU membership are two different issues. The basic rule in politics is that you deal with each one seperately. To deal with both at the one election is irrational. Nicola is naive. There are now rumblings to remove her husband from the post of Chief Executive of the SNP.

I think that even you will agree that up until the results of the latest General election were announced, Nicola Sturgeon was solely focussed on calling for another Independence referendum, based solely on the fact that a majority of Scots had voted to remain in the EU, whilst participating in a UK referendum. The SNP leadership wants Scotland to remain in the EU.

Now please correct me if I am wrong, I think you agreed with her stance. If I am wrong, I apologise

This means that if another Independence referendum is held, the SNP wll split those of us who want Independence. Those who want out of the EU, will vote NO. However, if the SNP put in their manifesto, that voters will be given the chance to vote for or against Scotland's membership of the EU, after Independence is achieved, then I would vote YES for Independence.

Why should any political party have the right to take us into the EU without public approval?


Regards

Danny

.

Regards

Danny
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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 12:34pm
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I do agree with the FM in that we were promised in 2014 that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to vote NO.

We can decide whether or not to hold further referendums after independence.
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angel
post 17th Jul 2017, 02:17pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Jul 2017, 12:10am) *
Yes, John will be here soon. laugh.gif


well Jagz , we did'nt get that severe storm last night
but it looks like there was lots of rain .
also I see it is your birthday . so I hope you had a great day
and I wish I was 60 again , ha ha , time is just flying by. sad.gif

I do most times look in on this thread but as I'm sure you realize
I don't have much in common with the posts on here as there
does'nt seem to be much interest one way or another
eg. about Canada or Scotland ' dare I say it , UK " smile.gif .

Anyway I will continue to look in and see just how personal
the topic of politics can become on this thread so full of personal attacks ,
when a poster does not agree with another's opinion .



By the way Jagz , this is not a personal attack to yourself ,these
are only my thoughts on this topic . Cheers Pat . smile.gif
















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DannyH
post 17th Jul 2017, 04:28pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Jul 2017, 01:34pm) *
I do agree with the FM in that we were promised in 2014 that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to vote NO.

We can decide whether or not to hold further referendums after independence.



Hi Jagz, congragulations. You are 60! I was right, you are a young whipper-snapper. I hope that your birthday goes well. I have a daughter about the same age as you, so show some respect when you post to me.

I have to admit I am not with you on your opening sentence above. Who made that promise in 2014, and what authority did they have to make it?

The problem for me regarding another referendum is, who decides and who makes up the rules?
For example, IF the UK is finally out of the EU by then, will the SNP insist that EU residents in Scotland will be entitled to vote? That is a rhetorical question.

Regards

DSanny
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john.mcn
post 17th Jul 2017, 06:00pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Jul 2017, 01:10am) *
Yes, John will be here soon. laugh.gif


Yes because that would be all your arguments crashing to the ground laugh.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Jul 2017, 01:16am) *
Yes i have.

I never said it was.

I can't speak for the SNP but i will never give up on Scottish independence till it happens.



Err doesn't your last line contradict your first?
Now if some time had past then yes, but you, Sturgeon and the SNP were shouting about another Indyref less than 2 years after the last one, that to me is not accepting the result.

You're right, you didn't say it was but then you didnt say much other than "the only way for Scotland to remain in the EU is to vote NO" which to anyone but you and the SNP is not a promise, but as i always try to find out what someone is on about when they never back anything up I searched for the phrase you posted. Lo and behold right there on the front page, the SNP website saying almost the same thing. Broken 'promises', EU, and no doubt if Jagz went further with this he would have copied them straight from this website. Anyway the 'proof' of this phrase used is linked to the Better Together website and an STV debate on 2 September 2014,where Ruth Davidson said: “I think it is disingenuous of Patrick [Harvie] to say that No means out and Yes means in, when actually the opposite is true. No means we stay in, we are members of the European Union.”. Now as the timetable for leaving the UK was 18 months then Scotland would have left the UK by the time of the 2015 election where the EU referendum bill was passed. Broken promise? only in the head of the delusional but then it's just like the SNP to precipitate an excuse for referendums based on something else, first it was we would get one if the UK voted out, now its we should get one because the public got a democratic referendum.

Now then what about the once in a generation 'promise', is that to be excused yet again as just their opinion or are we to assume its just another lie from Nicola Sturgeon.


QUOTE (DannyH @ 17th Jul 2017, 10:13am) *
This means that if another Independence referendum is held, the SNP wll split those of us who want Independence. Those who want out of the EU, will vote NO. However, if the SNP put in their manifesto, that voters will be given the chance to vote for or against Scotland's membership of the EU, after Independence is achieved, then I would vote YES for Independence.


The thing is Danny can they be trusted to give the public a referendum when they actually voted against us having one in 2015. To me I see a vote for the SNP is just a vote for the EU.


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bilbo.s
post 17th Jul 2017, 06:40pm
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Deary, deary me. Sigmund, where are you now that we need you most? sad.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 09:45pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 17th Jul 2017, 03:17pm) *
well Jagz , we did'nt get that severe storm last night
but it looks like there was lots of rain .
also I see it is your birthday . so I hope you had a great day
and I wish I was 60 again , ha ha , time is just flying by. sad.gif


Thank you Angel, i have had a very good day thanks.
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JAGZ1876
post 17th Jul 2017, 09:56pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 17th Jul 2017, 05:28pm) *
Hi Jagz, congragulations. You are 60! I was right, you are a young whipper-snapper. I hope that your birthday goes well. I have a daughter about the same age as you, so show some respect when you post to me.

I have to admit I am not with you on your opening sentence above. Who made that promise in 2014, and what authority did they have to make it?


Regards

DSanny


Thanks Danny, and i always show you respect. wink.gif

It was a major part of the Better Together campaigns project fear also used bt the three main British national parties, i'm really surprised you don't remember this.




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DannyH
post 17th Jul 2017, 10:44pm
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Hi Jagz

What you have shown in the post above, was not a promise. It was fact. It didn't scare me because Scotland is not a member state of the EU.

I don't buy into this scare mongering talk. Surely as adults we should have the savvy to make up our own minds on how we vote. If the vote goes against the way we voted, that is democracy.

The Brexit vote went the wrong way for many people, and the same scare mongering tactics have been used SINCE the result was announced. Nothing but doom and gloom.

The reality is, we are still here, doing better than predicted, but sadly, people like Nicola Sturgeon want to scupper any attempts at a settlement being reached.

If she doesn't watch it, she is going to cause chaos, and this will not help Scotland. She is getting away with these tactics, not because the Scottish electorate support her, but because of the lack of quality in the opposition parties ranks.

Danny
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