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> Glasgow: Worst Schools In Britain?, City bottom of UK qualifications league
TeeHeeHee
post 24th Sep 2011, 11:45am
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Perhaps a wee bitty off topic but I enjoyed reading this story of one complete dunce, in his own words, who has recently been awarded an OBE for his work with dik ... disk ... dicleskik ... well kids who have readin' difficulties.

Attached Image

Winkler was honoured by none other than the Queen,
who made him an honorary OBE.

Hopeless Henry ... from dunce to director.


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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GG
post 24th Sep 2011, 12:31pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 24th Sep 2011, 01:42am) *
Danny says ..."Texting is now accepted as the normal way of communicating. I know that from the number of people who write in the Texting language when they send me an e-mail via my computer".

The difference Danny between gettin' a txt message from my kids, in their 40s, and their kids - teens to 20s - from England and gettin' a sims (short message service) from my German mates is incredible.
The txt messages from England have to be decoded and the sims have to be read with a cup of coffee nearby ... all written in full and proper hochdeutsche and no spelling mistakes with every noun having it's capital letter as the language demands.

It's very interesting to hear of this cultural difference, THH. I think texting is a great medium for communicating quick and simple messages, but do worry when children especially seem to think that this mode of communication is acceptable in other mediums. Again, education is the key to establishing conventions and boundaries in young people, and if they don't receive adequate teaching then how do they know how they should act in different situations?

From the Daily Mail report I mentioned above:
QUOTE
... It also measured the literacy skills needed to cope with everyday tasks at home or work, such as filling in forms or using bus and train timetables. Britain scored poorly on both counts. It trailed in 14th place in levels of absolute literacy - well behind countries such as Germany, Holland and Canada - and ranked 13th on the second list.

The report said 35 per cent of young Britons completed their secondary education without achieving this basic standard. This was nearly double the number in Germany and more than three times the level of functional illiteracy in Denmark and Finland. ...

GG.


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GG
post 24th Sep 2011, 12:47pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 24th Sep 2011, 12:51am) *
... So to summarize, we can't compare the Glasgow education system of today, with that of the past. Everything has changed. If there is to be any hope in the future for your average working class child, we have to bring back jobs that give children an incentive to obtain. We also have to bring back the ethos of respect and responsibility. These have gone.

Great post DannyH, thanks. I think you are absolutely right about respect and responsibility. Education is widely believed to consist of three domains:
  • Cognitive: mental skills (Knowledge)
  • Affective: growth in feelings or emotional areas (Attitude)
  • Psychomotor: manual or physical skills (Skills)
As can clearly be interpreted from Glasgow's disgraceful qualifications achievement, pupils' cognitive or knowledge development is the poorest in Britain (Europe?). However, if this is replicated across the other educational domains, then what we see is children who grow into adults without understanding their own and other people's feelings and emotions. This lack of affective understanding leads, in my opinion, to disastrous consequences both for their personal development and also for the relationships they form and the communities they live in.

If we consider the psychomotor domain, if children's learning is poor here then they will lick the basic skills to function within society, from maintaining their garden through to showing their children to ride a bike.

http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html

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GG
post 24th Sep 2011, 01:32pm
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QUOTE (tamhickey @ 24th Sep 2011, 02:24am) *
... It's no wonder that young people are disillusioned by their lot right now.

Couldn't agree more, Tam. And if you look in your own area you see that the great locomotive building companies have been replaced by the likes of Tesco as employers. So much for the billions spent on the inward investment quangos and development agencies in Glasgow!

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gedboy
post 26th Sep 2011, 09:51am
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As a teacher in Glasgow perhaps I can add some experience to the debate.

Currently I am teaching in a North East Glasgow Secondary. It is easily the best school in which I have ever worked in my thirty years of paid employment. The success is down to many things, including:

1) Fantastic discipline from the Headteacher down: no homework, too much make-up or a poorly knotted tie are seen as only slightly less appalling than murder. This leaves me to get on with teaching. In other Glasgow schools I have utilised the psychological skills of a nightclub bouncer to get me through the day and done almost no teaching.

2) Supportive parents who clearly discipline their kids, telling them that schools and teachers are brilliant. The school clearly has very many poor pupils, as it takes in kids from five of the fifty poorest areas in Britain, including the poorest. However, the acceptance that the teacher is right is a principle I thought I would never see again in my working lifetime.

As a confirmed Socialist, I am firm in my understanding that poverty begets educational failure, though only to a point. I have suffered kids and parents who are aggressive in their rejection of education and do everything in their power every second of the day to prevent others learning. I have watched as kids pretended to be of low intelligence so they did not get battered. In doing so they sabotaged their own lives. However, for reasons which are not clear to me, nobody takes these parents to task.

I'm a good teacher, but I do not kid myself. Research suggests that my influence over the children is about 3%. The vast majority of attitudes and behaviours comes from parents and 'significant adults' in the family group. My kids love my lessons because they have been programmed to think teachers are great.

I could get a chicken with a limp through many exams, if only the kids do as I tell them, but this does not happen in most schools. With no home support I am dead in the water. People who don't teach possibly have a Mr Chips approach to teaching where the good teacher persuades the uninterested kid to shine. Wipe that from your mind right now.

I stupidly thought that if only I worked harder I could interest the kids and trust me, my lessons are often a hair's breadth away from cabaret. Boring I am not, but I had to admit defeat when I was puking up with stress before I went to school and then puking in the toilets before my first lesson/battle of the day.

One last comment: in the days of industry in Glasgow, the low ability kids would have ready made jobs requiring almost no written or mathematical skills in the factories of the East End. Those jobs are long gone. What do we now do with those children - who will not pass exams after their fifteenth birthdays no matter how hard they (and I) try? This is a debate that has not been started because there is an insane belief that you can keep on improving in every subject.

If only.
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TeeHeeHee
post 26th Sep 2011, 11:18am
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Welcome to the boards Gedboy. Quite a revealing post.
There's a topic here called Wee Stories From Your Work (General Chit Chat) where we'd love to read of some of your experiences biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I could get a chicken with a limp through many exams, if only the kids do as I tell them

Loved that. biggrin.gif

While in Tech Training (RAF) among the 13 classes that we went through was a 3 week course on helicopters ... which we had to complete in only 6 days. The instructor told us that if we wanted to pass the exam we had one option and that was to take everything he told us as gospel without trying to understand or ask questions (no time for answers) and to do our best in keeping good notes.
13 guys in the class and we all passed with marks around the 90s.
Mind you, we still didn't understand how they flew. laugh.gif


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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wee davy
post 26th Sep 2011, 03:53pm
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That makes two of us, THEE lol

Welcome indeed, gedboy.

I am so glad an experienced and current teacher has 'waded in' where others fears to tred. 2 things JUMP out at me. Your success very much depends upon support at home.

Secondly, young people be they academically challenged or destined to be Quantum Physicists, ALL deserve the equal opportunity to become of worth
to society.

ARE YOU LISTENING POLITICIANS???? THIS MEANS JOBS -
NOT INSANE DRIVES TOWARDS irrelevant and meaningless qualifications at so called 'higher/degree level'.

The one growth industry in this country has been extending the numbers of young people who are taken out of the unemployment equation, by a place at 'uni'. There are more 'unis' than you can shake a stick at - degree in making ninety nine ice creams aint gonna cut a rug I'm afraid.

Perhaps if we CLOSED all the so-called 'universities', and invested finance in creating jobs - we MIGHT just get ourselves out of the mess we now find ourselves in.
(I obviously dont mean ALL universities - just the pseudo ones)

Hope to hear more from you, ged wink.gif


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benny
post 26th Sep 2011, 09:19pm
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I'd be interested to know the names of these "pseudo" universities, WeeDavy, and I have every confidence that you will supply them.


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TeeHeeHee
post 26th Sep 2011, 09:36pm
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Benny, hows about "The University of Life". I've known no end of Glaswegians who've told me they learned every they've ever known there. rolleyes.gif laugh.gif


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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Scotsman
post 27th Sep 2011, 12:24pm
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Gedboy.... as a confirmed Socialist you seem to pay an unusually brief lipservice to the real effects of poverty on children and their parents but seem content to spend considerable time lambasting both groups for their behaviours.

Are you perhaps a Socialist in the New Labour mould??
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GG
post 2nd Oct 2011, 02:12pm
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Latest research, published last week, shows that Glasgow schoolchildren have the best character traits of any children in the UK when it comes to overcoming adversity and succeeding:

QUOTE
Glaswegian children top of UK 'grit scale'

Glaswegians are more likely to have determination, passion and perseverance as well as the skills needed to succeed, according to a new study.

Researchers have developed a "grit scale" to measure qualities such as working towards challenges and maintaining effort despite failure.

Glasgow was given a "grit score" of 3.16, Aberdeen came second, with 3.15, and Edinburgh joint 15th with 3.05. ...

Again, this raises the question why so many obviously very talented and motivated children in Glasgow are being let down by the city school system.

Full story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15124979

GG.


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**jean**
post 10th Oct 2011, 09:01pm
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I spent 5 enjoyable years at Govan HIgh in the 60's. I was an average student but came out of school with very little in the way of qualifications. I moved to Canada soon afterwards, started College as a mature student and after 4 years left with an Honours Diploma in Education. I taught for 20 years before retiring. I think in my case anyway, the teachers did their best but I did not apply myself, it was not til later I realized that if I wanted to acheive something , I had to work hard to get it.
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backcauseway
post 16th Jan 2012, 10:39pm
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According to to-days Herald Drumchapel High appears to be the worst school in Scotland.
School 5 years old. Most of Drumchapel demolished and areas ie Stonedyke no longer classified as an area of multiple deprivation. Other areas now green spaces. Lots of nice new shiny houses.
So why is it at the bottom of the class? Millions have been poured in compared with Knightswood School. Yet Knightswood Sec gets better results. Drumchapel has been a Labour fiefdom for many years yet things dont seem to get any better at this school. I remember St Pius on this site and amazingly it had its own school swimming pool. New shiny school - no swimming pool. Was the introduction of comprehensive education the begining of the end for what was considered a good Scottish educational system? To-days Herald makes very depressing reading regarding Drumchapel High.
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GG
post 17th Jan 2012, 09:02am
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Dave, I think it's fair to say that the Glasgow people are ourselves responsible for who gets into power. However, in our defence we should remember that in most elections in Glasgow, most of the people refuse to endorse anyone. Here's a table I made of voting percentages in the 2009 Glasgow North East by-election:

Anger/Abandonment/Apathy (ALL) (67.03%)
Willie Bain (Lab) (19.58%)
David Kerr (SNP) (6.59%)
Ruth Davidson (1.72%)
Charlie Baillie (BNP) (1.62%)
Tommy Sheridan (Solidarity) (1.27%)
Eileen Baxendale (LD) (0.76%)
David Doherty (Green) (0.53%)

As can be seen from the figures, the vast majority of Glaswegians simply do not vote – they have no confidence in the political process whatsoever. In terms of psychology, it's what's called a conditioned response: let people down often enough with false promises and poor performance, and eventually they learn to know what's coming!

GG.


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Scotsman
post 17th Jan 2012, 04:53pm
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Its the same all over the city... hundreds of millions spent on demolishing and rebuilding perfectly good public schools and our kids still have the worst education in Britain!!
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