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> My Garngad Family History, Irish families of the old Garngad
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biglad
post 28th Sep 2008, 04:26pm
Post #166

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Hi Paul,

I've got kinfolk that lived at 181 GarngadHill in the 1860s by the name of McKenna. Charles & Hannah (nee Cooney) were from Ireland but I don't know if they married there or in Glasgow, tho on each of the 5 birth records their marriage is listed as April 2nd or 5th in Glasgow but nothing is found on ScotlandsPeople. The 5 children were James, Charles, Sarah, Francis and William. Charles was the only one to live long enough to marry; the registrar for all 5 births was Peter Ferguson. Oddly enough, my bio-dad, aso named Charles McKenna was born at 27 Rosemount St., Garngadhill district, Glasgow in 1920; he died in 1984.

I've been trying to find the particular county in Ireland that Charles & Hannah were from so that I could continue adding to the tree.
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RonD
post 30th Sep 2008, 08:15am
Post #167


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What year did they get married and what years were the children born? If they were married before 1855 then it won't be listed in the civil registration as as registration didn't start in Scotland until 1855. I also looked at the census for this family and in 1871 they had a son listed on ancestry.com named "Lauge" any idea what this name is really? I have found more than one listings of names that transcribed improperly on this site. Wait I had another look through Familysearch.org and this can only be Francis born May 04 1869.


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Lena
post 2nd Oct 2008, 10:13am
Post #168

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Hi BigLad

Usually details of the childs parents marriage is listed on the birth certificate. Scottish birth certificates give more information than any other. Have you managed to get any copies of the birth certificates? I see on Scotland's People that there is only 1 Francis McKenna listed, born 1869...most likely yours. I done the search using his name, Lanark and all districts. May help by giving you additional information if you have not already got them.

I have my Grandfathers birth certificate which shows his parents married in Ireland, gives date and year of marriage and the townland or district. If you obtain more information you can go to Rootschat UK and possibly get additional help from the folks who use that site. I have found it pretty helpful.

Cheers
Lena
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Paul Kelly
post 25th Nov 2008, 05:12am
Post #169


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In post #158 I mentioned my Uncle Jack, my dad's younger brother. A former school friend of my late Uncle Jack noticed the post and has sent me an old photograph from St Bede's Primary School, Red Road, Balornock. The photo must have been taken in the late 1940s.

My Uncle Jack is on the back row far right next to the headmaster Mr Sugrue. The man who sent me the photograph - James Sullivan - is on the back row far left next to the teacher Mr Devlin. The Sullivans were neighbours of the Kellys in Avonspark Street, Balornock at the Edgefauld Road end next to Barnhill/Foresthall.

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Paul Kelly
post 20th Dec 2008, 09:51am
Post #170


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I think I have mentioned this before but it is probably worth repeating as I am still asked about it from time to time.

In the mid 1800s the streets of Garngad were described as being in the district of Springburn on birth, marriage and death certificates. Springburn was a district to the north of Garngad.

In the late 1800s, the streets of Garngad were described as being in the district of Dennistoun on birth, marriage and death certificates. Dennistoun was a district to the south east of Garngad and had very little in common with Garngad. Dennistoun was probably the poshest area in the east end of Glasgow in the late 1800s and had very few Irish immigrants staying in it unlike Garngad.

In the census forms of the mid/late 1800s, the streets of Garngad were described as being in Springburn or St Rollox or Townhead. Townhead was a district to the south west of Garngad.

It wasn't until the early 1900s that the streets of Garngad - Turner Street, Villiers Street, Bright Street, Cobden Street, Charles Street, Garngad Road, Middleton Place, Gourlay Place, Garngadhill, Tharsis Street, Rosemount Street, Millburn Street, Dunolly Street (and the newly created streets of Gadshill Street, Glenbarr Street, Rhymer Street, Provanhill Street and Earlston Avenue) - became recognised as being in the distinct Glasgow district of Garngad or Garngadhill on official documents. The problem had been that Garngad was a very small area geographically, though by the early 1900s (even after the creation of several new streets) it probably had as high a population density as any other part of the city and it also had a disproportionately high number of Irish immigrant families.

In the late 1800s and early 1900s up to 1918, Garngad was part of the Glasgow St Rollox parliamentary constituency. In 1918 Garngad became part of the Glasgow Springburn parliamentary constituency.

As I have mentioned before, in the late 1800s and early 1900s, St Rollox referred to northern Townhead (Castle Street, Parliamentary Road, Tennant Street, Kennedy Street, Hartfield Street, Stirling Road, Monkland Street, Barony Street, Glebe Street, Parson Street, Martyr Street, St Mungo Street, Taylor Street, Stanhope Street, McAslin Street (including the former Albert Street), Ronald Street, Weaver Street and St James Road), eastern Cowcaddens (Port Dundas), Sighthill (Fountainwell Road area) and Garngad.


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*Guest lena **
post 25th Dec 2008, 03:39am
Post #171






Hi Paul, just read your narrative and think you should collate the information you have and put it together in book form. I am sure there are plenty of folks when researching their kin who lived or settled in the Garngad area would find all the information you have gathered extremely helpful.

I find the information you put on very interesting and often read it out to my mother who remembers many of the names of people mentioned here. My mother came from Villiers St and like your dad she has lots of stories to tell of her life and that of her family and friends from that area.

I myself grew up in the Garngad, Earlston Avenue, before moving to provanmill in the early 60's. We left Scotland in '69 for Australia.

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Paul Kelly
post 27th Dec 2008, 10:06am
Post #172


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In my last post I mentioned that in the late 1800s and early 1900s the northern part of Townhead was in the Glasgow district of St Rollox. I have been looking a bit further into this. I have discovered that the old Townhead street of Rottenrow was the dividing line. Those Townhead streets to the north of Rottenrow were classed as being in the Glasgow district of St Rollox. Those Townhead streets to the south of Rottenrow were classed as being in the Glasgow district of Blackfriars. The district of Blackfriars actually stretched all the way from Rottenrow down to the River Clyde and was made up of the streets in and around High Street and Glasgow Cross including the once notorious District 14 (the area between the Trongate and the River Clyde which included Saltmarket, Bridgegate - Briggait - and Paddy's Market. See posts #29, #37 and #53 of the topic 'Common Irish Surnames In Scotland' for a discussion of District Fourteen). I think this Blackfriars/St Rollox division within Townhead lasted between 1885 and 1918. In 1918, Glasgow's parliamentary and ward boundaries were dramatically altered.

I am interested in the Townhead area as my grandmother Sarah Lawson McKenzie - whom I briefly mentioned in the opening post of this topic - was born in Tarbett Street, Townhead in 1896 and was brought up in Taylor Street, Townhead. Tarbet Street was to the immediate south of Rottenrow and was in Blackfriars district. Taylor Street was to the immediate north of Rottenrow and was in St Rollox district. Today, Tarbett Street and Taylor Street form part of the University of Strathclyde campus. Taylor Street still exists. However, Tarbet Street no longer exists and, looking at an old Glasgow street map, it seems that Richmond Street has been extended eastwards along what was once Tarbet Street. The part of today's Richmond Street which is to the east of North Portland Street corresponds roughly to what was once Tarbett Street.


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Paul Kelly
post 27th Dec 2008, 11:56pm
Post #173


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QUOTE (Lena @ 12th Jun 2008, 04:38am) *
Thanks Paul.

It is interesting the stuff you come across and what you find out when you are doing your family tree.

I managed to locate a number of my family on the roll though there was no listing for Middleton Place in that year. Perhaps it had been demolished by that stage.

Lena

Hi Lena.

I have been thinking about what you said about Middleton Place not appearing in the 1913-1914 Glasgow Valuation Rolls. In fact, I noticed that Middleton Place and Gourlay Place both didn't appear in the 1913/14 Valuation Rolls.

As I mentioned in post #1 and post #170, many new tenements were quickly built in southern Garngad in the early 1900s: Tharsis Street was lengthened considerably and several new streets such as Gadshill Street, Rhymer Street and Provanhill Street were created. Having looked closely at the few maps I have of the area, I think Middleton Place and Gourlay Place must have been largely or completely demolished to make way for the new Provanhill Street in the early 1900s.

http://theglasgowstory.com/valsearch.php


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Paul Kelly
post 12th Jan 2009, 10:33am
Post #174


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Garngad Square (now called Royston Square) was built in the extreme north west of Garngad in 1918 and was the first example of council houses in the city of Glasgow. James Maxton stayed in the Square from 1919 until he became the MP for the Glasgow Bridgeton parliamentary constituency (Bridgeton/Calton area) in 1922. As I mentioned in post #170, Garngad was part of the Glasgow St Rollox parliamentary constituency prior to 1918. In 1918, it became part of the Glasgow Springburn parliamentary constituency.

Jimmy Maxton never forgot his time in the Garngad, particularly the old tenemental slum streets to the east of Garngad Square and the incredibly high levels of tuberculosis and other respiratory diseases in the area. In a speech to the British Parliament in the 1920s, Maxton famously described the old slum streets of Garngad - Turner St, Villiers St, Bright St, Cobden St, Charles St, Garngad Rd - as being among the worst slums in Europe.

Maxton was described by former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill (a political adversary) as the greatest parliamentarian of his day. The current British Prime Minister Gordon Brown used Maxton as the basis of his PhD thesis at university and he also wrote a biography of him called Maxton.

I have posted the following photograph of the Garngad in 1925 before in post #121 but I was not sure of its exact location in Garngad. After taking advice from a few people including the GG poster BigArturo1, I am now sure that the photograph was taken from Provanhill Street looking northwards. The first thing you can see are the back courts of Garngad Road (Royston Road). Beyond Garngad Road, as you move from left to right (ie west to east), you can see the 4 parallel street of Turner Street, Villiers Street, Bright Street and Cobden Street each running in a south to north direction. Lastly, in the distance, you can see a big chimney in Charles Street opposite the northern entrance to Villiers Street.

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image.php?inum=TGSA05269

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/imageview.php?inum=TGSA05269

James Maxton was a hero to many of the working class people of Glasgow even beyond his Glasgow Bridgeton parliamentary constituency. I know my grandparents loved him.


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Wee-Sprokit
post 1st Feb 2009, 09:07pm
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QUOTE (Guest Maria * @ 16th Jun 2007, 05:36pm) *
#84 Andersons Dairy Earlston Avenue

I remember one day I was in the dairy & Carl Denver the country & western singer was in too see his aunty (I think she was the owner) There was a big blue American car outside, he was dressed in a pale blue cowboy style suit (Like the one's the Texan oil men wear) He also had on a big white cowboy hat on. The shop was so crowded as everyone wanted his autograph, he sang a song I can't remember the title, he also said that he knew Elvis & that he had stared along side him in Las Vagas...I don't know if that was true!!! My aunt Margaret stayed there before she moved to Pravanmill...then imigrated to Australia with her family...I think that Lena (last reply page 7 is my cousin as my grandmother was also born in Bright St.I think Turnner St or (Road) as it is now called is where the Costco's & Post Office depot is. I will check the next time I am round that way...I also knew Hugh Colins...I worked part time in the fish & chip shop Royston Rd just arround the corner from Earlston Av...I was 12yars old & also went to St Rochs Sec...I then went on to St Gerards in Govan...the headmaster @ St Rochs at the time was a Mr. Jameson my teachers name was Miss Gewer...her married name was Mrs O Neil.

I too remember 'Carl Denver' as he was once called, his real name was Gus Mckenzie, and married a Jeanie Boyle, He was in the Carl denver Trio when i knew him and played along side his brother-in-law Jimmy boyle and my uncle Dick mcleish,, he lived in Rymer St, before he became kinda famous and left his wife and son, His son was killed in a road accident many years ago,, the last i heard about him was a few years ago working in Spain doing the club scenes, he died about 2yrs ago, i doubt he ever got to meet elvis lol
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Wee-Sprokit
post 20th Feb 2009, 07:47pm
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[font="Times New Roman"][/font][size="3"][/size]Hello Joe McInally,,,, Im sure your the same joe that lived at 35, Tharsis St, ?? if i remember well you lived at the bottom of the close with your Dad Hugh, and the McQueens next door to you, i was above the Mcqueen, and our name was McLeish, there were 10 weans in my family, (6 lassies, 4 boys) my da was Tam and my Ma was hannah, Harry rodgers lived next door to us and Hugh Collins was up the stairs, along with his unlces Jackie and alex, I remember when you moved out my uncle james Stewart moved into your house, and your Dad moved to 37 Tharsis st, ?? my granny stewart lived up that Close too, she was stone deaf and we had to sign langage to her, plus there were a lot in the Stewart family, it was great to read about you Joe,, Abnd hoping it is the same Joe McInally haha!!!
QUOTE (J.McInally @ 13th Dec 2006, 09:53pm) *
Hello everybody. I found this site through reading Robert McLaughlin's site and I must say the whole route has been very interesting. I am an ex-Garngader myself, and I state here and now it will always be the Garngad to me, I never refer to it as Royston, I even address all my letters to there as Garngad ( the Garden of God ) to this day and they still get there. I was born in Rhymer St and at an early age (5) we moved to Tharsis St where I lived in the same close as the McQueens and the Collins', referred to by Robert. I ran about with Harry McQueen and Hughie Collins, the guy mentioned by Robert as being jailed for murder, as well as his uncle Alec, among others. It was ironic that when reading through Robert's site that I couldn't recall him, him stating that he had been a policeman and from Tharsis St,that wouldn't have gone un-noticed in Garngad, until he mentioned that he had lived in the Copperwork and had then moved to the flats, that's when everything came together and I realised that I had ran about with his brother Tommy. I have since E-Mailed Tommy and he does recall me and as I had praised his brother's site, he thanked me for my kind words, it was just a shame that I never got the chance to express them to Robert himself. I knew Big Willie John Monaghan and all his family, many's the times I climbed the drainpipe for Mrs Monaghan because she had left her key in the house. I ran about with and played football with his son Willie junior, I even manged to bump into him on a visit back to the Garngad to see my old man, who still resides there ( age 82 ).I stood at Celtic Park with Willie junior and the Romeos (or the Romies as they were referred to ), and willie juniors brothers James and Terry. The Faulds' that Robert mentioned as well were, I am sure, cousins of the Monaghans, and Albert is back living in the Garngad. Sad to say one of the daughters, Helen, who I also knew from my childhood. died not too long ago. My Father was brought up, and as I said, still lives in the Garngad. My Mother, who has sadly passed away, was also brought up in the Garngad, her maiden name was McDade.

To Paul Kelly, Paul thanks for another bit of history and nostalgia about the Garngad. Between you and Robert McLaughlin it has been to say the least very interesting.
Can I also add that as far as I know the wee Roch will be celebrating it's Centenary this year, I am sure.
'Bye everyone, Joe.

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*sally collins*
post 7th Mar 2009, 11:35am
Post #177






hello Paul, i came across this site trying to find out about Bright Street still existing,when i noticed your name was Kelly and your family resided at 27 villiers street,that is where my gggrandfather lived his name was John kelly who came from Donegal,my Great grandmother,Jane Kelly resided at 42 Bright street 1897 does this mean we are distantly related?
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supersal
post 7th Mar 2009, 02:39pm
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Hi there,my gggrandfather was John Kelly on his marriage register he is listed at living 27,villiers street glasgow,he also came from Donegal,i also have my great gran living at 42,Bright street,Glasgow her name was Mary Kelly are my Kellys related to your Kellys paul if they both lived at the same address
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Paul Kelly
post 8th Mar 2009, 10:30am
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Hi Supersal.

I am fascinated by what you are saying. You say you have your greatgreatgrandfather John Kelly's marriage certificate? Well, if his parents were John Kelly and Ellen Bonar, then we are from the same Kelly family in County Donegal, the Kellys of Meenavoy, Stranorlar.

As I mentioned in my introductory post to this topic, my greatgrandfather Hugh Kelly (born 1866 in County Donegal) moved to Glasgow around 1887/88 where he lodged with his older brother Willie Kelly at 27 Villiers Street, Garngad. Willie Kelly had moved to Glasgow around 1883/84 with his newly wed Irish wife Mary McGlynn. According to their childrens' Scottish birth certificates, it seems Willie Kelly and family had stayed at 23 Fountainwell Road, Sighthill when they first arrived in Glasgow. Willie had been a grave digger in Sighthill cemetery. In 1887/88 Willie Kelly and family moved to 27 Villiers Street, Garngad around which time my greatgrandfather Hugh Kelly came over from Ireland and lodged with them until his marriage to Elizabeth McCormick in 1890.

According to a Kelly 3rd cousin from County Donegal whom I met over the internet, my greatgreatgrandparents John Kelly and Ellen Bonar/Crampsey had at least 11 children and that 3 of the sons - John, William and Hugh (my greatgrandfather) - moved to Glasgow as young men. Willie was about 5 years older than Hugh and I think Willie and John were about the same age. According to my Irish 3rd cousin, John Kelly died young in a work related accident in Glasgow, leaving a wife and a young daughter. I have no idea where in Glasgow John had stayed - though Garngad seems likely - or the names of his wife and daughter.

Supersal, when exactly did your greatgreatgrandfather John Kelly stay at 27 Villiers Street and where and when did he get married? I have never bothered checking who was staying at 27 Villiers Street in the 1881 census as I know Willie and Hugh moved to Glasgow in 1883/84 and 1887/88 respectively. I have no idea when John came to Glasgow. I will check the 1881 census for 27 Villiers Street the next time I buy units for the scotlandspeople website.

Paul
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supersal
post 8th Mar 2009, 11:39am
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hello paul,John Kelly,married Jane Mcdonald in the district of st.Rollox 1878,they were both registered living at 27 Villiers Street Glasgow 1878,his fathers name was John Kelly but i cannot decipher his mothers name but it does look like too many letters for Ellen,John and Janes daughter was Mary Kelly(my greatgrandmother)she was born 1880 .it does seem a bit strange if they are not related but lived at the the same address.although they were living there some years previous to your Kellys.
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