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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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john.mcn
post 25th Jun 2017, 07:57pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 25th Jun 2017, 06:49pm) *
I take it you don't watch/listen to television/Radio news or political shows either?

35 seats out of 59, i'll take that any day of the week, like i say, the support for indy will rocket as the Brexit shambles plays out.

You'll take a 33% loss any day of the week? The SNP have peaked, independence has peaked at this time. Sturgeon going on and on about a topic most people got sick of hearing about got played out at the election, a 1/2 million drop in votes.
QUOTE
Two months on and you're still trying to convince yourself the Tories won in Scotland. laugh.gif

There was no separate election in Scotland, this is the big thing you are missing. The SNP might have won 35 individual seats but that amounts to hee haw, they dont have a coalition because they have pee'd off the other 3 parties, if they retained their seats then the Tories could not form a government.This is the realisation that is going to hit voters, especially those who previously voted SNP in 2015 who then voted Labour for Corbyn, if they want a Labour government then you vote Labour. Without Scottish seats the Tories would have less seats than in 2010

QUOTE
And as your poll has barely 50,000 after a year even with the might of the combined British nationalist parties then perhaps you should have signed it, unsure.gif


Well the Indy 2 one was a massive 7,222 votes after a year clown.gif
https://www.change.org/p/2nd-scottish-indep...ocation=minibar


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JAGZ1876
post 26th Jun 2017, 10:08am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 25th Jun 2017, 08:57pm) *
You'll take a 33% loss any day of the week?



Well the Indy 2 one was a massive 7,222 votes after a year clown.gif
https://www.change.org/p/2nd-scottish-indep...ocation=minibar



If they keep winning more seats than the other parties in the Westminster FPTP system then yes.

You do know that poll has closed for the simple reason that Holyrood democratically voted to hold a second referendum? laugh.gif

You really do miss out on a lot by shutting yourself off from the rest of the World John.
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john.mcn
post 26th Jun 2017, 06:36pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 26th Jun 2017, 10:08am) *
If they keep winning more seats than the other parties in the Westminster FPTP system then yes.


Ahh how quick the calls for PR disappear when they win some, no doubt if they lose more we'll start to hear the PR chants again.
QUOTE
You do know that poll has closed for the simple reason that Holyrood democratically voted to hold a second referendum? laugh.gif

Remind me again when in 2016 that was? Or do you mean the vote in March of 2017. So your point that this petition was started one year ago but only had 7,000 signatures because it closed 3 months ago... errrr ok rolleyes.gif
QUOTE
You really do miss out on a lot by shutting yourself off from the rest of the World John.


well I dont miss out on the Foolty towers comedy with you and Senior seņor resident here


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bilbo.s
post 26th Jun 2017, 06:42pm
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Ooooooooh! More abuse! How much more can a poor old man take? tongue.gif


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Kemedian
post Y'day, 01:57pm
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The long awaited speech:

QUOTE (Sturgeon @ Today)
The people of Scotland should have a choice at the end of Brexit...

There is no doubt the Scottish Government has a mandate to do so...

We will not enforce the legislation at this moment...

We will issue a timetable at the end of the Brexit process...

Brexit...

Brexit...

Brexit.

Meanwhile, she and the Yes Movement will "continue to make the argument for independence".

So, what did she reflect on? What has changed??

What a ridiculous show of Politics at its artificial worst. She has become a parody of herself; the Plastic Premier. Her supposed period of reflection was nothing more than a tactical retreat. Who now should trust this mealy-mouthed fanatical First Minister.

Farcical.
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bilbo.s
post Y'day, 02:24pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 27th Jun 2017, 03:57pm) *
The long awaited speech:


Meanwhile, she and the Yes Movement will "continue to make the argument for independence".

So, what did she reflect on? What has changed??

What a ridiculous show of Politics at its artificial worst. She has become a parody of herself; the Plastic Premier. Her supposed period of reflection was nothing more than a tactical retreat. Who now should trust this mealy-mouthed fanatical First Minister.

Farcical.

Your words are very apt. Just a pity that you are confusing the First Minister with the Prime Minister. Easily done - it's all semantics, first, prime. tongue.gif




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mcfergus
post Y'day, 05:47pm
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It appears that First Minister Sturgeon will have some help in framing a case for Independence.Perhaps a billion pound bribe to the D.U.P will not go unnoticed by the electorate.
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john.mcn
post Y'day, 06:46pm
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Well it was a 'bung' to Northern Ireland, not the DUP and as far as I'm aware Sinn Fein also welcomed the money.
The DUP also extracted some benefits for all pensioners living in the UK, the triple lock pension was to be reduced as per Government policy but that policy has been dropped at the insistence of the DUP. No doubt some here will not be happy and refuse this and send the money back as they do with all UK funds laugh.gif

Personally I dont think the Tories need the DUPs signature to be in government, there was no way in hell the DUP would support Corbyn so if they abstained on any votes the Tories would still win them. What it does though is ensure that all legislation passes and the UK EU 'deal' gets passed, this allows the government some leeway in dealing with the EU negotiating team and they dont appear weak.

One thing that is a bit confusing about all this is those who are screaming Barnett, well isn't the City deals outside barnett too and the Scottish cities are getting substantial funds from Westminster (and Holyrood) for infrastructure developments.


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bilbo.s
post Y'day, 06:47pm
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QUOTE (mcfergus @ 27th Jun 2017, 07:47pm) *
It appears that First Minister Sturgeon will have some help in framing a case for Independence.Perhaps a billion pound bribe to the D.U.P will not go unnoticed by the electorate.


Alas, it will go unnoticed or ignored by many. How this can be either legal or democratic is beyond me, but then many things are thus. In the absence of any official protest, are we to assume that everything is hunky-dory?


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john.mcn
post Y'day, 07:13pm
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A bit late after todays announcement that sturgeon will not talk about another ref for a bit, but still relevant.


as you can see in the comments he is not liked by some ref re-runners, odd that they read and comment on a 'yoon media' site that they cannot stand
QUOTE
Sillars: Sturgeon needs to stop "grandstanding" and drop the PR gimmicks


NICOLA Sturgeon has harmed the SNP by putting “short-term PR gains” ahead of its long-term strategic goals, according to the party’s former deputy leader.

Jim Sillars said the First Minister should stop “grandstanding” over Brexit and a second referendum and work consensually to secure more powers for Holyrood instead.

Writing in the Herald, Mr Sillars also said the UK would be “daft” to give the SNP government a seat in Brexit talks, as it had shown itself to be a “potential cuckoo in the nest”.

The stinging attack comes as Ms Sturgeon prepares to set out her next steps for a second referendum in light of the SNP’s worst general election reversal in almost 40 years.

The party lost 21 of the 56 seats it won in 2015 and its vote share fell from 50 to 37 per cent, as the Unionist parties gained seats in a backlash against her referendum plan.

The First Minister is expected to push back a referendum until well after Brexit talks conclude in late 2018 or early 2019, but leave open the possibility of a new vote by the 2021 Scottish election, when her mandate to hold one expires.

She is due to speak at a conference in London today titled “Brexit - the road ahead”.

However she promised in March that she would tell MSPs her plans first, suggesting a statement to Holyrood tomorrow or Thursday.

Mr Sillars, who was SNP deputy under Alex Salmond in the early 1990s, said it had been “painful” to watch the party “self-inflict an electoral wound” by demanding a referendum most Scots didn’t want.

He said threatening Brexit legislation by withholding a legislative consent motion (LCM) at Holyrood would also be “a serious mistake” and “further self-harm”.

Ms Sturgeon has demanded her government have a seat on the UK’s Brexit negotiating team, with a view to keeping the UK, or at least Scotland, in the EU single market.

But Mr Sillars, who backed Leave, said that was a lost cause, as Ms Sturgeon had sided so strongly with Brussels after the Brexit vote.

He wrote: “Making Scotland Brussels’ insider friend may have pleased many of my fellow party members, but meant that when hard confidential negotiations get underway, the UK Government would be daft to invite a potential Brussels cuckoo in the next.

“A short term tactic which played well in Brussels, fell flat in London, which is where Scotland really needs leverage.

“Sadly, short term PR gains leading to longer term strategic losses have been a marked feature of the Sturgeon leadership. Indyref2 was the classic example.”

He also said Ms Sturgeon erred by joining the Supreme Court action over Brexit last year, when the court ruled Holyrood could not veto Brexit by withholding an LCM.

He said if the First Minister had kept out of it, there would still be a useful uncertainty over whether a veto was possible.

“Instead, another line in the sand was washed away, leaving future threats looking increasingly empty and hollow.

“The time for grandstanding is over. Scotland’s interests will be best served by building a wide consensus of national support for powers presently held in Brussels to come to Edinburgh, powers that can help our economy to grow.”

Former Scottish cabinet secretaries Kenneth MacAskill and Alex Neil have also advised Ms Sturgeon to park a second referendum because of its unpopularity with voters.

However in a newspaper column yesterday, Ms Sturgeon stuck by her rationale for a second referendum, saying Brexit, in whatever form, would be deeply damaging to Scotland.

She wrote: “Whatever deal is reached, Brexit will be enormously damaging when it comes to jobs, investment and all our living standards. And I fear that will become clearer now with every week that passes.”


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Kemedian
post Today, 11:52am
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QUOTE (mcfergus @ 27th Jun 2017, 06:47pm) *
It appears that First Minister Sturgeon will have some help in framing a case for Independence.Perhaps a billion pound bribe to the D.U.P will not go unnoticed by the electorate.

It's the politics of minority governance. Deals cost money, for example Scotland's budget benefited from the following.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailyrecor...ter-9747723.amp
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Dykejumper
post Today, 02:20pm
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That was the electorates fault for not giving the Selfie Queen a majority
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bilbo.s
post Today, 02:35pm
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 28th Jun 2017, 04:20pm) *
That was the electorates fault for not giving the Selfie Queen a majority




You got it right for once, but we won't expect a personal apology any time soon. This "Selfie Queen" stuff is becoming a tad tiresome, as I see umpteen more fotiz of Theresa, Roof, and Kezia every day, and that is something worthy of complaint.


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