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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow News Blog _ Was Thatcher Death Party Inappropriate?

Posted by: GG 12th Apr 2013, 06:21am

A party in George Square immediately following the death of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has been replayed on news outlets around the world. Critics of the those who attended the 'Thatcher Death Party' claim that the celebrations were inappropriate, bringing shame on the city. In defence of the those who celebrated the death of the 'Iron Lady', other commentators highlight the massive, ongoing damage inflicted on the people of Glasgow as a direct result of the former PM's policies, which many claim directly targeted the working classes.


GG.

Posted by: DavidT 12th Apr 2013, 07:37am

The George Square 'celebrations', like the party by Liverpool FC supporters were not spontaneous. It has been planned and publicised on social media ever since the Mogwai record and probably before that. In other locations throughout the British Isles and beyond the celebrations just sprung up. The woman forgot the rule about keeping her enemies nearer. She alienated whole sections of our communities. The deep seated hatred of the woman hasn't just appeared. A lot has been said about the age of some of the party goers. Everyone was and still is affected by what she done.
If the George Square party seemed OTT. I don't think we've seen half of it. This coming Saturday will see an anti trident demo. It may turn out to be a little busier than it would normally be. London too will see an anarchist rally on Saturday. Funeral day is unlikely to see much in the way if quiet dignified respect.
I wasn't there dancing. I won't be going to Saturday's do either. On Wednesday I will not even switch the tv on.
I can't condemn these revellers.

Posted by: *Geo* 12th Apr 2013, 07:38am

Look at the ages of those attending, in my view any excuse for demonstration. The woman did bad but she also did good. Name a PM who was all good! Death is something that should never be celebrated.

Posted by: albageorgia 12th Apr 2013, 08:12am

If these people celebrating in George square are Scotland's future then god help us, they are pathetic

Posted by: donald a 12th Apr 2013, 08:16am

I'll celebrate when all the Lab Con Thatcherites are out of power. Vote YES!

Posted by: CAMPSIE 12th Apr 2013, 08:20am

Strange how people forget the state our country was in when Margaret Thatcher over, held to ransom by the trade unions, and yes it was painful for a lot of people, but it could not continue. This country ALWAYS without exception gets into a mess EVERY time the Labour party takes control and the Tories are left to make good on all that is wrong and if not done overnight then the blame lies with them. Right now I feel saddened that people could be so undignified over someone's death no matter what they thought of her and her policies, especially those who we not even born, just goes to show that hatred is learnt.

Time for this country to get though with people who CHOOSE not to work and use the money saved for housing needs and our elderly. Because this country is a democracy they are entitled to show how they feel undignified and disrespectful though it might be.

Posted by: MCSCOTTY 12th Apr 2013, 08:58am

Not a fan of Thatcher at all she did some terrible things that deeply divided and affected people but to be fair a lot of what she did was needed (a lot was brutal) but it was done too quickly with little thought to how it affected people but the celebrations were imho out of order and attended by a large percentage of folk not even born when she was PM - If at times she showed little dignity does not mean we shouldn't respect her death if not her politics (although the TV coverage has been OTT and no need for such a lavish funeral 10m and we are all told to cut back?)

Posted by: lubbock 12th Apr 2013, 09:00am

It was a disgusting show those who attended should be ashamed one guy in his 50's said he hoped " she died in agony"what kind of man says that?

if this is an example of how socialism conducts itselfs then what chance have they of ever reaching out to the public.And those who blame Thatcher and her Goverment for evrything,remember labour has controlled Glasgow for over 70 years and we still have people living in slum property ,kids going to school hungry people in their 30's who have never worked oh yes labour can hang it's head in shame if the lefties are looking to blame anyone...

Posted by: farrochie 12th Apr 2013, 09:01am

Thatcher's impact was not restricted to Scotland or the UK. A good example was the impact on Cambodia.

Does anyone think there are "reasonable" elements in the Khmer Rouge. Does anyone believe that the UK government should have supported and trained the Khmer Rouge?

Watch the Pilger video, as Mrs Thatcher's role is discussed, Lord Brabazon is interviewed and a Foreign Office official interrupts and won't let the interview continue.

You can scroll in to the start of the interview at 31 minutes if you don't want to watch the whole video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJxUk1CFdtc

What should our attitude be to the UK leadership who supported the Khmer Rouge?

Posted by: crunchiebags 12th Apr 2013, 09:06am

I personally think the George Square revellers where celebrating the death of something far greater than the person that was Maggie Thatcher. They were celebrating the demise of an ideologist and her cronnies who ruthlessly and without compassion drove their reforms through parliament in the 1980's. Scotland, in particular, has an axe to grind with the Tories (not just Thatcher) imposing the Poll Tax upon us a whole year before the rest of Britain! Ask the people of Liverpool or Yorkshire if the George Square party was inappropriate. And if I were Campsie I wouldn't be too worried about the people who CHOOSE not to work, I'd be more anxious about the bankers lining their pockets with fat (1.5 M) pensions.

Posted by: chas1937 12th Apr 2013, 09:11am

QUOTE (albageorgia @ 12th Apr 2013, 08:29am) *
If these people celebrating in George square are Scotland's future then god help us, they are pathetic

Reason being is that their not getting proper education and therefore most of these idiots are on benefits of one kind or another.Do you think if they were too lose a days pay if they worked they would have been there. DEFINITELY NOT

Posted by: Scottish Anna 12th Apr 2013, 09:21am

I agree with Campsie, the behaviour in George Square was appalling. Other countries must be shaking their heads in disbelief. I wonder how many of those celebrating would cope with the conditions we had to in the seventies? Queuing for bread while the bakers couldn't churn it out fast enough, no heat or lighting unless you had a coal fire IF you could get coal (we lived near an old railway line and would dig to try and find fossils to burn) candles were scarce, but my brother was a butcher so we used lard to make candles, so dangerous and the smell, ugh. As for the rats? everywhere! The country needed a strong Prime Minister and we got one. I wonder how this bunch of leaders would cope with these conditions? They just want to be everyone's friend. What we need is someone with balls, oh, she's dead.

Posted by: Old Sail 12th Apr 2013, 09:26am

Her policies were feudal and she bore no shame for her statement that "the people in Liverpool and Bradford relish their lives in squalor" and her contribution to Britains poverty.

Posted by: jimmystreet 12th Apr 2013, 09:34am

Regardless of your political affiliations or beliefs, in death as in illness, a person should be capable of compassion and behaving with dignity. I would think many of those involved would not have been either born or able to vote during the Thatcher years therefore may be reliant on the information and bias of others. Whilst I personally have no belief or confidence in any political figures regardless of their party, I certainly would not wish to be represented or associated with people who were not capable of behaving themselves in an appropriate manner. The people of Glasgow must be mindful that they have been governed as a city by the same group for many years and issues of prosperity, wellbeing, education and good housing for everyone is not always in the best interests of those who are reliant on the votes an oppressed and downtrodden society. Perhaps self interest is served before any public interest. There are plenty of celebrity do-gooders making a nice living on the backs of the poor and needy. Where would they be in a thriving, vibrant society without a cause to take up on the suffering of others?

Posted by: Ayeyuya 12th Apr 2013, 09:40am

Illegal Republican march outside the Barrowlands to 'celebrate' her passing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1egw0XxyA

Posted by: Eddie McFadyen 12th Apr 2013, 09:42am

Express your revulsion at Thatcherism and Conservatism at the ballot box. Even this opponent of Thatcher is uncomfortable at the glee being expressed by people who have not examined the issues.

Posted by: Guest 12th Apr 2013, 09:50am

Their behaviour is totally disrespectful and it makes me ashamed to be Scottish. Most of these troublemakers didn't look old enough to even know who MT was! Just another pathetic excuse to behave appallingly and I don't think the media should keep going on about it as this is just what these morons want!

I'm not an MT fan but I certainly would not behave in this way and show myself up like

Posted by: amclpreston 12th Apr 2013, 10:07am

QUOTE (Scottish Anna @ 12th Apr 2013, 09:38am) *
I agree with Campsie, the behaviour in George Square was appalling. Other countries must be shaking their heads in disbelief. I wonder how many of those celebrating would cope with the conditions we had to in the seventies? Queuing for bread while the bakers couldn't churn it out fast enough, no heat or lighting unless you had a coal fire IF you could get coal (we lived near an old railway line and would dig to try and find fossils to burn) candles were scarce, but my brother was a butcher so we used lard to make candles, so dangerous and the smell, ugh. As for the rats? everywhere! The country needed a strong Prime Minister and we got one. I wonder how this bunch of leaders would cope with these conditions? They just want to be everyone's friend. What we need is someone with balls, oh, she's dead.

I remember the 3 day week early in the 70's. I wasn't a striker, but recall it all as a bit of an adventure. With no real hardship, because it was for a rather limited time and people helped each other out.

I also remember the "Every man for yourself" attitude that Thatcher brought, and the very direct effect her policies had on my working life.

I agree that celebrating the decline of an elderly woman would have been inappropriate. However, upon her death I cannot in any way condemn celebrations, or parties. Thatcher didn't give two hoots about the communities she just about destroyed. Celebration of her death is completely right.

Posted by: *rab hay* 12th Apr 2013, 10:08am

Absolutely disgraceful, also why are there Irish republican flags there, still hurting after the 9 prisoners killed themselves and blamed Maggie?

Posted by: shugie 12th Apr 2013, 10:51am

They look a bit young and also they should show a bit of respect for some one that the people voted for.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Apr 2013, 10:58am

QUOTE (crunchiebags @ 12th Apr 2013, 09:23am) *
I personally think the George Square revellers where celebrating the death of something far greater than the person that was Maggie Thatcher. They were celebrating the demise of an ideologist and her cronnies who ruthlessly and without compassion drove their reforms through parliament in the 1980's.

But her ideology is still alive and kicking, Blair and Brown's governments embraced Thatcherism, it was the basis for New Labour, to appeal and become electable to the voters of middle England, and Cameron and Osborne are going to make the Thatcher years look like a Golden age, the only way to protect Scotland from the ravages of Tory rule whether that be from the Tories themselves or Tory Lite (New Labour) is to take control of our own affairs, vote YES next year.

You have been warned.

Posted by: Mathieson 12th Apr 2013, 10:59am

Even posing the question as to whether it was inappropriate was inappropriate in my humble opinion.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Apr 2013, 11:04am

QUOTE (Ayeyuya @ 12th Apr 2013, 09:57am) *
Illegal Republican march outside the Barrowlands to 'celebrate' her passing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1egw0XxyA

Yes, and the majority of them will be voting NO next year along with their fellow unionist flute blowing Irish brothers in the Orange lodge.

Morons.

Posted by: marion L 12th Apr 2013, 11:05am

Power makes one so evil and I believe she was a driadhful snob miles away from reality. She is gone and well despised by so many.... Can't believe she has had the support from the others who walk in her shoes... We have to fight for justice for many follow her.....

Posted by: john.mcn 12th Apr 2013, 11:12am

Jagz i have had discussions with people who want a United Ireland, even if the people there vote against it but talk about Scotland and they are as Unionist as the DUP.. Only in Scotland rolleyes.gif

Posted by: stratson 12th Apr 2013, 11:19am

Do not agree with "PARTY" .

Instead, use your vote wisely next year and vote "YES. for Scottish Independance thumbup.gif

Posted by: DavidT 12th Apr 2013, 11:34am

QUOTE (stratson @ 12th Apr 2013, 11:36am) *
Do not agree with "PARTY" .

Instead, use your vote wisely next year and vote "YES. for Scottish Independance thumbup.gif

I agree. I only found two unnecessary words in this post.."not" and "instead" thumbup.gif

Posted by: Harrymc 12th Apr 2013, 11:39am

As a Glaswegian who has lived for many years on Merseyside I am thoroughly DISGUSTED by the antics of the so called protests/celebrations many of whom were not even born when Maggie Thatcher was in power.The decent folks in both these great cities would not wish to be in any way associated with these morons.

That said,I endorse what CAMPSIE and others have said previously and would just like to ask ; if what she did was so bad why did Blair,Brown and the rest of what poses as the Labour Party these days spend 13 years in power changing nothing?

Posted by: john.mcn 12th Apr 2013, 11:56am

Maybe people want to go back to the days of no choice Harry, no choice in electricity or gas supplier, if you wanted a phone line you had to go with BT who would also control the internet and mobile phone signals.
The sell offs did go too far though, bus de-regulation and the Trains privatisation was wrong imho, they should be a trust and run on the behalf of the public, not shareholders or the people working there.
My first home i bought was an ex council property, something myself and hundreds of thousands of people couldn't do without her, many of us once on the property ladder then went on to other properties creating jobs for the industry and plenty of money for the council/tax man through tax, tax and more tax. Thatcher was wrong on a lot of things and some of her policies were too harsh and quick, for that i think blame can also sit at a certain union leaders feet, but she did change some things for the better.

Posted by: Guest 12th Apr 2013, 12:22pm

I would not celebrate this woman's death but I will not be sorry. She caused a lot of the problems that we are facing today with her selfish far right policies that put 95% of our wealth into the pockets of a privileged 5%.

Posted by: Ryasco 12th Apr 2013, 12:37pm

In view of the harm that she done not only to Scotland but the working class people of England, Scotland and Wales, she ruined the lives of many working class people, some never to work again as their livelihood was destroyed. Not only that she turned Britain into a greedy grasping country that it is today.

Ryasco

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Apr 2013, 01:14pm

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 12th Apr 2013, 12:13pm) *
Maybe people want to go back to the days of no choice Harry, no choice in electricity or gas supplier, if you wanted a phone line you had to go with BT

Don't forget you were put on a waiting list when you applied for a telephone to be installed.

Your experience in post #24 mirrors mine John, as i mentioned on a previous thread......Go figure wacko.gif

Posted by: tarheels 12th Apr 2013, 02:32pm

I MAY LIVE IN OJAI CALIF. BUT WHO AMONG YOU COULD HAVE DONE BETTER , CHEER'S MS THATCHER.

I MAY LIVE IN OJAI CALIF. BUT WHO AMONG YOU COULD HAVE DONE BETTER , CHEER'S MS THATCHER.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 12th Apr 2013, 02:44pm

QUOTE (Mathieson @ 12th Apr 2013, 11:16am) *
Even posing the question as to whether it was inappropriate was inappropriate in my humble opinion.

Don't humble yourself ... you are right.

Posted by: D. H. 12th Apr 2013, 02:47pm

Totally disgusted by this behaviour. Even when opinions are polarised, politics should be conducted in a reasoned and civilised manner. I notice that most of the people attending these "parties" would not even have been born when Mrs. Thatcher was PM... they are just malcontents who have no place in a civilised society. However, if this is the behaviour to be expected by some Glaswegians then my wife and I shall re-consider whether to continue our frequent visits for extended weekends in Glasgow. These yobs bring shame upon the city of Glasgow.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 12th Apr 2013, 02:49pm

QUOTE (Ayeyuya @ 12th Apr 2013, 09:57am) *
Illegal Republican march outside the Barrowlands to 'celebrate' her passing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1egw0XxyA

Pity the cameraman didn't have much of an idea either. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Jimmuck 12th Apr 2013, 02:55pm

We have the same 'scum' over here, demonstrating for every socialist cause, I figure they get slipped a few bob for attendance, pity they didn't put in more attendance at school they might have picked up an education and mebbe a wee job or two??

Those demonstrators are just malcontents who sit on their duff all day yapping about 'how they'd change the world' Ha! Ha! go change your diapers ya eejits!

Somebody posted that people 'live in squalor because of Maggie's policies' BULLSHIT! that's just the way they choose to live china, like bloody pigs ... remember your 'clatty neighbours'?? sure you do!

I've been 'down' a few times in my life, but mainly because of mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse, but my good Scots examples (my Dad never missed a day of work in his puff!) I picked myself up and got back into The Dance!

The Unions over here in Canada are bringing this country to the same state the U.K. was in when Maggie took them on.

Can you imagine having 'Sick Days' in your Contract, then, if you don't get sick?? you can Bank those days and GET PAID FOR THEM?? Socialism in Extreme or Effin Madness! OH! and these are the laziest bazzas (J.M.O.) in the world, Teachers ... Joe Taxpayer pays for their luxuries, scumbags.

Ah'm awa tae feed the wee burds!

Posted by: D.H. 12th Apr 2013, 03:06pm

QUOTE (Ryasco @ 12th Apr 2013, 12:54pm) *
In view of the harm that she done not only to Scotland but the working class people of England, Scotland and Wales, she ruined the lives of many working class people, some never to work again as their livelihood was destroyed. Not only that she turned Britain into a greedy grasping country that it is today.

Ryasco

Mrs. Thatcher achieved much for the whole of the UK...EEC Rebate, defending the Falklands, curbing the power of marxist-led unions out to destroy Britain, extending home ownership via council house sales (thereby reducing the number of families needing subsidised council owned homes) etc. Like anyone, she also made mistakes but on balance she was a force for much needed change. It is true that some communities suffered the consequences of change, but this was inevitable...eg mines have a finite life...and in any event the more proactive vibrant communities have long since recovered. Only the die-hard modern-day Luddites still moan about their lot instead of doing something to improve it. There have been many governments in power since Mrs. Thatcher resigned (including the Blair/Brown governments) and it is ludicrous to keep claiming that any of today's ills are down to Mrs. Thatcher. Mrs. Thatcher did not "make" people greedy or grasping...that is down to individual morals which have been in steady decline since the 60's.

Posted by: Moderate 12th Apr 2013, 03:26pm

Even after over a decade of Labour government, the dogmatic dyed-in-the-wool hard left continue to blame Margaret Thatcher for any and every problem in today's society. They would do well to make a long hard study of the facts, but no doubt they are so brain-washed that they see every Coalition action as outrageous and every Labour action as commendable. Those who publicly danced and rejoiced at the death of an old lady who had dedicated her life to improving Britain bring shame to our country (and also the City of Glasgow) in the eyes of the world.

I really hope that most of the demonstrators can be shown to be simply embittered political agitators and not typical of the vast majority of Glaswegians. The city should dissociate itself from such tasteless actions which only serve to demonstrate the true vile nature of those who took part. Regrettably, I suppose this is the unacceptable face that must be endured by decent citizens in a free society.

Many of these vile "party-goers" were simply anarchists and subversive far left groups. Most of them are callow youths who know nothing of the Thatcher years or her real achievements, but simply gormlessly use anti-Thatcher rhetoric. They are the professional protesters who turn out to support any anti-authority cause. They fail to appreciate the country they live in which gives them the freedom to conduct their tasteless and pathetic behaviour.

I trust that the watching world recognises them for what they are and does not associate them with the folk of Glasgow.

Posted by: Makem 12th Apr 2013, 03:31pm

QUOTE (tarheels @ 12th Apr 2013, 02:49pm) *
I MAY LIVE IN OJAI CALIF. BUT WHO AMONG YOU COULD HAVE DONE BETTER , CHEER'S MS THATCHER.

I MAY LIVE IN OJAI CALIF. BUT WHO AMONG YOU COULD HAVE DONE BETTER , CHEER'S MS THATCHER.

Sadly, Mrs. Thatcher was much more appreciated and respected by people abroad (where she ranks as a towering figure in modern politics) than by many of her fellow countrymen. History will bring a truer and kinder appreciation of her achievements.

Posted by: Irene Maltman 12th Apr 2013, 03:59pm

I havent lived in Scotland for many years although I have not become an American citizen so I feel my loyalties are still with the country of my birth however I think that the young people who danced in the streets did for the wrong reasons. I wish they would use their energy in protesting injustices that are happening at this very moment in other parts of the world. It seems to me that they were just out there wanting attention, like little children "being bad". It saddens me to hear that Glasgow is still a very cruel place, when I return to Scotland, I doubt that Glasgow wii see me.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Apr 2013, 04:36pm

QUOTE (tarheels @ 12th Apr 2013, 02:49pm) *
I MAY LIVE IN OJAI CALIF. BUT WHO AMONG YOU COULD HAVE DONE BETTER , CHEER'S MS THATCHER.


How about the 5.2 million who presently live in Scotland?

Posted by: gracebarrett 12th Apr 2013, 06:44pm

I also hated the Thatcher years but its history and we should leave it at that what she did can't be mended but we can hold our heads up and say we got through it ,some loved her more hated her but we should never be anything but dignified so it made me angry to see Glasgow on tv for all the wrong reasons and most of the so called party were out to shame us and at what cost ( give Glaswegians a bad name ) mud sticks . I for one say don't buy the papers don't put on the tv let them bury the woman and get it over with we have more than that to worry about these days ,so to all you Glaswegians lets move on and to those who held the party ,shame on you it did Glasgow no favours at all .

Posted by: droschke7 12th Apr 2013, 07:07pm

All these complaints about the party in George Square, what about the parties in Bristol, London and Liverpool to mention just a few. People should stop with the Mia Culpa and realise that the majority of people didn't like her or what she stood for, and they should also realise that David Cameron is carrying on her policies.

Posted by: Guest 12th Apr 2013, 07:09pm

Mrs. Thatcher was an inspiration to the women of this country, ignoring glass ceilings and prejudice and achieving the highest position in the land. She is acknowledged as one of our all-time great PM's. She trounced the hopeless hard-line left wing marxists and communists who infested our unions and they have never forgiven her. They could not resist her in life and so now, in death they seek mindless "revenge".

Mrs. Thatcher imposed desperately needed reform on these dinosaurs for the sake of our country...and if they seek to return to their old ways they will rightly become extinct. We need fair and sensible unions, not bigoted hard left prejudice and political clap-trap. Mrs. Thatcher laid firm foundations to curb destructive and non-democratic union power and ensure that the country cannot again be held to ransom by self-serving union barons with marxist tendencies masquerading as champions of the people.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Apr 2013, 07:20pm

QUOTE (droschke7 @ 12th Apr 2013, 07:24pm) *
People should stop with the Mia Culpa and realise that the majority of people didn't like her or what she stood for, and they should also realise that David Cameron is carrying on her policies.

And of course you will vote NO next year droschke7 giving Cameron a mandate to do just that.

Is it just me?

Posted by: Guest 12th Apr 2013, 07:21pm

No coal miners dockers steel workers amonst them. The ones thats supposed to hate her. They where all just rent a mobs looking for excuses to offendpeople and get on the telly. and just beacuase it happened in England to dont make it right!

Posted by: Alex Saville 12th Apr 2013, 07:23pm

Good for them! Thatcher deserves all the vitrol she gets.
Respect for her is not compulsary, it has to be earned. She didn't earn any here or in any working class area.
Isn't this a Democrecy?
Are people to bow down to those think she should not be judged on her performance?
If any of you want to kiss her bahookie, thats up to you. Thats your choice, other's though, like those in George Square, are entitled to their's.

She introduced choice in the sale of Gas & Electricity? Funny how my gas is still delivered by Scottish Gas although I pay Scottish Power. So how much of that is creamed off by S/Gas before they sell it to S/Pr?
They dont cream off some? I dont think so!
Same with electricity, so S/Pr dont cream off some when they sell to E-on and others? Do me a favour!
The railways are supposed to be 'Free Enterprise'. So how come the taxpayer pays for the trains?
Made abroad, of course.

Those abroad who look on Thatcher with Rose Tinted Glass's didn't have the misfortune to be here when she was in action. If they were, how come they left?
As to the poster who referred to the George Square party goers as "Scum", by your own admission you had drug & alchohol problems. Maybe those in George Square think your "Scum".
I you dont like Canada, leave! dont think you'll be missed!

Posted by: vic123 12th Apr 2013, 07:31pm

if the tories thought that much of thatcher they would have not stab her in the back to get rid of her and be afraid to say her name. you would think they would pay for her funeral as the have all the money from ripping of the poor. who said these people were socialist as they may come from well of family's who's mother and father have retired early and who are know ripping the rest of us of by claiming for things they don't need.

Posted by: farrochie 12th Apr 2013, 07:42pm

Was Thatcher's support for the Khmer Rouge lead us to sorrow for her, or should our sympathy go to the Cambodians who continued to suffer as a result of Westminster policy.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-thatcher-helped-pol-pot/5330873

QUOTE:
"In 1991, I interviewed a member of “R” (reserve) Squadron of the SAS, who had served on the border. “We trained the KR in a lot of technical stuff – a lot about mines,” he said. “We used mines that came originally from Royal Ordnance in Britain, which we got by way of Egypt with marking changed . . . We even gave them psychological training. At first, they wanted to go into the villages and just chop people up. We told them how to go easy . . .”"


Pilger's video should be watched by those interested in recent history and the part played by the UK government of the time under Thatcher.
http://vimeo.com/16496040

Posted by: john.mcn 12th Apr 2013, 08:28pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 12th Apr 2013, 07:40pm) *
She introduced choice in the sale of Gas & Electricity? Funny how my gas is still delivered by Scottish Gas although I pay Scottish Power. So how much of that is creamed off by S/Gas before they sell it to S/Pr?
They dont cream off some? I dont think so!
Same with electricity, so S/Pr dont cream off some when they sell to E-on and others? Do me a favour!
The railways are supposed to be 'Free Enterprise'. So how come the taxpayer pays for the trains?
Made abroad, of course.

Kellogs still make the cornflakes but i can decide to buy them from Tesco or Asda, be grateful there is competition because without it the price you would pay would be far higher.

Scottish power and British Gas still own, and are responsible for the upkeep of the pipes/power lines and they will probably charge a fee for the use of them, likewise the powerstations will charge a wholesale price to whoever, who them adds their charges before charging the customer. It's hardly creaming off, if you feel you are being ripped off there is nothing to stop you buying your power from SP or gas from SG, thats the great thing about choice. I suppose you would want to force us to buy fuel from BP too?

I noticed you omitted BT, surely that was the most successful sell off creating competition, driving prices down and quality up. Without private finance we wouldn't have fibre optic networks keeping us up with the rest of Europe, without private investment Britain would have been a 3rd world in the internet world and the e-firms would avoid this island like the plague..

Posted by: grannymo 12th Apr 2013, 08:43pm

To celebrate the death of what she stood for, is fine. To celebrate the death of the person, someone's mum, is not.

Posted by: Alex Saville 12th Apr 2013, 09:06pm

John

I notice you didn't mention PFI?
Private Finance that rips off the taxpayer, where hospitals are built and rented back to the taxpayer at grossly indecent profit's.
The Sky Bridge cost over 20 times its value to the taxpayer, all to the benefit of The Bank of America.
Of course, the Tories, who believe in free enterprise, quickly sold the ferries over the Kyle so the BoA didn't have any competition.
BT brought 'Efficiency' and 'Flexibility' to it's employees. Thats Company talk for, 'We work you harder and pay you less!'.

How about the NFC ? (National Freight Corporation)
When the Tories sold them off they gave them all the inner city land that belonged to British Road Services, National Carriers (The old BR delivery system), Pickford's, Hoults, Forth, Caledonia, et al! The company went from making little profit to making plenty virtually overnight.
How did they manage that?
They managed that, not because the companies suddenly made money, but because for years after they sold all the inner city land at premium prices to developers. Land that was owned by the state but the profit went to the NFC and its shareholders.
Good Tory (And Thatcher ) virtues!

As for the energy companies, well, they certainly uphold the free market virtues, don't they?
Grossly obscene (And greedy) profits are par for the course for them. Thats been a boon to ordinary folks in this cold winter.
Thats better than Nationalised gas & electric?
Alex


Posted by: wombat 12th Apr 2013, 09:11pm

huh.gif how many of your weans were or were involved wie arms dealers grannymo ? yes.gif


mibbe we should start a thread on arms dealers and their cohorts/customers ,folla the money trail ,wunner if they have "shareholders"? death merchants.

Posted by: john.mcn 12th Apr 2013, 09:57pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 12th Apr 2013, 09:23pm) *
John

I notice you didn't mention PFI?
Private Finance that rips off the taxpayer, where hospitals are built and rented back to the taxpayer at grossly indecent profit's.
The Sky Bridge cost over 20 times its value to the taxpayer, all to the benefit of The Bank of America.

Of course, the Tories, who believe in free enterprise, quickly sold the ferries over the Kyle so the BoA didn't have any competition.
BT brought 'Efficiency' and 'Flexibility' to it's employees. Thats Company talk for, 'We work you harder and pay you less!'.

I didn't mention PFI because i dont agree with it but also that it was Major who brought it in, the Sky Bridge was started in 1992. As a road/car tax payer i'm dead against tolls, add to the fuels taxes we more than pay for the right to use the road network without extra costs on top.

BT is a service, thus its employees have to be flexible to its customers needs. You dont get Asda shutting doors after 5 on a Friday and not re opening till 9am on a monday, if the customers want the service when they're at home not work the company has to abide, why should someone lose a days wages when they're buying your products?

QUOTE
How about the NFC ? (National Freight Corporation)
When the Tories sold them off they gave them all the inner city land that belonged to British Road Services, National Carriers (The old BR delivery system), Pickford's, Hoults, Forth, Caledonia, et al! The company went from making little profit to making plenty virtually overnight.
How did they manage that?

They managed that, not because the companies suddenly made money, but because for years after they sold all the inner city land at premium prices to developers. Land that was owned by the state but the profit went to the NFC and its shareholders.
Good Tory (And Thatcher ) virtues!

Never heard of it but after a google it was sold to the employees, generally people work harder when they own a stake, look at John Lewis.

QUOTE
As for the energy companies, well, they certainly uphold the free market virtues, don't they?
Grossly obscene (And greedy) profits are par for the course for them. Thats been a boon to ordinary folks in this cold winter.
Thats better than Nationalised gas & electric?
Alex

After our bill for the winter was several hundred 's i'm not too happy at the price of home fuel but are you saying if it was state owned it would be cheaper??

Personally i dont slam profitable companies if their success is down to being... errr successful. If they were making a large profit on a unit of leccy that would be different, but they're not. The 'obscene' profits is down to them selling a lot of their product. If i made an item and had 1% profit margin but sold a bazillion of it, its not obscene because of its success, certainly not when in retail and engineering the markup is usually 100% .

BTW dont take my defence of these things as supportive of Thatcher, it's not.

You can add the sale of the Clyde/Forth trusts to sell offs i disagree with.
Although not Thatcher i disagree with PFI or whatever Labour called their version, they're reign has truly mortgaged us up to the eyeballs for decades to come. The Public purse should cut its cloth to what fits, i want lots of things in my house and for the area but i'm realistic as to what can be paid for, i wish politicians thought the same.


edit, oops meant 100% markup, to be honest i've seen 1000% markup just so someone can be given a 'discount'

Posted by: *Frankie* 12th Apr 2013, 11:18pm

Mrs Thatcher was the worst thing that happened to Scotland and the North of England. Her policies are still creating havoc today. We are now paying sky high energy bills because all the energy sources are privatised. There is no real competition in the privatisation of companies that she forced through. At the end of the day BT is still the main wholsale supplier of telephony, British Gas is still the main wholesaler of gas and the National Grid is still the wholesaler of electricity. The only private people who did well in privatisation are the ones who could afford to buy shares and make a quick buck by reselling them to the banks and financial institutions based in South East England. We all know what these parasites have done and not been brought to boot for.

As America and the free world celebrated the killing of Bin Laden, Saddam and other terrorist leaders then I believe that we should celebrate the passing of the wicked witch.

Posted by: *Frankie* 12th Apr 2013, 11:21pm

Why should my taxes pay for her funeral. Let the Tory party and those who think she was so great pay for her funeral. I would have preferred and unmarked grave which is the norm for convicted criminals of her type.

Posted by: Guest 13th Apr 2013, 08:27am

Get a life, folks. Don't pander to the press and keep going on about her. Less said, soonest forgotten. Lets celebrate by forgetting this one, if not her legacy.

Posted by: GG 13th Apr 2013, 09:50am

QUOTE
Thatcher death: Radio 1 will play death song clip

THE BBC will not play a full recording of Ding Dong the Witch is Dead – a song from the film the Wizard of Oz – pushed up towards the top of the UK charts by opponents of Baroness Thatcher, on its flagship Radio 1 programme on Sunday.

The song has reached number three in the official singles chart after an online campaign encouraged critics of the late prime minister to buy the single. Nearly 29,000 copies of the 1939 track had been bought by yesterday, compared to 40,000 sales for Duke Dumont, who was on course to be number one.

The corporation said the campaign to make Ding Dong the Witch is Dead number one was “distasteful” and that the song would not be played in full.

Instead, the station will air a news item tomorrow explaining why the song is in the charts, during which a five-second clip will be played. ...

Full story here:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/thatcher-death-radio-1-will-play-death-song-clip-1-2891944

From the Herald today:
QUOTE
Police monitor anti-Thatcher protest groups

Police are monitoring groups who plan to hold parties in Edinburgh and Glasgow tonight to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher amid fears they may escalate into violence.

More than 350 people had pledged to attend a demonstration in Glasgow's George Square while a separate event was being organised on social media for the Mound in Edinburgh.

One attending the "celebration" in Glasgow wrote online: "We can't let this event pass without a celebration. Bring sound systems, effigies to hang from lamp posts, food, drink."

A spokesman for Police Scotland said: "We are aware of these events and they will be policed appropriately."

GG.

Posted by: Alex Saville 13th Apr 2013, 10:42am

Censorship at the BBC! Whatever happened to Democracy?
Ben Cooper of the BBC says he finds the campaign distasteful.
He (And others) don't like the idea that 'The Little People' are making a political point by supporting the song.
No, we cant have that. Where would it end?
Politicians might have to pay attention to what 'The Little People' are saying. No we cant have that, can we!
The BBC is supposed to be impartial. It's not there to make decisions for the population.
If 29,000 people have supported the song, then the BBC should wise up and accept the decision.

I find 'God save the Queen' distasteful because it contains a verse with the words 'Rebellious Scots to crush'.
As do a lot of Scots.
Will Cooper ban the anthem being played for longer than 5 seconds (As he says will happen with the Witch song) or is there different rules for different people?
Cooper should resign for his blatant censorship.
He wont, of course.
Alex

Posted by: john.mcn 13th Apr 2013, 11:12am

Would you support the famine song being played on national radio if released and people bought it ?
The BBC are supposed to be non political but we know thats a crock, if a song was released celebrating the death of Bin Laden they wouldn't play it in case it offended some nutter let into the country in the last few years.
Celebrating her death in George square was, looking at the age of most of them, a pretty pathetic attempt attempt to get on the news, take a look people these are our future politicians... Buying the single, well they say a fool and his money are easily seperated, how about to make a bolder statement would be to donate the cost of the single to a charity that helped the people affected by government policies. But of course Hamish, Tarquin or Jemima the couldn't go to Uni on Monday and show people pictures of George square or the song on their iPhone5.
Now what would be funny is if the record company donated all proceeds to the Tory party biggrin.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 13th Apr 2013, 11:47am

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 12th Apr 2013, 07:40pm) *
... As to the poster who referred to the George Square party goers as "Scum", by your own admission you had drug & alchohol problems. Maybe those in George Square think your "Scum".

And maybe not.
If they knew that even from faraway Canada he answered the call to help a desperately frightened old grannie; livin' her last years in fear and terror of her thieving drug and alchohol abusing neighbours in a Glassgow Tower Block, by continuing, and with the help of other board members, to bombard the councillor responsible to get off her erse and do something about this old lady's desperate plight; probably while the real "scum" out there were lookin' for their next reason to party.
Jimmuck's efforts were successfully too, I might add. wink.gif

Posted by: serabash 13th Apr 2013, 12:31pm

Aye a wid like tae see him saying that tae jimmucks face laugh.gif there are a lot of brave folk on thre net. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Alex Saville 13th Apr 2013, 03:46pm

serabash
I have the courage of my convictions. If he was in front of me I would say it.
I think what I say and I say what I think.
Maybe you've noticed thats my name on the post. I don't hide behind a non de plume like some of the brave folk here.
Like you.

As someone who lives in a close with people who have a drug and alcohol problem, no, thats not right, it's the other 9 tenants in the close who have the drug and alcohol problem.
Those that cause it don't care about the other 9.
In my opinion, those people are scum. I'm not the only one in this close that thinks that.

Whats more, if he thinks people who were at the George Square event are scum, why do you think they might not think he is scum?
Just for your benefit, I reproduce what I said:-
"As to the poster who referred to the George Square party goers as "Scum", by your own admission you had drug & alcohol problems. Maybe those in George Square think your "Scum".
As far as I'm concerned, if anyone wants to throw verbal bricks at others, they shouldn't be surprised if a few come back to them!

As for myself, totally unrepentant! With big broad shoulders!
Alex

Posted by: rossmckenzie 13th Apr 2013, 03:52pm

Behaviour was a disgrace.....its politics like Stratson if you disagree with Westminster,be it Thatcher,Blair,Brown,Cameron then make your choice in 2014 and end the Union...somehow doubt those people partying in George Sq have a scoobie about why they were there or the consequencies,Whether you agreed with Thatcher or not she stood up for all she represented I hope all Scots do the same next year but somehow I doubt it.I respected the lady for her convictions,never wavered be they right or wrong cannot say that about many politicians today

Posted by: Alex Saville 13th Apr 2013, 04:01pm

John

You might find this hard to believe, but Andy Mack, of Bluewater Radio, Hanover, Ontario, Canada, has played requests from both sides of the blue/green divide, for ex-pat Scots.
Whats more, his programme is syndicated throughout the world
If you google 'Sounds of Scotland show' you'll find the show and can listen online. I cant guarantee when you would hear them.
The show is also broadcast on St Johns Hospital Radio, West Lothian.

My point about the BBC is that here is a song that is prominent in the charts, I read that 29,000 people have bought it to put it where it is.
Is that not a political statement? Or are these people not entitled to their view?
As I pointed out, will they now not play God Save the Queen' as it's offensive to many Scots.

I'm not into this blue /green divide. As far as I'm concerned your religion is (Usually) an accident of birth.
I never ask folk what they are, it's none of my business. Life is too short for that nonsense.
Alex

Posted by: serabash 13th Apr 2013, 04:51pm

alex I am not hiding behind a non de plume but when I joined the board I noticed that's what others do and thought that was the norm, but I can assure you I am not in hiding. jimmuck happens to be a good friend of mine and yes he did have addiction problems but as he has been clean for over 30 years I believe he has proved himself. not that he needs to. he voiced his opinion on a crowd of nameless eejit's but you attacked him personally , but that say's more about you than him.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 13th Apr 2013, 05:02pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 13th Apr 2013, 04:03pm) *
... I have the courage of my convictions. If he was in front of me I would say it.
I think what I say and I say what I think.
Maybe you've noticed thats my name on the post. I don't hide behind a non de plume like some of the brave folk here ...

Alex, Jimmuck has often shown us in his Posts that he is called Jimmy Reid by Name and since he lives in Canada one can assume that he's a Jimmy Canuck.
He would more than likely admit to having been among the scum of the earth, in his past life, which would put him in good authority to recognise other scum when he sees it.

Speaking your mind and saying what you think or feel is well in order ... but applies to Jimmy as much as it does to you. wink.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 13th Apr 2013, 05:11pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 13th Apr 2013, 04:03pm) *
Maybe you've noticed thats my name on the post. I don't hide behind a non de plume like some of the brave folk here.
Like you.

Alex, you spouted the same guff to me a while back, as serabash said when you join GG you notice most people use non de plumes as it causes less confusion than you would get if their were a dozen Alex's or half a dozen David's etc, and my views wouldn't change whether i used my real name or not.

Anyway how do we know that Alex Saville isn't your non de plume?

Posted by: serabash 13th Apr 2013, 05:16pm

he canny be jimmy saville, he's deid laugh.gif maybe he's his brother. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: john.mcn 13th Apr 2013, 05:27pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 13th Apr 2013, 04:18pm) *
John

You might find this hard to believe, but Andy Mack, of Bluewater Radio, Hanover, Ontario, Canada, has played requests from both sides of the blue/green divide, for ex-pat Scots.
Whats more, his programme is syndicated throughout the world
If you google 'Sounds of Scotland show' you'll find the show and can listen online. I cant guarantee when you would hear them.
The show is also broadcast on St Johns Hospital Radio, West Lothian.

My point about the BBC is that here is a song that is prominent in the charts, I read that 29,000 people have bought it to put it where it is.
Is that not a political statement? Or are these people not entitled to their view?
As I pointed out, will they now not play God Save the Queen' as it's offensive to many Scots.


I'm not into this blue /green divide. As far as I'm concerned your religion is (Usually) an accident of birth.
I never ask folk what they are, it's none of my business. Life is too short for that nonsense.
Alex

Political statement or as i said people jumping on the band wagon, buying a single from itunes or HMV is as political as voting for someone on Big Brother/X-factor/Celebrity. People have the single, they can listen to it because they have it, anyone who jumps up and down greeting because their pathetic little 'protest' didn't get them attention should just... well i'll get an infraction but i guess you'll know what i mean..
As i said they could have really sent a message by using social media to do a collection, then by giving that money to charity it would show that despite everything that Thatcher did some people can still be charitable ( and no i dont mean me wink.gif ), but no, those little 'straight out of uni into a political/union job' had to make us all look like complete d***s to the world media, how much damage has this done, is the likes of him the new face of protest, give me Bloody Jimmy Reid any time! (THE Jimmy Reid of course)

Alex if theres one thing i utterly despise about Glasgow it's the divide. People are wary of Islam because it's not just a religion but a force that dictates politics, education , clothes and type of worship..pffttt Glasgows been like for 100 years wink.gif

Posted by: Henke 13th Apr 2013, 07:17pm

Did any of the older members celebrate when they heard Hitler was dead?
Thatcher was an enemy of the working class and her death is cause to celebrate the end of an extremely uncaring and uncompassionate person. Long may she rot.

Posted by: Jimmuck 13th Apr 2013, 07:24pm

Haw Alex? howzitgau'in china? ah see thit ye want tae be ma bestest pal, eh?? nae borra china, ah aye'wizz want sumday tae be be ma target hauder at the Gun Club. Ye sound like a real nice, fair-minditt, objective fella thit respects everybody thit 'thinks like you' bit sh'll 'Keep an Open Mind" (that's fae ma 12 Step Program thit helps me in ma daily living china ... as well as 'There But For The Grace of God" ah'm reffering tae Ma Big Pal in the Sky Alex son, izzatt awright wae you?? ah kin hae a God Pal, kin ah please?

Anyways, ma wife telt me ah huftae turn ye doon as a 'Pal' furr ye sound like a pompous shite an' Hurrsell' being fae Nova Scotia, disnae like pompous shites! ME?? ah live amongst hunners o' thaim .. an' surprisingly, they're noa aw cawed 'Saville' bit see ah huvvanurra wee saying fae ma 12 Step Program thit say "Live and Let Live" you sound like you're 'teller' noa a 'live an' let liver' that's a shame Alex pal furr ah'm a stoating bloke tae be pals wae, bit ah aye'wizz dae whit The Missus tells me.

Noo, as faur as insinuating thit ah might be scum (in your jaundiced eyes) ah widnae recommend saying it tae ma face, bit when ah come hame oan a wee hoalidy?? ah'll defintootly gie ye the opportunity china ... furr, as ma auld sponsor aye'wiss said tae me "Don't tell me pal, show me" an' jist like him? ah like tae be shown. Noo you hurry oan doon an' get yursell a Fish supper an'en sit up therr in yurr wee hoose (or izzitt an Ivory Tower you huvv??) an' pontificate aboot yurr likes an' dislikes ...... you know best eh?

An' me, being 'scum' an'na musician? jist like thae boys thit selt 29,000 copies of their CD aboot a Witch?? ma CD "Christmas Inside-My Head" has selt hunners of copies in Glesga' (Thru Miss Anna Bain) an' aw the monies goes tae charity ... oh! ah mean 'tae REAL SCUM' XXXXXX tongue.gif

Posted by: Alex Saville 13th Apr 2013, 07:29pm

Since when is asking "Maybe those in George Square think your scum" a personal attack?
It''s a question!
He called those celebrating the demise of Thatcher scum. Is it one rule for him and another for them?
I didn't call him scum, I asked a question.
As for a bunch of nameless eejits, well, those I saw interviewed were named. As for the rest, where do they queue up for identifcation?
As for the remarks about Jimmy Savile, check the spelling. And as for your comment, I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves!
Jag, sticks and stones and all that.

Alex

Posted by: JAGZ1876 13th Apr 2013, 08:03pm

QUOTE (Alex Saville @ 13th Apr 2013, 07:46pm) *
As for the remarks about Jimmy Savile, check the spelling. And as for your comment, I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves!
Jag, sticks and stones and all that.

Alex

Now then, now then Alex, as it happens i didn't call you Jimmy Savile, clunk click every trip, this is the age of the train, how's about that boy's and girls.

Posted by: serabash 13th Apr 2013, 08:08pm

As ye said alex you say it as ye see it, so dae we. yes.gif

Posted by: Rab 13th Apr 2013, 08:36pm

laugh.gif Wasn't Rab C. Nesbitt 'Low-life SCUM and proud of it'?

Posted by: Jimmuck 13th Apr 2013, 09:02pm

Ohhhhh Alex, ....

QUOTE
Jag, sticks and stones and all that.


Are you in the same club as your namesake? "Sticks an' Stones might brekk ma bones .... bit whips an' chains sexcite me!" you devil you.

Ma wife jist made me give HER Opinion.

P.S. JAGZ1876??? want a wee bet oan the Habs an' Leafs th'night china?? winner gets tae take Alex oot tae dinner?? GO Habs! Go! LoL!

ah'm furr T.O. laugh.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 13th Apr 2013, 09:28pm

QUOTE (Jimmuck @ 13th Apr 2013, 09:19pm) *
P.S. JAGZ1876??? want a wee bet oan the Habs an' Leafs th'night china?? winner gets tae take Alex oot tae dinner?? GO Habs! Go! LoL!

ah'm furr T.O. laugh.gif

Ok Jim, i say we go one better than the last time we visited The Air Canada Centre 6-2 Habs.

Oh, and the loser takes Alex out to dinner tongue.gif

C'mon the Habs thumbup.gif

Posted by: Melody 14th Apr 2013, 07:48am

The parties were inappropriate and yet very understandable.

Posted by: Guvinjim 14th Apr 2013, 08:13am

QUOTE (*Geo* @ 12th Apr 2013, 07:55am) *
Look at the ages of those attending, i my view any excuse for demonstration. The woman did bad but she also did good. Name a PM who was all good! Death is something that should never be celebrated

Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini???????

Posted by: *Billyboy* 14th Apr 2013, 08:27am

Impartial!!! the B.B.C. ???? Where did anyone get that preposterous idea from. "Auntie" has always been and always will be the "establishment" and the ruling classes sop to those who have any adherence to what passes for democracy in "English" Britain.

Posted by: tombro 14th Apr 2013, 10:38am

How sad that the majority of people on this topic, berating a Scotsman's right to an opinion, are either 'guests' or 'ex-pats'.

The 'guests' I do not care about but I would hope that those 'ex-pats' who are extolling Mrs Thatcher's virtues actually did spend some time living in the north of England and Scotland during her 'Reign of Terror'.

Otherwise, let those who did live in those areas continue to express their opinions freely for, despite the efforts of Mrs Thatcher and her party, Britain is still a Democracy, not an Autocracy or a Despotic State.

Hitler's daughter is dead ! Let the people she abused, and their descendants, continue to voice their opinions freely.

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: GG 14th Apr 2013, 02:32pm

QUOTE
Former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher is no longer in the world of the living. The feeling among left-wing activists in Glasgow and Bristol was reportedly vituperative, as they threw street parties to celebrate her death. ...

Vituperative is a new word for me! The above is from an eloquent and balanced reflection on Thatcher's tenure as PM and, importantly, includes comment on her attitude to the blacks' struggle for freedom in South Africa from someone who was involved in attempted negotiations with her.

Thatcher was against SA change
http://www.thepost.co.za/thatcher-was-against-sa-change-1.1499898

GG.

Posted by: kickaboot 14th Apr 2013, 03:19pm

QUOTE (*Geo* @ 12th Apr 2013, 07:55am) *
Look at the ages of those attending, in my view any excuse for demonstration. The woman did bad but she also did good. Name a PM who was all good! Death is something that should never be celebrated.

I totally agree with you there. Politics always has and always will be riddled with corruption. Thatcher did plenty to upset us but as you said she also did some good. I would find it hard to believe that the likes of Blair or Cameron would have had the balls to send forces to the Falkland Islands as Thatcher did. She also faught and win a rebate of over 3 billion from the EU that Brussels is trying to claim back.

Thatcher became PM when the UK was in a total mess [much of it inherited from the previous Labour regime who did nothing to prevent the debts run up by the nationalised industries. In 1978 the taxpayer was supplying a million quid a day to British Steel. This was just to try and keep them open and not to invest.. We were buying coal from Poland for less than half the cost of mining it here so the curtains had been well drawn on our coal industry long before Thatcherism. Even today we are boosting the economy countries like China by letting them manufacture goods at about a sixth of the price it costs to do so here so thanks to that we are in another meltdown.

British industry was finished before most of us knew who Maggie was due to many decades of little or no investment in our industry. Britain was once world leaders in heavy industry including shipbuilding and locomotive building but now almost 80% of what we do manufacture is owned by non British companies which although I am no Thatcher fan I know it was not down to her that we lost it all.

Posted by: GG 14th Apr 2013, 08:49pm

A very good comment article from Ian Bell at The Herald, making the point that the young people who gathered to celebrate Thatcher's death are as well placed as anyone to understand the effects of her policies, as they are her living legacy.

QUOTE
Maggie made those young revellers' world

[...] So put yourself in the position of a younger person. Look around, what do you see? Youth unemployment is creeping towards one million again. The coalition has decided that neither word in the phrase "social security" can survive. The economy is feeding the fishes because a trillion pounds had to be found to cover bets made by poorly-regulated banks.

So who "deregulated" financial services in Britain in October 1986? Whose big bang – still leaking fall-out – was that, setting off chain reactions in investment banking, credit markets and housing? The youngsters with their amusing "death parties" don't need to know every footnote to the history. All they need to know is what they are told. They are living in Thatcher's Britain, says the Daily Mail. Is the abbreviation LOL still in use? [...]

Full article here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/maggie-made-those-young-revellers-world.20781742

GG.

Posted by: GG 14th Apr 2013, 09:03pm

From the UK Chart Show today. Ding Dong made number 2 in the chart.


GG.

Posted by: Guvinjim 14th Apr 2013, 10:41pm

Whatever else was done by that unyielding mediocre middle class matron, including the jingoistic "Falklands war" a place where the inhabitants were not even British subjects, a war fought for re election and costing near a thousand lives, her true legacy remains generational unemployment. Generational unemployment that has spawned the social morass amongst what was once the working class and divisions into haves and not only have nots but never will have.

Posted by: Jimmuck 14th Apr 2013, 11:35pm

My! My! MY I guess everyone in the U.K. is unemployed because of Mrs.Thatcher eh? or was it just those Union Yobs who couldn't keep their Jobs 'worth keeping' with their incessant demands and 'benefits' ??? well they ended up getting 'benefits.

Dear 'tombro' this is a Topic Board where 'folks' are FREE to give their opinions on day to day Topics, live and learn bushman, live and learn.

and 'Hagz Pal, sorry but you're the lucky bugger that has to take oor alex oot furr dinner "Toronto Male Leafs 5 Jazg's Montreal Canadians=1'

"Go Leafs Go!" thumbup.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 15th Apr 2013, 08:20am

QUOTE (Jimmuck @ 14th Apr 2013, 11:52pm) *
and 'Hagz Pal, sorry but you're the lucky bugger that has to take oor alex oot furr dinner "Toronto Male Leafs 5 Jazg's Montreal Canadians=1'


Sickened, i hope Alex likes Chinese laugh.gif

Posted by: john.mcn 15th Apr 2013, 08:50am

QUOTE (Guvinjim @ 14th Apr 2013, 10:58pm) *
Whatever else was done by that unyielding mediocre middle class matron, including the jingoistic "Falklands war" a place where the inhabitants were not even British subjects, a war fought for re election and costing near a thousand lives, her true legacy remains generational unemployment. Generational unemployment that has spawned the social morass amongst what was once the working class and divisions into haves and not only have nots but never will have.

Falklanders might not have been British subjects but neither were they citizens of Argentina, who thought of them as squatters.

I'm not a fan of empires nor the atrocities committed to attain them, Argentina itself is a product of an Empire where most of it's people aren't Indigenous to the Americas(Spanish/Italian if memory serves) so for them to go on about the Falklands as theirs by right is rather cheeky, maybe the descendants of the present citizens should pee off to their ancestral home and leave the land to the Native Indians.
Thatcher was right to send off the troops, she was right to give the order to sink the Belgrano and quite frankly if she had ordered the fleet to sail to Buenos Aires and blockade it to force the government for reparation payments she would have been right to do that too( imho).

We have in the past went to war with larger countries who invade smaller ones for a land grab, what Argentina did was no different to what Saddam did with Kuwait.

Posted by: Doug1 15th Apr 2013, 09:42am

Quite right John. In a nutshell if Thatcher had not been PM there would have been a lot of shilly shallying about and protests made to the UN etc but right now the Falklands would be completely and totally under Argentinian rule, that's for sure !!

Posted by: tombro 15th Apr 2013, 10:28am

You're right Jimmuck and all I did was express my opinion !

Tombro laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: *Billyboy* 16th Apr 2013, 01:48am

Some people on here seem to have a thing about "expats". In the past I have observed some cowardly remarks about "expats" as to the opinions of those "expats" having the temerity to disagree with other posters.

Posted by: GG 16th Apr 2013, 07:04am

QUOTE
Cops plan dawn raids ahead of Thatcher funeral

Potential troublemakers are to be rounded up by police before Margaret Thatcher’s 10million funeral as part of a huge security operation involving more than 4,000 officers.

Known activists will be targeted in dawn raids over fears they will whip up violence as the former PM is laid to rest in London.

Some of the 2,000 people who attended a party at Trafalgar Square on Saturday to celebrate her death were watched by police and MI5. Officers arrested 16 people for drink and public order-related offences. ...

Full story here:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-plan-dawn-raids-ahead-1832813

GG.

Posted by: Alex Saville 16th Apr 2013, 01:36pm

Whatever happened to free speech and the right of assembly?
Arresting people BEFORE any offence is committed!
Too bad they don't do that with the asylum seekers who wont go back anyway.
Wait a minute, they've got rights!
The indigenous population don't!
Alex

Posted by: Guvinjim 17th Apr 2013, 01:38am

QUOTE (Doug1 @ 15th Apr 2013, 09:59am) *
Quite right John. In a nutshell if Thatcher had not been PM there would have been a lot of shilly shallying about and protests made to the UN etc but right now the Falklands would be completely and totally under Argentinian rule, that's for sure !!

And she was ready and willing to use "the nuclear option" had she lost a capital ship or aircraft carrier.

Posted by: seamus1954 17th Apr 2013, 03:34am

I voted No to the poll with a caeveat [it was not inproper but it was in poor taste] after all It does seem that Old Maggie wasn't as bad as Cromwell, or old Eddie longshanks, BUT She did try Her best to equal them, just came up short that's All.

Posted by: GG 17th Apr 2013, 07:02am

Happening today in George Square:

QUOTE
Glasgow rally for Thatcher legacy victims

A rally to remember the “industries and communities who suffered” under Baroness Thatcher will take place within hours of the former prime minister’s funeral.

• Alex Salmond to attend funeral service at St Paul’s Cathedral in London.

• Tommy Sheridan and independent MSP Jean Urquhart to address Glasgow gathering.

• Scottish Parliament debate on Thatcher is moved

But while the service in London will commemorate the life of the former Tory leader who died last week, some of those who opposed her will hold a rally in Glasgow this evening to “remember those who were plunged into despair and poverty” as a result of her government’s policies.

As prime minister, the then Mrs Thatcher introduced the community charge, commonly known as the poll tax, to Scotland before the rest of the UK. ...

Full story here:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/glasgow-rally-for-margaret-thatcher-legacy-victims-1-2898218

From the Evening Times:
QUOTE
There is to be no official commemoration of Baroness Thatcher in Glasgow during her funeral in London.

Big Ben will fall silent in the capital today, for the first time since the funeral of Winston Churchill, to mark the passing of the Iron Lady.

But Glasgow City Council said there were no plans to fly flags on the City Chambers or elsewhere at half mast.

A council spokesman said: "That's not something we would normally do for a former Prime Minister."

The Lord Provost of Glasgow, Sadie Docherty will not attend Lady Thatcher's funeral, but it is not thought she or any other senior council figure was invited.

There remains the chance that a fresh wave of protests and "death parties" could take place across the UK today.

Plans are in place for a protest to be held in George Square later today.

GG.

Posted by: agnesb 17th Apr 2013, 07:41pm

QUOTE (tombro @ 14th Apr 2013, 11:55am) *
How sad that the majority of people on this topic, berating a Scotsman's right to an opinion, are either 'guests' or 'ex-pats'.

The 'guests' I do not care about but I would hope that those 'ex-pats' who are extolling Mrs Thatcher's virtues actually did spend some time living in the north of England and Scotland during her 'Reign of Terror'.

Otherwise, let those who did live in those areas continue to express their opinions freely for, despite the efforts of Mrs Thatcher and her party, Britain is still a Democracy, not an Autocracy or a Despotic State.

Hitler's daughter is dead ! Let the people she abused, and their descendants, continue to voice their opinions freely.

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Ha Ha Hitlers daughter LOL I love it, I love it biggrin.gif

Spot on, re Let the people she abused, and their descendants, continue to voice their opinions freely.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 17th Apr 2013, 09:07pm

Well Tom, I'm an expat who lived and worked in the UK, tho' not in Scotland, during almost all of Maggie's term in office. I finally left for good, tho' I didn't realise that at the time, in '84. In '82 I was in Germany as a sub-contracter on aircraft but received a telegram, along with a bunch of other guys on contract, requiring my services on the ocassion of the Falklands War.
This must therefor qualify my opinion on the Thatcher years; and the free expression of it ... even if I did live on the Lincolnshire coast when back in the UK. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 17th Apr 2013, 11:28pm

So it's still a hung Jury laugh.gif




Posted by: frame 19th Apr 2013, 02:52pm

Never danced on anyone's grave, never will.
However, I would pose this question:
Those people who see this woman in hell, assuming that there is such a place, where do they see themselves when it's their turn to clock out.
As for me, as long as I land somewhere that serves Scottish malt whisky then I'll call that heaven.

Posted by: tombro 20th Apr 2013, 09:55am

THH,

My comment was simply a general statement on the balance of opinions shared. I do not begrudge anyone on this forum their right to state such an opinion.

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 20th Apr 2013, 01:03pm

That's the Beauty of the Boards, Tom biggrin.gif
Frame, I'm with you on that. tongue.gif

Posted by: wombat 20th Apr 2013, 08:09pm

QUOTE
I do not begrudge anyone on this forum their right to state such an opinion.

Tombro rolleyes.gif


tongue.gif AYE RIGHT tongue.gif

Posted by: *Matt* 23rd Apr 2013, 01:55pm

This event should be held yearly me thinks! All she was to Scotland was another "LONGSHANKS". To be truthful, may she never have peace in her eternity But let us not forget the B* son she left behind in the in the disguise of a David Cameron! Beware Scotland.

"YOUR'S AYE" Matt in O.N. Canada.

Posted by: DavidT 25th Apr 2013, 01:14pm

Mr. Dennis Skinner on Mrs. T.


Posted by: GG 25th Apr 2013, 08:48pm

Brilliant! Thanks for posting this, David.

How come it is only the oldest Labour members of parliament who are able to speak so eloquently, passionately and empathetically about the working classes? Kind of a rhetorical question! mellow.gif

GG.

Posted by: Guest 25th Apr 2013, 09:10pm

Denis Skinner a real labour man and not like the wimps there are now.

Posted by: Scotsman 26th Apr 2013, 11:02am

You calling Ed Milliband a wimp?? biggrin.gif