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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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Dykejumper
post 20th Apr 2017, 05:27pm
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Danny, no EU country can restrict movement of people, in any case the Selfie Queen wouldnt want to,
here is a quote of hers.


"Come here to live, work, invest or study.

Come to Scotland - and be part of building a modern, progressive, outward-looking, compassionate country."
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bilbo.s
post 20th Apr 2017, 06:05pm
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I am so confused that I don't know whether Danny or I is more confused. Is he really blaming the SNP for troops and tanks in George Square, and why has he waited so long to voice his complaint? laugh.gif


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john.mcn
post 20th Apr 2017, 07:14pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 19th Apr 2017, 11:33pm) *
I'm not so sure that Canada's news is a bit slow it probably did not
consider Ken Mcgoogan and his remarks to be so important with regards to
todays's Canada .

This country is made up of umteem different nationalities, eg,
France , Great Britain , Europe , Asia , South America , etc,
and all of them adding their worth to what Canada is today .



And the UK is made up of 4 nationalities but some here would be apoplectic if you told them they were British tongue.gif


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john.mcn
post 20th Apr 2017, 07:28pm
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 20th Apr 2017, 05:27pm) *
Danny, no EU country can restrict movement of people, in any case the Selfie Queen wouldnt want to,
here is a quote of hers.


"Come here to live, work, invest or study.

Come to Scotland - and be part of building a modern, progressive, outward-looking, compassionate country."



If you're English, Welsh, or or Northern Irish residents though you have to pay to study. In itself I have no problem with that, but if it's free to other EU citizens then one might argue that charging UK citizens is kind of racist.

Come to think of it, didn't the SNP hit us (well some of us) with several times the rate of inflation tax rises to pay for education then offer £75 million to cover EU studies..



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angel
post 20th Apr 2017, 07:28pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 20th Apr 2017, 06:14pm) *
And the UK is made up of 4 nationalities but some here would be apoplectic if you told them they were British tongue.gif


If push comes to shove ,

I would not be so sure about that .


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john.mcn
post 20th Apr 2017, 07:35pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 20th Apr 2017, 04:36pm) *
Not a big ask, is it?

Danny



For Jagz answering questions is a big ask, you do that and it's 'shazzam' he disappears for several days, forget Dory I might start calling him Presto the magician wink.gif


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DannyH
post 20th Apr 2017, 10:21pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 20th Apr 2017, 07:05pm) *
I am so confused that I don't know whether Danny or I is more confused. Is he really blaming the SNP for troops and tanks in George Square, and why has he waited so long to voice his complaint? :lol:


Bilbo, I am not confused. Please read Jagz' post which prompted me to respond the way I did, regarding the tanks and troops in George Square.

In the past public meetings were standard practise. If nothing else, they gave the audience a chance to question politicians in public. Jagz suggested that I had plenty of time to go and see my local MP.

NO, NO. I want to let the public hear what his/her response is.

For example, a few years ago, I was on a march which included Alex Neil, of the SNP, to save some of the services provided by Monklands Hospital. At that time, the SNP were not the Scottish Government. At a public meeting, Adam Ingram, a former Labour Cabinet Minister stood up and told the audience that we musn't let our emotions get hold of us when it comes to the NHS. A real Socialist view, eh? In the end the Monkland services were saved. I don't live in the Monklands area, but I live near where the services were to be moved to.

Turn the clock forward, and what is happening, now the SNP are in power? The same proposal of cuts to Monklands has arisen again. Alex McNeil, whom I have great respect for, has stated he is against this move. Unfortunately Alex, recently had a heart attack but I hear he is on the road to recovery.

So Bilbo, while you have been in Spain, I have been attending many public meetings, including ones for the first Scottish Independence referendum. Unlike you I don't waste people's time by constantly posting links of what other people say. I get out there and say my piece. Which included telling Adam Ingram, that as a Cabinet Minister in Tony Blair's government, he was one of the people who ignored the emotional outcry from the public about going to war in Iraq. That had more effect than sitting one to one wth him.

Attending public meetings made me aware that the Greens and the SNP had formed an alliance. This suits the SNP until the day they have a clear majority Government. At any public meetings I attended during the lead up to the Scottish Referendum, the Greens were always at the top table supporting the SNP, including supporting freedom of movement of EU citizens, and their right to vote in the Scottish referendum.

Danny
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JAGZ1876
post 21st Apr 2017, 12:43pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 20th Apr 2017, 05:36pm) *
Please quote the SNP policy which states they will control immigration to Scotland if Scotland becomes a member state of the EU. Not a big ask, is it?

Danny

Danny



How can i quote a policy on something that hasn't happened yet Danny?

Until Scotland becomes independent we won't know what agreements will be reached between the SG and EU, so yes, it is "a big ask" to expect me to know what will happen anymore that as a Brexit supporter you could tell me what the outcome of Brexit will be, or would that not be a big ask for you?
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JAGZ1876
post 21st Apr 2017, 12:47pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 20th Apr 2017, 08:35pm) *
For Jagz answering questions is a big ask, you do that and it's 'shazzam' he disappears for several days, forget Dory I might start calling him Presto the magician wink.gif


I have replied to Danny.

"he disappears for several days", it's called having a life outwith GG, you should try it sometime. laugh.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 21st Apr 2017, 12:53pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 20th Apr 2017, 08:28pm) *
If you're English, Welsh, or or Northern Irish residents though you have to pay to study. In itself I have no problem with that, but if it's free to other EU citizens then one might argue that charging UK citizens is kind of racist.



It's not racist, England, Wales and Northern Ireland could give their students free education from their budgets, they choose not to, and EU rules state you can only charge EU students the same fees as the host country charges.

But you knew that, or if you didn't then perhaps you're not the great know all that you think you are.
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Dykejumper
post 21st Apr 2017, 02:15pm
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This is an item on free higher education in Germany,Scottish University heads have of course
also been paying themselves huge amounts.
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There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. And there is also No Such Thing As A Free Higher Education . Higher education, especially in science-heavy Germany, is incredibly costly to run and maintain. In a typical economic model for financing higher education, the consumer (student) would pay for the good that it consumes (education) and the research that researchers do would lead to innovations that have positive economic impact on society, therefore paying for themselves.

We have departed from this free market, “sustainable,” model globally, and rely heavily on federal subsidies to keep universities afloat. CCAP has argued that these federal monies have largely led to increases in the cost of higher education, which has over time compounded, translating into higher tuition fees. It is clear in the United States, with annual tuition fees in the $40,000s or $50,000s and millionaire university presidents, that federal subsidies have led to outrageous increases in university spending, as universities, administrators, and faculty enjoy the benefits of captured student loan and grant moneys.

Sooner or later this “free” higher education will feel less and less free as increasing taxes will likely drive the most educated, highest earning, most able Germans away from Germany and into societies where they can take home a greater percentage of their pay. This will then reduce the tax cache and start to decrease the deficit more than the added tax revenues from a more professional society will add to them.
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john.mcn
post 21st Apr 2017, 07:23pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Apr 2017, 12:47pm) *
I have replied to Danny.

"he disappears for several days", it's called having a life outwith GG, you should try it sometime. laugh.gif



You replied but you did not answer his question, you bring up some crap about being no policy because Scotland isn't independent yet.. Fact is an Independent Scotland in the EU cannot control immigration from with in the EU, it is one of the main rules in it but you once again try to divert and pull the wool over people eyes.

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Apr 2017, 12:53pm) *
It's not racist, England, Wales and Northern Ireland could give their students free education from their budgets, they choose not to, and EU rules state you can only charge EU students the same fees as the host country charges.

But you knew that, or if you didn't then perhaps you're not the great know all that you think you are.


The question is not about whether other parts of the UK charge fees or not, it is why does the Scottish government discriminate against other parts of the UK while it (we) fund places for citizens of the other 27 countries of the EU. If you had checked before just buying any old blurb trotted out by the numpty brigade then you would see that not all countries with the EU offer free higher education yet the SG dont feel the need to apply those same charges to those citizens in the way they do to citizens of the UK. Now if charges are placed against only 3 countries residents within the whole EU then surely that implies discrimination towards those countries.
I've never said I'm a know it all, quite the opposite as I have said several times my academic education stopped at 4th year in School, what I try to do though is to make sure that views are sound and are based on facts rather than what I read off a blog, you might try it sometime biggrin.gif

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Apr 2017, 12:47pm) *
I have replied to Danny.

"he disappears for several days", it's called having a life outwith GG, you should try it sometime. laugh.gif




Ahh that would be funny except I look at your join date and post count and see you joined the site 3 years after me yet have almost 2,000 posts more. smartass.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 21st Apr 2017, 09:16pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 21st Apr 2017, 08:23pm) *
You replied but you did not answer his question, you bring up some crap about being no policy because Scotland isn't independent yet.. Fact is an Independent Scotland in the EU cannot control immigration from with in the EU



The question is not about whether other parts of the UK charge fees or not, it is why does the Scottish government discriminate against other parts of the UK while it (we) fund places for citizens of the other 27 countries of the EU. If you had checked before just buying any old blurb trotted out by the numpty brigade then you would see that not all countries with the EU offer free higher education yet the SG dont feel the need to apply those same charges to those citizens in the way they do to citizens of the UK. Now if charges are placed against only 3 countries residents within the whole EU then surely that implies discrimination towards those countries.

I try to do though is to make sure that views are sound and are based on facts rather than what I read off a blog, you might try it sometime biggrin.gif

Ahh that would be funny except I look at your join date and post count and see you joined the site 3 years after me yet have almost 2,000 posts more. smartass.gif



If you're saying that Scotland will have no control over its border and that is "a fact", then if it is a fact then why is Danny asking me a rhetorical questions then?

Read my answer to your question about "racist" fees, all the answers are there.

I have never replied to any question from a "blog", is insults all you have left?

Have i really posted 2,000 more times than you?

Fascinating, you clearly have too much time on your hands John.
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john.mcn
post 21st Apr 2017, 11:16pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Apr 2017, 09:16pm) *
If you're saying that Scotland will have no control over its border and that is "a fact", then if it is a fact then why is Danny asking me a rhetorical questions then?


Why are you asking me the reason Danny asks you questions he probably knows the answer to?
QUOTE
Read my answer to your question about "racist" fees, all the answers are there.


I didn't ask any question about 'racist fees', it was a statement. There are no answers in your rather short reply to my post except that they can charge citizens what their own country charges, as there are several countries within the EU who charge from several hundred to several thousand euros per term why do the SG only insist those residents from England, Wales and Northern Ireland pay fees. As I said it isn't that the rUK charge Students its that the SG charges them and them only.

QUOTE
I have never replied to any question from a "blog", is insults all you have left?

You have stated WoS as a reply to a question about figures when stating the GERS figures were made up. GERS were perfectly fine prior to the oil price crash strangely enough.
QUOTE
Have i really posted 2,000 more times than you?

Fascinating, you clearly have too much time on your hands John.


Maybe just a bit more common sense than you Jagz, your post count is under your avatar so it took all of a movement of my eyeball rolleyes.gif


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DannyH
post 21st Apr 2017, 11:17pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Apr 2017, 01:43pm) *
How can i quote a policy on something that hasn't happened yet Danny?

Until Scotland becomes independent we won't know what agreements will be reached between the SG and EU, so yes, it is "a big ask" to expect me to know what will happen anymore that as a Brexit supporter you could tell me what the outcome of Brexit will be, or would that not be a big ask for you?



Jagz, I am sorry but I can't follow your logic.

In your post, #19870 dated 20 April, 2017, you said that I have plenty of time to ask my MP about anything including the mythical "open doors" policy. Now you are saying in the 'quote' above that we have got to wait until the outcome of Brexit has been sorted out. .

Jagz, there is nothing mythical about the open doors policy. That is one of the reasons that the SNP are calling for another referendum on Independence. They want to take Scotland back into the EU. So if they get their way, the REALITY is an open doors policy. The SNP are not interested in the outcome of Brexit. They want an independence referendum come hell or high water. With independence will they give the Scottish people the right to vote if they want to go back to being in the EU? No chance. They will say we have already voted to stay in the EU. Completely ignoring that it was a UK vote on EU membership.

Danny
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