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> French Ban On Muslim Headscarves, What do you think?
flim
post 17th Sep 2004, 12:09pm
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Hi Carmella Sorry to disappoint you but i was brought up in the Catholic Faith,and i can assure you that The Chapel was the correct prase-ology for our place of worship.The priests would come round the school and instruct the boys and girls what to wear and what to do about going to Chapel ,Cofessions etcetra,of course i'm not a practising Catholic no more,when you get perverted Bishops who have children,Priests who sexually assault young boys and girls,Abusive nuns with no love for the children in their homes,in fact just this morning another priest gets 4 years for abusing children Priests should be allowed to marry,and so should nuns,i know i'm going of the subject a little but how can a Priest who is supposed to be celibate tell you how to run your life..Dont take it to heart Carmella as i just answered your post honestly..Cheers Flim
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Catherine
post 17th Sep 2004, 01:41pm
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Now here's an interesting observation {I think}....
You call a Nuns headscarf a Habit....I wonder if there's a connection to the 'habit' Muslim women have of wearing the headscarf..as it's been pointed out that it's not really mandatory to wear within religion.
Could it have came from those ages in the middle East when ALL women wore them through custom?
Do you get my meaning?...As in the form of it being a habit more than a rule?


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Nora
post 17th Sep 2004, 02:08pm
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Sorry To write in French, I'm not sure of my english.
I want to answer; well, I live in France many years; I borned there, andwhen I was very young, I never find problem, to live like others and be a muslim woman; People wanted to unterstand eachother. But it was the past;
Petit à petit, le chômage aidant et la crise économique s'étant installé, les communautés étrangères et plus particulièrement musulmanes ont été montrés du doigt, de part leur attachement à leur culture d'origine, leur religion, le façon de vivre...etc
Nous dérangions toutes les personnes bien pensantes qui faute de pouvoir nous renvoyer manu-military chez nous, ont créé cette idée de peur de l'autre, autre qui n'a pas la même façon de vivre que soi. D'où le sentiment d'incompréhension, de peur et plus tard de haine raciale.
Par bravade, et parce que beaucoup de jeunes étrangers musulmans n'avaient pas acces aux études et plus particulièrement à l'unviersité, ces mêmes jeunes ont voulu par provocation, plus que par menace d'intégrisme, monter aux français, que malgré tout ils restaient dignes et que qelque que soit la pression des gouvernants ils ne changeraient pas d'un iota leur convictions religieuses, d'où les mots d'islamisme radical, de fanatisme et j'en passe,....
Il ne faut pas confondre religion et barbarie, on peut être musulman sans pour autant être fanatique, on peut vivre sa religion sans avoir à l'imposer aux autres, on peut vivre avec les autres en bonne intelligence; pourquoi donc tant de haine et pourquoi tant d'amalgames.
J'ai fais du tourisme en Ecosse l'an dernier, plus particulièrement à Glasgow, ville que j'adore, et j'ai été très surprise de voir les gens vivre en bonne intelligence, sans juger les différences des autres, sans aucune animosités, je me suis sentie à l'aise et j'ai eu du mal à revenir sur France après; surtout ne changez pas mes amis écossais, vous êtes les meilleurs

Nora
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Catherine
post 17th Sep 2004, 03:42pm
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I'll translate here guys.....HAHA cannae believe ye's fell fur that wan laugh.gif

Seriously, anyone translate for Nora?


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Melody
post 17th Sep 2004, 03:54pm
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Posted: Today at 3:25 pm

Unpacking

Little by little, the unemployment helping and the economical crisis having installed itself, the foreign communities and more more more particularly Muslimer were showed finger, of party their devotion to their origin culture, their religion, the manner to live. ..etc disturbed Us all the persons well thinking that for lack of be able to send back us manu-military at our place, created this fear idea of the other, other that has notWhat oneself. From which the lack of understanding feeling, of fear and late of racial hate. By act of bravado, and because a lot of young Muslim foreigners had not acces to the studies and particularly to the unviersité, these same young persons wanted by provocation, more than by threatens fundamentalism, climb to the French, than despite all they remained worthy and than qelque than be the pressure of the governing they would not change any an iota their religious convictions, from which the islamisme words. It does not be necessary to confuse religion and barbarity, one can be Muslim without for as much to be fanatical, one can live his religion without having to impose on it the others, one can live with the others in good intelligence; why therefore so many hate and why so of combine. I have does tourism in Scotland the last year, more particularly to Glasgow, city than I love, and I was very surprised to see the people to live in good intelligence, without judging the differences of the others, without no animosités, I felt comfortable and I had trouble to go back over France after; especially do not change my Scottish friends, you are

Nora
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Catherine
post 17th Sep 2004, 04:21pm
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Thanks Melody {smart@} laugh.gif

So, basically are you saying Nora that some Muslim students feel they are being unfairly provoked by the French Government, have stood up to them as they feel their identity is being undermined, and they feel disciminated against because of their religion?
I'd agree with that if I'm reading you right.

I think I grasped how little you found the bias in Glasgow, and how much you wish the French could be the same. That's good to read.
Is this what everyone else is reading in the translation?


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Melody
post 17th Sep 2004, 05:13pm
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My, but that was a good summing up there oor Catherine, yer sure good when ye get started! If only we knew when ye'd stoap! laugh.gif Luv ye really. It's good to know that you found us to be a tolerant and friendly lot Nora, hopefully we will always continue to be thought of in those terms.
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hubert
post 17th Sep 2004, 05:16pm
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Well let me tell you how I see it, Nora is complimenting the Glasgow people for their apparent acceptance of others, now bare in mind Glasgow people are no daft, if they were to ridicule and not accept others, they realize this would interfere and take up too much of their unacceptance, disgust, and outright secular vehement, towards each other. rolleyes.gif
What is one of the most asked questions in Glasgow," what religion ur yous, Celtic or Rangers"? LMAO
Jist kiddin folks! HaHa
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Catherine
post 17th Sep 2004, 05:21pm
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Aye but that's different is it no Hubert? laugh.gif


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Melody
post 17th Sep 2004, 05:34pm
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Aye, that's very different Hubert, that's us getting at each other.
But God help anybody else that gets at us aw! We're Glaswegians first and foremost that means we love strangers and visitors we're just curious about people and we like strangers we're interested in them. These days we don't take that Rangers and Celtic business seriously,........... well no too seriously! laugh.gif We're very multicultural ye know! We've even got inside toilets noo. Ya cheeky auld grump!
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hubert
post 17th Sep 2004, 07:46pm
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Sure its different, heck religion was incidental in Glasgow the root of any trouble wis fitba, although have wondered often Celtic being the Popes eleven, I dont recall embdy ever seeing him in Parkheid at a gemme.
And Prince William of Orange was never at Ibrox that I know of.
Wonder if the Scottish parliament will latch on tae what the French are doing, and ban the scarfs at Celtic Park, and Ibrox?
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Heather
post 17th Sep 2004, 08:40pm
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Hey Hubert, are you trying to start a revolution, banning the supporters scarves indeed. When that happens the green & the orange will gang up on Parliament. Outwith fighting in the wars it would be the only time they fought on the same side. laugh.gif

Flim, I agree with you about the name Chapel. I lived in the Cowcaddens when I was young and it was Chapel for the Catholics and Church for the Protestants. It has only been in recent years that the Chapel has been called the Church.

I have to say Flim that I find it quite sad that you class all Religious as the same because of the few bad apples, and I say the "few" because there are more good Religious people than there are bad and they do a lot of good work.
I was taught by Nuns and there were only one who was ever described as nasty but she was never cruel to the girls she taught, just a bad tempered person.
Before some one now accuses her of being sexist because I did not say what she did to the boys, there were no boys in the school.


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carmella
post 17th Sep 2004, 10:07pm
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Flim
You do not disappoint me in the slightest – rest assured!

And, if you read my post again, I said to you and anyone else who read this, that I was speaking from my own experience – I did not assert that the word “chapel” was only used by those who were not catholic – instead pointing out that it was used by those who were not catholic, in the area where I was brought up – likewise to the remarks of mine about being told what and what not to wear on my head or otherwise.

There are many bad apples in society – sadly there have been, over a number of years, a number of religious figures, priests et al, involved in the moist disgusting acts towards those either in their care or within their congregations – I would hazard a guess that it was going on long before any of us would even have considered a situation like this.

When I was growing up, it would never have occurred to me or my family that our parish priest would even think about such things, let alone actually commit them – no need here to go into what has, in recent years, sadly come to light. My heart goes out to anyone who has suffered in such a way. I dare say only a small minority of those who are now in their adult years, have actually come forward with this kind of information. Whether they have or have not – there is one thing for sure – it has ultimately ruined their life and very possibly their trust in people and who can blame them?

Always we hear about the bad priests, but we must always remember, whether it be catholic priests or ministers of other religions – these abuse cases have not only be brought against catholic priests but against others – that for every bad apple – there are ten good ones – this applies in all walks of life – I like to think mostly of those who never get a mention or seek publicity or fame, through the many good deeds they do on a daily basis.

I can only speak for myself of course, when I say that personally, I’ve had no bad experiences of the kind we’re talking about. It therefore stands to reason, that I do not know how it feels to live with something like this.

On the subject of priests etc. being allowed to marry, I personally totally agree with this, and always have done, largely for the reasons you outlined. But, it is worth bearing in mind, given the nature of paedophiles and other sexual abusers – being married, would not have stopped them, so the issue of the crimes being committed by the same individuals, would still be there for the most part.

Thank you for your reply Flim – and I take on board all that you say.

My granny was Maltese and her day was the church – as often as she could, she’d go to mass, when not going to mass, she was back at church lighting candles in front of Our Lady – she never once entered the church without her head covered. I have vivid memories of my granny and when she died I broke my heart – she and I were very close – no matter what she was doing around the house, she wore a Rosary which was attached to her apron and dutifully recited the Rosary in Maltese as she went about her business – I often have a wee smile when I remember this – it’s as vivid now as it was at the time. She died 30 years ago and I still miss her, as I do my own dear mother – my best friend in life.


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It is possible to fail in many ways...while to succeed is possible only in one way.
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flim
post 18th Sep 2004, 09:20am
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Hi Carmella No harm done ,I agree with everything you say,it's just because i was raised in the Catholic faith from 6-15 in school,and i could only tell you about my boyhood,obviously where you come from it is different [Geographical].I know their are bad apples in all religions,but then again,they where not my boyhood faith..but this board gives us all to air their views ,but here in Glasgow their is dissent about Asylum Seekers,it's not them but the system which is making Glaswegians turn against them Awrabest Flim
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August26
post 18th Sep 2004, 12:02pm
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Flim:
By the system, do you mean the handouts that the foreigners get. like Social Security or unemployment benefits, if so this is also a problem over here, I have said to politician, don't tell me Social Security is going broke, stop giving it to people who never paid into it, if I had a bank account with $5.00 in it, I couldn't take out $20.00 because I didn't put that much in there, same applies, if you didn't contribute to it, then you don't get a return from it, there are people here who bring over elderly parents, from foreign countries, who then in turn apply for and get SS, blows my mind, especially when my co-workers husband had to fight to get SS when he got so bad with MS he couldn't work anymore, when I came here I had to have a job and be able to support myself, Lyndon Johnson changed the system.

Sorry I know I'm off topic. sad.gif

August


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