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> Is The Union Already Lost?, Referendum: 18th September 2014
**Gordon**
post 2nd Jan 2014, 12:26am
Post #31






Scottish-born and brought up, I am now an Australian and unsure how much my vote, albeit notional, can count.

As a kid we were always sensitive to the perceived snobberies from the south of England and longed for a separate nation. Added to that were the clear cruelties and criminal events of history. Nowadays, I am unsure whether separation may be good or bad for Scotland's future. My earlier sentiments, from the heart, support independence, yet I really can't see a totally separate nation, remaining immune from the stupidities and tyranny of the EU and the so-called Human Rights charlatans in Strasbourg.

My mind tells me that a united Britain is probably a better pragmatic choice given so many social and fiscal changes that may or may not ever be likely. Immigration is a major problem for the UK as I see it, with unwanted hundreds of thousands baying to get in and grab their slice of the apple pie to the detriment of the deserving Brits who have worked for their share.

So, by staying with England Scotland may just become a victim of uncontrolled chaotic immigration. But that may happen anyway if we can't defend that thin frontier between the two countries.

So, for what it's worth, that's where I would stand. Good luck in whatever you all choose.
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farrochie
post 2nd Jan 2014, 09:30am
Post #32

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Scotland has a vast amount of resources and talented people to develop our country. We have fishing, aquaculture, crops, livestock, food, drinks, world class and unique distilling, brewing, financial services, banking, tourism, education, research, IT software, engineering, construction, shipping, avionics, energy, hydroelectricity & renewables, coal, oil & gas and lots of water!

But Westminster takes ALL the tax revenues from these resources. Corporation tax, VAT, income tax, NICs, alcohol/tobacco/fuel duty, road fund - everything. Then they give us back a lump sum grant, decided by the Barnett Formula. But Westminster makes all our big decisions for us, all the "reserved matters", 16 pages of reserved matters. And Westminster "allows" us to make decisions health, education and justice, and a few other matters.

Scotland is mature enough to collect taxes, decide priorities and make decisions on behalf of Scotland. Westminster will never put Scotland's interests first. And don't believe they spread the risk and reward over the whole UK. All London-based parties deliver what's best for their main constituency, middle England (their words).

It is time that Scotland took decision making back from Westminster into our own hands. We can elect Scottish governments that are not beholden to the interests of London & the south-east of England.

Happy New Year!
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Heather
post 2nd Jan 2014, 09:43am
Post #33


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Well said Farrochie.

When we get our Independence we may well have a few problems at first, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and in time Scotland will sort itself out.

We have heard for years how Scotland is subsidised by the English, if that is true, why are they so anxious to hang on to us.

Scotland gets whatever Government England votes for, so lets take our future into our own hands.

Bought and sold for English gold. angry.gif


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Heather.......I'm tartan. Alba gu Brath. Saor Alba
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amclpreston
post 2nd Jan 2014, 09:59am
Post #34

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QUOTE (red rooster @ 1st Jan 2014, 06:59pm) *
Seems to me that both sides are as bad as each other the no campaign with their fear campaign and the yes campaign who see Independance as a panacea for all ills.

I think the situation was best summed up by Rab C on the Hogmanay show last night - "2014 will be the year the great Scottish people will decide if they are to be shafted by Westminster or Holyrood"

Many a true word spoken in jest.


I may laugh with Rab C. But at root I don't share his cynicism.

What took you to Kuching, in Sarawak? I worked, and lived for several years in Brunei.
How I got there was because I was single, quite adventurous, and took certain opportunities that presented themselves.

However, not everyone wants to be in a country where out of 17 native species of snake, only 16 are poisonous.

For me, an independent Scotland offers aspiration, hope and change. Not a panacea for all difficulties.

I was just thinking, a moment ago, about Donald Dewar. He worked hard to bring about devolution for Scotland. He didn't live to be an old man. Must have been ageing for him to have to try to overcome the deadbeat attitudes within his own party.

And that, I believe, is what this is really about. The Union is really about London, and Westminster.

Time for a parting of the ways. A friendly one. Of mutual co-operation.
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JAGZ1876
post 2nd Jan 2014, 10:25am
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QUOTE (amclpreston @ 2nd Jan 2014, 10:16am) *
Time for a parting of the ways. A friendly one. Of mutual co-operation.



Hear hear thumbup.gif

It's interesting to note that although only 10% have taken part in the new GG poll so far than the original poll, the share of the YES/NO vote is almost identical, which makes me think this is more accurate than the professional ones which are paid for by the YES and NO campaigns.
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Dylan
post 2nd Jan 2014, 10:54am
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As this is a SNP Board, it is no surprise that every Poll returns the same result , which is contrary to those conducted in the real world.???

2014, I predict many new members who will match one of the following profiles.

a. "Haven't made my mind up" day 1. Day 2 converted to Yes Vote.!

b. Ready made SNP foot soldier acting under orders from King Eck. !!

See if I'm right. laugh.gif


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bilbo.s
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:01am
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Brilliant post, Farrochie, although perhaps I should not comment for fear of offending those who would deny expression of opinion to expats such as me. I do not know whether that attitude applies even to expats who agree with them on the independence issue, but I suspect, from some remarks, that we are all to be tarred with the same brush as traitors who have deserted the homeland. As a UK pensioner with close family in Scotland, I reserve the right to have my say, as the issue most definitely affects me personally. I do not however whinge about not having a vote, but accept the decision.

The mention of sour grapes gave me a rueful laugh ! Talk about transference !


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Betsy2009
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:09am
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I wonder if it would be possible for a new government to ring fence the monies collected, e.g. road tax is for roads, NI is for the NHS, etc, instead of it seemingly going into one big pot to be spent on all and sundry, including MP's expenses? In other words, better housekeeping.
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farrochie
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:15am
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QUOTE (Dylan @ 2nd Jan 2014, 11:11am) *
As this is a SNP Board, it is no surprise that every Poll returns the same result , which is contrary to those conducted
in the real world.???


2014, I predict many new members who will match one of the following profiles.

a) " Haven't made my mind up" day 1. Day 2 converted to Yes Vote.!

b)Ready made SNP foot soldier acting under orders from King Eck. !!


See if I'm right. laugh.gif


Take some time to imagine if this referendum had been called by say, the Labour Party. Imagine that the Labour Party in Scotland had gone back to its roots and decided it wanted an independent Scotland. Imagine if it was supported by the party of "Home Rule", the Liberal Democrats.

Now think about how you might vote if these parties were telling you that Scotland should run its own affairs.

This is not about the SNP! It is about the people of Scotland, and how we wish our decisions to be made. You have a simple choice, we can have a say at Westminster and a grant to run the bits that Westminster decides, or we can have the full powers that every other country has.
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Dylan
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:20am
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Naw, it's about the SNP !!

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 2nd Jan 2014, 11:26am) *
I wonder if it would be possible for a new government to ring fence the monies collected, e.g. road tax is for roads, NI is for the NHS, etc, instead of it seemingly going into one big pot to be spent on all and sundry, including MP's expenses? In other words, better housekeeping.




rolleyes.gif


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**Andrew**
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:22am
Post #41






QUOTE (Guest @ 1st Jan 2014, 07:06pm) *
I'll be voting no, All Alex Salmond wants is to be a big fish in a small pond instead of a small fish in a large Loch. He doesn't care about us or Scotland.


This issue will affect all our grandchildren. To base your vote on the merits or otherwise of one 59-year-old individual is totally nonsensical.
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john.mcn
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:37am
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QUOTE (Dylan @ 2nd Jan 2014, 11:11am) *
As this is a SNP Board, it is no surprise that every Poll returns the same result , which is contrary to those conducted
in the real world.???


Like your bowling club tongue.gif


All the vested interests can bleat about how accurate their (real world)polls are, which of course they are, for the people they ask. They are selling a service after all and mugs will gladly pay for it, but lets get right down to what these (real world) polls are, they are asking people in the hundreds and taking that figure and adding some algorithms, a wee squiggle here and there all to make it look like smart people have done it and somehow taking those hundreds and turning them into millions.. Surely a feat worthy of the tag miracle, i mean they say some dude fed a lot of people with a couple slice of bread and fish fingers but this...this, give these guys a kit kat and the whole world could take a break.. amazing stuff indeed.
Seriously though, snake oil salesman didn't go the way of the bison, they just adapted, it used to be sure bet horse racing programs, then pools predictor, then lottery and now it seems they conduct polls of a few passers by and tell us this is how 'we' are all thinking.. They say fools and their money are easily separated, and we know how foolish politicians can be.

This is a fun poll and as accurate as all the others out there, thats to say not very when we are talking about the whole population.


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Dylan
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:39am
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Do you take drugs. ? laugh.gif


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john.mcn
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:43am
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QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 2nd Jan 2014, 11:26am) *
I wonder if it would be possible for a new government to ring fence the monies collected, e.g. road tax is for roads, NI is for the NHS, etc, instead of it seemingly going into one big pot to be spent on all and sundry, including MP's expenses? In other words, better housekeeping.



No such thing as road tax, it is vehicle excise duty, thats how they get away with the state of the roads as they are.


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farrochie
post 2nd Jan 2014, 11:47am
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QUOTE (Dylan @ 2nd Jan 2014, 11:56am) *
Do you take drugs. ? laugh.gif


Remember, Dylan, that when give the opportunity Scots voted overwhelmingly to have our own parliament as follows:

Agree:1,775,045 (74.3%)
Disagree : 614,400 (25.7%)

Why is it you think that Scotland is better served by Westminster with 1 Tory and 11 LibDems representing us in government?
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