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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow News Blog _ The Second Betrayal Of William Wallace

Posted by: GG 31st May 2011, 11:28pm

Wallace's Well in Robroyston, the site where the Scottish patriot William Wallace took his last drink as a free man, today, sadly, stands on the brink of destruction. Despite much-repeated calls by community and historical groups, Glasgow City Council has steadfastly refused to protect the ancient site, resulting in the almost complete destruction of the well's outer wall by passing road traffic.

The council has also been contacted on numerous occasions by concerned citizens from the surrounding area, and many from much further afield; however, the Labour-dominated local authority has so far refused to implement signposting or traffic-calming measures which might save the historical monument. The council's stubborn refusal comes despite the fact that thousands of high-value houses have been built in the area, resulting in an unprecedented surge in local traffic along the narrow country roads surrounding the well.

The existence of the well on Gad Burn predates Wallace by several centuries, but the site gained national historical significance as the source of water from which Wallace drunk his final drink as a free man shortly before his capture nearby in August 1305. Exactly a century ago, funds raised by the local community and the American Wallace Society transformed the well and surrounding area into a beautifully landscaped attraction dedicated to the memory of Scotland's most famous warrior patriot.

The seeds of the well's demise were, however, sown in 1993 when it was quietly stripped of its protected status after Historic Scotland – supported by the Glasgow council – decided that the site was "of little historical interest". Many historians have since claimed that Historic Scotland's decision to remove the well's 'B'-listed status was wrong. Speaking in 1999, Dr Gilbert Bell, former curator at Springburn Museum and a local Robroyston historian, was dismissive of Historic Scotland's reasons for dropping the well's listed status. Dr Gilbert said:

QUOTE
"If Wallace stayed in the house [at Robroyston], that's where he would drink from.

All over Scotland there are Wallace wells and Wallace leaps, but this site is not disputed as he was captured there.

The site is every bit as important as Bannockburn and is part of Scotland's high road to independence."

The following poll was first run last year and, as of today, has almost 500 responses. I am re-releasing the poll. Please note that you may already have responded to the poll and, therefore, will not be able to vote again.


GG.







 

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 31st May 2011, 11:33pm

QUOTE
... Glasgow City Council ...

'nuff said. ph34r.gif

Posted by: wellfield 31st May 2011, 11:36pm

I've stated before that it's absurb that the powers to be wouldn't take care of this historical site..I also played there often as a child..and being as tourism is Scotland's largest money maker you'd think it would be given more of a priority!! Sad Sad Sad!!!

Posted by: chinscot 1st Jun 2011, 12:37am

I think no matter were you are all historical sites should be preserved otherwise to following generation will miss out as well as other generations to come. Look at whats been happening in China with the flooding of the Three Gorges many ancient villiages are under water history will be lost forever. Lets all get together and tell Council to protect your heritage.

Posted by: RonD 1st Jun 2011, 01:01am

The Glasgow council should hang their collective heads in shame.
Wallace and his history were the keystone that marked Scotland as a free and independent nation.

If the feeling is that it is of little historical importance, any right minded forward thinking council would take the opportunity to make it significant and profile a wonderful piece of the greater Glasgow history. If properly maintained it would a tourist draw like no other.

Like Wellfield I too remember Sunday evening walks past the well in the mid fifties. I was intrigued to find the place where a historical figure I learned about in school had been there.

Posted by: RonD 1st Jun 2011, 01:03am

Possibly someone could start a fund in the area and solicit the council to help with signage and the new committee fund the wall repairs received from donations. I am sure if the word went out there would be enough "tenners" donated to get the thing done.

Posted by: Jim.C 1st Jun 2011, 01:35am

I am appalled at the behaviour of Historic Scotland by refusing to at least TRY and protect what little historical monuments and sites are left for our children and grandchildren to visit. It would appear that if it does not line the pockets of Historic Scotland then it is of no importance and should be left to rot or even demolish as we are seeing with the Wallace Well scenerio.

I wonder too if the directors and decision executives of this organization are located south of the border as they certainly seem to have that TO HECK WITH SCOTLAND attitude, how much money can we make? and if we can`t make any cash on the site, then who cares.
I can tell you this much, I CARE, and so do thousands of others, but then again, WE ARE SCOTTISH, and proud of it, too bad Historic Scotland doesn`t appear to have the same outlook .

Jim.C

Posted by: CAMPSIE 1st Jun 2011, 01:46am

QUOTE (RonD @ 1st Jun 2011, 01:11am) *
Possibly someone could start a fund in the area and solicit the council to help with signage and the new committee fund the wall repairs received from donations. I am sure if the word went out there would be enough "tenners" donated to get the thing done.

I agree RonD that a fund would be the only way to keep this site from disappearing, all to often these important landmarks are lost for further generations, but it is the history of why they are important that is the shameful loss. Please let us know if a fund is started we would certainly donate to it.


Cheers Campsie

Posted by: Dunvegan 1st Jun 2011, 01:56am

One wonders at their penchant for destroying that which according to the online poll 99% of respondents regard this as a sacred trust. Even the English would preserve this as a heritage site.

Posted by: Jim Wilson 1st Jun 2011, 04:34am

I hope the citizens of Glasgow remember who these councillors are when its time for re-election. It's time to replace councillors who dont want to listen to the people.

Posted by: tarheels 1st Jun 2011, 05:49am

Here is a man that was torn apart to save scotland , by the bruce , anything that this man has done in the past should be sacred , i live in calif. usa , but i honor this man , by blood i am part scout an proud of it , your councel should stand tall , what if wallace hadn't stood up to the bruce , where would you be now , wallace should have a monument in his honor an for all scotland. wub.gif
clarence potter sr
ojai calif.

Posted by: droschke7 1st Jun 2011, 06:21am

The councillors are obviously too busy grabbing as much cash from the council coffers as they can to be bothered with trivial things such as what their constituants want SHAME ON YOU!!! Glasgow Councillors.

Posted by: Duncan Fenton 1st Jun 2011, 08:16am

As a member of the Society of William Wallace, I attended that commemoration in 1999 & spoke with Dr. Bell afterwards. Since then, I have been corresponding with Hist. Scot. to attempt to get them to see the error of their ways & to re-list the well. After many years of trying to get other bodies to exert some influence on them, they still will not budge.

I have also written to the City Council on many occasions about the damage surrounding the well, suggesting various road safety measures that could be used to make the site more pedestrian-friendly. They rejected them all. The only concession I got was to change the "Give Way" sign to a larger one. I requested a "Stop" sign, but was told you need special permission from the Secretery of State for Scotland for that!!

In the last few months, however, it seems they are putting plans in place for a way of protecting the wall before it is rebuilt, & a general upgrade of the well area. We will be keeping watch with interest.

Through the efforts of valued friends, the site surrounding the monument itself is now looking better than it has for many years, after decades of neglect & indifference from the council.


Posted by: nippynell 1st Jun 2011, 09:29am

QUOTE (RonD @ 1st Jun 2011, 01:09am) *
The Glasgow council should hang their collective heads in shame.
Wallace and his history were the keystone that marked Scotland as a free and independent nation.
If the feeling is that it is of little historical importance, any right minded forward thinking council would take the opportunity to make it significant and profile a wonderful piece of the greater Glasgow history. If properly maintained it would a tourist draw like no other.

Like Wellfield I too remember Sunday evening walks past the well in the mid fifties. I was intrigued to find the place where a historical figure I learned about in school had been there.

Forget about them lowering their heads in shame! THEY OUGHT TO BE HUNG!!!!! mad.gif and I'm in total agreement with you it would be a fantastic tourist attraction like no other... what in God's name does this so-called SCOTTISH council think they're playing at??? huh.gif

Posted by: *greta* 1st Jun 2011, 09:53am

I too am appalled at a labour run council for neglecting this site, maybe its time for a change. I also cant understand historic Scotland (who I am usually a fan of) not protecting this site. It is my understanding that they are responsible for Scotlands historic past, but it does not look like it on this occasion. Maybe they are only interested in the sites that bring them in cash. I would both welcome and pay into a fund for the well and would also donate some of my time, in order to help with the project. Would be willing to help with the re-building of the wall. But in the end you still need this place protected by historic Scotland. So maybe we should gather up a petition for it. Like many Glasgow youngsters my Mother took us to the well to throw coppers in and make a wish, as I am sure her granny did with her. It wasent far to go as we were all born in Robroyston. We must do something about this, or we will lose part of our national heritage, after all Wallace gave up his life for us "the people", think its the least we can do.

Posted by: jojax64 1st Jun 2011, 10:05am

So sad....played there many times as a youngster. sad.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 1st Jun 2011, 10:36am

QUOTE (Duncan Fenton @ 1st Jun 2011, 08:24am) *
... After many years of trying to get other bodies to exert some influence on them, they still will not budge ...

Didn't Wallace himself have a similar problem in his day?
Too many leaders too concerned with their private issues, I guess, to give concern to historic values.
Hey, we're gonna have a great munoment to the Commonwealth Games soon ... that will one day have historic value - as opposed the Former Residential Area of Dalmarnock known as Ville de Jeux d'almarnoch. cool.gif

Posted by: PabloDav 1st Jun 2011, 10:46am

UNTIL WE GET RID OF THESE DESPOTS IN THE LABOUR COUNCIL WE WILL NEVER HAVE A CITY COUNCIL WHO ARE PROUD TO BE GLASWEGIAN.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 1st Jun 2011, 11:23am

QUOTE (RonD @ 1st Jun 2011, 01:11am) *
Possibly someone could start a fund in the area and solicit the council to help with signage and the new committee fund the wall repairs received from donations. I am sure if the word went out there would be enough "tenners" donated to get the thing done.

I agree with you RonD, but sad to say the only tenners councillors are interested in, are stuffed in to plain brown envelopes.

Posted by: Longbeach 1st Jun 2011, 12:12pm

Hello
As a Scotsman & proud of it,born in the Maryhill district of Glasgow, it never ceases to amaze me of the power that councils have over the wishes of the people,they are an elected body to represent the people & the community. William Wallace a Scottish Patriot in the wars of Scottish independence alongside Andrew Moray, these men should be revered in the folklore of Scotland, we know little enough of William Wallace the man, let alone deminish what we do know about him. We do know that he was captured at Robroyston, but this issue over Wallacewell should not be an issue just for Glasgow but for the whole of Scotland, Wallace is a hero to the people of Scotland and should be treated as such. Historic Scotland degrading the standing of the Wallacewell should enrage all Scotsmen & women, as for the council I hope they take note of the poll you ask people to vote on, 98% of the people ask to vote want the Wallacewell upgraded and kept and preseved as a place of such historical value to a man, a SCOTSMAN who fought & died against what was happening to his country and to Scotlands SONS & DAUGHTERS abused by others for a land that did not belong to them. One of these days (I WONT HOLD MY BREATH) the councils of this land will listen to the wishes of the people.

Posted by: The Callands Rebel 1st Jun 2011, 12:35pm

This one really bothers me.

Yes, as a Virginian I contacted Glasgow Council AND GG to assist along with my other Scottish Camp members here in Glasgow by our Sons of Confederate Veterans Camp to clean this up.

We are small but we never heard from the council.

As my all my in-laws live within a short walk to this monument I have seen the pitiful state of it for years.

I must relay this, that all my British families of 1861 whether they were Irish, Scots or English,
were those united in defeating another tyrant. LINCOLN, as our families of 1776 defeated that English Crown not once but twice (1812).

Our histories are alike, as our "Yankee" counterparts daily try to tarnish and remove the Southland's heritage history and the good names of all our "warriors".

And now one of the homes of my ancestors, Scotland, is letting the same thing happen.

BE PROUD OF YOUR HERITAGES AS WELL, A POLITICANS ARE THE SAME WHETHER USA OR SCOTLAND, VOTE THE BUMS OUT.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THE WELL WHEN WE RETURN IN OCTOBER RESTORED TO DIGNITY.

IN BONDS OF THE OLD SOUTH.

JERRY

Posted by: fisher2511 1st Jun 2011, 01:26pm

You can be sure that if Wallace's betrayer had drunk at the well, Glasgow labour council would spare no effort in saving the site.

Posted by: numan22 1st Jun 2011, 02:39pm

Surely the new SNP Council could do something?

Posted by: Kenny Jenkins 1st Jun 2011, 04:10pm

What is actually needed here? A few people to go down there one sunny morning and fix the wall. Did William Wallace complain about on a website?
If the memory of Wallace means anything it means direct action by the Scottish People. What are you waiting for?

Posted by: Harrymc 1st Jun 2011, 04:38pm

I recently recorded a wee video of the Well and also the Monument in which I made some observations about the lack of any indication that these historic site actually existed.It can be accessed through the Reminicences of OldSpringburn site if anybody is interested.
I wondered then if Wallaces Well wouldn't,like the Monument almost is,end up as a feature in somebody's garden given the amount of housing development that 's taken place in the area.
Mind you it might be better preserved there if it did.
These people in the Council don't seem to have any respect for history and as Wellfield comments the Tourists that such site could attract,if there was something to indicate that they exist at all.

Posted by: angel 1st Jun 2011, 07:09pm

QUOTE (fisher2511 @ 1st Jun 2011, 12:34pm) *
You can be sure that if Wallace's betrayer had drunk at the well, Glasgow labour council would spare no effort in saving the site.

That's Scottish history in a nutshell!

Posted by: Crewsy Fixer 1st Jun 2011, 07:59pm

Well said Kenny Jenkins, Wallace didny wait for planning permission.

Dont talk to me of Scotland The Brave

For if we dont fight soon

There will be nothing left to save

Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave

While you wait for the Tartan Messiah.

Posted by: GG 2nd Jun 2011, 12:21am

The poll now has 754 votes cast, the most for any Glasgow Guide poll. I thought that you might be interested in the geographic breakdown of the votes, which include (where it can be established) voters from 24 countries around the world. Please see the attached image below.


http://www.fxbeing.com/kaigai-metatrader.html http://www.onlinecasinolist.org/review-betway Betfred casino

GG.


 

Posted by: weecal 2nd Jun 2011, 01:33am

Martin. Could not someone like yourself working through The Robroyston Wallace Monument Admin. approach a local National Bank branch and set up a fund that accepts donations? Going by the proceeding comments I think there would be great financial support and when there is enough money the council could be approached to match PGB for PGB and get the work done.

Posted by: Rob Rattray 2nd Jun 2011, 05:06am

I have stated before, and will do so again thart it is absolute hypocrasy of the council NOT caring for this historical site [the Wallace Well and surrounds] Where would they be today, apart from fat cats with public monies lining their pockets if it was not for freedom for which William Wallace fought so valiantly? My poor Grandfather, a staunch Glaswegian of Bridgeton, is turning in his grave over this desecration!

Posted by: GG 2nd Jun 2011, 07:41am

QUOTE (weecal @ 2nd Jun 2011, 01:41am) *
Martin. Could not someone like yourself working through The Robroyston Wallace Monument Admin. approach a local National Bank branch and set up a fund that accepts donations? Going by the proceeding comments I think there would be great financial support and when there is enough money the council could be approached to match PGB for PGB and get the work done.

Many thanks weecal. I have to say that his would be an excellent suggestion if the problem was money; however, the problem with the decline and destruction at Robroyston – both with the Wallace Monument and Wallace's Well – has never been about the availability of funds. Plain and simple it is about a complete lack of will on the part of local politicians to respect the importance of two sites of national historical importance.

As Duncan Fenton points out in a reply above, even where the solutions are simple and cheap, such as changing a small 'Give Way' sign to a larger 'STOP' sign, local politicians are keen to block any progress or protection. In the case of the change of sign, Mr Fenton, deputy convenor of the Society of William Wallace, was told by local politicians that such a simple change could not proceed because it would require "special permission from the Secretery of State for Scotland".

Unfortunately, this is what we are dealing with here: small-minded local politicians who want to draw the dark and musty curtains across the windows of Glasgow city chambers and wallow in a selfish mindset which denies the city of Glasgow understanding, progress and opportunity.

From the Robroyston Wallace Monument website:
QUOTE
If you visit the Wallace Monument at Robroyston, you can still stand on the ground where William Wallace slept on a fateful August night over 700 years ago; you can still walk a short distance from the monument to the well that has for centuries borne his name; and you can still view the source of the water at which the great warrior-patriot knelt and drank. If nothing else, this in itself would be significant, as so little is truly known of the life of Wallace that to be so sure of his exact location at any point in time is something special.

But what really matters, what makes Robroyston so special, so important, is that that night's sleep was to be his last, and that drink was to be his final, as a free man. On the night of 3rd August 1305, the man who had dedicated his life to fight for the freedom of his country ultimately lost his own personal fight for freedom.

In death, the legend of Wallace was to grow so strong that within less than a decade Bruce would climb on Wallace's shoulders to wrench freedom for Scotland on the field of Bannockburn in 1314.

http://www.robroyston.org

GG.

Posted by: GG 2nd Jun 2011, 07:57am

QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 1st Jun 2011, 02:04am) *
One wonders at their penchant for destroying that which according to the online poll 99% of respondents regard this as a sacred trust. Even the English would preserve this as a heritage site.

Thanks Dunvegan. It is interesting to note that in the Smithfield area of London, where Wallace was taken to for execution after his capture at Robroyton, there stands a memorial to the Scottish patriot honouring the memory of a man who gave his life fighting for the freedom of his country. Glasgow City Council has never deemed it necessary to erect a similar memorial at the location of his capture.

The words on the impressive granite plaque in London are poignant:
QUOTE
To The Immortal Memory of Sir William Wallace

Scottish patriot born at Elderslie Renfrewshire circa 1270 A.D. Who from the year 1296 fought dauntlessly in defence of his country’s Liberty and Independence in the face of fearful odds and great hardship being eventually betrayed and captured brought to London and put to death near this spot on the 23rd August 1305.

His example heroism and devotion inspired those who came after him to win victory from defeat and his memory remains for all time a source of pride honour and inspiration to his Countrymen.

Dico tibi verum libertas optima rerum nunquam servili sub nexu vivito fili
(I tell you the truth, son, freedom is the best condition, never live like a slave)

Bas Agus Buaidh (Death and Victory)

GG.


 

Posted by: GG 2nd Jun 2011, 08:11am

I should say that my initial interest in the Robroyston Wallace Monument and Well comes from the fact that I, like many on the boards, grew up in the area quite close to the site. It was a beacon of inspiration to me, as I surveyed the economic decline and decay of Sprigburn, to know that just a short distance away there was a place of so much historical importance. I am very disappointed that the site has been spoiled, denying children today a similar opportunity to visit and peacefully reflect on the historical importance of the place.

GG.

Posted by: RonD 2nd Jun 2011, 12:04pm

QUOTE (Duncan Fenton @ 1st Jun 2011, 09:24am) *
I have also written to the City Council on many occasions about the damage surrounding the well, suggesting various road safety measures that could be used to make the site more pedestrian-friendly. They rejected them all. The only concession I got was to change the "Give Way" sign to a larger one. I requested a "Stop" sign, but was told you need special permission from the Secretery of State for Scotland for that!!

In the last few months, however, it seems they are putting plans in place for a way of protecting the wall before it is rebuilt, & a general upgrade of the well area. We will be keeping watch with interest.

Through the efforts of valued friends, the site surrounding the monument itself is now looking better than it has for many years, after decades of neglect & indifference from the council.


Posted by: TeeHeeHee 2nd Jun 2011, 12:23pm

I wonder, seriously, what the issue is with the Glasgow councillors. Do they see the whole Wallace thing as a symbol for Scottish independence; better forgotten? My all tme hero as a kid was David Livingstone; a son of the town where I was brought up. To his memory there stands the Livingstone Memorial Church on Main Street, Blantyre with a statue of the famous man in an alcove high on the outside wall near the entrance. Down on the banks of the Clyde the old mill where he was born and raised was turned into the David Livingstone National Memorial where I spent many. many, summer days soakin' up the life and times of my hero - I was fortunate enough to have an older brother who worked as gardener there.
Livingstone dedicated his adult life to the fight against slavery on religious grounds.
Wallace dedicated his life to the fight against slavery on political grounds and maybe that is the thorn in the side of the Labour councillors who would rather not see a division with England and therefor not see symbols of Scotland's division given place of prominence.
Of course I could be wrong ... nothin' new there ... but I keep comin' back to Why?
If it's not the cost, then Why?
What's holding them back? Political reasons?

Posted by: wee davy 2nd Jun 2011, 03:52pm

I could've sworn I posted something on here! lol

Well, I think there's an element of truth behind what you say, THEE.
But as has been said before on this topic, PEOPLE POWER can bring about some pretty impressive results.

I would also advocate some really radical action, by the Scottish population, & not just Glasgow to put this wrong, to rights. Where's your pride, Scotland.

Were RIGHT BEHIND YOU lol wink.gif

Posted by: Melody 2nd Jun 2011, 08:37pm

Maybe Alex Salmond could find a few bob in The Scottish Parliament to sort this out.

Posted by: Guest 3rd Jun 2011, 08:28am

Following a meeting some time ago between some of our guys at the SOWW & the council, things are starting to happen. Thanks, Dennis.


Work should be completed with the next few weeks.

Posted by: *Sheila* 3rd Jun 2011, 10:43am

This is heartbreaking to see the state of Wallace's Well. With all the seats the SNP gained at the recent election why is no-one coming forward to deal with this? Forget Glasgow's Labour council - this is where they show their true colours - they don't have Scotland's interest at heart - for years they've been happy to accept what scraps Westminster has thrown them, we all know that. Scotland's history matters little to them they'd be happy for schools to wipe Wallace's name from the history books. Come Up ScotNats lets see what our votes count for!! Don't allow the desecration of our heritage and attend to the last days of Wallace's life in Scotland.

If you choose to do nothing when something as major as this happens then you WILL lose the faith and credibility of the people of Scotland AND freedom loving nations of the world.

Posted by: albageorgia 3rd Jun 2011, 10:56am

Who are these councillors, they would rather spend money on a monument for nelson mandela than protect anything to do with SCOTLANDS history, they make me sick.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 3rd Jun 2011, 11:40am

Thanks for posting the picture "Guest". wink.gif
A decent sized carpark near by and a marked pedestrian crossing should be next on the list to make use of this important historical attraction.

Posted by: RonD 3rd Jun 2011, 11:56am

QUOTE (Guest @ 3rd Jun 2011, 09:36am) *
Following a meeting some time ago between some of our guys at the SOWW & the council, things are starting to happen. Thanks, Dennis. ...
Work should be completed with the next few weeks.

How recent is this photograph?

Posted by: Duncan Fenton 3rd Jun 2011, 12:28pm

I took this photo on Thursday 2nd June 2011.

Posted by: wee davy 3rd Jun 2011, 06:58pm

Thank you Duncan.
Ach it makes the cockles warm, right enuf!
Oor campaign seems tae huv hud pretty spectacular results LOL laugh.gif

Well done, to everyone concerned.

wee davy

Posted by: The Callands Rebel 3rd Jun 2011, 07:15pm

Hello from Roasting Virginia

At the very least my faith in the Scots answering the call to duty
has been rekindled. You a group after me own heart.

One might say the "yank" is nosing end but my 4 clan families were highlanders many centuries past and so goes the offspring.

Thanks to the glasgow guide as well for bringing the "travesty" to you Patriots and concerned Scots.

I wouldn't mind sharing a pint or two with any of ya.

"Freedom"

Jerry Wells

Posted by: Rabbie 5th Jun 2011, 02:38am

QUOTE (RonD @ 3rd Jun 2011, 01:04pm) *
How recent is this photograph?

What a difference!:)

An no a'fore time too. Kudos to whoeffer kicked the lackadaisical swines into action.

Now as a further improvement lets render the encroaching; over priced legoland, yuppie hovelettles back into arable farming land with coo's, sheep grazing those bonnie rolling braes.

How dare these inept Town Hole lackeys allow such desecration to occur in this beautiful area, necessary development my backside.

..M behind it and plenty of greasy buff envelopes passing under the tables in sleazy coffee shops and shin kicking around the council rid circle.

Wullies Well is special, it's in the blood as it were. Ye cannea go there and no feel something, well I cannea, it's ethereal.

Dinnea stand fur it you fowks up there.

Kick erse, use legislation to oppose and slow greedy money grubbing developers down. It works and is most enjoyable sending them smug, weasel tongued suits packing.

Someone else's problem? Not really, send them packing again:)

Most importantly, give the local Council hell fur leather, after all we pay to keep the pen pushing public servants in a job. Remind them of that, they will love you.

Demand service(s) for yer money, it's yer right.

Freedom!

Posted by: tamhickey 5th Jun 2011, 03:40am

Much as I don't like the present council administration, it's good to see some action being taken to preserve this historic site. I think much of the previous inaction was very much a political decision, particularly in the run up to the recent elections where the Labour led council may have felt they may stimulate interest amongst the electorate in Independence. They would say that just prior to the elections, that no public bodies should do anything that may be construed as political.
I know about this as my wife was helping to film something for NHS (Scotland) and although the film was completed, it was not allowed to be screened until after the election in case it was seized upon as a political issue by any of the main parties.
The worst part of this decision? It was a film made with the assistance of young people who had had suicidal thoughts, and gave advice about who to turn to in times of crisis.
It made my blood boil that this advice was not able to be put out earlier in case of political posturing.
This was advised by the NHS although who advised them about the decision I don't know.
The film can be viewed on Facebook on the "Nae Drama" page, but to my mind it should have gone beyond politics and should have been screened earlier. You never know who could have been helped.

Posted by: wellfield 6th Jun 2011, 04:12am

Thanks Duncan for posting that picture of the repairs.

Posted by: GG 6th Jun 2011, 07:55am

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 2nd Jun 2011, 12:31pm) *
I wonder, seriously, what the issue is with the Glasgow councillors. Do they see the whole Wallace thing as a symbol for Scottish independence; better forgotten? ... Wallace dedicated his life to the fight against slavery on political grounds and maybe that is the thorn in the side of the Labour councillors who would rather not see a division with England and therefor not see symbols of Scotland's division given place of prominence.
Of course I could be wrong ... nothin' new there ... but I keep comin' back to Why?
If it's not the cost, then Why?
What's holding them back? Political reasons?

QUOTE (tamhickey @ 5th Jun 2011, 03:48am) *
Much as I don't like the present council administration, it's good to see some action being taken to preserve this historic site. I think much of the previous inaction was very much a political decision, particularly in the run up to the recent elections where the Labour led council may have felt they may stimulate interest amongst the electorate in Independence. They would say that just prior to the elections, that no public bodies should do anything that may be construed as political. ...

Thanks THH & Tam. Quite a few people have postulated that the wanton municipal neglect of the site of Wallace's Well and Monument at Robroyston has been motivated by political 'sensitivites' on the part of the Labour-controlled council, i.e. that any promotion of the sites might ferment a sense of Scottish nationalism in Glasgow. If this was the case, then the comments of the former Labour First Minister Henry McLeish following his party's capitulation in the recent Scottish elections might make interesting reading. McLeish said that the Labour party could counter the SNP's popularity by developing an identity and outlook "embracing pride and patriotism and wrapping them in the Saltire". Could we see this beginning at Robroyston? Personally, I hae ma doots!

GG.

Posted by: GG 6th Jun 2011, 08:14am

QUOTE (RonD @ 3rd Jun 2011, 01:04pm) *
How recent is this photograph?

QUOTE (Rabbie @ 5th Jun 2011, 02:46am) *
What a difference!:) ...

I'll check the progress of repairs later this week, if I get the chance, and also maybe take more photographs (the original photos in this topic were taken in May 2011). The main issue is, of course (according to the poll), whether the council is going to take steps to protect the site of Wallace's Well – physically and legislatively. There's no point constantly spending money repairing the wall, as, eventually, it's going to get to the stage where it is unrepairable. Let's hope there's significant and effective road signage and traffic management solutions on the agenda also.

GG.

Posted by: RonD 6th Jun 2011, 12:16pm

Thanks Duncan both for the photo and the response as to its date. It is a breath of fresh air. With the encroachment of development in the area. I have to wonder why people living in the area wouldn't form an association that can act as a watch dog for future abuses to the sites. Not all residents would care but I'm sure there are enough with some sort of historical respect that could be catalysts for remedy of any future deteriation of the sites.

Posted by: *Charlie* 6th Jun 2011, 03:15pm

The council's have no cash to spare, its the same hear in falkirk, what to do is aproach the council and ask if you get help to restore the wall if yes, what to do is put an advert in the Evening Times asking there is any brickies retired or working willing to give a couple off hours a week and volunteers to assist the bricklayers fetching the stones. I know it should be drystone dykers but they are in such demand it would pointless to even try. I presume it is stone and not brick I had a go at my friends wall certainly it was only 2 mtrs high but I managed to make it look like like a dry stone by hiding the cement (quick drying. This was about 7 year ago and its still good despite his grandchildren giving it a rough time. Its food for thought.

Thanks Charlie.

Posted by: GG 8th Jun 2011, 12:26am

Thanks, Charlie, good advice!

The following three photos were taken over the course of the last year at Wallace's Well: June 2010, December 2010 and May 2011. Combined, they show the sustained, long-term level of wanton neglect of this site of national historical importance.






Much more worring, for anyone interested in preserving the well, is the plan for a massive new housing development at Robroyston, bringing levels of traffic around Wallace's Well (gold dot) and the Wallace Monument to truly frightening levels. The new development will dwarf the existing developments by a factor of at least five times.


GG.

Posted by: Rabbie 8th Jun 2011, 02:14pm

Jings!

How can developments of that scale be justified, is there a "real need" for these massive private developments, other than developers and corporate greed. More than likely an exchange of a few bulging buff envelopes between greasy palms in Ye Auld Town Hole behind this too.

Is Glasgow undergoing a massive population explosion or suffering from a mass yuppie influx or an infestation of a shower o' gormless numpties in the misplanning depot?

Them cookie cutter, legoland breeze block piles are totally unsympathetic to the local environment It's such a bonny area up there with historic connections and ah have many fond memories of Sunday walks over the 1/4 mile bridge watching the puffer trains going under it and getting covered in soot! The Saughs, Lumloch Pit used to be a lovely walk and you wid be unlucky if you ever encountered a car. as fur the smell at the farm, bracing stuff!

Seems like the roads aroond there are rat runs fur posing yuppies to cruise around in their 4 wheel drive camel killers, knocking down walls and walkers.

Take yer posh hooses, yuppies and stick em somewhere else, like umm, London! Aye, I did think aboot the obvious but London is a bigger keechhole than that.

There are plenty of derelict sites in the City instead of sticking Tesco aircraft hangers, DIY and Sofa Shops an then like on them, maybe social and affordable house could be built. Thereby obviating the need to pollute green sites with overpriced yuppy hoosing.

Those houses up Robroyston at the monument are not what I would call "affordable", where the in the name of the wee man does that kind of money come from, I would love to know. I would wager that is is not likely to be gained from a decent living. tongue.gif

Posted by: *Arlene* 8th Jun 2011, 04:20pm

I don't get this all......... surely, if there is loads of developments then there is loads of cash coming into the koffers of the cooncil? So why not spend a couple of bob on a few signs and speedy bumps? The added bonus would be that they wouldnae have to keep employing the time of - as Charlie said - busy drystone dykers. And not to mention the fact that surely also the good citizens traveling to their plush new homes don't want to navigate piles of boulders from drystone walls lying about the road???

Simples!

Posted by: Guest 8th Jun 2011, 08:37pm

Couldn't have said it better maself Rabbie!

I'm fed up with these yuppies thinking its ok to take every bit of green space in the city just because they have a bit of financial reserves.

Let's get back to old fashioned community values, that's what I say.

Posted by: Rabbie 9th Jun 2011, 12:41am

QUOTE (*Arlene* @ 8th Jun 2011, 05:28pm) *
I don't get this all......... surely, if there is loads of developments then there is loads of cash coming into the koffers of the cooncil? So why not spend a couple of bob on a few signs and speedy bumps? The added bonus would be that they wouldnae have to keep employing the time of - as Charlie said - busy drystone dykers. And not to mention the fact that surely also the good citizens traveling to their plush new homes don't want to navigate piles of boulders from drystone walls lying about the road???

Simples!

Simple is too complex for Town Hole flunkies and shiny ersed pen pushing flaff to understand. Yet, may I commend your motion to the hoose, Arlene.

Signage would be a good start. As fur dry stain dykes, my lips are sealed.

Anywan aroond here with artistic tendencies?

Posted by: Sidney 9th Jun 2011, 12:54am

QUOTE
Those houses up Robroyston at the monument are not what I would call "affordable", where the in the name of the wee man does that kind of money come from, I would love to know. I would wager that is is not likely to be gained from a decent living. tongue.gif

This is a slur on the hardworking people of Robroyston who dare to aspire to owning a decent home in a decent area. These homes are owned by professional people, such as lawyers, teachers or medical professionals.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 9th Jun 2011, 01:10am

QUOTE
I would wager that is is not likely to be gained from a decent living. tongue.gif

Well, Rabbie ...

QUOTE
These homes are owned by professional people, such as lawyers ...

... you've won your bet. tongue.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 9th Jun 2011, 02:55am

QUOTE (Sidney @ 9th Jun 2011, 02:02am) *
This is a slur on the hardworking people of Robroyston who dare to aspire to owning a decent home in a decent area. These homes are owned by professional people, such as lawyers, teachers or medical professionals.

No too bad Sid, it is not a slur, it is a fact and I mean it. Owned I doubt, as the state owns us awe, absolutely.

Since when did a teacher or nurse command a salary that could mortgage a 0.5M yuppie hovel? I have many relations in two decent professions up there!

Lawyers... pftt.

Are you deriving that other professions are not deserving of such plush accommodations?

Bridge to Engine Room... Warp Factor 9!

Posted by: GG 9th Jun 2011, 07:42am

I did a quick calculation on mortgage repayments on a Cala Inglewood property at Wallacefield, Robroyston. I assumed that the buyer had 25% of the purchase price up front, i.e. 103,750 of the 415,000 price. This would mean a current monthly repayment fee of 1,780.23 ... a wee bit pricey for a nurse or a teacher? If they've only got a 10% deposit, the monthly repayments would jump to about 2,200!

Cala Wallacefield publicity spiel:

QUOTE
Wallacefield offers a range of 4 and 5 bedroom detached new homes and lies just to the north of the Glasgow suburb of Robroyston, where the City of Glasgow gives way to East Dunbartonshire close to Bishopbriggs and Lenzie.

It is a land rich in history. The area has strong links to William Wallace and is the site of his capture by the English. A monument can be found close by in honour of him. Robroyston was also home to one of Glasgow’s early 20th century municipal hospitals.

In recent years this semi-rural location has grown as a popular residential setting, being well situated for the needs of today’s discerning family. Just eight miles from Glasgow’s city centre, Robroyston lies just a short distance from the M80 motorway and is therefore connected to the central belt’s motorway network and providing easy access to both Edinburgh and Stirling.

Wallace was, of course, not "captured by the English", rather, he was captured by forces loyal to – and acting on the orders of – a Scottish lord, Sir John Monteith, a one-time ally of the former Guardian of Scotland.

GG.

Posted by: Rabbie 9th Jun 2011, 12:24pm

Thanks for the gen Martin, looking at those figures even some decent QC's would struggle to keep up the mortgage repayments and fill the BMW up. No sure how many units have been built but that's sure a lot of Lawyers living up there, the sewage system must be overloaded.

We did have problems with developers trying to build unnecessary rubbish in our wee village, got the local parish council on it and blocked prelim planning persmission right off the bat, sent the greesy swines aff wi the tail between their legs.

Discerning families, my arseum!

Anywan with a mere iota of common dug wit widnea be ripped aff and fork oot such astronomical sums for a pile of breeze blocks, it no like they are "exclusive properties" It's disgusting that they have been allowed to encroach on such a sacred site. Retrospective demolition should be applied for, seek out a breech of planning regs and return the land to arable farming or woodland.

Wan thing is certain, Wallace's Well and his memory will still be around when those exorbitant piles have crumbled to dust hopefully along with the capitalistic piggery system that generated them.

The spin / sales patter merchants cannea even get some basic, simple historical fact, right. Captured by the Engleesh, a primary 1 wean wid ken better. Well in oor day at any rate.

That turncoat Monteith has a lot to answer for. Did he no get his just deserts at the end of a pike? smile.gif

Posted by: Guest 9th Jun 2011, 05:30pm

Mr Glasgow Guide, may I congratulate you and all your friends on this forum for the sterling work done in raising the profile of what is happening at Wallacefield.

Lou. Cheerio.

Posted by: beezzneezz1 9th Jun 2011, 11:34pm

hi, i passed the sight of wallaces well today ...THEY WERE FIXING THE WALL....it looks perfect now...yeehaa biggrin.gif

Posted by: Duncan Fenton 21st Jun 2011, 12:08am

Here are photos taken last Sunday.

The wall has been underpinned & totally rebuilt. It will now be repointed. The steps have been replaced, & the old concrete floor in front of the well removed & replaced by Caithness slabs.

The 6 foot weeds have been uprooted from the burn, which has been widened & deepened allowing a faster flow of water which should prevent stagnation in the future.

It will be a massive transformation when it is complete.

It looks as though we will get chevron marker boards in front of the wall, but we will still push for speedbumps, although this idea has been rejected in the past.

It is heartwarming to see this finally taking shape after 15 years of struggle.




 

Posted by: GG 21st Jun 2011, 10:53pm

Thanks, Duncan, I've not been out for a few weeks, but hope to go shortly.

It's good to see that there has been some progress at the site to restore Wallace's Well to its former state, even enhance some aspects of it. However, leaving aside the many years of council neglect for a moment, the over-riding priority just now is to put in place measures which will safeguard the well from further destruction. It will simply not be good enough for the council to walk away from this after repairing the damage which was easily preventable in the first place. There has to be a traffic management plan in place which will take into account the huge increase in traffic over the last five years. As you say, speed-bumps, perhaps, most definitely better sign-posting, both in terms of traffic warning and also to highlight the site (and the nearby Wallace Monument) as sites of national importance.

I also think that Historic Scotland should be made to reconsider its disrgaceful decision of 1993, when it quietly – with the support of the then district council – stripped Wallace's Well of its protected 'B'-listed status, deciding that the site was "of little historical interest".

Yourself, the Society of William Wallace and the http://www.robroyston.org site do a good job of raising awareness of the issues, but at some point someone with power needs to get involved to stand up for these two sites that are, most definitely, of significant historical interest. The silence of our elected representatives at all levels has been deafening.

GG.

Posted by: GG 22nd Jun 2011, 12:46am

QUOTE (GG @ 21st Jun 2011, 11:01pm) *
Yourself, the Society of William Wallace and the http://www.robroyston.org site do a good job of raising awareness of the issues ...

... And, of course, the late David Ross:

http://video.stv.tv/bc/scotland-history-20080530-hidden-glasgow-wallace-monument/

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 22nd Jun 2011, 01:20am

Marvelous news. Heart-warmin' picture.
A first step in the required direction of preserving this historic feature.
It must not be allowed to become a make-do-and-mend measure.

Posted by: Scotsman 22nd Jun 2011, 01:48pm

I think I have said this before about this topic ( getting old ohmy.gif ) but what exactly is stopping the cooncil putting up the road signs and speed bumps? I really don't get it as surely this would be much cheaper than keeping having to repair a wall which will one day at this rate end up being unrepairable.

Posted by: Duncan Fenton 16th Jul 2011, 09:16am

I have umpteen letters from HS quoting all silly & weak reason for not re-listing the well. The only way this will be resolved is post-independence, when this Westminster-run government quango is forced out of existence & replaced by a body who actually care about Scotland’s heritage. The abrupt & high-handed tone of some of the replies I have received are a disgrace.

QUOTE (Scotsman @ 22nd Jun 2011, 01:41pm) *
I think I have said this before about this topic ( getting old ohmy.gif ) but what exactly is stopping the cooncil putting up the road signs and speed bumps? I really don't get it as surely this would be much cheaper than keeping having to repair a wall which will one day at this rate end up being unrepairable.

I have been told that there is a law which prevents speedbumps being installed on a road with no street lighting. We are trying to do a work-around with the council on this. I think there are exceptional circumstances here.

I have been informed that the road signage problem will now be addressed, which we have campaigned for since the first houses went up in 1999. As more rounabouts & roadworks went in, people couldn't find their way to the annual commemoration in August.

Posted by: *Delia* 15th Aug 2011, 05:52am

Is there any update on progress at the site?

Delia.

Posted by: Guest 16th Aug 2011, 07:25pm

There had been some work at the site a couple of months ago as I viewed it every day when working, and back to school tomorrow! Look forward to seeing how it has progressed.

Posted by: GG 16th Aug 2011, 09:57pm

Funnily enough, Delia, there was an article in the Scottish Daily Mail yesterday about the Robroyston Wallace Monument and Wallace's Well. I can't find it online (the SDM doesn't put content online), though I do have the paper version somewhere. I'll look it out and relay the contents.

Duncan, don't know if you saw this artilce, but email me and I will send on a copy. There's a couple of rather questionable quotes from Historic Scotland.

GG.

Posted by: GG 23rd Aug 2011, 07:49pm

A reference in the Scotsman today to the Robroyston Wallace monument from columnist Hugh Reilly:

QUOTE
Hugh Reilly: Labour again on the wrong side of history

I often wonder what became of Wullie Melrose. Affectionately known as Melly by his friends (and Smelly by his enemies), he was an early version of Bear Grylls. If feeling peckish, he would nibble strangely coloured plants, his vegetarian snack washed down by sooking water from puddles.

One day, he and I were in the rhubarb fields of Robroyston and, as was his wont, he gorged on several stalks of unripened rhubarb. Half an hour later, we chanced upon a dilapidated monument to some loser called William Wallace. To us, he was an unknown warrior. From our History lessons, we knew Richard the Lionheart had given Moslem squatters a bit of a kicking in the Holy Land and we could recite the names of most Tudor and Plantagenet monarchs. But this mysterious Wallace character appeared to be Scottish and, as such, did not merit a mention in the history curriculum of our school.

As I read the inscription, Melly suddenly darted behind a large tree and screamed as the purging effect of chomping on unwashed rhubarb rapidly drained his digestive system. Being a good pal, I tossed some dock leaves in his direction to assist the clean-up operation.

Thanks to Mel Gibson's Braveheart, the Wallace Monument has been refurbished. Historians believe it is the spot where Wallace was betrayed and carted off to London for execution. In any other land, this site would have been preserved for visitors to imagine the freedom fighter lying in the long grass, seeking to evade capture. Instead, due to the scale of the Wimpey housing surrounding the memorial, a tourist could be forgiven for thinking Wallace was caught hiding in the insulated loft of a three-bed sem. ...

Full article here:
http://news.scotsman.com/hughreilly/Hugh-Reilly-Labour-again-on.6823396.jp

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 24th Aug 2011, 11:09am

From the same article ...

QUOTE
I'm speculating here, but Scotland must be the only country in the world where teaching children the history of their own nation is perceived to be treason. The idea that introducing Scottish Studies to the national curriculum is brainwashing our children is farcical beyond belief. By this flawed logic, allowing biology students to dissect creatures increases the likelihood of turning them into limbs-in-the-loch killers.


When I went to Scotland with big Kriss, the German - TeeHee's Trip - two of the things to see on Kriss' list were
i) the battlefield at Falkirk and
ii) Rob Roy's grave.
We found Rob Roy's grave with great difficulty after stoppin' at wee shop somewhere in the likely area and asking.
I think if you go down this wee road somewhere you might find it.
But the battlefield was a maybe/maybe not job where even the tourist information people at the site of the Falkirk Wheel had absolutely no clue.
After a long search we did eventually find a commemorative post, on a dangerous bend on a road, which stated that the battle might have taken place in one of the adjacent fields so we had to find a safe place to park-up and the task then was to look through all the fields and work out which one would be the most likely venue for a full scale battle.
We selected our field and; using my German Army bayonet which I'd brought along as a camping tool, cut out a wee patch of grass to put into a wee flat sweetie tin for Kriss (who knew more about Wallace than I did) to bring back home to Germany - where his wee bit of the battlefield still flourishes after 2 years.

Yes, Mr Reilly has made a good point; sad to say ... hidden history indeed.
Mary thought Rob Roy was a fictional character but she's part Swiss where their greatest hero; William Tell, was fictional - so she can be forgiven. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 24th Aug 2011, 12:05pm

I should be interested to know when Scottish history ceased to be taught in Scottish schools. I attended the High School of Glasgow 1951-59 and, although latterly I dropped history in favour of geography, my memory is that I was taught more Scottish history than English.

Posted by: Mathieson 24th Aug 2011, 12:18pm

"Thanks to Mel Gibson's Braveheart, the Wallace Monument has been refurbished."

Unfortunately, at the foot of the path up to the monument they also erected an extremely tacky stone plinth bearing a remarkable likeness of Mel Gibson done up in his Bravheart character. dry.gif

Posted by: Elma 24th Aug 2011, 05:13pm

I was wondering the same, Bilbo, when I attended Hillhead High from '48 to '53 we were taught all Scottish history, a little bit of English, Ethelred, William the Conqueror etc. and then when James VI took over England. Robert the Bruce was always my hero with Wallace a distant second but I still think that the Wallace monument should be restored. As for the Mel Gibson 'Braveheart' I think he should be the one hanged, drawn and quartered for that awful rendition of a Scottish hero.

Posted by: bilbo.s 24th Aug 2011, 06:07pm

The best that can be said for Mel Gibson is that he made many aware of Scotland´s existence. Hopefully some went on from there.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 24th Aug 2011, 06:08pm

Say, buddy, is that Scatlan' Englan'? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Heather 24th Aug 2011, 09:38pm

I'm another one who was at School in the 1950s and was taught Scottish History.

I must ask my g'daughter who goes to St. Ambrose High School in Coatbridge if they get taught Scottish History there.

Who decided to drop it and why is Alec Salmond not shouting about it???

It seems very odd not to teach Scottish History in Scottish Schools.

Aye Elma, like me you must have been appalled at the liberty Mel Gibson took with the story of Wallace.
Typical Hollywood.

Posted by: graeme01 25th Aug 2011, 11:12am

My recollection of history lessons at school was that we were taught nothing about Scottish history at all. It was almost exclusively English, 1066 and all that. Certainly nothing was taught about great Scottish patriots like Wallace or Bruce.

Posted by: bilbo.s 25th Aug 2011, 11:37am

QUOTE (graeme01 @ 25th Aug 2011, 01:58pm) *
My recollection of history lessons at school was that we were taught nothing about Scottish history at all. It was almost exclusively English, 1066 and all that. Certainly nothing was taught about great Scottish patriots like Wallace or Bruce.

May we ask your age group and where you attended school ?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 25th Aug 2011, 05:37pm

I attended school from 62 till 72, and got taught very little Scottish history, which infuriated my dad when he was reading my secondary school history book, having told him we were to study about the reign of England's king Henry VIII, he told me to ask the teacher, who was on the Scottish throne when Henry was crowned. So the next day while Mr McDougall was waxing lyrical about King Henry i put my hand and asked him the question, he stopped in his track's, glared at me as though i had just kicked his dog and mumbled that it was not what the lesson was about, that it was for another lesson. Funnily enough that lesson never came. And just in case there is an elderly ex history teacher by the name of McDougall reading this (and anyone else who is interested) the answer was James IV 1488-1513.

Posted by: wee davy 25th Aug 2011, 06:52pm

QUOTE (graeme01 @ 25th Aug 2011, 11:58am) *
My recollection of history lessons at school was that we were taught nothing about Scottish history at all. It was almost exclusively English, 1066 and all that. Certainly nothing was taught about great Scottish patriots like Wallace or Bruce.


I'm guessing (because for some reason you appear not to want us to know when you were born) you were 60s/70s schooled, graeme?

Scottish History WAS on the curriculum then - but not EVERY school had Wullie. I know this for sure, as I recall pals being enthralled by my tails of this 'derring do' character.

One of the main reasons for this, was the one & only reference book for much of the mid 20th Century) - was in the form of (very poor) poetry - which in itself was inconsistent to say the least! Most would agree, much of the better literature surrounding the period, has been produced, in the latter half of the century - which I recommend ALL of Scottish descent to familiarise themselves with!

For one thing, he was many things - but he certainly was NOT a sweet romantic!

The main thing, was he was a RIGHT pain in Longshanks' rectum - until his dying breath!

Scots Wha Hay

PS Don't knock Mel too much folks - he done a lot to regenerate the interest

Posted by: Heather 25th Aug 2011, 08:08pm

Your right Wee Davy he did make Wallace well known world wide.

I remember my American neice telling me that when Braveheart was shown in New Jersey, all the teenagers were on their feet cheering on the Scots when they were fighting the English. laugh.gif

Posted by: Harvey 26th Aug 2011, 02:32am

Out of 19 locations where Braveheart was filmed, 13 were in Ireland. For example, the "battle of Stirling Bridge" was filmed on the Curragh Plains in Co Kildare. Even more bizarre, Edinburgh castle scenes were filmed at Dunsoghiy (sic) castle in Dublin. (Info from wikpeadia.)

Why in the name of the wee man were they filming Scottish scenes in Ireland?

Despite this I enjoyed the film. It gave Scotland and its history a temporary boost.

In Oz as I suspect in other Ccommonwealth countries and certainly in the USA, Ireland has a much higher profile than Scotland - and Ireland (Eire)
isn't even in the C'wealth. I'm half Irish btw.

Seen from 12,000 miles away, I'm afraid London is smothering Scotland.

In the late 40's I had a music teacher who made the class sing "There'll
always be an England" (does England mean as much to you as England means to me?) and we were all saying under our breath - naw it disnae.
Ye could'nae make it up. Aye, the more things change the more they stay the same.

Posted by: Melody 26th Aug 2011, 08:39am

I think we don't sell ourselves well enough. The Irish seem much better at promoting themselves somehow. No offense, I've got loads of Irish family.

I've been on holiday at some of Scotland's prime locations for tourism and found our hospitality sadly lacking in some hotels. It can sound funny and quaint an hotelier saying, ' And, at what time is it that you'll be requiring hot water?' laugh.gif Or. ' Don't open that window will you? You see it causes a draught in the hall.' laugh.gif Not good enough though. sad.gif I think it's something in our nature.

Posted by: bilbo.s 26th Aug 2011, 09:41am

You are right, Melody. With a few exceptions, tourist hotels in Scotland do little to enhance the reputation of Scottish hospitality. I always was lucky with B&Bs as opposed to hotels, but I am now shocked at the extortionate prices they charge - it's the old joke " I merely want to use your bed, not purchase it."

My last memories of the Scottish tourist industry are that is is almost entirely manned by Europeans and Colonials- I used to ask Australians who was minding the store back home. This situation is caused partly by poor wages but also by the fact that British people do not like positions deemed servile, while other nations regard serving others as an honour. Members of my own family visiting us in Spain have made remarked upon the number of males serving in cafes and rstaurants, as if it is somehow demeaning. I have nothing against young people from other lands visiting Scotland and taking summer (?) jobs but lt should not be expected of them entirely to uphold standards.

Posted by: ashfield 26th Aug 2011, 09:49am

QUOTE (Harvey @ 26th Aug 2011, 04:18am) *
Why in the name of the wee man were they filming Scottish scenes in Ireland?


Dead simple, the Irish gave the company making the film bigger tax breaks. It was all down to economics and nothing to do with locations.

Posted by: Heather 26th Aug 2011, 11:50am

That's true Ash.
So we now have parts of Glasgow especially George Square done up to look like Philadelphia and the natives seem to be enjoying it as well as the City Father's with the money it will bring in to the town.

They say Glasgow was picked because parts of it looks like Philadelphia, and although I've been in Philly it was only for a day and too long ago to remember what it looked like.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 26th Aug 2011, 12:49pm

Probably like Glasgow on a rainy day ... but dearer. laugh.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 26th Aug 2011, 01:51pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 26th Aug 2011, 10:35am) *
Dead simple, the Irish gave the company making the film bigger tax breaks. It was all down to economics and nothing to do with locations.

True Ash, that's why World War Z is being filmed here, as Philadelphia couldn't give the makers a definite tax break level, so instead of waiting on them deciding they moved production to the UK picking Glasgow as the only city in the UK to resemble Philadelphia (Buildings, street grid layout).

Posted by: GG 31st Aug 2011, 07:58am

Meant to post this earlier: the improvements to Wallace's Well over the summer can be viewed here:

http://www.robroyston.org/wallace_wallaces_well_gallery_2011june.html

Thanks to everyone who posted here and also left a message on the http://www.robroyston.org/robroyston-gb.php; it's important we keep pressure on the council to fulfill their obligations to this site of national historical interest. Now all we need are the road signs and traffic management upgrades to promote and protect both the Monument and Well!

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 31st Aug 2011, 10:14am

Happy Smiling People biggrin.gif
What a dreat difference that has made.


Posted by: Scotsman 2nd Sep 2011, 10:40am

A big improvement on what it was before.... well done!!

Posted by: Duncan Fenton 6th Sep 2011, 05:44pm

QUOTE (GG @ 16th Aug 2011, 10:43pm) *
Funnily enough, Delia, there was an article in the Scottish Daily Mail yesterday about the Robroyston Wallace Monument and Wallace's Well. I can't find it online (the SDM doesn't put content online), though I do have the paper version somewhere. I'll look it out and relay the contents.

Duncan, don't know if you saw this artilce, but email me and I will send on a copy. There's a couple of rather questionable quotes from Historic Scotland.

GG.

The reporter who did the article phoned me for input. We spent over an hour on the phone & I later sent him an e-mail with some quotes that he requested.

When the piece was printed, it was all edited out. Reporter e-mailed me back to apologise, but it's up to the editor.

Posted by: Guest 6th Sep 2011, 05:49pm

Here is the latest development at the monument & Wallace's Well. The information boards are now up.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Society-Of-William-Wallace/323120935714#!/media/set/?set=a.10150365165745715.401970.323120935714&type=1

Posted by: Jeannine 20th Jan 2012, 05:46pm

i have only recently become a member of this board and that was to seek information on my husbands birth mother and other possible family members

however i have just come across this news story and i must say when i read the first page i was in shock that your council was going to let such a wonderful place die off, seems we all have the same opinion of Labor, ours arent much better here in Australia

however i decided to skip to the last page for an update only to be pleasantly surprised by the outcome but over joyed for you all

well done, im sure William will be proud of you and his Wall and surrounding area's look lovely, good job

i am also jealous of your green landscape considering we currently live in the outback and green is not a color we see often

Posted by: The Callands Rebel 20th Jan 2012, 06:33pm

Here's the Yank's take, again.

It still PO's me that several years ago 2009 my newly formed Camp in Glasgow offered to take over the maintenance of the Well at no "COSTS" to GLASGOW government and we were never contacted.

But we were blown off when we asked the council to recognize a glasgow born man, named Burley (Burleigh) a Confederate hero of our civil war.

Not to exhale the Confederacy or his service to but acknowledge this man was a NATIVE son.

They would have no part of it.

I expect this shallow thinking from the U.S. A politicians, but politicians are the SAME no matter the culture.

WHAT A SHAME

Jerry, the "Rebel" virginian

Posted by: William Dryden 5th Jun 2012, 09:53pm

The real traitors in Scotland are the Labour party.

Posted by: GG 18th May 2014, 05:59pm

No surprise here, just more of the same obfuscation and avoidance from Glasgow city council ... from yesterday's Herald:

QUOTE
William Wallace monument is refused by city council

An army of William Wallace enthusiasts have been refused permission to erect a monument to their hero.

In the year Scotland holds an independence reference, the group had been hoping to put up a memorial near Glasgow Cathedral to mark a battle with the English in the 13th century.

But the city council has refused to allow them to use a piece of its land at the rear of Provand's Lordship.

The Society Of William Wallace has already commissioned a work to commemorate the Battle of the Bell o' the Brae on a steep slope where High Street and Rottenrow meet.

The battle is believed to have happened in about 1300.

Members, who have already spent about 1,200 on the project, heard of the decision in a letter from Stevie Scott, the city parks and open spaces manager.

It says: "At this stage, I have taken the decision to refuse permission for the use of our land.

"I have taken this decision at this time to allow my service the opportunity to review all monuments and statues across the city's parks and public domain spaces to determine their current condition.

"I expect this exercise to commence post the 2014 Games period and would hope to be in a position to reconsider your request nearer the end of the calendar year.

"Thank you for your interest in this location."

Full story here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/william-wallace-monument-is-refused-by-city-council.24243433?utm_source=www.heraldscotland.com&utm_medium=RSS%20Feed&utm_campaign=Home%20News

GG.

Posted by: Tally Rand 20th May 2014, 03:29am

QUOTE (William Dryden @ 5th Jun 2012, 10:10pm) *
The real traitors in Scotland are the Labour party.

Labour? Traitors to all working class peoples wherever they rear their yuppie social engineering heads. " The working class can kiss my a....s, Iv'e got a pollies job at last" Sung to the tune of "The Red Flag" a song to scare the pants of any Labour politician.