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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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bilbo.s
post 17th Jun 2017, 05:19pm
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Ok, John. You have spent the better part of Saturday (hope you haven't missed any good weather!), trawling through hundreds of posts to prove your point, and you have failed miserably to prove that Jagz used the expression you quoted.

Not that I wish to encourage the neurosis which afflicts you, but perhaps you might care to spend the rest of the day, and maybe Sunday, to find examples of the gutter language of which you accuse me.

If nothing else, it may serve the purpose of keeping you occupied enough to keep you off the board for a while, and thus earn the gratitude of many including myself.

Go for it, John. We know you can do it this time! thumbup.gif I shall of course apologise if I have indeed used language universally accepted to be of the gutter. There you go - an added incentive!


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bilbo.s
post 18th Jun 2017, 02:33pm
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What do these bloody foreigners know? John lives in UK and knows better! Be like John. Live in ignorance and deny the truth!

This article in a Swiss newspaper today is so ruthlessly clear-sighted in its assessment of just how screwed we are that I just had to translate it for the non-German speakers. Hold on to your hats:

THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE
[Translation by Paula Kirby]
If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country?

Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point.

In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit.

The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem.

Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery.

Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line.

The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt.

British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand.

After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover.


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JAGZ1876
post 18th Jun 2017, 03:59pm
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rolleyes.gif Move along, nothing to see here. laugh.gif
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john.mcn
post 18th Jun 2017, 06:51pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 17th Jun 2017, 05:19pm) *
Ok, John. You have spent the better part of Saturday (hope you haven't missed any good weather!), trawling through hundreds of posts to prove your point, and you have failed miserably to prove that Jagz used the expression you quoted.

Not that I wish to encourage the neurosis which afflicts you, but perhaps you might care to spend the rest of the day, and maybe Sunday, to find examples of the gutter language of which you accuse me.

If nothing else, it may serve the purpose of keeping you occupied enough to keep you off the board for a while, and thus earn the gratitude of many including myself.

Go for it, John. We know you can do it this time! thumbup.gif I shall of course apologise if I have indeed used language universally accepted to be of the gutter. There you go - an added incentive!


I was out most of Saturday as well as today actually. I know jagz said it as does he, so it was just a matter of looking back a couple of pages to find said post, no time at all and certainly not trawling hundreds of posts.

It is funny that you respond exactly like I portrayed you, a wee wind up monkey banging its cymbals answering for jagz laugh.gif

You have since the referendum result had you on the losing side (again) abused those on here who have argued against the EU. Two long standing members came on and said they were leaving the site because of the abuse you routinely directed towards them, that may not 'universally' be referred to as 'gutter' to some but to me and I'm sure others, you are wallowing in it.


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john.mcn
post 18th Jun 2017, 06:53pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 18th Jun 2017, 02:33pm) *
What do these bloody foreigners know? John lives in UK and knows better! Be like John. Live in ignorance and deny the truth!



Didnae read it at all but just one question, is that the Switzerland that is not a member of the EU?

For those who are interested here is the actual newspaper link
http://mobile2.derbund.ch/articles/59442e3cab5c3744ba000001


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bilbo.s
post 18th Jun 2017, 07:13pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 18th Jun 2017, 08:51pm) *
I was out most of Saturday as well as today actually. I know jagz said it as does he, so it was just a matter of looking back a couple of pages to find said post, no time at all and certainly not trawling hundreds of posts.

It is funny that you respond exactly like I portrayed you, a wee wind up monkey banging its cymbals answering for jagz laugh.gif

You have since the referendum result had you on the losing side (again) abused those on here who have argued against the EU. Two long standing members came on and said they were leaving the site because of the abuse you routinely directed towards them, that may not 'universally' be referred to as 'gutter' to some but to me and I'm sure others, you are wallowing in it.



I take it that's an admission of failure then. Bit of a cop-out. Not being obsessive compulsive as you, I cannot be bothered providing evidence that you, not I, are the most foul-mouthed and dirty-minded person here. I am sure more members have left because of reading your diatribes.


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bilbo.s
post 18th Jun 2017, 07:20pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 18th Jun 2017, 08:53pm) *
Didnae read it at all but just one question, is that the Switzerland that is not a member of the EU?

For those who are interested here is the actual newspaper link
http://mobile2.derbund.ch/articles/59442e3cab5c3744ba000001


Ah, so now it is only individuals from EU countries who you permit to express their views. I guess that's
some improvement in your position! rolleyes.gif

May I ask why you have chosen to supply the above link? Perhaps you challenge the translation? wacko.gif


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angel
post 18th Jun 2017, 08:11pm
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As a matter of interest , unsure.gif

United Kingdom’s Top Trading Partners
MAY 3, 2017 BY DANIEL WORKMAN
United Kingdom’s Top Trading Partners
by Flagpictures.org
Comprised of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, the United Kingdom Republic is a sovereign state situated across from continental Europe’s north-western coast.

The United Kingdom shipped US$408. billion worth of products around the globe in 2016. That figure represents roughly 2.5% of overall global exports estimated at $16.236 trillion for the prior year 2015.

From a continental perspective in 2016, 54.3% of UK exports by value are delivered to other European trade partners while 21.2% are sold to Asian importers. United Kingdom ships another 16.7% to North America and just 2.8% to Africa.
United Kingdom’s Top Trading Partners
Top 15DeficitsSurplusesCompanies
Below is a list showcasing 15 of United Kingdom’s top trading partners in terms of export sales. That is, these are countries that imported the most UK shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total UK exports.
United States: US$60.4 billion (14.8% of total UK exports)
Germany: $43.6 billion (10.7%)
France: $25.9 billion (6.3%)
Netherlands: $25.6 billion (6.3%)
Ireland: $22.9 billion (5.6%)
Switzerland: $18.9 billion (4.6%)
China: $18 billion (4.4%)
Belgium: $15.8 billion (3.9%)
Italy: $13.1 billion (3.2%)
Spain: $12.7 billion (3.1%)
United Arab Emirates: $9 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $8.8 billion (2.2%)
Japan: $6.4 billion (1.6%)
Canada: $6.2 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.1 billion (1.5%)
Approaching three-quarters (71.7%) of UK exports in 2016 were delivered to the above 15 trade partners.

Among these top trade partners, UK exports to Switzerland rose in value at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016 via a 137.8% gain.

In second place were Chinese importers, which grew their import purchases from the UK by 123%.

Hong Kong boosted its UK imports by 58.3%.

UAE’s imports from the UK increased by 42.6% over the 7-year period.

UK exports to Spain (down -11.1%) and France (down -10.7%) diminished at the fastest rate.





See also United Kingdom’s Top 10 Imports, Highest Value UK Import Products, Highest Value UK Export Products and UK Major Trade Balances with America

Research Sources:
The World Factbook, Field Listing: Imports – Commodities, Central Intelligence Agency. Accessed on February 18, 2017

Trade Map, International Trade Centre, www.intracen.org/marketanalysis. Accessed on February 18, 2017

Investopedia, Net Importer Definition. Accessed on February 18, 2017

Forbes 2015 Global 2000 rankings, The World’s Biggest Public Companies. Accessed on February 23, 2016

UK Export Directory, Import/Export Catalog for Sourcing from the United Kingdom. Accessed on November 2, 2015











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john.mcn
post 18th Jun 2017, 08:12pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 18th Jun 2017, 07:13pm) *
I take it that's an admission of failure then. Bit of a cop-out. Not being obsessive compulsive as you, I cannot be bothered providing evidence that you, not I, are the most foul-mouthed and dirty-minded person here. I am sure more members have left because of reading your diatribes.



I reply in kind to those who call me names, I can ramp it up or cool it down. A few weeks ago I gave the forum a wee rest after several members voiced their concerns. I came back and posted but it did not take you long to start the name calling again.
I have far better things to do than go back through your posts detailing your posts, you just need to go to the street name thread and see your attitude towards a poster who mixed up Cyprus with Cypress.
I'm no posh boy that is true but I do not dish out the abuse that you do. . Thats how i am in real life as well, but i suspect you in person would be a far different, timid person than the internet hard man you think you are.

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 18th Jun 2017, 07:20pm) *
Ah, so now it is only individuals from EU countries who you permit to express their views. I guess that's
some improvement in your position! rolleyes.gif

May I ask why you have chosen to supply the above link? Perhaps you challenge the translation? wacko.gif


I did not read it, but I guessed that as you posted it that it was a pro Brexit piece that gave you an almost homoerotical experience (i take it the English translation was grammatically correct)
If it is a scathing article about the UK leaving the EU (not Europe!) then it does make it kinda hilarious that its from a country in Europe who does not want to join the EU, I guess that point passed you right by.

Gotta laugh (get that a lot reading your posts) that you're questioning my right to read what i damn well please as some sort of fascism where I'm stopping others expressing their views.
Not me marching on TV stations.

I supplied the link because you did not, of course you didnt have the link as you just copied it from facebook. Those who can speak German can read it for themselves instead of relying on anyone here or on facebook for a translation.


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bilbo.s
post 18th Jun 2017, 10:25pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 18th Jun 2017, 10:12pm) *
I reply in kind to those who call me names, I can ramp it up or cool it down. A few weeks ago I gave the forum a wee rest after several members voiced their concerns. I came back and posted but it did not take you long to start the name calling again.
I have far better things to do than go back through your posts detailing your posts, you just need to go to the street name thread and see your attitude towards a poster who mixed up Cyprus with Cypress.
I'm no posh boy that is true but I do not dish out the abuse that you do. . Thats how i am in real life as well, but i suspect you in person would be a far different, timid person than the internet hard man you think you are.



I did not read it, but I guessed that as you posted it that it was a pro Brexit piece that gave you an almost homoerotical experience (i take it the English translation was grammatically correct)
If it is a scathing article about the UK leaving the EU (not Europe!) then it does make it kinda hilarious that its from a country in Europe who does not want to join the EU, I guess that point passed you right by.

Gotta laugh (get that a lot reading your posts) that you're questioning my right to read what i damn well please as some sort of fascism where I'm stopping others expressing their views.
Not me marching on TV stations.

I supplied the link because you did not, of course you didnt have the link as you just copied it from facebook. Those who can speak German can read it for themselves instead of relying on anyone here or on facebook for a translation.



Dear guttersnipe, Thank you for the latest addition to my collection of abuse, of which you are so fond of accusing others. " Homoerotic" - love it, sheer class from the master !

Glad to see you didn't actually read an intelligent article, because of your prejudices. Says a lot! I had the link to the original article, but did not post it, as I doubt if many on this thread have any understanding of the German language., you especially. The link was included in the FB post, you bam! If you couldn't be bothered reading the English translation, you were wise ( What am I saying?) to avoid the German, as it would be Greek to you, struggling as you do with niceties in English such as punctuation. Oh, I know you ridicule such paraphernalia such as grammar and spelling. Ignorance is one thing; to be proud of it is another!

It clearly escaped your notice that the article was written by a Swiss journalist and not by the Swiss government.


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john.mcn
post 18th Jun 2017, 11:34pm
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As i said I reply in kind, run back and hide behind your curtain you sad wee angry man.

German would be German to me, where on earth do you get this rubbish you post.

I did not read it because you posted it, been there and done that for the past year.
The link may have been in the facebook post but you did not post that so I did, what the hell is your problem with that. Do you not want people to form their own opinion.

Jeez did you say that an article in a Swiss newspaper was written by a journalist, omg this is a revelation. Dont government officials moonlight at newspapers then, as i said where on earth do you dig this up.
You still cant quite grasp that you're hyping a Swiss article talking about brexit when the Swiss rejected the EU, it's hilarious even thinking about it.

As I previously said i do not give a crap about the grammar nazis out there who freak out about what is written on internet forums, get a life. That you keep going on about it when I've said before that I dont give a crap fills me with joy, in fact i laugh when i see you ranting about it.


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bilbo.s
post 19th Jun 2017, 08:53am
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wacko.gif I sense your tiny mind is about to explode! What an incredible rant! ROFL.
Attached Image


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john.mcn
post 19th Jun 2017, 08:54pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 19th Jun 2017, 08:53am) *
wacko.gif I sense your tiny mind is about to explode! What an incredible rant! ROFL.
Attached Image



Well this tiny mind seems to have no problem handling you, does that make yours even smaller laugh.gif

funny what you see as benefits i see as controlling.

The recycling culture was imposed on us, we never had a choice as our bin collection was reduced to once every 3 weeks. Even with the amount we recycle the bin has to be stamped on to get the lid shut. If we want extra uplifts we are charged, so thanks for that your EU bureaucratic twats. I'd like to see the carbon footprint of their lifestyle and compare it with the average person.

Holiday, overtime and work benefits I had long before the EU came into existence.

Animal rights, is Spain exempt from that then


loved the spin on the removal of commission on currency, in other words a single currency which only seems to benefit some countries.

Military co operation in Europe and Africa, thought there wasn't to be a EU army.

Those like EU representation on the world stage is exactly why the UK needs to leave, that is a stepping stone to them forcing a Federal states on us.

How the hell is the European arrest warrant a good thing, UK citizens should never be handed over to anyone unless a judge can be convinced of credible evidence against them.


There are good points in the EEC but the EU and it's power grab is not something people were made aware of when they joined decades ago and we were never given a vote over any of the treaties that were signed since.
They say the old swung the vote for leave but it was the young who swung it for join in the 1973, hasn't anyone figured out why those who voted to join then voted to leave over 40 years later, could it be they feel they were lied to and the EU is not what they voted for..


Either way we're leaving.


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bilbo.s
post 19th Jun 2017, 09:30pm
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I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue with you. Instead I will reply to one point to demonstrate the twistedness of your reasoning.

The recycling thing has obviously been mishandled in UK, each local authority having a different set-up, of which I had personal experience before I left. What a shambles!

Why is it that refuse collection can be at 2 or 3 week intervals and with different rules from one place to another? Surely not the fault of the EU, when in Spain the refuse is collected EVERY night, and recyclables are easily separated and disposed of quite easily.

Do not bother responding, as I will end up as daft as you, if I have to read any more of your troubled mind's outpourings.


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bilbo.s
post 19th Jun 2017, 09:49pm
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A view from Ireland. Well at least it's in the EU, and so Mr McN will have to think up another excuse to dismiss it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy...124104?mode=amp

Come on , give us a link to a sensible pro-Brexit article that does not emanate from the UK media.


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