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> Catalonia
Dykejumper
post 11th Oct 2017, 12:03am
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Could it really be that you missed the Catalonia hysteria at The Nats convention?
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john.mcn
post 11th Oct 2017, 08:28pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 10th Oct 2017, 11:40pm) *
Are you sure you have Scotland's best interests at heart John? unsure.gif

Cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.



Do you have Scotlands interest at heart by championing the SNP position of leaving the UK single market to apply join the EU where we do a 1/4 of the trade.
Remember you said you would give away all the oil just to have independence, your wee phrase suits your views a lot more than it does mine.




You seem to have blinkers on Jagz or are just being silly when you refuse to accept that Scotland Indy groups and Catalonians do not share interests, they had a delegation at the SNP conference


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bilbo.s
post 11th Oct 2017, 09:21pm
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Ye're steamin' again and I don't mean alcohol!


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JAGZ1876
post 11th Oct 2017, 09:41pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Oct 2017, 09:28pm) *
Do you have Scotlands interest at heart by championing the SNP position of leaving the UK single market to apply join the EU where we do a 1/4 of the trade.


Do you honestly expect an independent rUK would be like you and cut off it's nose to spite it's face?
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john.mcn
post 11th Oct 2017, 10:43pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 11th Oct 2017, 09:41pm) *
Do you honestly expect an independent rUK would be like you and cut off it's nose to spite it's face?



Are you still peddling that myth that Scotland, if they managed to join the EU, could write their own trade deals with countries outwith the EU. The EU makes the deals on behalf of its members, if there is no trade deal with the UK then upon being accepted (if they got in that is) an iScotland would have to impose whatever tariffs and restrictions on trade the EU instructed them to, likewise the rUK who is our biggest market would carry out the same to trade from Scotland.


Of course as in the case of Catalonia we can see that the EU and its members will not recognise any declaration of Independence if it is not legal, any referendum Sturgeon organises where there is no agreement from Westminster will not be legal. Just as a Barcelona court ruled against the regions government, a Scottish court could rule against the Scottish government, all it would take would be a company or individual to to raise an action. if the referendum went ahead then the Scottish government would have broken our own law.
All Sturgeons drum banging is to keep the likes of you on board, she has no more power to call a legal referendum than Puigdemont did


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JAGZ1876
post 11th Oct 2017, 10:58pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Oct 2017, 11:43pm) *
Are you still peddling that myth that Scotland, if they managed to join the EU, could write their own trade deals with countries outwith the EU.


No John i''m not " peddling that myth that Scotland, if they managed to join the EU, could write their own trade' deals with countries outwith the EU".

The question i'm asking you is would the rUK cease doing deals with Scotland and the rest of the EU?
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john.mcn
post 12th Oct 2017, 05:29pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 11th Oct 2017, 10:58pm) *
No John i''m not " peddling that myth that Scotland, if they managed to join the EU, could write their own trade' deals with countries outwith the EU".

The question i'm asking you is would the rUK cease doing deals with Scotland and the rest of the EU?



The UK is in negotiations to do a deal, whatever is agreed on is the one that will be applicable to all EU members including future ones. If that deal is tariffs or restrictions on freedom of movement(and it should) then it would also apply to a future iScotland if they ascended to the EU. Have you somehow missed the last year when you've been banging hollowed out logs and shouting 'freedom', the UK cannot negotiate it's own deals while we are a member of the EU, Scotland would be no different. As there is far more trade between Scotland and rUK than Scotland and the EU then any restrictions on this island would be far more damaging.

Now all this is immaterial as the UK PM will not transfer the powers needed to have another legal referendum. We can see from the EU and its members responces to Catalans referendum that they will not recognise the result of an illegal one, no spin from you or Sturgeon can make that go away.


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bilbo.s
post 12th Oct 2017, 06:22pm
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The Catalan referendum was illegal according to the Spanish Constitution. Would you care to direct us as to where it is written in the UK Constitution that Scotland cannot hold an independence referendum without the permission of Westminster? I know, I know. That's an unfair question, as the UK has no written constitution. As the old joke (truism) goes, it's not worth the paper it's not written on.


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JAGZ1876
post 12th Oct 2017, 08:33pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 12th Oct 2017, 06:29pm) *
Have you somehow missed the last year when you've been banging hollowed out logs and shouting 'freedom'

Now all this is immaterial as the UK PM will not transfer the powers needed to have another legal referendum.


You've got me confused with someone else John.

And yet in her autobiography "The Downing Street Years" Margaret Thatcher wrote.

"Should they (Scots) determine on independence no English party or politician would stand in their way, however much we might regret their departure."


I doubt if any Westminster PM would oppose another referendum.
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john.mcn
post 12th Oct 2017, 09:01pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 12th Oct 2017, 08:33pm) *
You've got me confused with someone else John.

And yet in her autobiography "The Downing Street Years" Margaret Thatcher wrote.

"Should they (Scots) determine on independence no English party or politician would stand in their way, however much we might regret their departure."


I doubt if any Westminster PM would oppose another referendum.



Thatcher has been dead a long time, the SNP and its minions need to move on instead of blaming everything on someone else. I wonder if the Catalonions keep bringing up Franco.
We have our own parliament and we had a referendum where the SNP failed to convince most people of their financial plans, to date they still dont have a convincing plan and try to win support for another referendum playing up to the grievance vote.


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bilbo.s
post 12th Oct 2017, 09:21pm
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Catalonions? wacko.gif Onion Johnnies to a man!


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JAGZ1876
post 13th Oct 2017, 11:28am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 12th Oct 2017, 10:21pm) *
Catalonions? wacko.gif Onion Johnnies to a man!


It's Glesgay banter dontcha know. biggrin.gif
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john.mcn
post 13th Oct 2017, 06:42pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 13th Oct 2017, 11:28am) *
It's Glesgay banter dontcha know. biggrin.gif



Or very simply a typo but whatever rocks you old fogies boats

Now your wee Thatcher quote intrigued me as it's not often we hear of a SNP follower hold up Thatcher in a good light so i had a look see.

The actual unedited quote is below, i suppose it would make sense on your part to delete the bold section seeing as we had a referendum on the matter just three years ago and would make your post rather pointless.

If [the Tory Party] sometimes seems English to some Scots that is because the Union is inevitably dominated by England by reason of its greater population. The Scots, being an historic nation with a proud past, will inevitably resent some expressions of this fact from time to time. As a nation, they have an undoubted right to national self-determination; thus far they have exercised that right by joining and remaining in the Union. Should they determine on independence no English party or politician would stand in their way, however much we might regret their departure. What the Scots (not indeed the English) cannot do, however, is to insist upon their own terms for remaining in the Union, regardless of the views of the others.


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bilbo.s
post 13th Oct 2017, 06:58pm
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How do you claim that that clause affects the meaning of the statement? Your lack of understanding of the English language must be suspect. Maybe you should stick to weegie talk and then we can all understand you, or at least what you say.

Thatcher said that Scotland has the right to self determination. How does mentioning that, so far, it has decided on remaining in the Union, modify that statement?


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JAGZ1876
post 14th Oct 2017, 11:44am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 13th Oct 2017, 07:42pm) *
Now your wee Thatcher quote intrigued me as it's not often we hear of a SNP follower hold up Thatcher in a good light so i had a look see.

thus far they have exercised that right by joining and remaining in the Union


Why shouldn't i quote Thatcher John?

Of course we have voted to remain so far (i never said we hadn't) we never had a choice to join though, and your quote could equally be used for our right to remain in the EU.
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