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> Catalonia
john.mcn
post 4th Oct 2017, 08:00pm
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So rather than continue being 'off topic' in the Indy thread I figured a new thread would be best.


So the highest court in Spain says the referendum was illegal, this would mean that many people would not bother voting as the voting result could not stand up anywhere in the world. By the looks of it the indy supporters still voted though and thats the reason for the high 'Si' vote but very low turnout. The Catalan authorities would have been better calling for a change in the law in the Spanish parliament or appeal to international bodies for their support.
Now as Spains court says it is illegal then the state police were sent in to prevent what would have constituted a crime if the people voted. If they were ordered to carry out 'punishments' to those voters then I certainly hope that there are repercussions from the bottom up.
After the outcry both within Spain and internationally I had hoped that the two governments would sit down and come to an agreement where a legally binding free referendum can be held and the outcome respected by both sides, but as we can see both sides seem entrenched in their belief that they are right and the other wrong. The Catalonian government looks like they will declare UDI and the Spanish government will claim it it void because the referendum was illegal, because of this most countries will not support Catalan and we could see violence in the street as those who do support Independence will no doubt protest and those who dont will also protest. If there are battles on the street between the groups then the Spanish government will send in troops and suspend the Catalonian parliament


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TeeHeeHee
post 5th Oct 2017, 11:04am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 4th Oct 2017, 08:00pm) *
So rather than continue being 'off topic' in the Indy thread I figured a new thread would be best.

QUOTE
... and we could see violence in the street as those who do support Independence will no doubt protest and those who dont will also protest.



Good idea, John.

Since a high percentage of "Si" votes were recorded among a low percentage turnout, do you not think the same percentages of turnout might be seen on the streets in protest as it would seem that those who did not support Independence kissed the King's ring so might not wish to incur the wrath of his Mossos d'Esquadra which was well documented a few days ago?


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john.mcn
post 5th Oct 2017, 07:57pm
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I think 'kissing the kings ring' is probably not the right turn of phrase to describe someone who did not support the independence cause.
Although the turnout figures have been claimed to be 42% there has been claims of irregularities and people voting more than once. To use this result to declare UDI is just madness and I'm thinking the Catalan president is looking for more confrontation chasing the grievance vote.

Spains constitutional court has suspended the parliament to prevent the declaration of Independence. The case was brought forward not by Madrid but by the Socialists' Party of Catalonia who are against Independence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41514398

The European commission has issued a statement that Catalan would be outside the EU in the event of them becoming independent.

QUOTE
Statement on the events in Catalonia


Brussels, 2 October 2017

Under the Spanish Constitution, yesterday's vote in Catalonia was not legal.
For the European Commission, as President Juncker has reiterated repeatedly, this is an internal matter for Spain that has to be dealt with in line with the constitutional order of Spain.
We also reiterate the legal position held by this Commission as well as by its predecessors. If a referendum were to be organised in line with the Spanish Constitution it would mean that the territory leaving would find itself outside of the European Union.
Beyond the purely legal aspects of this matter, the Commission believes that these are times for unity and stability, not divisiveness and fragmentation.
We call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue. Violence can never be an instrument in politics. We trust the leadership of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to manage this difficult process in full respect of the Spanish Constitution and of the fundamental rights of citizens enshrined therein.


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TeeHeeHee
post 6th Oct 2017, 10:23am
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Google's Logo of the day, today wink.gif

"Freedom is not given to you - you have to take it."
Meret Oppenheim


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john.mcn
post 6th Oct 2017, 08:28pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 6th Oct 2017, 10:23am) *
Google's Logo of the day, today wink.gif


Only in German speaking countries, the rest of us just have the plain old google
QUOTE
"Freedom is not given to you - you have to take it."
Meret Oppenheim


And that is true, but first they have to want it and there's no reason to suggest the majority of the people in Catalonia want it

I was reading a post from a Spaniard earlier where they attack the the idea from Catalonia's independence supporting parties insisting they can call for independence with the support of less MPs than is required for them to appoint the chief of the Catalonia public TV service huh.gif


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TeeHeeHee
post 6th Oct 2017, 08:46pm
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We're living in a time of "One Thousand Signatures" moving mountains it would seem.


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john.mcn
post 9th Oct 2017, 07:05pm
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All those who want another referendum without Westminsters backing take note

QUOTE
Spain Catalonia: France snubs independence bid


The French government has said it will not recognise Catalonia if it declares independence from Spain and such a move will mean expulsion from the EU.
European Affairs Minister Nathalie Loiseau said the crisis following the banned 1 October referendum had to be resolved through dialogue within Spain.
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont is expected to address the regional parliament on Tuesday.
There has been no sign of a compromise being struck with Madrid.
Economic pressure on the pro-independence camp is rising with three more companies expected to discuss moving their offices out of Catalonia on Monday, sources told Reuters news agency.

These are infrastructure firm Abertis, telecoms company Cellnex and property group Inmobiliaria Colonial.
Major lenders Caixabank and Sabadell announced earlier that they were moving their offices out of the region.
The region of Catalonia, home to 7.5 million people in the north-east, is crucial to Spain, which is the EU's fifth-biggest economy and a member of Nato.

In other developments:
Catalonia's High Court asked for Spanish national police to provide extra security at the court building in the event of the Catalan parliament declaring independence; the building is currently guarded by local police
The leader of Spain's Socialist opposition party, Pedro Sanchez, told reporters in Barcelona that his party would back government action if independence was declared unilaterally on Tuesday: "We reach out for dialogue but we'll support the response of the rule of law in the face of any attempt to break social harmony"
"If there was a declaration of independence, it would not be recognised," Ms Loiseau told French broadcaster CNews (video in French).
"The first consequence would be its exit from the European Union."

"Obviously," she added, "there is more to Catalonia than the consultation organised by the independence movement...
"This crisis needs to be resolved through dialogue at all levels of Spanish politics."
Casting doubt on the validity of the vote, she described Spain as a "great democracy" and pointed to the "particularly" high level of devolution its regions already enjoyed.
However, Catalans have long been calling for more say in spending, higher status for their language and recognition that they are a nation distinct from Spain.


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bilbo.s
post 9th Oct 2017, 09:37pm
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Heartwarming to note the concern and interest shown in the affairs of Spain by those with no personal interest in the Catalan situation, and who regularly attempt to deny the right of comment on Scottish/ UK matters to those of us Scots who live abroad, especially those who still have British nationality and even retain the right to vote in UK elections.

What rank hypocrisy! Gawn ya mugs ye!


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wombat
post 9th Oct 2017, 09:54pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 9th Oct 2017, 10:37pm) *
Heartwarming to note the concern and interest shown in the affairs of Spain by those with no personal interest in the Catalan situation, and who regularly attempt to deny the right of comment on Scottish/ UK matters to those of us Scots who live abroad, especially those who still have British nationality and even retain the right to vote in UK elections.

What rank hypocrisy! Gawn ya mugs ye!


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john.mcn
post 9th Oct 2017, 10:44pm
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A bit of a difference between a discussion on THE topic of the week and some wee greeting faced sod whinging and greeting for over a year because most people here dont share his love of the EU.


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bilbo.s
post 10th Oct 2017, 06:08am
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You forgot to mention my whinging (sic) about the independence issue. None of what you say changes the fact that you are a great steaming heap of hypocrisy. I also note your continued use of gutter language.


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Dykejumper
post 10th Oct 2017, 10:06am
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In Scotland the people with most interest in Catalonia are of course the Nats who gave a standing ovation to a Catalonian representative and followed it with flag waving support in George Sq.
I dont think they will declare UDI but if they do I hope they dont expect La Sturgeon to recognise
them.
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john.mcn
post 10th Oct 2017, 08:29pm
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They didn't
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41574172

I welcome Sturgeon butting in on the events in Spain, she is pissing off an EU member who might very well get their revenge on Scotland in any future EU expansion thumbup.gif


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bilbo.s
post 10th Oct 2017, 09:16pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 10th Oct 2017, 10:29pm) *
They didn't
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41574172

I welcome Sturgeon butting in on the events in Spain, she is pissing off an EU member who might very well get their revenge on Scotland in any future EU expansion thumbup.gif



How's that going to work for you, given that your 2 greatest wishes - Brexit and no Scottish independence - happen?

Surely you are not willing the vengeance of others on your native land?


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JAGZ1876
post 10th Oct 2017, 11:40pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 10th Oct 2017, 09:29pm) *
I welcome Sturgeon butting in on the events in Spain, she is pissing off an EU member who might very well get their revenge on Scotland in any future EU expansion thumbup.gif



Are you sure you have Scotland's best interests at heart John? unsure.gif

Cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 10th Oct 2017, 11:06am) *
In Scotland the people with most interest in Catalonia are of course the Nats


Which Nats DJ, the Scottish or the British ones?
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