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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow News Blog _ Nurses Face Sack Over Parking Fines

Posted by: GG 25th Mar 2012, 01:28pm

Glasgow nurses could now face the sack for parking without permits at the hospitals where they work. The dismissal threat comes after bosses at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said that they would take tough measures against nurses who do not pay £40 parking fines issued for their vehicles on hospital premises where they are working.

The news was delivered in an uncompromising staff memo, in which the health board – Scotland's ­biggest – said that they intend to escalate action against nurses who refuse to pay hospital parking fines.

The NHSGGC memo said:

QUOTE
"We will no longer be imposing fines on staff breaching the ­policy. Action will be taken by line managers and may include use of the disciplinary policy and ­procedure."

The Glasgow hospitals affected include Gartnavel Royal and General, the Southern General, the Royal ­Hospital for Sick Children, Stobhill, ­Victoria Infirmary and Western Infirmary.

Most nursing staff do not receive parking permits and are forced to leave patients every four hours and pay exhorbitant parking fees into coin-operated meters, including those facilities owned by private companies.

Even those staff lucky enough to get a permit for parking still face huge costs at some hospitals. Last November, nurses at the Royal Infirmary http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15622723 over a 113% increase in fees. The cost of a "14-exit" monthly permit for Royal Infirmary car park had risen from £42 to £89.50.

Speaking about the sacking threat, a nurses' leader said:
QUOTE
"It looks as though nurses will be sacked if they continue to defy this unfair system."


GG.

Posted by: Jupiter 25th Mar 2012, 01:59pm

Lets face it we hear of issues every day,we get uptight and put our thoughts down here but I have to say having read this makes me want to throw up.This has been festering for a while and I think it is time the Government stepped in and got it resolved.Why should nursing professionals have the worry about expired parking tickets when they are dealing with life/death situations.
Is it beyond the government and the NHS to sort this?
This threat of disciplinary action is just so ludicrous.It is a civil matter between the NHS and the non payer of the fine and certainly not a work related matter.
I want to hear from Ms Sturgeon tomorrow.

Posted by: stratson 25th Mar 2012, 02:17pm

Yes jupiter, am with you on this matter. Time Scottish Health Minister ie. NICOLA STURGEON GOT HER FINGER OUT.!!!

All the promises made for Independant Scotland, let's get some action now.
Perhaps then you can prove to our nation it really can work.

Have never understood how this paying for hospital parking(particularly for staff on duty) ever happened, angry.gif

Posted by: margie 25th Mar 2012, 02:59pm

In Full agreement with you Stratson. This is absolutely absurd. These nurses are under enough pressure without worrying about parking their cars.

Posted by: Heather 25th Mar 2012, 03:30pm

As I have a few Nurse's in the family, I am angry that they are expected to pay for parking in the Hospitals they work in.
They have an early start when on an early shift, and a late finish when on a back shift.

Who ever it was decided to make Nurse's pay for this parking should be ashamed of themselves.

I am well aware that other people have to pay for parking when going to work, but Nurse's and Doctors provided a service we could not survive without.

Posted by: andyguinness 25th Mar 2012, 03:33pm

This is just another type of going private, it is now common to place physio on contracts, when it ends, the waiting list is extended, or days of access are limited as i found out.

Posted by: Jupiter 25th Mar 2012, 03:40pm

Ms Stugeon enquiry as Health Minister at scottish.ministers@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

Posted by: Harrymc 25th Mar 2012, 03:44pm

Is this how a modern society shows it's appreciation for the caring profession?We are constantly told how much the nurses are valued,particularly when a politician,of whatever persuasion,senses an opportunity to score some brownie points.They are among the lowest paid employees in the NHS and are being milked for more of their hard earned cash for the priviledge of parking at their place of work.What a disgrace!Paper shufflers and Heads of useless quangos cost the NHS a fortune and we can't afford to provide adequate parking for the most important people who care for us?
It's time Sturgeon and her like started to take some meaningful action!!!

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 25th Mar 2012, 04:25pm

Even on sheer logistics -- how much will it cost to train a replacement nurse? It would be a whole lot cheaper to sack the ass who dreamt up this proposal.


Posted by: JAGZ1876 25th Mar 2012, 04:34pm

I thought hospital parking was free, i attend Crosshouse hospital in Kilmarnock at least once a week and have never paid to park, the same when i visit the R.A.H In Paisley, or is it up to individual hospitals whether they charge or not?

Posted by: chas1937 25th Mar 2012, 04:45pm

If all the major Supermarkets and places like Makro and Costco can provide free parking then it should be the same with hospitals.Every nurse and other employee should get a pass for free parking especially as more and more Hospitals are using Private companies now too build new spaces which they do for profit

Posted by: Mrs L 25th Mar 2012, 05:31pm

QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 25th Mar 2012, 08:30am) *
Even on sheer logistics -- how much will it cost to train a replacement nurse? It would be a whole lot cheaper to sack the ass who dreamt up this proposal.


Well said Alex!

Posted by: Martas 25th Mar 2012, 06:31pm

QUOTE (Heather @ 25th Mar 2012, 03:35pm) *
As I have a few Nurse's in the family, I am angry that they are expected to pay for parking in the Hospitals they work in.
They have an early start when on an early shift, and a late finish when on a back shift.

Who ever it was decided to make Nurse's pay for this parking should be ashamed of themselves.

I am well aware that other people have to pay for parking when going to work, but Nurse's and Doctors provided a service we could not survive without.

I agree with you, Heather, as I had to have a blood transfusion overnight and the Nurse who was attending to me was very attemtive and friendly to me, even though she was tired.
People would suffer without Nurses to look after them.
That would include those who were deciding to make Nurses pay for parking.

Posted by: john.mcn 25th Mar 2012, 07:14pm

Parking in hospitals is free except for workers/patients at the Royal infirmary. It was Labour who introduced the parking charges(not fines) and the SNP who stopped them, unfortunately the car park facilities at the Royal are privately funded so unless they buy them out at the cost of millions charges are there to stay. My wife is a nurse and told me of this memo last week, apparently there are few nurses who pay the charges if they dont move their car every 4 hours. I doubt very much that any nurse will face discinplinary action because quite simply the union will not stand for it, irrespective of the fact parking has nothing to do with their role as nurses.

Posted by: wee davy 25th Mar 2012, 08:02pm

This is all highly emotive stuff - however, I do know many staff (doctors or nurses) who park innapropriately, are subject to fines at most hospitals in England & Wales. And so they should be.

For example, there are red line areas at my local hospital, where ALL are liable to fines for ignoring them. The lines are there for good reason very good reason SO THAT EMERGENCY VEHICLES HAVE UNHINDERED access!

Nurses are only human, and are just as capable of being inconsiderate as the next person. It really gets up my nose when they are elevated to god like status.

Having said all that - in the unlikely event anybody is ever brought before a tribunal for parking misdemeanors - they'll pretty swiftly be supported.

My statement bears NO relationship to the admiration and esteem I have personally for ALL members of the medical fraternity, no exceptions.

Posted by: mlconnelly 25th Mar 2012, 08:11pm

I agree with what everyone here is saying, its wrong to be charging nurses parking fees never mind threatening their jobs.
Stratson, I don't know about any other hospital but 1 of the reasons they introduced parking fees at Gartnavel was because commuters were leaving their cars there and then using public transport into the city centre to avoid paying for parking, forcing staff and patients to park in the surrounding streets, which in turn caused problems for the people who live there. Although the fees have now been scrapped at Gartnavel, the parking is still a major problem. They seem to forget that the more they extend the hospital, they will have more patients, more staff and more visitors all trying to find somewhere to park in an ever decreasing carpark. There is a carpark for staff and doctors but most of the spaces need permits and most of them are allocated to doctors, especially doctors who work between 2 hospitals, as far as I'm aware.
Is it only nursing staff who are being threatened or is it all hospital staff including doctors?
Mary

Posted by: Albanach 25th Mar 2012, 09:16pm

Hospitals are unlike most public buildings in that they exist for people who are frequently at their most vulnerable, the patients and friends and families who visit them. They are staffed by people who devote their lives to tending for the vulnerable. None of these people should be held to ransom by accountants who see them as a source of profit. I don't doubt that hospital car parks cost millions of pounds, but that is a worthwhile expense. It removes one level of worry from people who already have enough to worry about, it reduces the problems that their carers face, be they consultants, nurses, porters. It is an expense that should be seen as part of holistic treatment given by the hospital of which patients and staff are each components. Insofar as abuses are concerned, it should not be beyond the wit of administrators to devise appropriate systems to eliminate or, at least reduce them to manageable level.

Posted by: Anon 25th Mar 2012, 09:21pm

Nurses who work shifts can get to and from work using public transport, so quite why they must take their cars to work in a situation where they can't afford the parking costs is beyond me. Most people aren't lucky enough to get a parking space at work. What's the issue really? Their shifts are no worse than your average call-centre staff's' and they get paid on average... double the money. They might have hard jobs, but they are a lot better off than many private sector workers I know. Another thing, My mother has macular degeneration which means her eye sight is failing her. When her clinic was at Gartnavel, it was ridiculous that I had to park in Kelvindale and walk her, rain hail or snow to the hospital because the carpark was constantly jammed with people who work there it seems! That's the scandal.

Posted by: Jazzsaxman 25th Mar 2012, 11:17pm

It worries me to think of the little government termites who sit in their offices making up rules and eating away at the liberties and freedom of this once great country. It is these termites and not the government who rule the country. They are brainwashed into believing they are doing it for the good of everyone. Of course there are the ones who use their positions to make life difficult for others and get sad and perverse kick out of it and unfortunately these type are on the increase. Go out for a walk and see how many people smile or say hello or even say thank you if you hold the door for them. This is all about money and nothing else. I have never heard of anything so pathetic. Sacking nurses because they have to park in non allotted places, which lowlife thought of that one. This is supposed to be a democratic country. Those countries who tried to find a solution for the people problem ended up with concentration and hard labour camps. Nothing will change as long as we have the termites....

Posted by: droschke7 25th Mar 2012, 11:31pm

Disgusting, how can this be right?

Posted by: Jupiter 26th Mar 2012, 05:15am

Anon, In case you werent aware First Bus are in the process of pulling services in many areas including parts of East Dunbartonshire and I know of two people at least who are having great difficulty a) getting into town for a 7am start and b) getting home at night after a late shift.

Posted by: Brigitte 26th Mar 2012, 06:12am

Never read so much rubbish. Who will look after the sick if nurses are sacked.
By the way, nurses are more than welcome here in Melbourne, Australia. There is a big shortage of nurses because of recent big migration and pay is good as well. cool.gif

Posted by: Jupiter 26th Mar 2012, 06:22am

Morning Brigitte and welcome to the boards.What is the rubbish you are referring to?
Got to ask,were you named after a famous Glasgow street rolleyes.gif ?Joop.

Posted by: GG 26th Mar 2012, 07:38am

Another aspect to this to consider is the fact that nurses and doctors who are handling money to pay into parking meters during their shifts will be coming into contact with far more germs than if they did not need to handle money for parking meters. That's a fact. Therefore, by having this policy, health boards are putting patient care at risk by promoting the opportunity for the spread of infections throughout hospitals. This in itself makes the policy absurd, not to metion dangerous.

Regarding public transport, often this will not be a viable option for many nurses who have early and out-of-hours shift patterns. And as Jupiter says, the bus service provided by First Glasgow over recent years has been one of rapidly diminishing provision, in terms of both routes and frequency.

GG.

Posted by: bilbo.s 26th Mar 2012, 07:59am

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 26th Mar 2012, 07:27am) *
Got to ask,were you named after a famous Glasgow street rolleyes.gif ?Joop.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?????????

Posted by: Uptheartskool 26th Mar 2012, 08:54am

I work in the Princess Royal Maternity Hospital and on the occasions where I take my car to work it is a complete hassle having to leave a busy post natal ward every 4 hours to pop £2 in the meter what's the point in this. Why can't you pay for a full day. Having said that the prices are too expensive and it's not always possible to leave an already understaffed ward to go for sometimes a 5-10 min walk to your car to top up the meter. It's not possible to get a space right outside the building unless you arrive 1 hour before your shift starts. For these reasons I tend not to bring my car but luckily I am able to do so. This is not the case for everyone and I think these parking charges should be scrapped or lowered to a discounted FULL DAY rate for staff.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 26th Mar 2012, 08:59am

QUOTE (Anon @ 25th Mar 2012, 09:26pm) *
Nurses who work shifts can get to and from work using public transport ... it was ridiculous that I had to park in Kelvindale and walk ... to the hospital because the carpark was constantly jammed with people who work there.

Couldn't you get the bus? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: tombro 26th Mar 2012, 09:45am

I've looked at the original story, I've read the comments, I've looked at the date and I'm still stunned !

I'm sure April 1st isn't until Sunday !

Tombro rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Exenon 26th Mar 2012, 09:59am

A statement by "anon' about nurses getting the bus to work was quite clearly written by one having no possible conception of the shifts required by nurses to carry out their duties. Does "anon" see nurses and other medical professionals working 9 to 5 ? I think not. Does "anon" require nurses to walk home after midnight or wait for public transport that would not be forthcoming after midnight anywhere? A reality check is very much in evidence pertaining to this individuals cavalier attitude.

If these nurses are sacked Canada and Australia will welcome them with open arms and much better prospects.

Posted by: wee davy 26th Mar 2012, 10:34am

There's as much likelihood as a nurse getting the sack for a parking 'offence', as you or I being selected for the Mars mission, tombro!

The truth is, there never will be sufficient parking, for everybody - the real problem is infrastructure not being adequately provided. For example, what would be wrong with a a little shuttle bus scheme (similar to airports) where external/satellite parking could be provided for a small fee, to non staff, whilst nurses and doctors are allocated priority at each hospital???

I'm no Einstein, but I'm sure like someone else said, it is well within admin capabilities, to sort this out, once and for all.

Posted by: jbeaver 26th Mar 2012, 12:12pm

What a load of crap. Nurses have difficult enough jobs without having to worry about where to park their cars. They should have free parking at their place of work. If it was not for the hard work of the nurses at the Victoria in Glasgow, my mum might not have survived the major surgery that she went through. They did a first class job.

Posted by: john.mcn 26th Mar 2012, 12:51pm

Anon, my wife has to be at her station before 7 in morning for a 12 hour shift, for her to be able to do that she would need to get at least 2 buses or a bus, train then another bus, thats if of course buses were running at the time she would now have to leave. At the moment she gets in after 8 has dinner then falls asleep only to do the same several hours later. Do you really think it's wise to lengthen peoples day if they are already shattered and are looking after sick people?

Posted by: Jim D 26th Mar 2012, 03:21pm

Unfortunately, nurses are not the 0nly ones subject to these charges. My wife was sent to The Royal to have a mole thing removed. She was told to bring a suitable person with her. I drove her there and parked in the carpark and paid the ticket. It was not cheap.

Some might not like this but nurses should not get everything free. There are many ocupations and patients who attend the hospital and all require to pay for their parking, if they want to take the car to their works doorstep. They could use public transport, park and ride etc.

THe NHS Glasgow allowed a private company to build a large multi-storey carpark at the hospital, rather than build the carpark themselves. It was their way of getting out of allowing free carparking and at the same time creating more parking space.. If the company have a problem with none payment then it is not the responsibility of the hospital. They should not be involved and have no right to know if you have received a ticket for non-payment. Neither should they supply any information as to the possible identity of the offending vehicle. Its called Data Protection!

Posted by: mlconnelly 26th Mar 2012, 04:57pm

The 3 nearest hospitals to me are the Western Infirmary, Gartnavel and the Royal Infirmary and I can assure you JimD, I wouldn't like to be walking out of any of these hospitals after a late shift and then have to rely on public transport to get home. I get your point about the private carpark and your right it was a cop-out by GCC but it still doesn't make it right to charge anyone for parking at a hospital. Mary

Posted by: Heather 26th Mar 2012, 05:19pm

Plus the fact that Nurse's go to work in the Hospital, not just for an occasional visit or an appointment

I certainly would not like to be standing at a bus stop on my own at 10-30pm /11-00pm waiting for a bus to make it's appearance, especially at the weekend with all the crime we read about by drunks, drug addicts and those who carry knives.


Posted by: Rabbie 26th Mar 2012, 06:51pm

Loast fur words, well not quite. You ken me rolleyes.gif

See these days, this kind of twaddle comes as no great surprise. Perhaps the time has arrived for the public to say enough to all the PC and other heaps of manure that are getting dumped on us in willy nilly fashion by a shower of glaikit penpushing eejits. Eegits who are dire need of a reality check in the form of a goodly hoofing up the archiebald with a size 14 pitboot. Joop, you got yer size 12 plod boots handy?

Indeed, yet another sickening indicament that serves to show that bampots are trying to take over the world.

Just what are these shiny erses inepts going to do, sack all the nursing / medical staff? Aye right, thats got to be the cheap option. Clearly, a great deal of thought hasn't gone into this.

What ever happened to common sence, it appears to have deserted the UK.

Posted by: Isobel 26th Mar 2012, 09:17pm

As the mother of an RN. I feel very strongly that parking charges are an outrage. My daughter had to pay even as a student nurse. I believe this is because the parking is nothing to do with the hospital, its all private companies.Our little hospital was always free,and then they started charging a dollar. How we all complained about that . Now its a private company and its a lot more expensive.The rotten bit about ours is there is a senior home in hospital grounds, so if you are visiting there a couple of times a week it sure mounts up.My friends mother is there and her friends from her building cant afford to go and visit with her .
In saying all that I feel no one should expect to get away with illegal,
parking nurses and doctors included.Give them their own free spot.

Posted by: mlconnelly 26th Mar 2012, 10:48pm

A few months ago I had to go to the Southern General for a scan. While there I had a conversation with one of the nursing staff about the parking. She asked me where I had parked and I told her I was in the new multistorey carpark which seemed to me to be only about a 1/4 full. When I said how surprised I was at how empty the carpark was, she told me that nursing staff are not allowed to use it and that its always at least half empty. There is a carpark as you go into the hospital from Govan Rd and also parking outside some of the individual buildings, so I asked her where she could park and she told me they have to park on the main road or surrounding streets. Another hospital I would not like to leave after a late shift and to be dependent on public transport. Mary

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 26th Mar 2012, 11:05pm

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 26th Mar 2012, 09:04am) *
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?????????

I assumed it was the Bridgegate ("brig'ate").


Posted by: Alex MacPhee 26th Mar 2012, 11:14pm

I can see the point of wanting to dissuade commuters who use hospital car parks as a commuting convenience. However, this is a technological age, and it is trivially easy to find technological solutions to this problem.

When my wife was able to travel in our car, the local authority had a scheme whereby our car registration number was 'known' to the system, and whenever we approached a council car park, a number recognition camera would scan every number and, recognising ours, would open the car park barrier allowing us to enter (and leave) at no charge. Just in case there was a camera malfunction, we also had a 'proximity card' which we could wave at the car park entrance, which would also open the barriers.

There is certainly no technical or logistic reason why medical staff cannot be separated from visitors or commuters.

Posted by: Exenon 27th Mar 2012, 02:44am

QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 26th Mar 2012, 11:19pm) *
I can see the point of wanting to dissuade commuters who use hospital car parks as a commuting convenience. However, this is a technological age, and it is trivially easy to find technological solutions to this problem.

When my wife was able to travel in our car, the local authority had a scheme whereby our car registration number was 'known' to the system, and whenever we approached a council car park, a number recognition camera would scan every number and, recognising ours, would open the car park barrier allowing us to enter (and leave) at no charge. Just in case there was a camera malfunction, we also had a 'proximity card' which we could wave at the car park entrance, which would also open the barriers.

There is certainly no technical or logistic reason why medical staff cannot be separated from visitors or commuters.

Dont know if you have ever been to Hong Kong and used an "Octopus card"? It is used mainly for transport fares and small purchases on the run. There is no need to remove it from your wallet to scan it. Just touch your wallet to the scanner and it reads through it, charges the exact purchase amount and debits your prepaid credit. Now why is this technology, available for as far as I know for about 10 years now, not available for a simple car park ticket. Scotland is fast drifting down the third world road.

Posted by: GG 27th Mar 2012, 07:56am

QUOTE (stratson @ 25th Mar 2012, 02:22pm) *
Yes jupiter, am with you on this matter. Time Scottish Health Minister ie. NICOLA STURGEON GOT HER FINGER OUT.!!!

All the promises made for Independant Scotland, let's get some action now.
Perhaps then you can prove to our nation it really can work.

Have never understood how this paying for hospital parking(particularly for staff on duty) ever happened, angry.gif

Jupiter, Stratson, agreed! So far, there has been no reaction from Nicola Sturgeon on the main issue here: the harassment of nurses by health bosses who appear to be acting as proxy debt collectors for a private car parking management firm at seven city hospitals.

There is also the related issue of exhorbitant car parking costs charged by another private company at the Glasgow Royal Infirmary. Staff, patients and visitors are daily being charged huge fees to leave their cars in the GRI's PFI-built hospital car park. As Glasgow has the worst health record in the country, this amounts to a dispoportionate additional charge to Glaswegians, especially poor Glaswegians who are more likely to suffer poor health.

GG.

Posted by: tombro 27th Mar 2012, 09:53am

Simple !

Employers should provide free parking for all employees, the NHS and Private Hospitals should provide free parking for all customers.

The sticking point is that there is always that group of skinflints who, if given the opportunity of free parking anywhere, will take it.

Hospitals can issue staff with passes, but they still would have no control over others who park in their grounds. Maybe a solution could be that, after a consultation in the hospital, patients could be provided with a gate pass that allows them a free exit from the parking area.

Most hospital car parks do have either a machine or a posted operator who could oversee such a problem.

Tombro

Posted by: zascot 27th Mar 2012, 10:24am

QUOTE (Exenon @ 27th Mar 2012, 03:49am) *
There is no need to remove it from your wallet to scan it. Just touch your wallet to the scanner and it reads through it,

We have the same system in a lot of the plants here, it also clocks the guys on and off and on strict companies selects random numbers for breathalysing.

Posted by: John B 27th Mar 2012, 02:06pm

An Absolute Disgrace that these Angels should be treated like this (and in a wonderful city like Glasgow) makes it even more disgusting.

It's time the public done something to back up the Nurses, as we would be lost without their tender care !

Posted by: Heather 27th Mar 2012, 04:35pm

The Buses here in Scotland have a scanner for the free Bus Pass that OAPs get. No need to remove the Pass from the wallet as it scans the Pass.

Posted by: Scotsman 27th Mar 2012, 04:37pm

It always seems to be the people at the bottom of the pile who are the ones who get hit with all the high costs and fines. I wonder if Mrs Sturgeon relies on the hospitals in Glasgow or does she have a nice wee package that allows her not to worry about NHS hospitals because she knows she can go private if she has to?? Would she be happy for one of her family members to be treated by a nurse who is worrying about whether she needs to go out and feed the parking meter??

There really must be a point I think when people just get so tired of being treated like idiots by politicians at every single opportunity. Does Mrs Sturgeon get free parking at her place of work.... I wonder??

Posted by: zascot 28th Mar 2012, 06:14am

QUOTE (Scotsman @ 27th Mar 2012, 05:42pm) *
There really must be a point I think when people just get so tired of being treated like idiots by politicians at every single opportunity. Does Mrs Sturgeon get free parking at her place of work.... I wonder??

Very good question, she probably just sends her chauffer to find a wee spot in a side street and wait for her. biggrin.gif

Posted by: john.mcn 28th Mar 2012, 10:48am

My wife says they are discussing this at work and the talk is the Union are in agreement with this policy ohmy.gif, time to start a new Union methinks.

Anyway I remember when my wife had to pay to park at the southern and much like happened when Barrhead main street shopping started parking charges, all the surrounding streets were chock full of council workers cars, not nice if you actually stayed in those streets and certainly made them unsafe for kids. Now the charges are removed the streets are again empty but you cant get bloody parked if you need to nip down to farmfoods biggrin.gif

Posted by: *ozzy ian 123* 28th Mar 2012, 12:23pm

Hi, we here in Australia are in the same situation our nurses have to pay outrageous fees & fines. What I would like to know is what do the bosses do for parking, do they have special passes if so why would they worry. Free parking haha how do they sleep at night, not very good I hope!

Posted by: GG 29th Mar 2012, 07:51am

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 28th Mar 2012, 10:53am) *
My wife says they are discussing this at work and the talk is the Union are in agreement with this policy ohmy.gif, time to start a new Union methinks.

John, you're not wrong. The union response to workers:
QUOTE
The parking policy was discussed and comments were fed back from most TUs at healthboard level, while documents may have taken into account comments from staffside, partnership does not mean that staffside always agree with all aspects within and it often ends up a damage limitation process.

The unfortunate reality is that if staff break any GG&C policies they can face a disciplinary investigation and possible action. Since the implementation of the previous car parking policy, technically staff could have been disciplined if their managers became aware that they were ignoring fines.

My recollection is that panels are organised on each site to consider car parking permit applications on the basis of use i.e. as a requirement of the job. In reality there are a lot of staff who don't require cars as part of their job but may choose to use their own transport to get to work e.g. community nurses may require a car to visit patients whereas many of the 500 lab staff at XXXX don't require their cars to do their jobs as they will be based at the XXX and do not have regular duties on other sites.

Although not good, please keep in mind that some sites are even worse in terms of parking spaces and charges e.g. GRI, also worth noting that GG&C has to conform to green policies and pressure from the councils and Government.

In short we are stuck with the policy for the time being and yes, if if staff breack any GG&C policies they can face disciplinary action.

GG.

Posted by: john.mcn 29th Mar 2012, 09:39am

I would expect the union to actually get the wording correct. Only council parking attendants, police officers and parking wardens have the authority to issue 'fines', these employees from private parking firms can only issue parking charge invoices for the overstay, not really enforceable in court.

Also i do not understand GG&C policy, they are not supposed to park in the hospital grounds but face disciplinary action if they dont pay a parking charge. Surely the parking charge is immaterial, if the policy is do not park then any action should follow immediately. Several of my wifes co nurses got tickets the other day, including my wife, considering it was her off day and they phoned her to cover someone sick it's a bit of a cheek biggrin.gif

Posted by: Scotsman 29th Mar 2012, 10:59am

Well said John M!!

Whats the point of a union who ignore the fears and threats to the workers and then side with the bosses?? I wonder where the union man parks his car.... probably next to the bosses!!

Posted by: Jupiter 29th Mar 2012, 12:10pm

Another wee point on these so called,"tickets"
If a ticket is issued to a vehicle registration number for an alleged overstay there is no way in which the registered keeper is compelled to state who was in charge of the vehicle at the relevant time.
In contrast the Road Traffic Act compels the registered keeper to identify who was driving or in charge of a vehicle at the time of the alleged offence and there are penalties if they fail to do so.
My advice to any one getting one of these tickets.Bin it.

Posted by: GG 29th Mar 2012, 09:50pm

You raise a very important point, Jupiter. And the extension of the point is: what if a registered keeper is dismissed from their employment although they were not driving the car at the time of the parking 'offence'. Surely the dismissed employee, who is not obliged to disclose the name of the driver, will be well within their rights to take legal action against the health board for unfair dismissal. This will result in financial losses to the health board (from NHS budgets), and also risk the possibility of industrial action. Either way, surely an issue which should merit the attention of Scotland's health secretary?

GG.

Posted by: CAMPSIE 30th Mar 2012, 04:20pm

Nurses should have FREE parking END OF!! As should Doctor's our main hospital we ar lucky to still have our cottage hospital for minor cases, does not give parking spaces to all doctors. Geeze this is just unacceptable, the people should be concentrating on their patients and not worrying about parking tickets, time for all Health Authorities to get real, but then the big cats have got their parking spaces no doubt.

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 31st Mar 2012, 12:20am

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 29th Mar 2012, 01:15pm) *
vehicle at the relevant time.
In contrast the Road Traffic Act compels the registered keeper to identify who was driving or in charge of a vehicle at the time of the alleged offence and there are penalties if they fail to do so.
My advice to any one getting one of these tickets.Bin it.

True enough, though as far as I'm aware, the RTA only requires the owner to make reasonable attempts to identify the driver in charge, since there's a legal principle that one cannot be penalised for not doing what one is unable to do. On the other hand, private car park owners may make 'legalistic looking' requests, which have no legal force. Although it's slightly tangential, my brother, who has no TV, routinely gets letters from the TVLA phrased in a manner that suggests prosecution is imminent, though as a former police officer he knows they are tosh!

Posted by: tamhickey 31st Mar 2012, 04:37am

This is merely the first step into the privatisation of our health service. It's the politicians' way of saying "get used to it, if we can treat frontline staff this way, you're next." Apparently, hospital consultants don't have to pay the parking fees, but student nurses do? I don't know many students who could afford over £80 a week just to park a car.
I live in Springburn and there are many nurses who choose the park and ride idea, leaving their cars filling up the streets whilst they work at either the Royal or at Stobhill. This being the case, surely the union should be talking in terms of health and safety for the staff? Having worked a long shift, why is it allowed that these health workers should have to somehow find a bus or taxi to get them to their cars making their working day and travel excessive? This must interfere with the E.U. directive that everybody has a right to family life.
Incredibly, it was the Labour Party who set this whole scam up for the benefit of private companies to make as much money as they could from it. Bevin wil be spinning in his grave. The health service was meant to be "free at the point of use" that obviously doesn't apply to its workers.
One last point, how is it possible to receive the best possible healthcare while your nurses are worrying about having to leave you in possible distress whilst having to put another £2 in the meter? As has been pointed out, the technology has existed for a number of years where this is provenly nonsensical. If the facility exists whereby consultants don't need to pay fees, surely the same rights and priveleges ought to be extended to all who work in the N.H.S.
Can you imagine the furore if this was extended to schools and colleges? kid comes home having just failed an exam. Asked why, he/she will reply " Didn't know the answer as our teacher had to top up his parking just before he told us the answer in class and had to move on to another subject"
This is clearly not good for staff or patients. If I was a nurse, I'd chuck it and move abroad where they are respected as the professionals they are.

Posted by: zascot 2nd Apr 2012, 06:50am

Ok Sir lets work this out. your a consultant and earn 6K a month, ok you can park at work fir nuthin. Ok your a nurse and earn 1K a month, oh that entitles you tae pay fer parkin. sounds arse about face tae me.

Posted by: Scotsman 5th Apr 2012, 10:21am

There were photos in the Evening Times the other night about car crashes outside a hospital which were caused by the people who worked there having to park in the streets outside. Dont remember which hospital it was but they said that things were going to change to make sure that it would not happen again.

Posted by: wee davy 5th Apr 2012, 11:23am

QUOTE (zascot @ 2nd Apr 2012, 06:55am) *
Ok Sir lets work this out. your a consultant and earn 6K a month, ok you can park at work fir nuthin. Ok your a nurse and earn 1K a month, oh that entitles you tae pay fer parkin. sounds arse about face tae me.

I'd like to meet the consultant who's on THAT kind of pittance! lol GP's don't get out of bed for any less than £100k a year these days.
(By the same token after probation, MOST nurses are on a LOT more than 1/2 the average wage)

The truth is, its usually PATIENTS who you find are on that sort of money!!!

As I've said before - there is more chance of me being the first man on Mars, than a nurse being sacked for a parking offence.

Posted by: GG 26th Apr 2012, 07:54am

And there are other staff on much more than nurses:

QUOTE
Spin Doctors Cost NHS £2.6M

The NHS in Scotland paid their spin doctors pounds 2.6million last year, new figures show.

Critics yesterday said the money could be better spent on caring for patients.

[...] NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, Scotland's biggest health board, spent just over pounds £300,000 on their 7.5 PR positions.

The basic salary of the most senior spin doctor for the board was between pounds £64,104 and pounds £87,366 - but this didn't include pension contributions, social security and other employer costs.

The average qualified nurse is paid about pounds £33,000. ...

Wonder if they pay for their own parking?

GG.

Posted by: Guest 25th Jun 2012, 03:26pm

The Charges concerned (not fines) are not legally enforceable in Scotland. The parking companies use threats and letters unsigned by any registered lawyer to scare people into paying.

If the NHS forces people to pay these fines under threat of internal action then they are interfering with a dispute that should be dealt with in a civil court. I wouldn't like to think that employment tribunals would sanction such a thing.

These charges come under contract law and a company can only claim liquidated losses from an individual. Liquidated losses here = 0.

I can see some conspiracy theories arising form this situation.

Posted by: GG 3rd Jul 2012, 05:55pm

From the Evening Times yesterday:

QUOTE
Health chiefs in Glasgow have been urged to open up a near empty new car park to nursing staff who face disciplinary action for parking elsewhere.

Staff without parking permits are hit with £40 fines by private firm CP Plus if they go over a four-hour parking limit at the Southern General which is undergoing major reconstruction work.

A new car park, the first of four being created for the new £842million hospital, has opened but most of its spaces are for permit holders only and most staff do not qualify.

Does anyone think that high-paid bosses at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde will have a problem finding a free parking space?

See also, from yesterday, a story about NHS quango bosses:

NHS staff drive fleet of taxpayer-funded luxury cars
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9370075/NHS-staff-drive-fleet-of-taxpayer-funded-luxury-cars.html

GG.

Posted by: GG 3rd Jul 2012, 06:02pm

Reported yesterday, also: Nurse Lorraine Bell, 53, of Clydebank, is facing NHS disciplinary action over a £40 ticket from the city s Western Infirmary.

Lorraine said:

QUOTE
"I m sure the public would rather I d give my full attention to making sure patients stay alive in theatre than worrying about where I ve parked my car."

I think it's fair to say that it's not just about getting the sack, but about a management attitude to people who work to make the lives of others better. I don't think nurses should be subjected to the psychological threat of dismissal, regardless of whether that threat is ever actually carried out to its conclusion by a costly disciplinary process.

GG.

Posted by: wee davy 3rd Jul 2012, 06:12pm

Does it not depend on exactly what the 'offence' was? Do we know, Martin?

I mean, if poor parking may have contributed to an emergency vehicle not being able to deliver its 'cargo',... would this not be subject to disciplinary procedure? At least a slapped wrist, surely.

(PS I know about the difficulties of parking at the Western)

The devil is in the detail - and Lorraine clearly thinks she can park wherever she jolly well pleases.

Posted by: GG 3rd Jul 2012, 06:20pm

Hi Davy,

Good question! My understanding is that the fine from a private, profit-making company was imposed because the nurse was parked in a parking bay which is reserved for 'paying customers' only. There is no mention of any blocking of access or dangerous parking. Please see the link to the Daily Record story from last month for more information:

Nurse takes defiant stand against hospital parking charges
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/06/24/nurse-takes-defiant-stand-against-hospital-parking-charges-by-refusing-to-pay-fine-86908-23899870/

GG.

Posted by: wee davy 3rd Jul 2012, 06:48pm

QUOTE
Greater Glasgow & Clyde NHS issued 3409 parking permits for 2888 staff spaces – 873 went to nurses, 933 to doctors, 499 to physios and 1040 to non-medics

These figures suggest to me there is an element of choice, here.

From your sources, this leads me to believe she doesn't pay for a parking permit, when required for her to do her job. I may be wrong, but I suspect she is making her 'little stand' against parking charges.

A lot of hospitals have the same policy throughout the NHS. Sadly there are simply not enough spaces - and never have been.
We have a similar problem at James Cook University Hospital.
(Although I haven't heard of anyone being disciplined, I'm sure this WILL have happened from time to time).

Posted by: GG 3rd Jul 2012, 08:01pm

Thanks, Davy, interesting figures, however...

Those statistics appear to be for the whole of Greater Glasgow & Clyde NHS*. According to the NHS GGCV website, some 44,000 staff are employed across the area which they serve. That means that about only 1-in-15 staff members are allocated a permit – the rest are faced with paying a private company to park on the premises or going off-site (public transport is a limited option due to the nature of working hours).

Unfortunately, in most cases, the problem is not the limited availability of parking space. If we take the Glasgow Royal Infirmary as an example, where parking is provided by the private company APCOA Services Group, spaces in the hospital car park are advertised openly to visitors to the city. On the group's website, it claims that the GRI hospital car park is convenient for the following local points of interest:

Which in itself begs the question, should revellers be using the same car park as families of sick and dying patients in the hospital?

http://www.apcoa.co.uk/carparks/glasgow-royal-infirmary

--
* I am unable to verify whether the figures in the article relate to permits issued at the Western, or are across the entire estate. Statistics on permits issued by NHSGGCV are difficult to find. Obviously, the newspaper reporter should have sought clarification on the numbers before publishing the figures provided.

GG.

Posted by: mlconnelly 3rd Jul 2012, 09:41pm

Wee Davy, I attend Gartnavel Hospital on a regular basis and have had various conversations with staff members who say they can't get permits as they are all allocated to more senior members of staff, some of whom dont have to pay because they work over 2 hospitals and have 2 free parking spaces. If thats true, where's the fairness in that? Mary

Posted by: wee davy 3rd Jul 2012, 10:18pm

hmm Food for thought there GG.
I have to admit I didn't expect you to come back with THOSE details!

YOUR figures do suggest a TOTALLY different picture, overall, however in the case of staff being allocated insufficient passes - this doesn't reflect a LACK of them - but in fact, a conscious decision NOT to PURCHASE them?

I'm not saying its right ANY staff should have to pay - not at all.
If there ARE sufficient parking spaces available - then clearly staff ought to be allocated them. Not 'offered up' for the convenience of tourists et al.

Mary - I 'attended' Blackpool Victoria quite a lot, a while back. Many nurses (whom I have the utmost respect for), used to tell me similar sob stories.
Then I found out they had a CHOICE of whether or not to pay for permits.
The TRUTH was (and I don't blame them), they wanted to keep their coin firmly in their pockets!
In answer to your question, though - no, its NOT fair - but then it mirrors life in that regard. I wish there were free passes for ALL of them - but the days seem to be long gone, where we done things like that sad.gif

Posted by: Guest 11th Jul 2012, 06:20pm

A wee bit of information:

Many permits are allocated to senior staff who work across two or more sites, to allow them to travel between places of work during the lunch hour, or if during the shift, in the shortest possible time. Arguably, this is quite reasonable, as the roles these staff members perform is often quite time-pressured, for example a list of ultrasound scans on outpatients, or even a theatre list of operations. In these circumstances, parking permits are justified.

It used to be that staff would simply ignore all correspondence from CP plus, but it would now seem that GGC are using the staff discipline route to scare staff into not parking. I personally can't see any defence union (nursing, medical or otherwise) allowing the trust to try to sack an employee over parking. Also, I think GGC are trying to avoid accusations of forcing payment of fees to CP plus by saying that they will not be issuing fines to staff members.

It remains to be seen what happens with this. I can see it getting ugly. I can't see GGC disciplining/suspending/sacking doctors or managers, so they are picking on nurses and auxiliaries as they are not as well represented by unions with legal backing. Perhaps there will be demonstrations, more media attention, or even industrial action.

Posted by: mlconnelly 11th Jul 2012, 09:10pm

Point taken but it still doesn't make it right. Why should nursing staff have to stop caring for seriously ill patients to return to a carpark to feed a meter or to move their car. I appreciate that someone working over 2 sites could be working on time sensitive cases but nursing is just as time sensitive.

How would you feel if a relative who needed help going to the bathroom suffered the indignity of soiling themselves because a nurse had to leave the ward for something as unimportant as feeding a parking meter. I know I would be furious.

Hopefully it wont come to industrial action but who could blame them if they did. Mary

Posted by: Rabbie 24th Jul 2012, 01:24am

A simple solution, to the motorised population.

On yer bikes, like the ones that have pedals.

My old mate, Rabba the Hutt is here to assist.



Posted by: wee davy 24th Jul 2012, 01:40am

You don't look so good, Rabbie.
I would book myself in to the nearest A & E if you can find one, mate! lol

Posted by: droschke7 24th Jul 2012, 09:34am

QUOTE (Rabbie @ 24th Jul 2012, 03:39am) *
A simple solution, to the motorised population.

On yer bikes, like the ones that have pedals.

My old mate, Rabba the Hutt is here to assist.



OMG where did you get that photo of the Ex Wife?

Posted by: john.mcn 24th Jul 2012, 11:52am

It isn't a case of paying for parking, you cant. It is free for up to 4 hours then you must leave the hospital grounds(not just move the car), there are always loads of empty permit only spaces, except when the papers run stories about parking at hospitals.
Workers who park in the area near the hospital are having the cars vandalised, by what i can only assume are furious residents. Others streets near the southern are to have double yellow lines painted on them. If they cant park in the hospital or even near it how are they meant to get to and fro to work in the early or late shifts.

Posted by: A Mackinnon 3rd Sep 2012, 02:02pm

The UK is awash with "Yellow Lines". What I want to know is who first suggested this method of parking control (instead of signs like most of the rest of the world) and did he/she have shares in the paint company that supplies all the paint????

Posted by: wee davy 4th Sep 2012, 11:46am


Wiki

Double yellow lines were first used in Yorkshire by George Bamber (1822-1903), a farmer of Masham, North Yorkshire. The design of the two yellow lines came from the markings used by Bamber to identify his sheep, and they were originally used as 'boundary markers' to protect his land, He also used the 'two yellow lines' to identify the access routes to his farm on the road, which on market days were sometimes clogged up with carts from surrounding villagers who were attending the regular markets.

*** The Mayor of Masham (Mr Nesbit) realised the potential and implemented this idea to restrict access to Masham market square on Market days, offenders who left any obstructions where the double yellow lines were painted were fined 4d of which George Bamber received 10%, an idea soon adopted by the surrounding villages, The shrewd George Bamber ensured that his 10% received from the Masham fines was also applicable to other villages

Can't help you with the paint - Johnson's??? lol

Posted by: A Mackinnon 4th Sep 2012, 12:00pm

Thanks Wee Davy, interesting. I think your photo says it all rolleyes.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 4th Sep 2012, 12:04pm

QUOTE (A Mackinnon @ 3rd Sep 2012, 04:17pm) *
The UK is awash with "Yellow Lines". What I want to know is who first suggested this method of parking control (instead of signs like most of the rest of the world) and did he/she have shares in the paint company that supplies all the paint????

Where I am in Spain, we have yellow painted kerbs to denote no-parking, as well as yellow box markings on the road for restricted areas.

Posted by: Thomas 4th Sep 2012, 06:03pm

QUOTE (droschke7 @ 24th Jul 2012, 11:49am) *
OMG where did you get that photo of the Ex Wife?

You're either a liar or a bigamist - that's my current wife!

Posted by: GG 7th Sep 2013, 10:35am

A letter to the Evening Times last night from a disgusted healthcare worker on how Glasgow City Council refuses point blank to show any compassion for their money-grabbing parking fines policy.

QUOTE
No kindness

I echo recent disgust with Glasgow City Council's approach to parking fines. They are committed to profiteering, and have not an ounce of compassion.

As a healthcare worker I visit people with dementia in their homes. On a recent visit which I expected to be routine I paid for 40 minutes parking. Unfortunately I was faced with an individual in distress, and was 12 minutes late returning to my car.

The parking attendant had just issued the ticket when I arrived. I thought I might receive an understanding approach and I submitted a letter explaining.

All I got was a reply saying the ticket was correctly issued. I was not disputing that, but was hoping for an act of kindness. The type I showed in staying with a distressed individual.

S M Renfrew

GG.

Posted by: Betsy2009 7th Sep 2013, 10:46am

I hope the organisaiton s/he works for paid the parking ticket.
To expect compassion from any parking people is rather hopeful.

Posted by: Jupiter 7th Sep 2013, 11:02am

GG as I constable part of my duty was issuing parking tickets and it was something I can honestly say I done as a last resort.Not so some of my colleagues,ones who were tossed out the SS for cruelty.
I often found a quiet(or sometimes blunt) word of advice to a motorist re errant parking done the trick and very rarely would I see the car parked out of order on my beat.
Sadly parking is now big,nay mega business,Police rarely get involved and its now down to private companies who are financially and target driven.Dont expect any discretion or compassion from any of the knuckle draggers employed by them either.
I sent a letter to GDC asking why I had to pay to park on Great Western Rd and not Dumbarton Road and the reply,I kid you not would have baffled even the best Phildelphia lawyer.
This lady treating the patient is a prime example of the heartlessness involved.

Posted by: Purplefan 7th Sep 2013, 11:26am

There has to be some sort of price cap. These private firms are more than likely run by gangsters.
I know one firm who are gangsters,
But if you get a parking ticket there are ways to get off it.
Here is a web page with a few tips.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1708393/How-fight-parking-ticket.html

You will find that most parking bays are painted wrong or marked wrong so it is worth appealing.

Posted by: Harrymc 7th Sep 2013, 11:55am

Whilst not disputing the need for regulation,parking tickets,along with speed cameras,have become a money machine for councils throughout the UK.
The unintended consequences of the over zealous enfocement of parking tickets has for one thing,played no small part in the decline of Britains High St shops,
A classic example of the motivation driving the war against the motorist has been the sight of wardens,some drafted in from other areas,issuing tickets on vehicles parked alongside waste land where houses have been demolished near football stadia,on matchdays.In this area (Merseyside) it has been common for a number of years in the vicinity of Anfield where there has been a huge ongoing regeneration program over several years.I daresay it happens elsewhere as well.A license to print money if ever there was one.

Posted by: DavidT 7th Sep 2013, 05:27pm

It's a huge money spinner for the council. Even the place you pay the fine is called something like 'the parking shop'. Yes it does have double yellows outside.
I once appealed a fine along the lines of confusing road markings in Bath Street. I was surprised to win my case. They haven't changed the markings or signage though.
I've got one to pay to a private company at the moment. I went 9 minutes over the 2 hour parking limit at Govan shopping centre. I knew nothing of it until I got a photo of my licence plate in the post. Bah!
My pal works in the southern general. He has to stop what he's doing to go and move his car every 4 hours.

Posted by: john.mcn 7th Sep 2013, 06:00pm



Private parking firms cant issue fines, only police and council appointed wardens can do that. What they try to hit you with is a 'charge' dressed up as a fine so people pay. They have no legal standing because they can only charge losses or costs, and as it's a free car park there is no loss of revenue.

Photos of number plates are just that, it doesn't prove who drove the car and you are under no obligation to let them know. The warning letters will eventually stop, you can just ignore them, and i got that from legal advice:D

Posted by: DavidT 7th Sep 2013, 06:27pm

John, I do hope you're right. I have had the bill in for about 4 weeks now. If they persist I'll refer them to my legal advisor..john mcn. laugh.gif cheers

Posted by: carmella 9th Sep 2013, 01:43pm

David, John is correct - these 'fines' are unenforceable, only traffic wardens and the police can issue by law fines. These private companies dress them up as 'fines' but they are charges and very expensive ones at that.

I have never been at the receiving end of these, fingers crossed.

Posted by: droschke7 9th Sep 2013, 04:11pm

QUOTE (Thomas @ 4th Sep 2012, 07:01pm) *
You're either a liar or a bigamist - that's my current wife!

LOL

Posted by: Jupiter 9th Sep 2013, 04:23pm

David I may have explained this before but Im sure you wont mind.What you have is a notice.According to the rat companies who run car parks you have entered a contract with them.That is baloney.Shamefully the DVLA sells vehicle info to these rat firms.Now they have a reg number pertaining to your car but and Im sure the V5 says that the name on the form is the keeper of the vehicle not necessesarily the owner.Only the Police have power to compel the registered keeper to reveal the name of the driver at the time of an alleged offence.You have not committed an offence and are under no such obligation.My advice sit tight do nothing dont even acknowledge them.They wont take you to court because they have no evidence against you.

Posted by: DavidT 9th Sep 2013, 06:02pm

Thanks for all the info on private company parking charges folks. I'm really glad I mentioned it on here. I got another reminder this morning. The first bill was £40. There was one after that for £120. They now say it's £170. I wonder just how rich they get from this. They'll have to come and get me.

Posted by: john.mcn 9th Sep 2013, 06:10pm



I had red letters from the 'legal' department, then debt collectors, all shared the same address funnily enough, they eventually stop when they click i'm not a numpty who doesn't have a scooby wink.gif

Ohh and i know a car park attendant who was shocked when i told him that the wee tickets he stuck on cars were not fines and were as worthless as the litter blowing about, he actually thought he had the power of the law behind him..errr no!