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> Independence Day?, How will (or would) you vote?
Alex Saville
post 13th Sep 2014, 01:37pm
Post #16

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I have waited all my life for September the 18th.
I will vote 'YES'.
'No' has never been considered.

My reasons for voting 'Yes' are these:-

1/ Never again will Scottish Servicemen/women be brought home in body-bags so that Westminster politicians can posture on world stages and pretend they are a force in the world.

2/ This is my country, and just as Glasgow is my city, I'm proud of them.

3/ I believe, with all my heart, that we will prosper as masters of our own destiny.

4/ The more these Unionist politicians and their puppet business leaders talk down Scots and their country, the more I want to be rid of them.

The 'YES' side have had a raw deal from the press all along the line. When I was at school, the History Teacher said that all through time, the victor has written history.
The press and the media have considered it their duty to tell one side of the story (NO) and ignored the other (YES), only reluctantly had to alter that since last weekend when the 'YES' campaign was in the lead. Now that 'NO' is very slightly in the lead they are back to their old one-sided tricks.
In their arrogance they consider Scots are too stupid to know which way to vote and they consider that they should instruct us on, in their opinion, the correct decision.
Vote 'YES' and damn them all!

Alex

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chas1937
post 13th Sep 2014, 01:53pm
Post #17


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My mind was always going to be a NO vote for simple reason that I think we are much better off sharing between 69 million people rather than just under 5 million here is Scotland.
Then when it comes too currency Salmond/Sturgeon can't give a straight answer and saying it will be ok is just a joke.That's like saying to me "here is a bag and there might be something expensive in it or not" so if you give me 10 I will let you see.When you do that the bag is empty so that's what YES campaign is asking.
Then when it comes too all the Crown Properties and Estates where is money going to come too fund either buying them or leasing them back.I will tell you answer too that and it's YOU and ME who will foot the bill and be losers.That's and that's just for starters.Have a read at this and make your mind up.
tl.gd/n_1s9ddc9
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chas1937
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:01pm
Post #18


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Might be good idea too read this also as very important as to which way you vote

http://www.cityam.com/1410483959/boost-no-...plan-torn-apart
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john.mcn
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:11pm
Post #19


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Might just be as important to google institute for fiscal studies political bias before taking their view as impartial.


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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jintyg
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:14pm
Post #20

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I've lived here all of my 66 years
though not in Glasgow I'm from Port Glasgow
I thought about emigrating when my family were young I didn't have the courage back then and couldny leave my wee Mum & Dad
so I stayed now I think my courage has grown through the years and we do need change so I'm voting YES !!!!
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petunia
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:15pm
Post #21


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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 13th Sep 2014, 12:41pm) *
I too am an ex-pat but I was also an ex-pat while serving overseas in the RAF so the term is a relative mute point for me: I can only ever be a Scotsman away from home who's nationalty has never changed.
I would love to see Scotland take the stage as a Nation on her own feet once again and have voted to that effect.
For me the single most important issue has nothing to do with politics or even England; all of my 15 decendents were born in England and likely consider themselves English born and bred more than British, but rather that we, Scotland, were always a separate nation with our own culture, ideas, and outlook. Our beautiful land is unique: it's history and geography impregnated in our hearts. We may share it with all but we cannot give it away because that would be a betrayal.
It was once handed over; lock, stock, barrel and croft to a more powerful nation than we but now with a simple "tick" in the right box our dear land can be returned to us ... even those of us who for whatever reason are not home at this great historical moment.
For me, at least, the other five questions are merely superficial.
I never left Scotland, I just wandered doon the road. Should I come back up the road I hope to come back to a Scotland which the Roman's decided to leave well enough alone. tongue.gif

I am also born and bred Glasgow and proud to tell anyone that asks so think you put my perspective on the referendum into the forefront for me, thanks.
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ElliotShinwell
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:16pm
Post #22


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QUOTE (RedSkywalker @ 13th Sep 2014, 12:32pm) *
The problem I have with the whole thing is that the question being asked "should Scotland be an independent country" is irrelevant to reality.

Is the UK an independent country? NO it's not because an independent country controls its own borders which the UK is not allowed to by the EU. Does the UK control its own currency? NO because its tied to the EU and has to comply with EU budgetary requirements. Does it control the fishing rights within its waters - NO; the EU does! Does it have free access to world trade - NO it has to comply with EU tariff arrangements - the UK is deep in thrall to the EU and does not meet any definition of "independent" you want to apply.

If there is a YES vote all that will happen is we will continue to be governed by the EU as now!

Had big Eck offered us the choice of an in\out EU vote if we voted YES I'd be all for true independence but he has his eyes firmly on the EU trough and is determined to get his snout in there. So you lot vote however you want - in the end it makes no difference at all!

I think you are absolutely correct, The UK as a whole should remove itself from the EU Then we can be a truly independent nation.
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carmella
post 13th Sep 2014, 02:29pm
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I have agreed with Red too, but over on the Scottish Independence thread.

As long as we are in the EU there is no independence, for me independence means being totally independent of another country's rules and regulations imposed upon us.


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Silence is a true friend who never betrays.

Confucius - Chinese Philosopher - [551bc-479bc]
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Hutchieclan
post 13th Sep 2014, 03:03pm
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I have already voted NO by postal vote.

I have listened to all the debates, read the white paper and came to the following conclusion.

lThe SNP have one reason for existence, to gain independence for the Scottish nation. Why then, in a white paper of 150 pages, did they only devote one page of figures outlining the financial case for independence. Could it be that they were unprepared, or is it that even they cannot come up with a reasonable business case for separation? The few figures they did produce were based on oil revenues at an inflated price per barrel. No real explanation was given on how Scotland would raise revenues to fund the Health Service, free university tuition, pensions etc. The only fiscal policy they have outlined is a reduction in business tax.

Alex Salmond asks us to trust him. He states that a vote for Yes is the only way we can ensure that we get a government we elect. This from the man who joined forces with the Tories and consigned Scotland to 18 years of Thatcherism. If he cared about the "Sovereign Will of the Scottish People" he would have supported the party that the vast majority of Scots voted for in that election, i.e. the Labour Party. Instead he chose to support the party which best suited his interests.

How can we trust the future of our nation to such a man?

The yes campaign has degenerated to bullying tactics and asking people to vote with the heart,. rather than presenting a solid case to encourage voters to their view.If this is the best they can come up with, the proposition is fundamentally flawed.


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*Guest*
post 13th Sep 2014, 03:08pm
Post #25






Saor Alba!

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**Kenny Hill**
post 13th Sep 2014, 03:13pm
Post #26






I will vote YES. I have never been happy that we here in Scotland are dictated to by successive Tory AND Labour goverments who have no real grasp of the issues important to the Scottish people.

The more I see of Cameron..Clegg and Milliband scurrying around Scotland pleading and begging for us to vote no......the more I know I have made the correct decision.Have they no shame at all?

The three of them together could not make one decent leader of a country. It is little wonder the UK is in the state it is currently in.

I also think the bully boy tactics of the NO campaign is nothing short of evil......trying to scare the people of Scotland into thinking that if the YES vote were to win this referendum life as we know it in Scotland will end. If the No's do get the vote...look out for knighthoods being granted to the top men in Asda UK...Scottish Widows and Weir pumps for services rendered.

If things are Better Together...then why arent we "better" now? We have been "together" 300 years.

John Lewis tell us prices may go up....?....Memo to John Lewis....most of us cant afford to shop there anyway...so do your worst.

Cameron misses the point entirely......this is not some rash decisioning based on a love of our Scottish heritage and a wish to live in a tartan clad utopia.....it's case of gradually being ground down and dismissed by westminster on every issue important to the every day people of Scotland. It's a case of enough is enough. Bob Dylan said it best....When you got nuthin...You got nothin to lose.....and we are there now....we have "nuthin".....and the only thing a NO vote will bring us is more of the same. Enough is enough.
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The Bankie
post 13th Sep 2014, 03:20pm
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OK
Let’s get the pub quiz out of the way and see what kind of replies I can generate.

First the background.
I am Scottish, no doubt, no If or but, although since I was born in Old Kilpatrick district on March 17th I MIGHT just get dual nationality.
At the age of 15 I joined the Royal Navy and set off on my grand tour. At the age of 20 I married a Yorkshire girl and on my discharge from the R.N. we settled in Bradford as we were guaranteed a council house there and there was plenty of work.
Had there been any work in Scotland it would have been the choice for both of us. Over the years family developments mean that resettlement would be difficult but not out of the question.

So on to the questions:-
1) Single most important issue?
Why are the Westminster politicians so opposed to Scottish independence if we are such a lame duck as the No campaign claim us to be. Have you EVER heard of a politician doing something for altruistic reasons? Ask the locals round here, many are jealous of the opportunity Scotland has and some even think independence should start at the southernmost border of Yorkshire. They are even willing to take Lancashire with them.
2) Have I been swayed by one side?
No! Both sides are populated by raging political bigots trying to arrange things to their advantage. The only hope we have is that if there is a yes vote the SNP disintegrates into various parties to reflect the various views of the voters.
3) Have I been impressed by any politician?
Only negatively. See above.
Has the media reporting been fair?
4) By swallowing ALL the propaganda and hysterically and rabidly regurgitating it as “news” it has managed to cover everything from Westminster threats to alien abduction without saying ANYTHING informative. So yes it has been fair.
5) Will it have any long term affects on how we live?
Of course it will! But we will need to wait till about 2024 to see what they were.
6) Do I just want it to be over?
7) Yes, Yes! YES! Regardless of the outcome it will be the will of the people and should be adhered to. Although in the case of a no vote Salmond and Co will start making plans for the 2024 independence campaign.

Westminster really has no idea that this will not go away. The devolution vote came back and bit them and has led to this situation and in the event of a no vote the same will happen again, and again and again. Anyway I see it as giving England their independence.

Probably not how you see it but the opinions asked for were mine and you are free to examine them and judge them on how you see their merits. Please note: no scare or bullying tactics in the entire message.

Regards
The Bankie



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Living in exile in West Yorkshire
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john.mcn
post 13th Sep 2014, 03:32pm
Post #28


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QUOTE (Hutchieclan @ 13th Sep 2014, 03:20pm) *
Alex Salmond asks us to trust him. He states that a vote for Yes is the only way we can ensure that we get a government we elect. This from the man who joined forces with the Tories and consigned Scotland to 18 years of Thatcherism. If he cared about the "Sovereign Will of the Scottish People" he would have supported the party that the vast majority of Scots voted for in that election, i.e. the Labour Party. Instead he chose to support the party which best suited his interests.

How can we trust the future of our nation to such a man?

Alex salmond became an MP in 1985, that is some years after Thatcher was voted into power. As for the vote of no confidence in 1979 i would recommend actually reading up on it because frankly it's getting tiresome the amount of ignorance around this issue.
The Tories were voted in democratically, largely by those people elsewhere in the UK that you think we should be in a political union with.
Through the years i have heard Labour supporters pile hatred and all sorts on Salmond, my response to them was you hate him simply because he is bloody good at what he does and that he is not a member of the Labour party...shuts them right up because it's true.

PS i dont trust the future of the nation to him, i trust the future of the Nation to the people here voting..


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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*Guest*
post 13th Sep 2014, 04:04pm
Post #29






Being of Scottish origin, I will be extremely saddened if Salmond gets his wishes and Scotland vote for independence.
As has been mentioned in previous posts, anyone that disagrees with Salmond is being shouted down, and in some cases facing abuse or vandalism of their property, which is a sad state of affairs, and, whoever wins, almost half the nation will lose, which sort of defeats Salmond's argument that Scots don't get the government that they voted for!
Whichever way it goes, almost half of Scotland will have voted the other way, based on current polls!!!
I have watched the debates (more like shouting matches) with interest, and have yet to hear the Plan A and Plan B monetary policies that Alex Salmond keeps referring to, has anyone else got a clue?
In most of the interviews and debates, he has been making snide and sarcastic comments whilst his opponent has been trying to answer his questions, and not actually allowing those responses to be heard, and also inferring that anyone that disagrees with him is "anti-Scottish".
The man is a disgrace, and if he gets his way, I'm afraid that Scotland will be in big trouble.
He wants independence from England, but will happily use the pound, which is controlled by, let me think, er, The Bank of England!
That means quite simply that England will still have total control over Scotland's money.
If, however, he applies for, and by some miracle gains. mem,bership of the EU, then Scotland will not be independent, as Brussels will control not only the financial affairs of Scotland, but also it's laws and employment/human rights regulations.
He talks in one moment about creating jobs for the 8,000 or so on the Clyde submarine base, and in the next, he is saying that he is going to encourage economic immigration by basically throwing open the border to foreigners.
Now, forgive me if I sound stupid, but surely it would be a better option to create and fill those jobs from within the Scottish population first, or, as in other parts of Europe, the migrants will get the jobs as they are more prepared to work on the absolute minimum wage?
If he does open the door to increased immigration, then that would be contrary to existing plans for the UK, and would require some kind of border control between Scotland and England, or they will simply all come in via the open back door!
I really hope that people see sense and forget their Bravehearts and listen to their Brave Heads!
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*Guest*
post 13th Sep 2014, 04:10pm
Post #30






QUOTE
As for the vote of no confidence in 1979 i would recommend actually reading up on it because frankly it's getting tiresome the amount of ignorance around this issue.

I certainly feel no need to read up on the circumstances leading up to the election of Margaret Thatcher in 1979 as I am well aware of them, having been a taxpayer and a voter in Scotland at the time.

The vote of no confidence in Callaghan's Labour Government was a cynical betrayal of the Scottish working class by the Nationalists in their ruthless and single-minded pursuit of their political ambition. No Nationalist attempt to rewrite history can change or even sanitise that plain fact.
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