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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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angel
post 31st May 2013, 05:39pm
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Tell you what for an undecided this thread puts up a good case for yes. Maybe I'm jist a fearty Cat
Either way we have to vote apathy is not an option.
.........................

You are so right Cat , indeed , apathy is not an option ,
when I talk with my friends and family member in Scotland , they most definately give this referendum a lot of thought and consideration and have come up with the opinion , that , everyone is listening too or reading the same
political hype , because that is what politics' is all about .
So Cats do'nt be too influenced , by what you read on this board , regarding this referendum . and don't let those post's influence your vote or make you feel bad .
A , no vote on anyone's part does not make you or they a big fearty ,
remember this when you decide to vote .

Do what you believe is better for your country .









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wee davy
post 31st May 2013, 06:03pm
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Your last sentence is so accurate, angel.

Its about what Scotland decides.

Not old political/historical divides.

Board members in the mass majority. simply, and consistently bat back the lies, scaremongering, and outright intimidation which originates from Westminster (and other vested interests).

You will note, CAT, wherever you go on here, NO voters have been time and time again been asked to join in the debate. They have made they're choice to keep Scotland firmly at the bottom of the wealth ladder, within a UK, dedicated to keeping the South East of England, prosperous.

If you don't believe me, believe my brother (who lives and worked in Kent)
He freely admits, and offers no argument for the way things are, and in no way will change, following a NO vote. (he agrees - and was a former 'part of the Establishment)

Be Brave. Let your heart rule your head. Do it for Love!

(My current avatar, really does remind me of me!! lol)


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john.mcn
post 31st May 2013, 06:05pm
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QUOTE (CAT @ 31st May 2013, 02:37pm) *
Tell you what for an undecided this thread puts up a good case for yes. Maybe I'm jist a fearty Cat laugh.gif
Either way we have to vote apathy is not an option.



Some on this board would try to paint a terrible picture of post independent Scotland, some of those dont even live here but still want a say in how WE are governed.
I'm not going to try to persuade you how to vote, all i ask of anyone who lives here and has the vote is to make an informed decision The YES camp here will post links and info that will obviously show that Scotland gets the shitty end of the stick a lot of times, the NO camp will post....... errr, have they posted ? wink.gif if you've read through the thread/s then you could look further into any info anyone has posted, dont take my/jagz/bilbo/wee davys and the others words for it, check it out yourself. Make an informed decision come the day and do it unafraid of the consequences.


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JAGZ1876
post 31st May 2013, 06:24pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 31st May 2013, 05:47pm) *
Do what you believe is better for your country .


Absolutly spot on, good advice Angel thumbup.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 31st May 2013, 06:35pm
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QUOTE (wee davy @ 31st May 2013, 06:11pm) *
Be Brave. Let your heart rule your head. Do it for Love!

(My current avatar, really does remind me of me!! lol)


On the contrary wee davy, don't let your heart rule your head, the figures show that Scotland will be better off with self determination, it really is a no brainer, it's the fear of losing the old Empire that's tugging at the unionists heartstrings, but the sun has long set on the Empire, time to move on.

Really...........You look like Lord Kitchener?
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JAGZ1876
post 31st May 2013, 06:43pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 31st May 2013, 06:13pm) *
if you've read through the thread/s then you could look further into any info anyone has posted, dont take my/jagz/bilbo/wee davys and the others words for it, check it out yourself. Make an informed decision come the day and do it unafraid of the consequences.


John's right Cat, the truth is out there, yes read other peoples views and opinions, but do your own research as well, the internet is a wonderful tool to use to weigh up the pro's and con's to reach your own decision.

I won't tell you to vote YES next year Cat......You deside thumbup.gif
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wee davy
post 31st May 2013, 07:11pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 31st May 2013, 06:43pm) *
On the contrary wee davy, don't let your heart rule your head, the figures show that Scotland will be better off with self determination, it really is a no brainer, it's the fear of losing the old Empire that's tugging at the unionists heartstrings, but the sun has long set on the Empire, time to move on.

Really...........You look like Lord Kitchener?


Sometimes people (CAT may be one) who struggle with decisions maybe based upon gut instinct.
All I'm saying is ... listen to your heart. It might just be right. We spout a lot of information, but it is OK to feel patriotic/nationalistic/tribal whatever you want to call it.

When I was younger, jagz LOL


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Jim D
post 1st Jun 2013, 09:13am
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Like most people in Scotland, i am undecided at this time. I want truth from politicians - a tough ask!

I am selfish in that I want to know how much independence will cost me. Like many other people, I have paid taxes since I was 16. Since retiring from my career I am fortunate to have a pension but also have another job, as I have 2 sons who are trying their best to get a foothold on a career.

I want to know how much more I will be asked to pay. I do not want a reduced standard of living.

I am not alone in this.


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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit - NO man is at all hours wise.
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JAGZ1876
post 1st Jun 2013, 10:41am
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QUOTE (Jim D @ 1st Jun 2013, 09:21am) *
Like most people in Scotland, i am undecided at this time. I want truth from politicians - a tough ask!

I am selfish in that I want to know how much independence will cost me. Like many other people, I have paid taxes since I was 16. Since retiring from my career I am fortunate to have a pension but also have another job, as I have 2 sons who are trying their best to get a foothold on a career.

I want to know how much more I will be asked to pay. I do not want a reduced standard of living.

I am not alone in this.


I can understand your concerns Jim D, if you are asking will you be paying more in income tax than the rUK the answer would most certainly be no, if you want a definite answer as to what the tax rate will be in 2016 then you are asking an impossible question unless you know someone with a crystal ball, if you don't believe me then ask George Osborne what the tax rate will be in 2016.

If you mean a reduced state pension then the answer is once again no, pensioners in Scotland will have at least the same if not better pension than their rUK counterparts.

As for your own personal pension this will remain unaffected as these matters are decided by international law and international treaties, which the UK has already signed up to.

It is more than likely that your pension is with a Scottish based company, but even if it isn't your covered by the above paragraph.

All these questions you asked were answered in detail in a White Paper published by the Scottish Government in 2009, but as i was telling Cat yesterday you have to do a bit of research as the unionist media tries to bury any information that shows independence in a good light.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/293639/0090721.pdf

As for providing a career for your sons, ask yourself what opportunities has Westminster provided for the youth of Scotland over the last 30 years?

If you think that Scotland being independent and in charge of our own affairs is not normal and that we need to constanly produce proof that we are capable of doing what every other normal country takes for granted on a daily basis, then maintaining this extraordinary, indeed surreal, state of the UK ought to require an extraordinary standard of proof, yet the positive case for the Union is most notable for its absence.

Remember Jim D, a NO vote next year will most definitely see your standard of living reduced when George Osborne's promise of a decade of austerity kick's in.

For your own selfish sake Jim and more importantly for the sake of your son's.

Vote YES next year.
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Isobel
post 1st Jun 2013, 07:03pm
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I have lived in Canada for over 40 years. I paid into my British pension plan,so I do have a small pension from Britain.Can you tell me how that might affect my pension. Also having been born in Scotland do I have the right to a vote.If I did it would definitely be a big YES.
I dont think things could be any worse for the working man and woman in Scotland.My husband is English and he even says the Scots have always been treated as second class citizens as far as Westminster was concerned.
PLEASE PLEASE VOTE YES.Have the guts to do it.


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From Glasgow now in Canada
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wee davy
post 1st Jun 2013, 08:43pm
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It really depends on who pays your pension,Isobel, Whether your talking about a state one, civil, or private.
The state and civil one's ought to remain 'as was' for the likes of yourself.
Some companies will probably 'try it on', and change how it is calculated. It would still be a very small change. Just my theory, for what its worth.I'm sorry to say we expats dont get a vote (I suspect it would be an overwhelming YES, if they had allowed us).
My spies are telling me the campaign is doing well - but remember - walls have ears lol


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angel
post 2nd Jun 2013, 02:36am
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From this Expats opinion , voting on this referendon has
nothing to do with gutlessness or , scaredy cat'isim ' huh.gif
IT HAS SIMPLY TO DO WITH .." AM I SATISFIED WITH THE STATIS QUO OR NO " and will living in Scotland {as a separate country }'" May I add , " in every sense of the word ".. be better than being part of the UK. and for those who have a vote, , it is one Helluva decison 'Yes Or No." and most definately nothing to do with gutlessness .

If I lived in Scotland at this time , I honestly am not to sure
as to how I would vote , but I most definately take umbridge at
one or two members , who try to shove on these boards , their opinions down the throat's of other members .
We all read the same Political trype , and this , through experience in my life,
gives the voter the right to vote yes or no 'in this referendom , without being called a scaredy cat or other words to the same effect ,because they do not agree with your politics sounds like democracy is on it's way out on this topic .















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angel
post 2nd Jun 2013, 07:32am
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but I most definately take umbridge

should be umbradge .




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john.mcn
post 2nd Jun 2013, 09:31am
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How can someone shove their opinions down other peoples throat on a forum, if people dont like the independance discussion they are perfectly free not to view it, for the ones that are interested and want to expand their knowledge they can check out the opinions backed up by exterior links, it's unfortunate that the NO voters dont want to engage in dialogue, and put across their views and facts but that is hardly the fault of the YES voters.

The internet is the only place where a proper unbiased debate can take place, not being a resident here for however many decades you wont have a scooby about the hold the Unionists have on the Scottish media, many people have simply given up on it because it was perfectly clear(to me anyway) they became nothing more than a certain political parties mouthpiece.

A gentle ribbing and jocular name calling is hardly the end of democracy, it was even cat herself who said fearty cat rolleyes.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 2nd Jun 2013, 10:14am
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QUOTE (angel @ 2nd Jun 2013, 02:44am) *
IT HAS SIMPLY TO DO WITH .." AM I SATISFIED WITH THE STATIS QUO OR NO "

but I most definately take umbridge at one or two members , who try to shove on these boards , their opinions down the throat's of other members .

We all read the same Political trype , and this , through experience in my life,
gives the voter the right to vote yes or no 'in this referendom , without being called a scaredy cat or other words to the same effect ,because they do not agree with your politics sounds like democracy is on it's way out on this topic .


As always it's good to read what the ex pats are thinking when it comes to the most important decision the people of Scotland have ever had to make.

I'm afraid there is a bit more to it than a simple "am i satisfied with the status quo or not", Angel

I'm not the biggest fan of opinion polls Angel, but they consistently return figures that show that the majority of the people do not favour the status quo, but not all of them favour independence either, the unionists tried to introduce Devo Max into the equation with hint's that a NO vote would mean that Westminster "May" grant more powers to Holyrood, but only if we vote NO first (Jam Tomorrow) the people of Scotland however remembered (as i'm sure you do too Angel) the promise of another Tory on eve of the 1979 Devolution referendum when the former Prime Minister Sir Alex Douglas Home urged Scots to vote NO, Sir Alec pledged that a future Conservative government would offer Scotland "something better".

However the "Something better" turned out to be Margaret Thatcher.
Mrs Thatcher's government refused to countenance any form of Scottish self-government, and subjected the country to almost 2 decades of monetarist policies which saw a massive rise in unemployment and the virtual destruction of Scottish industry, combined with unprecedented centralisation of power in Westminster.

I don't know who the one or two members are who you "take umbrage with" Angel but i have seen people debating on here and having heated arguments, but i can't say i have seen anyone trying to force their opinions down anyone's throat.

I don't know of anybody that has been called a scaredy cat, in fact the only person i saw use that remark was Cat a day or two ago when she was referring to herself.

As for democracy being on the way out, those of us on here who are campaigning for a YES vote for the very purpose of returning democracy to the people of Scotland, to give us the power to elect the government that we want, not who the English electorate want.

As for reading the same "Political Tripe", being so far away you are under the mistaken belief that both sides in this debate are given equal news time to get their points across, this i can assure you is wrong Angel.

The vast majority of the media is owned or controlled from England, so they are obviously going to push the unionist view, it is very hard to find a pro independence story, even when the Scottish government announces a jobs or investment increase the media find ways to turn it around as a bad thing eg new oil field discoveries are somehow bad, " Warning, oil is very volatile", another example is unionist politicians or experts! are given free rein to give out not only false information but downright lies without being asked to produce a single shred of evidence, whereas on the other hand any politician or member of the YES campaign is constantly interrupted and has to provide evidence for every statement given.

That is one of the reasons i urge undecided voters to do their own research before making their minds up.

I know you will be unaware of some of this Angel being so far away, but boards like these are very good at trying to even the playing field that like the union, is very one sided.

Take care Angel
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