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> Oh Memories That Bless & Burn, Unpalatable, but they're mine
nell
post 24th Nov 2003, 12:13pm
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Hello Melody
I am with you on this one, whilst there is a perceptioin amongst "middle class" people that there is no class distinction these days, I personally think that the class system is alive and well in the poorer areas of all cities of the UK. I believe now that as opposed to a working class we now have an underclass of people who live in the worst housing, go to the worst schools and if they do make it out, it is usually through extremely hard work. I still think there is not a level playing field for all children born in the country and the more money you have the easier it is to get a good education and a good job. I think the demise of the apprenticeship scheme by Margaret Thatcher has a lot to answer for, I know they are beginning again now, but for about 20 years young men leaving school couldn't get an apprenticeship or at least found it extremely difficults to get one, consequently there is now a shortage of artisans and a plethora of kids who have gone to college to learn mickey mouse subjects like media studies and stuff like that, not everyone is academic and I feel that there should be more emphasis in schools to cater for the non-academic student. We might talk a good classless society but in reality the classes still exist, in my humble opinion.
Best Wishes
helen


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Best Wishes
Nell
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andypisces
post 24th Nov 2003, 04:02pm
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Speaking of middle class i recall a course i took in economics.The instructor asked us all to consider if we were upper middle or lower class.All but on considered themselves middle class. the instrucor then referred us to someone who was earning 2million dollars a year,at that time.His question then was, based on this i take it all you middle class folk are earning1million. Needless to say none of us fell in that category. since that time i have always qualified the statement with financially i am lower class but on a personal and humane basis then i am upper class......andra
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Marion Dougan
post 24th Nov 2003, 06:25pm
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Aye, yer right Darlin. am wie you tongue.gif


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Lang may yer Lum reek!!!
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Marg
post 24th Nov 2003, 06:35pm
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Is there really a lower , middle and upper class these days ,I see very poor, poor and not so poor in each class depending on income. I don't like these terms of class ,I've worked most of my life to make a better life and don't even think oh "What class am I in".even in the schools today here anyway the students themselves look at their fellow classmates by what and who the parents are where as when I was in school we never even thought about those things.


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nell
post 24th Nov 2003, 07:10pm
Post #35

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Marq
Yes I think that "New World" countries like the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are what we would call classless societies, I have never been to any of these places, therefore, am unable to comment, however, in Britain today, whilst the Third Estate, the Politicians and the Establishment, tell us that Britain is classless, I don't think it is, we have a Royal Family, for goodness sake, how can we call ourselves classless when we have this Institution which is the pinnacle of the Class System. I agree, perhaps in the more cosmopolitan areas of Britain where the Cafe Society hang out, it may seem classless, but there are cities in Britain where there is a definate underclass, who are thwarted at every turn, when trying to better themselves.
Best Wishes
helen


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Nell
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Melody
post 24th Nov 2003, 07:31pm
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Yes nell, and a 'House of Lords' wonder if they are 'middle class' the same as the rest of the population. Maybe they could swap lives with some of us just to make sure we are all the same! laugh.gif
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thebardau
post 24th Nov 2003, 11:15pm
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I appreciate the way in which the original thread has developed - from the "good"/bad old days to the present time. I thank all you posters for your marvellous input here. As for "class distintion", it is still a fact of life - even in Australia, nell, however much Oz declares itself a classless society. Sydney's Mt. Druitt teenagers are still discriminated against in the job market, as illegal as this may be nowadays - & on the old GGBB, I persisted in asking members resident in Glasgow, questions on whether Shettleston youth were similarly discriminated against in today's times. [My question still remains unanswered.]

One thing has shone through gloriously in this thread - the fact that family love is what held the poorer folk of yesteryear together, & enabled them to laugh through their struggles of those dark days. However, no-one made reply to my other remark/question in one of my early posts on this thread. What of those ragged youngsters who lacked the fabric of loving family bonds, what of the transient kids who were only temporarily in your school & neighbourhood? and I quote:-

"Maybe some of you can recall children who were the "odd one out", who looked as if nobody owned them, or maybe you don't remember them because they weren't at your school long - they just disappeared, the result of another "moonlight flit". Or maybe you can vaguely remember the unpopular child who always smelt of urine, there being a bed-wetter in the family."

Some of these are/were the children still imprinted in my memory, so I will not let you forget them either. Wherever you are, little Belle, Grace & Hughie, I hope you made it on your own, barefoot & ragged as you were. And RIP little Senga, may you be in a better place than you were then.
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nks1955
post 25th Nov 2003, 01:04am
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Guess I was more fortunate than some, we were allocated new housing that had been built for the police and firemen after the blitz of the Redann and Kilmun Street, we had indoor plumbing two bedrooms living room and kitchen. But yes the old army coat , or anybody's coat was used as blankets. There were four kids and you were glad of the body heat. I still have the marks from the chilblains and they weren't from lack of sturdy shoes (we were well supplied by American relatives. as a few have noted, we were poor too, but have rich memories. My mother worked as a domestic in Bearsden, I went with her a few times, my dream was a house like the ones in Bearsden, I don't think I would have realized that dream had I stayed in Maryhill. I realized it here in America. The education I got in Scotland has served me well. Education is the first step of the ladder that gets you out of the slums or ghettos of this world. I thank all my teachers, even the one that gave me the belt. (Only got it once, hurt like heck, made sure I never got it again). Margarine and sugar sandwiches were a staple in our house too.
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nell
post 25th Nov 2003, 12:00pm
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Hello thebardu
I was one of those outsiders, my Mammy used to keep me off school all the time and we were always moonlight flittin from one single end to another, I left school with no qualifications, as I was hardly ever there, I didn't make any lasting friends from school for the same reason. When I left Glasgow for London as a hippy, I had no idea what the future might hold for me, I never even thought of it, however I have now educated myself and have a decent job, so you can get out of it, but its not easy, it is much easier to give all children a good education in the first place, and there should be no discrimination in education, it should be the same standard for all, and in that way level the playing field and making it easier for less fortunate folk to make a decent life for themselves. When I think of the 50's I always think it was a poor time for my family, my Mammy was on her own a divorcee, we were the only children in the street who's Dad didn't live with them. However, my "hard times" in the 50's pale into insignificence compared to the hard times of the 30's I wasnt there, but I have read enough and listened to enough memories of those times to realise that life, even in the 50's was vastly improved from the 30's, and now even more, however, we still have sink estates where children live, grow up and die, never having experienced the richness of life, they never get out of it.
We need a fairer way of distributing wealth, and I dont profess to know the answer, but I feel we must do it somehow, and not just within our own society, but globally, or I fear we will see mass migration from the poorer countries of people trying to get a piece of the dream, (and who can blame them) we need to make it so they can get a piece of the dream without leaving their own country. Capitalism creates massive divides between the rich and poor, both locally and globally. Now I don't know what system we need, but I do know that if we don't temper capitalism it will implode, and then Lord help us all.
Best Wishes
helen


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iancameron
post 26th Nov 2003, 12:08pm
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After reading lots of mail as to what class we are, I,v come to the conclusion that me and my family are 1st Class.
If we have family or friends that are willing to help each other through a crisis then we wil never be bothered about class.
I have been through the stages of living in houses without toilets, cadging a pair of shoes because mine had seen better days, borrowed my aunties Co-op book to get a pair of trousers, borrowed money to get the rent man of my back, and if need be would do the same again if need be.When I read the posts its quite clear that we all have done the same thing, were brought up the same way with values, those values being, never forget your friends, never forget your upbringing, remember the hard times but go on and ensure that we look after each other in the hope that we wont have to beg or borrow again.
Its great to hear of so many people like myself on this site, who if you think about it have all improved themselves from the days of the tennament. So well done to all you first class people.
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Melody
post 26th Nov 2003, 05:37pm
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I think you've just summed it up there Ian, in that post lies the essence of Glasgow.
Ed. I can't speak for Shettleston about those forgotten children you speak of, however there are plenty like that today and sadly a lot end up in 'care' often making things worse for them.
What a world we leave to the poor weans who struggle through this life with no guidance or real love.
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Kayleigh
post 27th Nov 2003, 01:03pm
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Ah agree wae Melody Ian, ah liked yer post, but there's nae getting away fae it, we have still goat a terrible class snobbery these days. If the weans don't go tae school wae aw the right designer gear, they get a right ribbing at school and made to feel inferior, why? because some people who huv a much higher standard o' living, still look doon oan folks wae nothing, an the parents ur the wans tae blame. There is still a stigma oan people that live oan a council estate, they're looked doon upon, single famillies are part o' the class distinction anaw, too mony folk still judge ye fur whit ye huv an no fur who ye ur as a person. At the end o' the day material things an money cannae gie ye the love o' a warm happy faimily. Ah struggled bringin ma two wee cherubs up masel, ah've went withoot a coat oan ma back so ah cud by the weans wan each instead, lived oan beans an toast so they hud a proper meal, but it wis aw worthwhile, an ah've brought ma weans up tae respect everybody nae matter whit their status in life is, aye folks class distinction is still alive an kicking.
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Melody
post 27th Nov 2003, 06:16pm
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Do you know what Kayleigh, that was such a lovely post I for one congratulate you on the best achievement ever, to bring up your children with such a wonderful example of a loving mother.
Well done to you doing that on your own it must be the hardest thing ever. smile.gif
At least we know that the folk who judge a book by the cover are missing out so much in life!....and they're no too clever!!
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annie laurie
post 28th Nov 2003, 05:31am
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QUOTE (Kayleigh @ 27th Nov 2003, 01:20 PM)
Ah agree wae Melody Ian, ah liked yer post, but there's nae getting away fae it, we have still goat a terrible class snobbery these days. If the weans don't go tae school wae aw the right designer gear, they get a right ribbing at school and made to feel inferior, why? because some people who huv a much higher standard o' living, still look doon oan folks wae nothing, an the parents ur the wans tae blame. There is still a stigma oan people that live oan a council estate, they're looked doon upon, single famillies are part o' the class distinction anaw, too mony folk still judge ye fur whit ye huv an no fur who ye ur as a person. At the end o' the day material things an money cannae gie ye the love o' a warm happy faimily. Ah struggled bringin ma two wee cherubs up masel, ah've went withoot a coat oan ma back so ah cud by the weans wan each instead, lived oan beans an toast so they hud a proper meal, but it wis aw worthwhile, an ah've brought ma weans up tae respect everybody nae matter whit their status in life is, aye folks class distinction is still alive an kicking.

Kayleigh
I agree with everything you said, there is still very much class differences to-day,
Well done, Iam sure you are all a Happy loving family, and all the money in the world cant buy that :lol: Here Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jimmyd
post 28th Nov 2003, 12:17pm
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The one thing Ed, about the disadvantaged children these days,is that there are many people working to,give them every opportunity to succeed.Some unfortunately fall through the net ,or have obstructionist parents,who do not accept the offers made to assist them.I have worked with many dedicated teachers, and social workers,and can assure you, a lot of the kids have been able to reach their potential.This is mainly due to these professionals, coming from working class backgrounds now.Forty years ago,they came mainly from priviliged backgrounds,and as such ,where so out of touch with the childrens enviromental,situation.They just could not empathise,with them.Well meaning,but not very real.

This post has been edited by jimmyd: 28th Nov 2003, 12:36pm


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" If during a lifetime ,you bring happiness and pleasure to just one person ,then your time on earth has been worthwhile indeed ! " Jimmyd
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