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> Old Firm Antics: Mountain Or Molehill?, Legitimate concern or gross over-reaction
GG
post 6th Mar 2011, 10:35pm
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Politicians have been out in force this week to uncompromisingly condemn the actions of players, management and supporters during the Old Firm Scottish Cup match last Wednesday night. The game ended with Celtic beating Rangers 1-0, while three Rangers players received red cards and there was a touchline bust-up involving Neil Lennon (Celtic manager) and Ally McCoist (Rangers coach).

Politicians have variously described the scenes during the match as repugnant, disgraceful, thuggish and abhorrent. Police chiefs have complained about the soaring cost of the fixtures and called for alcohol bans and matches to be played behind closed doors. Campaigners blame on-field confrontations between players for increasing domestic and street violence in the west of Scotland long after an Old Firm game ends.

However, supporters and football enthusiasts have described the controversies as minor incidents felled by passion for the game, describing the claims of politicians, police and vested-interest groups as being a gross overreaction.

As reported in the Scotland and Sunday today, one leading expert on football disorder, Dr Clifford Stott, described the confrontation between the coaching staff as a "minor spat" and claimed the problems generated by the Old Firm clashes were "relatively low". Dr Clifford said:

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"You need to keep a sense of proportion about what is going on here. What we are talking about here is a minor spat between a manger and a coach. The issue here isn't that serious.

Yes, of course, the actions of managers and players can be inflammatory, but it is not necessarily going to lead to disorder. I welcome the calls for players and managers to avoid confrontations, but they are part and parcel of the game.

We have to recognise that if games didn't have this edge they wouldn't be the flagship events they need to be. That's why people like them, that's why people engage with them, that's why they are exciting and meaningful."

Glasgow SNP MSP Anne McLaughlin has tabled a motion in Holyrood condemning the violence following the match. Ms McLaughlin said:

QUOTE
"The images of grown men tearing each other apart over a football match is abhorrent to watch. This is not the kind of Glasgow that I want the world to see when they come here for the Commonwealth Games [in 2014]."


Old Firm match highlights, 2nd March 2011

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benny
post 6th Mar 2011, 11:00pm
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Ah'm no a fitba fan - ah couldnae care less if they closed aw the stadiums in Scotland - but when ah visit friends who are fitba fans, ah'm sometimes forced tae watch if there's a big game oan. Ah saw the game in question, an ah think, aye, it wis a disgrace tae see people who are supposedly sportsmen behavin the wye thae did.
At times ah didnae know whether ah wis watchin a fitba game or the Moscow State Circus wi aw the tumblin aboot frae the Celtic players, an naw, ah'm no a Rangers fan or any other kinda fan. The behaviour o the Rangers players wis, if anythin, worse - especially the baldie wan wi the white strip runnin doon the centre o his heid.
Then the spat - whitever it wis aboot - at the end of the game between the managerial staff topped aff the night's woeful behaviour. If these people were behavin like that in the street ootside, they wid get done fur breach of the peace , an ah don't see why it should be any different in a fitba park.


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Jupiter
post 6th Mar 2011, 11:49pm
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I do think they are making a mountain out of a molehill.What is there to be expected from an Old Firm cup tie except blood and thunder.Rangers started off on the back foot as underdogs with a weakened squad while Celtic were right up for it after their previous Old Firm win.
The game itself was no different from many previous ties.Whittaker was sent off for two yellow cards,some might say stupid tackles which wouldnt have raised an eyebrow in bye gone years.The other sending off was I believe again two yellows.El-Diouf is a loose cannon ,no two ways about it and easily wound up.Sent off after the final whistle.The track side rumpus could have got out of hand and I just wonder what McCoist whispered to Lennon to send him into orbit.
All in all a stushie now history but something has developed and it is puzzling me and its this.
What were the racist remarks allegedly made by Lennon?Who,in an area which is in the heart of the Celtic main stand,and the reports say it was members of the public,reported Lennon to the police ?Some Celtic fan offended by Lennon?
Time will tell,but Aye a mountain out of a molehill,a storm in a teacup.
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weeshuggie
post 7th Mar 2011, 12:22am
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No Jupiter, time has already told, hundreds of rangers bigots encouraged by some idiotic you tube post contacted the police demanding action. I have just discovered that 40% of Rangers supporters have deaf sisters who are absolutely crap at lip reading, must be Scottish education flaw. The whole farce has been created to deflect attention away from the thuggery of Rangers players. Diouf says in the Record that Lennon is no racist, however that won't stop the religiously bigoted, did I say religiously, religious, these morons couldn't find a religious arena wae a satnav that only located rosary beads and presbyterian bibles.
Mountain out a mole hill, yes in Lennon's case and no in Rangers case where their outrageous actions have been covered up by a smear and typical idiotic claim of racism.

Death threats, threats to his family, bullets in the post, all for having your team win a few games. The cry is that Lennon incited all this hatred. Paddy McCourt and Nial Mc Ginn were sent bullets too, their contribution to inciting hatred, they are Catholic and from Northern Ireland. Yes how the media change the facts.
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kennyjenkins
post 7th Mar 2011, 12:28am
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How about closing both teams down. This rubbish has gone on far too long. Maybe it's about time Glasgow grew up.
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Crewsy Fixer
post 7th Mar 2011, 01:40am
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A basic answer, to the basic question asked in the opening post. Glasgow is a powder keg always ready to be lit.

I remember seeing some sort of documentary about the troubles in NI, during its height, and the question being asked could it spread to Glasgow, the answer was that "combined wisdom ensured this wouldnt happen"

Quite scary, when I thought about that, Im for peace before war.

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TeeHeeHee
post 7th Mar 2011, 01:55am
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I worked for a short spell at Belfast Airport around '89 and was asked by a Scot, a Glasgow lad wearing a Union Flag lapel badge, if I was a Catholic or a Protestant. I told him I was neither the one nor the other. He told me that that answer wouldn't do in Belfast.
It's never been any different in Glasgow and the Old Firm teams even if the had 11 foreigners on each side, are a reflection of that. I grew up with a bunch of mates the majority of whom were Celtic supporters (I infamously stood with them behind the Celtic goal mouth at a new year game and almost paid for it with my life when John Grieg put away the only goal on the last minute)
My family had a lot of Men of Orange and my sister was in The Eastern Star.
There was also a Catholic side to the family.
Sport? What sport?


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Jupiter
post 7th Mar 2011, 02:18am
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weeshuggie,can you tell us what was supposedly lipread?
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Dunvegan
post 7th Mar 2011, 02:30am
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QUOTE (kennyjenkins @ 7th Mar 2011, 09:51am) *
How about closing both teams down. This rubbish has gone on far too long. Maybe it's about time Glasgow grew up.

Too much vested interest in fuelling the flames; another control module that has been used too divide and rule the Scottish working class.
"There is a plot between the Pope and Joseph Stalin to undermine our freedoms and our glorious Union" and a large proportion of Scots and Nothern Irish fell for it and still are.
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Scotsman
post 7th Mar 2011, 08:31am
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I can't believe the mileage these.... YES!.... minor incidents have been given. A couple of hard tackles which back in the seventies would have been shrugged off as run-o-the-mill and a couple of players got sent off. Then at the end of the game a brief exchange of words between passionate coaches - good on them - and a hot-head numpty with form taking his top off and throwing it to the crowd. It's the constant media replays and 'expert' opibion that is keeping this mince going.

That said, what was Walter Smith thinking about when he brought Diouf into the Scottish game? Even for a manager desperate for attacking talent it was a move that a veteran like him must have known would backfire eventually. An inauspicious end to his managerial career.
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*Guest*
post 7th Mar 2011, 08:32am
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QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 7th Mar 2011, 01:53am) *
Too much vested interest in fuelling the flames; another control module that has been used too divide and rule the Scottish working class.
"There is a plot between the Pope and Joseph Stalin to undermine our freedoms and our glorious Union" and a large proportion of Scots and Nothern Irish fell for it and still are.

Stalin was innocent and definitely Not Guilty. I don't know about the other guy though. tongue.gif
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rabatat
post 7th Mar 2011, 09:01am
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If there's a bandwagon coming along Salmond will jump on it – remember Braveheart?

This sums it up better than I can:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...rs-alex-salmond
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**Gordon**
post 7th Mar 2011, 09:45am
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Most football games have a gross overreaction. People need to remember its a game, and although it should be taken serious, it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
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**greta**
post 7th Mar 2011, 10:25am
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For goodness sake what an over reaction. This is an old firm game after all, if you didnt have this form of passion there would be no point in having the game at all. Its that (as the good Dr says) that gives this game the edge over all others.
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ionnsaigh
post 7th Mar 2011, 11:07am
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I thought it was great - highly exciting. I wonder what the defeated and dejected McCoist, said to the jubilant and buoyant Lennon ? Is our Ally a sectarian racist ? Lennon looked happy enough when he approached the disgruntled Glasgow Rangers (chief in waiting ) Lets face it, the gers have a disciplinary problem, as much as their fans - who sing those hate songs.


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